Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

[murf]

"World class" is over used but, to me, means you are one of the best in the world, i.e. would get get in a World XI or at least be a contender /squad member so it is stretching it to say (m)any of the England team are world class - a couple might scrape into a 26 man squad!

[thebillfella]

Maguire? Lindelof for Sweden?

I think the fact you've come up with just 2 with question marks sufficiently demonstrates my earlier point FF!

Maguire has played well for United and no different than with England IMO - it's just that any mistake he makes for United is amplified tenfold. It is noticeable for United when he is not there as he, as for England, is the organiser/leader back there.

With Lindelof, again I would say something similar relative to his level. He's a decent if not exceptional centre half who on the whole looks good against all but the very best opposition. He's looked good in these Championships as he hasn't really been tested by anyone who would constitute Premier League top 4.

To a degree Lukaku is very similar in that regard; some who follow stats as the primary evidence for ability are saying how good he is now for Inter but he's no different really (other than about a stone lighter!) as he's playing in a lesser league against predominantly none top 4 Prem opposition. He was always a good flat track bully and he has found his level in Serie A and in the Euros against Russia and Finland (despite that awful first touch still being there one a number of occasions!), but he was still found wanting when up against the stronger opposition in the Euros (and in the Champions League finishing bottom of a very winnable group).

[thebillfella]

Weakest squad in decades, when we can’t get the likes of Foden and Grealish into the team? Not sure about that, though we do have one or two weak positions.

The weakest squad we’ve had that I can remember was the Hodgson era, when we were trying to squeeze the last bit of fuel out of the tank of the “golden” generation because there really wasn’t much else.

We do seem to have an abundance of almost-riches in the attacking positions. Kane and Sterling are top class but not really quite world class and of the rest (Foden, Grealish, Saka, Sancho, Bellingham etc) none can even establish themselves as the best option. Too much choice, not enough real top class. The rest of the squad (the spine) is fairly mediocre and are not of the individual standard of Lampard/Gerrard/Rio/Terry etc. They are all solid enough and, as I said, are playing really well together as a unit that has become greater than the sum of its parts - a bit like someone like Denmark (or previously Greece, Croatia, Iceland etc).

Depends on how you define “world class”. As one of the pundits pointed out at the Denmark-Czech game - Ronaldo, Mbappe, De Bruyne, all back home anyway!

I don’t think you can obviously say the Italy and Spain teams are better man-for-man, either. At the start of the tournament I’d probably have only picked out France and Belgium as squads clearly meeting that description compared to England. Italy are even more clearly better than the sum of their parts (parts that didn’t even qualify for the World Cup three years ago) and Spain are kind of muddling through with raw talent, luck and self-destructing opponents but not a lot of players you’d pick out as obviously world-class either.

Greece and Iceland in their different ways were Championship-level players made good, so really can’t compare to this England side full of Champions League regulars… Croatia at their peak had one world-class player in Modric and another few very good ones, though did overachieve in terms of depth of quality available I suppose.

Yep, agree with all of that.

[forestfan]

Re. Lukaku - I’ve always seen similarities with Andy Cole, he too had certain limitations and was a confidence player who often missed a lot of chances, but United stuck with him and eventually got the best out of him. Those four strikers in the 1999 team were all very good but not quite world class, they were competing for starts, two of them seemingly couldn’t stand the sight of each other, and yet Fergie turned them into a legendary unit.

[thebillfella]

"World class" is over used but, to me, means you are one of the best in the world, i.e. would get get in a World XI or at least be a contender /squad member so it is stretching it to say (m)any of the England team are world class - a couple might scrape into a 26 man squad!

Yes, I guess there is no universal definition to world class which is why Lukaku thinks he is world class at a time where there aren't many out and out strikers in the game any more (but tonnes of wide forwards!) but we still have the likes of Lewandowski, Benzema, Haaland and Kane who are a clear level above him IMO.

The above definition is a decent one, but difficult to get into a world class squad if you are an attacking mid / forward and full backs atm (which is where we have an abundance of talent).

