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2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps * final standings *

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SamD
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2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps * final standings *

Post by SamD »

The popular National Hunt competition begins on Saturday 14 November 2020.

How the game works
Players pick a stable of ten horses to represent them during the 2020-21 jumps season from 11am on November 14 until 11:59pm on April 24. It’s £5 or €5.50 entry fee per stable and you can enter here. There is a free-to-play version with a £/€5,000 top prize. Each player has one entry in the free-to-play game.

Prize
There is a £150,000 guaranteed prize pool.

The winners
Seventy per cent of the pool will go to the winner and 30 per cent will be divided from second to 100th place. The Tote has a zero takeout.

Monthly prizes
There are four monthly prizes from December to March, with £/€10,000 for the top player each month in the main league and £/€1,000 for the top player in the free-to-play league.

Scoring
Horses gain points as follows:
Grade 1 win = 25 points
Grade 2 win = 20 points
Grade 3 win = 15 points
Listed win = 12 points
Any other race = 10 points

Extra points
These are gained based on a payout of a £1 each-way bet with the Tote.

The 25 bonus races are worth an additional 25 points to the winner and 12 points to the second.
  • Betfair Chase Haydock November 21
    Ladbrokes Trophy (Handicap Chase) Newbury November 28
    Tingle Creek Chase Sandown December 5
    King George VI Chase Kempton December 26
    Welsh Grand National Handicap Chase Chepstow December 27
    Savills Chase Leopardstown December 28
    Irish Champion Hurdle Leopardstown February 6
    Irish Gold Cup Leopardstown February 7
    Betfair Handicap Hurdle Newbury February 13
    Arkle Trophy Chase Cheltenham March 16
    Champion Hurdle Cheltenham March 16
    Queen Mother Champion Chase Cheltenham March 17
    3m Grade 1 novice chase (formerly RSA) Cheltenham March 17
    Stayers’ Hurdle Cheltenham March 18
    Ryanair Chase Cheltenham March 18
    County Handicap Hurdle Cheltenham March 19
    Cheltenham Gold Cup Chase Cheltenham March 19
    Irish Grand National Handicap Chase Fairyhouse April 5
    Betway Bowl (Chase) Aintree April 8
    Aintree Hurdle Aintree April 8
    Melling Chase Aintree April 9
    Liverpool Stayers Hurdle Aintree April 10
    Grand National Handicap Chase Aintree April 10
    Scottish Grand National Handicap Chase Ayr April 17
    bet365 Gold Cup Handicap Chase Sandown April 24
Example
Al Boum Photo won the 2020 Gold Cup and received 25 points for a Grade 1 win, 25 points for a bonus race, 4.33 for his Tote win return and 1.80 points for his place return for a total of 56.13 points.


Deadline
The game opens for entries on November 2 at 9am and closes at 11am on November 14 at which point horses begin scoring.

Other features
Amending stables: players are able to enter until 11am on November 14. Players can edit their stable at any point during this period so there is no disadvantage in submitting a list early. In the event of a dead-heat for any place the player who entered earliest will take the higher position.

Mini leagues: these allow players to take on friends and colleagues.

Substitutions
There will be a transfer window between March 10-14, when two substitutions can be made to lists.

Terms
The Tote Ten to Follow is open only to entrants with a UK or Irish address and a verified Tote account. All players must be 18 or over.

To enter go to https://tote.co.uk/ten-to-follow/play/
Last edited by SamD on 26 Apr 2021, 18:35, edited 12 times in total.

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SamD
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League play

Post by SamD »

As before, am happy to create a syndicate if there's sufficient interest.
Please post in thread or send PM if you're considering playing.
Idea is for each person to submit a shortlist. Members will use these to select stables of ten.

Shall also set up general Fiso league to cater for the one free team available to each person.
Note deadline for final picks is 11 days away: Sat 14 Nov.

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game

Post by wahine »

Looking forward to it I am sure we can improve.

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game

Post by Ottershaw »

The game is now open to Irish residents for the first time in 6 years.

The prize pool is going to be a big one with the Irish now invited to the party.
Last edited by Ottershaw on 04 Nov 2020, 09:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game

Post by Ottershaw »

Nice posting SamD covered the basics well.

Thanks.

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game

Post by Ashers »

I’m interested

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SamD
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Jumps game

Post by SamD »

1. Currently, there's a handful of FISOns showing interest in joining a syndicate to tackle the Tote Jumps game. More welcome, of course: simply PM or post in thread by Wed 11 Nov for full details.

Basic format: each entrant stakes £20 to cover four stables and selects two lines of ten horses. So, for example, if four people join, the 16 stables will comprise eight (two each) from members while the remaining eight will be based on the most popular horses across syndicate picks. Any winnings - top 100 final position or monthly return - would be shared equally.

