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Crap managers who keep getting jobs

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by foxinthebox2001 » 17 May 2019, 16:30

Getting interesting now Pulis is back on the shelf.
My predictions for the next round of appointments.
Brighton - Marco Bielsa (not crap)
Middlesbro - Chris Hughton (not crap)
Leeds - Tony Pulis (a match made in heaven)

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by blahblah » 17 May 2019, 18:38

I agree on the 1st, but his teams traditionally tire and fade at the end of seasons, and the last, obviously.

The 2nd is a matter of opinion and having a vaguely decent defence and Murray up top hardly merits him being "good"?

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by Zimmerman » 17 May 2019, 20:03

Getting Brighton up (and staying up) (twice) deserves some credence.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by blahblah » 17 May 2019, 20:26

Zimmerman wrote:
17 May 2019, 20:03
Getting Brighton up (and staying up) (twice) deserves some credence.
Totally, hence the middle ground. It is difficult to try to score while not conceding, and why Wolves have struggled vs bottom clubs as opposed to counter attacking...

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by forestfan » 18 May 2019, 09:58

Hughton is just one of many managers who don’t seem to have the ability to ride out a slump - but in this day and age you’re a miracle worker if you can do that.

I do think the old guard of British managers may have finally fallen from favour, though. Pulis failed to get Boro up, not sure he will get another job of significance for the time being. The Allardyce and Moyes cards remained unplayed in this year’s relegation and promotion battles. Hughes is still out of work, and for Pardew that almost goes without saying. There’s no real trend to who mid-ranking clubs are now appointing - old, young, British, foreign - but they are no longer reaching straight for the default options that won’t excite the supporters.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by Zimmerman » 18 May 2019, 11:10

I posted this elsewhere earlier today;

Brighton are the 6th highest net spenders over the last three seasons 😳

City £371m
Chelsea £275m
United £268m
Arsenal £142m
Everton £137m
Brighton £127m
Liverpool £93m
Wolves £91m
West Ham £82m
Palace £80m

11th biggest if only looking at spending.

Chelsea £546m
City £520m
Liverpool £384m
United £345m
Everton £326m :shock:
Arsenal £275m
Leicester £250m
West Ham £189m
Spurs £182m
Southampton £152m
Brighton £137m

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by forestfan » 18 May 2019, 11:25

Yeah, their transfer activity has been abysmal, but no idea how much control Hughton had over that.

It’s really hard to sign players as a recently promoted club - most promotions are won on system and team spirit as much as quality, and new players will disrupt those two factors. Also you’ve got more money than before so they will also be signings who break the wage structure and often be agent-driven. Fulham were the greatest example of dismantling a promoted side through expensive signings and then sinking without trace. Those who largely trust what they’ve got may fall short in terms of quality, or hang on for a season or two then fall apart when they try to refresh things.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by blahblah » 18 May 2019, 11:33

Yep, which puts Howe into some perspective?

Brighton only raised £10m? :shock:

I'm too hungover and lazy to Google etc, but there are some huge numbers there on Sales which I find a tad :shock: :shock: :shock:

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by murf » 18 May 2019, 11:34

Zimmerman wrote:
18 May 2019, 11:10
I posted this elsewhere earlier today;

Brighton are the 6th highest net spenders over the last three seasons 😳

City £371m
Chelsea £275m
United £268m
Arsenal £142m
Everton £137m
Brighton £127m
Liverpool £93m
Wolves £91m
West Ham £82m
Palace £80m

11th biggest if only looking at spending.

Chelsea £546m
City £520m
Liverpool £384m
United £345m
Everton £326m :shock:
Arsenal £275m
Leicester £250m
West Ham £189m
Spurs £182m
Southampton £152m
Brighton £137m
Brighton also not nurturing poachable talent, as can be seen from the numbers above indicating they only made £10m in sales in 3 years. Southampton must average that every month!