Conversely, there is a dearth of world class centre halves and centre forwards in the game today (especially when you compare to the 90's and 00's generations - some of today's world XI wouldn't get anywhere near the squad of those decades IMO.

[forestfan]

The traditional striker/centre-forward position has become something of an endangered species, and that’s probably down to Messi and Ronaldo and the rise of more flexible attacking players, and the demise of 4-4-2 at the top level. Defending’s certainly taken a hit but that could be down to refereeing guidelines/VAR etc.

I’d say “world-class” should mean they would make a hypothetical 23-man Earth squad for the inaugural Interplanetary Cup. Though sure there would be much debate as to what such a squad would look like!

[thebillfella]

Re. Lukaku - I’ve always seen similarities with Andy Cole, he too had certain limitations and was a confidence player who often missed a lot of chances, but United stuck with him and eventually got the best out of him. Those four strikers in the 1999 team were all very good but not quite world class, they were competing for starts, two of them seemingly couldn’t stand the sight of each other, and yet Fergie turned them into a legendary unit.

I can see that. Was at a time when teams were still playing 2 forwards so was easier to keep 4 happy I guess. I think the modern formations with one forward have been the cataylst for the development of the wide attacking forward and the death of the slight fox in the box forward like Ole or Owen say (who excelled with a second striker alongside or behind) - centre forwards really need to be powerhouses these days to succeed, which is why the likes of Lukaku are (over-)valued in the modern game (and why everyone and their dog will be fighting over Kane and Haaland).

[Edit: looks like you've pretty much just said the same thing! ]

[forestfan]

The position’s obviously still evolving, from “false nines”, interchangeable front threes and link-up players who don’t score a lot of goals, to traditional number 9s with a physical presence who may or may not be the main source of goals. Obviously you ideally want someone who can do everything, but will be interesting to see what comes to dominate.

[buu1333]

Behave! Shaw has looked like this all season!

Wasn't long ago that you all used to have a go at United players (Rooney especially) for not playing as well for England as they did for United! You can't have it both ways!!!

Generally England have failed to get star players to play well and so the various 'golden generations' have underwhelmed and underperformed in recent decades (United players and those of other clubs). Southgate has done the opposite and has got what I consider, on paper, to be the weakest England squad in decades to become greater than the sum of its parts and play as an actual 'team'. It probably helps that many are non Big 6 players or Big 6 players who haven't done that much on a really big stage but even the 'been there, done that' (to varying degrees) established names (United and otherwise - Sterling, Kane, Maguire, Stones, Henderson etc) look like they are buying into it.

A proper team now not just a kick and run team. International football is a lot slower than the prem league maybe that what holds us back. More about positioning and movement in right places with good passing , rather then pace. I think it Suit other league more like seria a, la Liga . People were saying drop Kane he is too slow at the start and when things don't go well they say we need more pace but that not true there is more too it then that. But as I say it more about positioning and movement in right place Rather then running at defence with ball at feet

[blahblah]

The issue with Kane is his movement and positioning?

[Moon Knight]

There is no issue with Kane. He’s a brilliant all round centre forward.

Italy and Spain would love to have a centre forward as good as Kane. Immobile and Morata aren’t fit to lace his boots.

[buu1333]

The issue with Kane is his movement and positioning?

no people were saying he is too slow at start drop him ect. Not me

When things go wrong for England a lot of people say we need more pace, we need players to run at defenders when that is not true.

[buu1333]

There is no issue with Kane. He’s a brilliant all round centre forward.

Italy and Spain would love to have a centre forward as good as Kane. Immobile and Morata aren’t fit to lace his boots.

yes but their football is slower like international football, that is why Italy and Spain look better as a team than England in the past

edit past not pass

[buu1333]

Any way I was replying to murf

Generally England have failed to get star players to play well and so the various 'golden generations' have underwhelmed and underperformed in recent decades (United players and those of other clubs). Southgate has done the opposite and has got what I consider, on paper, to be the weakest England squad in decades to become greater than the sum of its parts and play as an actual 'team'. It probably helps that many are non Big 6 players or Big 6 players who haven't done that much on a really big stage but even the 'been there, done that' (to varying degrees) established names (United and otherwise - Sterling, Kane, Maguire, Stones, Henderson etc) look like they are buying into it.