2. In any case, everyone is welcome to add their one free team to the Fiso Free Federation. League champion will earn a Fiso Mug: see 2019 & 2020 versions below. Please add stable-name to thread to receive PIN by PM.
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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game

Post by polarbear »

Picked my 10. Let me have the PIN Sam.

Thanks.

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game

Post by Muddy »

Topofthegame - ante post favourite for the Ladbrokes Trophy is out for the season.

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game

Post by wahine »

:shock: I put Vinndication in my list due that horse TOTG being unsound, that could be the race where the advantage could be gained - if you have the winner :?: :?: :?:

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game

Post by topspur »

Have a free team now so just need the pin. Happy to join the syndicate again. When do you want the suggestions ?

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game

Post by Ottershaw »

Send me the pin please.

I will be entering my free team OvertheLast

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Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game

Post by SamD »

Fiso Free Federation currently holds three stables:

Forever Changes, SamD
Minnie Milan's mates, topspur
Polarbear Express, polarbear

PIN has been sent to others who've requested it. Deadline is 11:00 GMT this Sat.

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game * deadline 11am Sat 14 Nov *

Post by trampie »

Send me the pin please

My free team is PATHETICO ATHLETICO.

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Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game

Post by SamD »

Around six FISOns to date have requested PIN to enter their free team in the Fiso Free Federation prize mini-league.

Please note
- syndicate member says Tote TtF site was misbehaving on Thurs evening; deadline is almost two days away: 11am on Sat
- around 50 horses have been added to Jumps game list since original 530 a week ago.

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game * deadline 11am Sat 14 Nov *

Post by Striker »

I entered five teams successfully and then the system failed, possibly due to overload?

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Tote TtF

Post by SamD »

Yes, a few issues on Friday afternoon and evening, eg screen froze sometimes when stable was due to be confirmed, meaning team had to be reinput.

But all Fiso syndicate lines have now been entered, as well as the free team.

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game * deadline 11am Sat 14 Nov *

Post by Yorkshire Exile »

i was doing 60 on behalf of another syndicate..... stables vanished - seems like back end processing very slow...

Happy to enter my freebie in fiso league

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps game * deadline 11am Sat 14 Nov *

Post by Muddy »

Hi Sam, Please can you send the Fiso PIN, can't find your e-mail with it on.

Team name is MUDAHIM FREE

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Under way

Post by SamD »

The Jumps contest began today with 37,952 entries and 6,693 free teams. The Flat 2020 equivalent this summer attracted 26,415 stables.

Will post regular updates over the next six months on the progress of the Fiso syndicate as well as the free Fiso prize mini-league (nine stables to date).

I invited(!) the Tote to provide a list of the most popular selections by number. None is available, sadly, but they'll consider this...

The Fiso syndicate picked two chasers in every line - Shishkin and Envoi Allen - and hurdler Epatante in 21 of the 24 stables. We 'permed' 39 horses in total, but 18 of these appeared in only one line.

I believe Fisons would be interested in seeing the different strategies other entrants employed.

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps * 14 Nov to 24 April *

Post by wahine »

That track surface was terrible :(

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Fiso prize mini-league of free teams

Post by SamD »

Fiso Free Federation: 10 at the starting gate

Dicky’s Donkeys, dickypick
Diggers, Ashers
Forever Changes, SamD
Free Horseshoes, Striker
Minnie Milan's Mates, topspur
Mudahim Free, Muddy
OvertheLast, Ottershaw
Pathetico Athletico, trampie
Polarbear Express, polarbear
Yorkies Freebie, Yorkshire Exile

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps * 14 Nov to 24 April *

Post by Striker »

Thanks to Neil and Paul for meaningful responses to my email. I’ll use my reply as an opportunity to start a discussion in this thread.

Firstly I assume that Neil’s apologies are tongue in cheek. Otherwise I’ve lost the ability to express what I mean to say. 😊 I’m not unhappy with the similarity of our teams, just that they were more similar than I expected.

Re: Neil’s comments on Rouge Vif, Goshen and Sire du Berlais, none of which can I really disagree with. I can understand the hesitation with all three and as I said Goshen was rather a heart over head selection. I’ll be delighted if he is a Katchit and he could be, but he could also be a total disappointment. The upside and downside are both considerable. I would however completely ignore his recent flat form, his last run was as good as anything he’s previously achieved in his moderate flat career. But that won’t be enough to reassure anyone including my own head that he is destined for a successful NH season. I am however happy that I’ve included Sire du Bergais in six lines. The inclusion of all three is part of a theoretical argument as to whether one should include risky horses which do at least have a chance of a big upside.

