Reclassified players

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Gambit
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Reclassified players

Post by Gambit »

Right, I know this topic rears its head every year, but im bored now the football has finished! :D

Do you think any players will be reclassified this year? Are you bothered either way?

Martial - has to move to forward surely
Lundstram - move to midfield
Salah - been talked of since his first season, frequently the most advanced player at liverpool, time for a move to forward?
Mane - not quite as advanced as but still very high up
Firmino - hes more a midfielder than salah and mane right? Move him to midfield and move salah and mane forward to really shake things up?
Antonio - was it a full time move up front or just to cover haller?
Sterling - doesnt really get chalk on his boots like a traditional winger?
Son - played upfront with Kane towards the back end of the season

Any others?

For me, im not overly bothered what they do but it would be interesting if they moved some of the big hitters, Salah is every bit as advanced as most strikers, would like to see the dynamic changing by reclassifying a few.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by bigcliff2 »

Martial, Lundstram and Antonio are certain to change. I'd be flabbergasted if they don't. The others you mentioned will, I suspect, stay the same. Arguably wrongly but they will nonetheless. I guess in that scenario the question is whether the likes of Rashford and Greenwood become midfielders.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by cymbalrush84 »

Matt Ritchie could go either way imo. Lazaro should still be a midfielder, but wouldn't rule that out.

Can't be sure on Neto and Podence, Jota and Traore will remain respectively.

Antonio will be a steal if he remains a midfielder.

Deulofeu if someone snaps him up? Can't tell.

Fernandinho? In the event Citeh don't sign another CB?

Richarlison will be up top, no question. Anthony Gordon will be a midfielder.

Zaha? If he's a Palace player before the reveal, will be a forward, otherwise a midfielder.

Some of these are at a push, but still worth bearing in mind.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by Gambit »

bigcliff2 wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 15:05
Martial, Lundstram and Antonio are certain to change. I'd be flabbergasted if they don't. The others you mentioned will, I suspect, stay the same. Arguably wrongly but they will nonetheless. I guess in that scenario the question is whether the likes of Rashford and Greenwood become midfielders.
I suspect you are correct, i do wonder though what the reluctance is from fpl towers regarding moving a player such as salah?

It would mean the coming season would see united with rashford/greenwood/martial as strikers but liverpool would have salah/mane as midfielders with firmino as a striker, it seems strange, from the six players listed there id say firmino is most often the deepest, while salah along with martial the most advanced. If rashford is a striker then Salah should be too?

Could you make a case for Auba to move to midfield? Hes being used pretty much how liverpool use salah.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by Bob Newhart »

Gambit wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 15:14
united with rashford/greenwood/martial as strikers but liverpool would have salah/mane as midfielders.
The basis for a team...

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by Finisher1 »

cymbalrush84 wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 15:07
Antonio will be a steal if he remains a midfielder.
Why? I think he is actually a midfielder whenever Haller or any other striker is on the field.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by cymbalrush84 »


Finisher1 wrote:
cymbalrush84 wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 15:07
Antonio will be a steal if he remains a midfielder.
Why? I think he is actually a midfielder whenever Haller or any other striker is on the field.
Of course, but there's a possibility he will be more sought as the main alternative to Haller.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by Finisher1 »

cymbalrush84 wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 15:42
Finisher1 wrote:
cymbalrush84 wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 15:07
Antonio will be a steal if he remains a midfielder.
Why? I think he is actually a midfielder whenever Haller or any other striker is on the field.
Of course, but there's a possibility he will be more sought as the main alternative to Haller.

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Yes, if he remains classified as a midfielder in FPL and being a nailed striker in their starting XI and also moderately priced in FPL, then he would be a steal.

Probably not very likely that he is going to tick all three boxes, or even two.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by Smurphy's Paw »

The current split of forwards and very attacking midfielders, such as Salah in midfield, is interesting in terms of pricing. 5 points for a goal plus the potential for a clean sheet justifies a higher price for the same player. Move them forward and what would you pay? Presumably less?

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by bigcliff2 »

It strikes me as pretty unlikely that Moyes is going to stop using Antonio as a striker and I strongly suspect that FPL will also think that. I'd say he's nailed on as a forward.

Re above, you can't really make a strong argument, based on this season, that Greenwood/Rashford should be classified differently from Salah/Mane/Son. That's likely to be as midfielders though because to do otherwise would represent a pretty huge change to the game that I don't see them considering.

Aubameyang I think is slightly different in that he also regularly plays through the middle, so I don't see that changing. You could also make a similar argument about Rashford I guess because, if Martial is injured, he's the one who's likely to play up front.

Richarlison is a good shout too, he's a certain reclassification.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by ajcairns »

Essentially most teams line up with three echelons of players DEF, MID. FWD and most of the time these will either be 433 343 352 etc. Occasionally teams will have someone between the lines in a 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1 but most of the times the players are reasonably easy to define as the FPL Def Mid or Fwd.