[Bob Newhart]

Immobile and Morata aren’t fit to lace his boots.

Immobile isn't very mobile and Morata isn’t fit to lace George Weah's cousin's boots.

[forestfan]

Immobile and Morata aren’t fit to lace his boots.

Immobile isn't very mobile and Morata isn’t fit to lace George Weah's cousin's boots.

Which one, Ali Dia or Christopher Wreh?

[Bob Newhart]

Immobile and Morata aren’t fit to lace his boots.

Immobile isn't very mobile and Morata isn’t fit to lace George Weah's cousin's boots.

Which one, Ali Dia or Christopher Wreh?

Neither, either or both. Infact, Morata isn't even fit to lace his own boots.

[Magic]

In next season's Champions League, the champions of the six top-ranked associations will be joined in pot 1 by the CL and Europa League title-holders. This happened at the start of the current season when La Liga champs Real Madrid were joined by Sevilla, the EL winners, in the 'best' of the four pots.

REALLY important to win this. Both for Ole's tenure (a first trophy) and as noted above, better options in next year's CL!

I would have thought MU would be in Top Pot if MC win the CL.

Lost and in Pot 2. Weirdly, the better pot, I think.

[Magic]

Morata isn't even fit to lace his own boots.

He definitely can't take penalties with them. Maybe he needs more easily laced up boots.

[thebillfella]

One for blah:

Adam Lallana: “I misjudged Harry Maguire. I don’t mind admitting that. I have always thought he was a very good player, but what this tournament has shown me, and hopefully others, is that he is at the next level: a proven world-class defender.”

Man Utd Telegram https://t.me/Empire_MU

World class a bit strong and depends on how you define it as said earlier, but with the anti-United biased specs off I think quite a few people are seeing what we see most weeks!

[blahblah]

While Lalla nose, I'm far from convinced and we have played a load of dross?

Obviously when he gets an og tomorrow, FISO eill blame you

[thebillfella]

No doubt!

Another one ref our enigma:

Teddy Sheringham: "It's a funny situation, isn't it? He's got a year to go and could go on a free and go and get himself an absolute fortune - as if they don't earn enough money now. I think if United or Ole got vibes that's what he was trying to do, I'm sure he'd try to sell him now and get as much as he could for him.Whether that's the right thing or the wrong thing... he's sometimes played in midfield and sometimes been left out, but if you're a top player you don't get left out.It's as simple as that. If you're that good, you don't get left out. When you look at Pogba, is he worth that much? Without doubt he's a talented boy, you only have to look at the goal he scored in the Euros recently. But there's always question marks, there's been question marks the last four years. He's been there five years and there's been question marks for four years.I don't think you can keep having that conversation every time Pogba's mentioned. I know you can't please everyone but you've got to have support of 80% of supporters or the hierarchy to be a top player. I don't think that's the case. If you could get as much money for him now, I would, as long as you get replacements and wash your hands with the situation."

Yep, that just about sums it up to a tee.

[blahblah]

Yeah. I've consistently been in the "What is the fuss about" group. He seems too Jack of All Trades - although I can't pretend to have scrutinised every minute of him at Utd.

[thebillfella]

He's a bit more "there was a little girl who had a little curl"...

[Bob Newhart]

If it happens (BIG If), Varane should improve him.

[thebillfella]

So should Sancho as another willing runner in behind the lines, but not as much as
Kante would!

Lots of rumours around Camavinga atm - is this us preparing for his departure?

[Bob Newhart]

...is this us preparing for his departure?

I hope so.

[blahblah]

If it happens (BIG If), Varane should improve him.

Isn't it almost a done deal?

[Bob Newhart]

If it happens (BIG If), Varane should improve him.

Isn't it almost a done deal?

Apparently... but as you said a few posts ago: "Seeing is believing".

[blahblah]

If it happens (BIG If), Varane should improve him.

Isn't it almost a done deal?

Apparently... but as you said a few posts ago: "Seeing is believing".

Damn!

My wisdom being quoted back at me