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by forestfan » 18 May 2019, 12:39

blahblah wrote:
18 May 2019, 11:33
Yep, which puts Howe into some perspective?
If Howe’s Bournemouth teams didn’t have such a poor defensive record and habit of getting thrashed when they’re off their game, I think he’d have landed a bigger job by now. That’s the one major question mark against him. But he does seem to have something about him in terms of not allowing the rot to set in over a long period of time, every time they are written off they come good again and still haven’t been dragged into a serious relegation battle.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by murf » 22 May 2019, 20:39

Sam Allarydce signs for Oxford United!


Ok, not Big Sam but his grandson who is described as an 'old school' centre half. Sound familiar?

If he starts appearing on this thread in about 25-30 years time just remember you heard it here first.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by Zimmerman » 22 May 2019, 20:51

Fair play to brighton for NOT going for one of the usual names off the merry go round. Good luck to them.

I suspect they will blink and he’ll be gone by October but at least they’re giving him a chance.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by Edmondson » 22 May 2019, 23:02

Has Brighton’s last 2 years spending been THAT abysmal? And is it that much of a surprise on their position in the net spend and overall spend tables?

They came up with 2 centre half’s, Dale Stephens in midfield and Murray who they probably didn’t think they’d have to rely on, as first teamers. Knockaert has shone in the championship but I’m sure there would have been doubts over what his output would be in PL.

So they needed a new side, and as mentioned as a newly promoted club, there is only so much in terms of level of player you can go for.

New keeper - Matt Ryan, gets rave reviews, Aussie international, good as they could get?

Pascal Gross - was recognised in first season as very decent, probably came into a fair few fantasy teams.

Davy Propper - Dutch international, again decent, as good as it could possibly get.

Bissouma - looks very good indeed

Balogun - unable to dislodge Dunk / Duffy but decent back up

It’s the Andone’s (actually think he looks ok), Locadia’s & Janhanwhateverhisnameis types that have failed to fire, but that’s pretty much par for the course when shopping for those attacking players in the lower level markets. Not sure what the answer is here, maybe try and get a young gun from Big 6 on loan, an out of favour experienced type on his way down, or the Dutch / French league types.

There was a cheap left back, Suttner who didn’t seem to play much, so replaced this season with a much better Brazilian.

So, not abysmal, just the attacking punts haven’t come off, but at least have added some numbers to the squad.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by forestfan » 23 May 2019, 07:50

Most of your transfer spend is going to go on attacking players, and when they don’t come off you have major problems. Too many teams take wild gambles.

Fair enough the keeper’s been decent (and somehow manages to combine the job with being QB for the Atlanta Falcons :wink: ) and Gross had a great first season but was held back by injuries this time. But if you can’t move on from a 35-year-old journeyman striker in two years then the goals will eventually dry up.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by Zimmerman » 26 May 2019, 08:45

Saw something earlier from Benteke supposedly saying Klopp is the best manager he has worked with.

As far as I can tell, he had a pre-season with/under him.

However, look at his reference points;

Lambert
Sherwood
Hodgson
Martinez
Rodgers
De Beour
Pardew
Allardyce

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by murf » 26 May 2019, 09:10

Zimmerman wrote:Saw something earlier from Benteke supposedly saying Klopp is the best manager he has worked with.

As far as I can tell, he had a pre-season with/under him.

However, look at his reference points;

Lambert
Sherwood
Hodgson
Martinez
Rodgers
De Beour
Pardew
Allardyce
Benteke spent one season at Anfield. Rodgers signed him but Klopp took over in the October and so managed him for about 7 months

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by Zimmerman » 26 May 2019, 09:12

Ahhh.... I’d forgotten that.

Fair enough.
But on my other point... his other bosses have largely been a roll call from this thread.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by murf » 26 May 2019, 09:22

Zimmerman wrote:Ahhh.... I’d forgotten that.

Fair enough.
But on my other point... his other bosses have largely been a roll call from this thread.
a rather impressive list indeed although some including Rodgers and Hodgson have had success and so are stretching the definition of crap but I can't imagine any big clubs wanting them ahead of Klopp.

I guess a lot of top flight 'journeymen' will have had a similar list. Maybe they could all meet up and play Crap Manager Bingo!

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by forestfan » 26 May 2019, 10:18

One of them is currently manager of the world number one national team...