Use Liverpool and City as examples, no one is ever arguing that the back 4s are anything other than DEFs so lets move passed them. Both teams line up 4-3-3 ish so two banks of three. Salah, Mane, Sterling are almost never in the MID echelon, so should they be easy to classify as FWD? For Salah & Mane to be banking clean sheet points seems like the game is broke at the moment.

Same goes for Man United. Rashford, Martial, Greenwood is the FWD line. Make all three of them FWDs and not many would complain, but by doing so seems hypocritical when Salah and Mane remain as MIDs

Richarlison just about justifies being a FWD, probably Zaha too. Son and Traore might be the trickiest decisions to make but I'm sure which ever way they went it would be unarguable.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by Gambit »

Smurphy's Paw wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 16:01
The current split of forwards and very attacking midfielders, such as Salah in midfield, is interesting in terms of pricing. 5 points for a goal plus the potential for a clean sheet justifies a higher price for the same player. Move them forward and what would you pay? Presumably less?
Indeed, would have to be a price cut, think Salah got 10 pts for clean sheets and scored 19 goals so thats a 29 point reduction straight away. Not sure how the bonus points would be impacted but salah on circa 200 points would seem overpriced for 12.5m.

Martial would have lost 14 clean sheet points and 17 points on goals so thats a 31 point drop - not counting any changes to bonus! 169 doesnt look anywhere near as nice as 200.

Just think it will shake things up a bit if they move some players, and to be honest some of these “midfielders” are now the most advanced attacking players in the game.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by bigcliff2 »

I don't think there's any chance of Zaha being reclassified personally. There was a season a few years back where he played in a front two while being classified as a midfielder. They then switched him to a forward for the new season, and he played that season wide again, so they switched him back. He's been playing wide this season again, so...

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by hancockjr »

If Salah, Mane, Sterling (hence Mahrez) Rashford, Greenwood, Martial, Son etc are strikers, as well as Kane, Firmino etc then FPL need to redress the 3-5 split in the squad, as people are essentially saying teams are playing 4 3 3 so why 5 5 3 in the squad?

Personally I don't think it matters what they are classified as, as long as they are priced appropriately.

Would the game be better if Salah, Mane and Firmino (who definitely is a striker) were classified as strikers? No. That's the only real consideration.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by Gambit »

hancockjr wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 16:16
If Salah, Mane, Sterling (hence Mahrez) Rashford, Greenwood, Martial, Son etc are strikers, as well as Kane, Firmino etc then FPL need to redress the 3-5 split in the squad, as people are essentially saying teams are playing 4 3 3 so why 5 5 3 in the squad?

Personally I don't think it matters what they are classified as, as long as they are priced appropriately.

Would the game be better if Salah, Mane and Firmino (who definitely is a striker) were classified as strikers? No. That's the only real consideration.
I agree, but i think it would be different and thats more my point.

All over social media people are already planning their teams, which is fine as we all enjoy the game, but if the game launches and salah, sterling, son etc are strikers it suddenly changes the dynamic and people have to think differently and reassess the value of these players. Just think it freshens things up and can easily be justified by things like heat maps and average position.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by ajcairns »

Can it be boiled down to Rashford v Mane? I don't think anyone is expecting Rashford to be reclassified to a MID is there?
Rashford v Mane.png
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Re: Reclassified players

Post by Gambit »

ajcairns wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 16:30
Can it be boiled down to Rashford v Mane? I don't think anyone is expecting Rashford to be reclassified to a MID is there?

Rashford v Mane.png
Yes, this is what i mean, are they both strikers or both midfielders? Cant really have one as a striker and the other a midfielder.

Have you got the heat map to hand for firmino?

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by Bixer »

ajcairns wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 16:30
Can it be boiled down to Rashford v Mane? I don't think anyone is expecting Rashford to be reclassified to a MID is there?

Rashford v Mane.png
Surprisingly from what I've seen a lot of people do think Rashford should be reclassified as a MID (I disagree personally...)

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by ajcairns »

I chucked Salah in there too.
Firmino v Salah.png
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Re: Reclassified players

Post by ajcairns »

I think the 1pt CS is relevant for the likes of Henderson, Rice, Matic, Jorginho, Xhaka etc. Reclassifiying some of the non MIDs up to FWD would bring them into the game a bit more.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by Gambit »

ajcairns wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 16:42
I chucked Salah in there too.

Firmino v Salah.png
Cheers, those heat maps just make a mockery of salah/mane midfielders while firmino is the striker.

If you think about it, firmino is the striker for the best team in the country, and hes owned by about 10%, has there ever been the striker from the league champions who is almost a non pick in fpl? Vardy, aguero, henry, drogba, the various united strikers all hugely owned, but the way liverpool play there is almost no point picking firmino. Im aware that in real life hes a striker, and a brilliant one too at what he does, but for the purpose of fpl he would benefit from moving to midfield while salah and mane move forward.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by Stevieste »

It was already difficult picking 3 strikers this season, if you add all of the above to that then other than Bruno and KdB who would you really have in midfield 🤷‍♂️

I personally think should stay the same and Rashford and Greenwood should even be down as midfielders next season

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by ajcairns »

Bixer wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 16:40
ajcairns wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 16:30
Can it be boiled down to Rashford v Mane? I don't think anyone is expecting Rashford to be reclassified to a MID is there?