In an entry of 5 or 6 lines one is going to stick to mixing and matching around 13 of the safer more likely stars, with perhaps one or two other horses appearing in one or two “lines”. In fact in my own entry my first 5 odd entries do not include any of the riskier horses and are based on the core most popular horses as they are popular for a reason. But as I progress through the entries more and more horses of the Goshen, Sire du Berlais type appear in my teams until the last entry included Delta Work, Allaho, and Abracadabras which hadn’t been used up to that point.

My total entry is nearly as large as the syndicate entry and while one approach would be to continue to concentrate on a mixing and matching one’s own top 13 or so horses which would give one a great chance of winning or going close if one’s core group was pretty good, a couple of injuries would mean that the rest of your selections would have to be pinhead perfect. The decision between this approach and a wider selection doesn’t, I think, have an objective answer. In fact one thing that does support the use of a small core of horses even with a 20 stable entry is that I’ve found in the past that including a horse just once in your entry hasn’t been successful as the rest of that entry has to be very very good or otherwise the risky successful selection is a waste of time. That’s why when I decide to include a horse, (before the last minute one or two entries which are put in to include horse that I haven’t used before, and which are usually my poorest performing lines) I include it in 4-6 lines, so that if for example Saldier miraculously stays fit, I still have a chance that his entry was useful, as I’m not dependent on a single specific line.

Again the point that Neil raises of not restricting a huge potential horse to as few as 75% of entries is largely a combination of the number of entries that one makes AND personal preference. Even if both Envoi Allen and Shishkin turn out to be essential I’ll still have around 12 lines which are still in play. And if one or both are duds due to injury or whatever, I’ll still be in the game. However the main point why I’d argue for including some risk is that you could win with say three horses blanking up to March as you can dump two, but you cannot win if you don’t include at least 4 or 5 of the biggest point scorers. And as I said above if you are including a potentially great but risky selection having it in just one line is less likely to pay off.

As regards the three you didn’t touch, I’m already already wondering if I was right to include 5 Samcro; I agree that Fakir’s form left a little to be desired but I have a “feeling” and so I won’t wonder about the soundness of this choice until he’s run a couple of times; Saldier I’d still argue for, as he’s fine on yielding or soft and MIGHT get that both at Leopardstown in February and at Cheltenham. There’s a potential 100+ points right there IF 😉 he ever turns up.

The question of whether one should delay putting certain horses in from the start is a tricky one. Clearly if a horse is unlikely to run much before Cheltenham one should be hesitant, but often there are two or three horses which weren’t obviously pickable at the beginning of the season but who by early March appear to be must haves. If you have a couple of horses that you were “waiting for”, you may have a problem. Saldier can’t really be waited with, (rejecting him completely is a different matter) as you’d want him to win the Irish Champion in early February. Waiting is clearly best for novice hurdlers unless there’s a huge chance of running up a sequence as apart from uncertainty about their true NH quality, there are no bonus races for them at any time. Certainly for any given “line” I’d never be wanting to wait for more than one horse. Although you are pretty sure that you’ll be needing to make transfers due to injury or poor form, the only effect on one’s initial selection should be not to go mad on risk. While you still have complete freedom to bring in whatever two horses you want, your transfers out will often be constrained. If you have two horses out for the season, there is zero freedom. Unlike fantasy football where you can transfer who you like both in and out.

As regards the approach to transfers, I don’t think that picking stables based on having one of your transfers already earmarked is a sound strategy even though occasionally it may pay off.
One key aspect of this game is similar to fantasy football where your ideal team changes in your mind from week to week. Unlike fantasy football, here you unfortunately can’t take any corrective action. But this doesn’t mean that you should adopt a minimal risk free strategy. For among other reasons all your stables will be very like thousands of other stables and you’ll need to land on a pinhead to win. The ideal solution is to have a few minimal risk teams and others which are riskier.

Moving onto Paul’s main points. I hope that we are not the only two who feel that this thread is the best place for us to air our thoughts. As regards his conclusion that as the probability that the horse selected in place of an Envoi Allen/Shishkin will do really well is low (agreed), you should include those horses in all your lines is solid in a single digit number size of entry, I disagree with that conclusion for larger entries. But hey ho, it’s all subjective and given the luck element in the game, the views of losers and winners are often equally valid. It would probably need a doctoral thesis to determine which is the better long term approach in a number of TTTF selection issues.

This weekend we probably all have some interest in the Betfair, while after Goshen’s withdrawal, there is limited interest at Ascot other than Imperial Aura. There are also several of our horses likely to be involved in Ireland this weekend, and in this afternoon’s Presenting Percy, Monalee, Kemboy clash. Weekend highlights could be Minella Indo who has a potential penalty kick if he turns up at Navan on Sunday. While at Naas on Saturday Fakir D’Oudairies faces Notebook and Cash Back.

Anyway among my ramblings I hope I've addressed the points in Neil's and Paul's emails.