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by Zimmerman » 26 May 2019, 15:51

Re Martinez - is that because of or despite?
Its definitely possible to balls it up and make a good squad underperform - but its always handy having some of the best players in the world at your disposal. In fairness, he wouldn't be one of the ones I would consider crap. I did say 'largely' rather than all of them.

not sure how much success the Hodge has had?
Hes had about 20 jobs and managed two UEFA Cup losing finalists. Granted, getting Fulham to the final undoubtedly deserves credit.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by blahblah » 26 May 2019, 15:55

Zimmerman wrote:
26 May 2019, 15:51
Re Martinez - is that because of or despite?
Its definitely possible to balls it up and make a good squad underperform - but its always handy having some of the best players in the world at your disposal. In fairness, he wouldn't be one of the ones I would consider crap. I did say 'largely' rather than all of them.

not sure how much success the Hodge has had?
Hes had about 20 jobs and managed two UEFA Cup losing finalists. Granted, getting Fulham to the final undoubtedly deserves credit.
Didn't Woy win stuff years ago?

Wobbie had Lulu firing better than his MU managers, and without lumping the ball up go him. Tbh his regression at MU is quite something....

These 2 aren't in the same league (of crap) as the usual suspects, imho, and are at least on a par with Howe.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by Zimmerman » 26 May 2019, 16:22

Not disagreeing... they’ve only been bundled in here because of my Benteke point and the other managers he got saddled with.

That said, Martinez was pretty fond of hoofing it up to Lukaku (despite the perception that he was a total football kind of guy). But maybe it was horses for courses (and good management). If you had a midfield of Gibson, Cleverley and a 64yo Barry... you’d bypass them too.

Re Woy, I think his success was winning the Norwegian second division or the Danish FA Cup kind of success. A trophy is a trophy I suppose.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by blahblah » 26 May 2019, 16:23

I was more on about Belgium tbh.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by Zimmerman » 26 May 2019, 16:24

Helps when you have Hazard and de Bruyne supplying you. I’d probably get 3 against San Marino with them two assisting me.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by blahblah » 26 May 2019, 16:28

Zimmerman wrote:
26 May 2019, 16:24
Helps when you have Hazard and de Bruyne supplying you. I’d probably get 3 against San Marino with them two assisting me.
Yep, in theory and as he should for MU - but is pants...

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by blahblah » 26 May 2019, 16:30

Will Southgate be on this list in time?

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by forestfan » 26 May 2019, 17:24

blahblah wrote:
26 May 2019, 16:30
Will Southgate be on this list in time?
He could quite possibly end up as the English Chris Coleman... no doubt club offers will come whenever his England spell comes to an end, but only one underwhelming spell at Boro on his CV so far, where he compared unfavourably to McClaren. He might take the wrong job when his stock is high, as per Coleman, or just prove he’s not really suited to club management. Come to think of it, how many ex-England managers have done anything of note at club level afterwards?

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by blahblah » 26 May 2019, 17:25

Robson did well?

But arguably, apart grom the other ex Ipswich manager, most should be on here :wink:

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by forestfan » 26 May 2019, 17:30

I suppose Wally did well at Twente initially, but everything he’s touched has turned to shit since.

Roy’s done a solid job at Palace, which is probably more than can be said for most of the others. Turnip had some success back at Watford, but Wolves and a Villa return were less successful.

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Re: Crap managers who keep getting jobs

Post by Zimmerman » 26 May 2019, 18:35

Has he?
They averaged 12th for the 4 seasons before he arrived. They are 10th for net spend over the last 3 years.

Roy has managed 11th and 12th placed finishes. That’s par for the course isn’t it?

Granted 2 seasons immediately before they were 15th and 14th. And this season they got their highest points in the last 6.

11th 45pts
10th 48pts
15th 42pts
14th 41pts
—— Roy ———
11th 44pts
12th 49pts

Given their starting point and their spending... I’d suggest he’s achieving the status quo for them (which in itself could of course be considered an achievement). Again, going off piste. I don’t think he’s crap (certainly not in the Sherwood bracket).

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