Rashford v Mane.png
Surprisingly from what I've seen a lot of people do think Rashford should be reclassified as a MID (I disagree personally...)
Some people (the same people?) are also saying Auba should also be a Mid!

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by hancockjr »

Gambit wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 16:21
hancockjr wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 16:16
If Salah, Mane, Sterling (hence Mahrez) Rashford, Greenwood, Martial, Son etc are strikers, as well as Kane, Firmino etc then FPL need to redress the 3-5 split in the squad, as people are essentially saying teams are playing 4 3 3 so why 5 5 3 in the squad?

Personally I don't think it matters what they are classified as, as long as they are priced appropriately.

Would the game be better if Salah, Mane and Firmino (who definitely is a striker) were classified as strikers? No. That's the only real consideration.
I agree, but i think it would be different and thats more my point.

All over social media people are already planning their teams, which is fine as we all enjoy the game, but if the game launches and salah, sterling, son etc are strikers it suddenly changes the dynamic and people have to think differently and reassess the value of these players. Just think it freshens things up and can easily be justified by things like heat maps and average position.
It's literally impossible to plan a team before prices are out, so they're wasting their time and should get a life. It's like deciding on a bet before you know the odds.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by ajcairns »

Does anyone think "Forwards" and "Strikers" are the same thing?

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by Mo Bot »

Thing is, if all the attacking midfielders are reclassified as forwards then it just shifts the selection dilemma. Everyone picks KDB and Fernandes but you have 15-20 good forwards to pick from, basically the top 10 scoring midfielders apart from KDB.

Personally, I wouldn't differentiate on heat map. You could argue TAA is a midfielder or forward based on that you could argue. I'd base it on how far forward a player is at a goal kick (attacking and defending).

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by ajcairns »

Mo Bot wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 17:14
Thing is, if all the attacking midfielders are reclassified as forwards then it just shifts the selection dilemma. Everyone picks KDB and Fernandes but you have 15-20 good forwards to pick from, basically the top 10 scoring midfielders apart from KDB.

Personally, I wouldn't differentiate on heat map. You could argue TAA is a midfielder or forward based on that you could argue. I'd base it on how far forward a player is at a goal kick (attacking and defending).
Pulisic, Mount, Pepe, Willian, Fernandes, De Bryune, Son (ish), Grealish, Maddison, Alli, Bilva, Moura, Foden all attacking MIDs that aren't in this debate, so it's not ALL of them is it Mo?

They are the top scoring midfielders because they are actually forwards.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by hancockjr »

ajcairns wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 17:14
Does anyone think "Forwards" and "Strikers" are the same thing?
Forwards are players who play far up the pitch. Strikers are players who play far up the pitch and score goals. Essentially all forwards are strikers except Emile Heskey and Ricky Van Wolfswinkel.

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by hancockjr »

ajcairns wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 17:22
Mo Bot wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 17:14
Thing is, if all the attacking midfielders are reclassified as forwards then it just shifts the selection dilemma. Everyone picks KDB and Fernandes but you have 15-20 good forwards to pick from, basically the top 10 scoring midfielders apart from KDB.

Personally, I wouldn't differentiate on heat map. You could argue TAA is a midfielder or forward based on that you could argue. I'd base it on how far forward a player is at a goal kick (attacking and defending).
Pulisic, Mount, Pepe, Willian, Fernandes, De Bryune, Son (ish), Grealish, Maddison, Alli, Bilva, Moura, Foden all attacking MIDs that aren't in this debate, so it's not ALL of them is it Mo?

They are the top scoring midfielders because they are actually forwards.
Pulisic probably plays as far forward as some of those mentioned. Good luck getting a team out of the rest of them!

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Re: Reclassified players

Post by Mo Bot »

Gambit wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 16:56
ajcairns wrote:
28 Jul 2020, 16:42
I chucked Salah in there too.

Firmino v Salah.png
Cheers, those heat maps just make a mockery of salah/mane midfielders while firmino is the striker.

If you think about it, firmino is the striker for the best team in the country, and hes owned by about 10%, has there ever been the striker from the league champions who is almost a non pick in fpl? Vardy, aguero, henry, drogba, the various united strikers all hugely owned, but the way liverpool play there is almost no point picking firmino. Im aware that in real life hes a striker, and a brilliant one too at what he does, but for the purpose of fpl he would benefit from moving to midfield while salah and mane move forward.
It comes down to the pricing as well. If it's a choice between Vardy at 9.0 or Firmino at 9.5 then you pick Vardy most of the time. Next season when Vardy is 10 and Firmino is 7.5(he won't be) then it's a decision to make. What makes it unfair is that Salah gets 8 points for a goal in a 1-0 win but Bobby only gets 6.

Salah as a 199 point striker makes you think twice. Salah as a 233 point midfielder doesn't.

If nothing changes then I will only captain "midfielders" next season.

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