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2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps

Post by SamD »

Thanks, Striker. Shall respond in a while.

In meantime, a few stats for entrants to cogitate on...

Jumps: 20 most popular picks across almost 45,000 entries
65.1% Envoi Allen
63.6% Epatante
54.8% Shishkin
49.7% Honeysuckle
46.2% Lostintranslation
39.4% Cyrname
38.8% Minella Indo
34.2% Saint Roi
31.6% Defi Du Seuil
30.5% Altior
28.3% Clan Des Obeaux
26.6% Chacun Pour Soir
26.0% Santini
23.7% Champ
17.6% Delta Work
16.6% Paisley Park
16.4% Monkfish
16.3% Abacadabras
15.6% Allaho
12.4% Thyme Hill

Of the above only Champ isn't a Fiso syndicate pick.

Fiso selections: stable appearances
24 Envoi Allen 65.1%
24 Shishkin 54.8%
21 Epatante 63.6%
17 Minella Indo 38.8%
16 Lostintranslation 46.2%
15 Cyrname 39.4%
15 Santini 26.0%
14 Honeysuckle 49.7%
11 Clan des Obeaux 28.3%
11 Chacun Pour Sois 26.6%
10 Saint Roi 34.2%
10 Altior 30.5%
07 Defi Du Seuil 31.6%
06 Min
04 Thyme Hill 12.4%
04 McFabulous
03 Delta Work 17.6%
03 Greaneteen
03 Bristol de Mai
02 Paisley Park 16.6%
02 Monkfish 16.4%
01 Abacadabras 16.3%
01 Allaho 15.6%
01 Chantry House
01 The Big Breakaway 5.7%
01 The Big Getaway
01 Put The Kettle On 11.8%
01 Rouge Vif
01 Goshen
01 Sire Du Berlais
01 Ferny Hollow
01 Appreciate It
01 Simply The Betts
01 Siruh du Lac
01 Imperial Aura
01 Vinndication
01 Two for Gold
01 Mister Fisher
01 Melon
(0 Champ 23.7%)

Horses with most points to date
1 Eldorado Allen 29.9pts; in 0.9% of teams
2 Abacadabras 28.42; 16.3%
3 Duffle Coat 24.1; 0.3%
4 Ramses De Teillee 23.6; 0.3%
5 Felix Desjy 23.6; 0.9%
6 Put The Kettle On 22.2; 11.8%
7 Fury Road 22.12; 5.8%
8 On The Blind Side 19.4; 0.1%
9 Buildmeupbuttercup 16.8; 0.1%

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps * most popular picks *

Post by wahine »

Hi all, I think Champ was discussed by the team, but yes, we can't have them all :) and a distant fourth favourite for the King George Chase which I read was the intended run.

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps * most popular picks *

Post by Striker »

wahine wrote: 20 Nov 2020, 00:21 Hi all, I think Champ was discussed by the team, but yes, we can't have them all :) and a distant fourth favourite for the King George Chase which I read was the intended run.
Kempton isn't supposed to be a track for Champ. Newbury and Cheltenham are more his thing. His intended Christmas run is said to be the Savills (Lexus). Although Covid19 restrictions may or may not stymie that.

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps * most popular picks *

Post by wahine »

:( so I see Champ ran a second on the flat at Kempton, is it the type of obstacles that don't suit him Striker?

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps * most popular picks *

Post by Striker »

Not sure if you're being serious but I'll respond anyway. Any horse can run on any track and if the competition isn't great can win or be placed. That's not to say that he will perform at or close to his best. The race that you refer to was a Class 5 bumper for which Champ was odds on but failed to win. The view that Champ is better suited to Newbury, Kempton etc is based on the fact that good judges say that he is better suited to galloping tracks which place an emphasis on stamina. Those judges include Nicky Henderson who should know the horse. :wink:

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps * most popular picks *

Post by Yorkshire Exile »

:wink: Strikers post had the makings of a doctoral thesis.

Interesting views.... I collected cash for a syndicate and then was largely left on my own to pick. I am not an expert.

I auto permed 54 lines and then did 6 freehand to add up to collected cash. I then fiddled in a few extra horses manually to diversify.

Much like my fantasy football strategy I will either be very right with multiple similar teams challenging...... Or more likely horribly wrong

Got a core of I think 19 horses with I think a further 21 in limited lines. Best so far on 40.82 points..... Which as is always the way was one of the manual picks

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Re: 2020-21 Tote Ten to Follow Jumps * most popular picks *

Post by wahine »

Thank you Striker, I have only seen those races on TV and without Pundit preamble (bar the big meetings) so I don't know a lot about how those tracks over there play.
anyway as I said we can not have them all, Champ may well be the one we needed at the end of the Season.

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