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Gomez

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MOBIUS
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Gomez

Post by MOBIUS » 13 Jan 2020, 10:54

I’ve ended up with Joe Gomez as a cheap option for LI defence, with Salah and Mané.
Thoughts on this with DGW on the horizon?
Would be nice if Klopp has noticed that the run of 6 clean sheets has coincided with Gomez partnering VVD.
My own thinking is double up on LI defenders and toss a coin between whether to downgrade Salah and Mané is a better option, but would involve taking a hit. Plus there’s the quandary over Gomez long term.
Thoughts?

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Re: Gomez

Post by Stevieste » 13 Jan 2020, 11:51

Joe Gomez is the only liverpool defender who you solely rely on for clean sheet points as he wont get any attacking returns.

I have TAA and VVD and even though the latter can get the odd attacking return he will be going for me soon to robertson as him and TAA are on another level going forward.

I will have them 2 with Salah and just cry when Mane continues his fine run.

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Re: Gomez

Post by EastvilleIMP » 13 Jan 2020, 12:29

Stevieste wrote:
13 Jan 2020, 11:51
Joe Gomez is the only liverpool defender who you solely rely on for clean sheet points as he wont get any attacking returns.

I have TAA and VVD and even though the latter can get the odd attacking return he will be going for me soon to robertson as him and TAA are on another level going forward.

I will have them 2 with Salah and just cry when Mane continues his fine run.
That’s the approach I have, I ditched mane for salah as he’s on pens and was more of a differential in my ML.

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Re: Gomez

Post by Zimmerman » 13 Jan 2020, 12:54

Gomez is currently first choice. It’s his position to lose.

Matip hasn’t played for 11 weeks.
Gomez is playing really well.

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Re: Gomez

Post by Caf » 13 Jan 2020, 13:13

I got Gomez in for Aurier two weeks ago – it's been one of my more successful moves of the season!
Have been thinking about his place in squad quite a bit, actually. I'd been assuming I'd upgrade him to Robbo/Mane when the DGW comes around, but am increasingly unsure about that. I've got transfers to make elsewhere so I might just keep him and minimise the ripping-up of my team.

If he continues to start (which I'd bet on) and Liverpool's 1-0 and 2-0 results continue (who knows but it's possible), he'll be close enough to Robbo's point totals that I think I'd rather keep the 2m to invest elsewhere.
If I was just picking a dream team for the DGW, of course I wouldn't have him, but as a long-term pick until the next wildcard, he seems like a good choice, someone who doesn't cost tonnes but you can stick in your XI every week regardless of fixture and have a decent expectation of some points.
My transfer value isn't huge, so these savings matter to me. If I was in a different position and had 107m squad value etc, I might not want him.

In summary - he's good for value and for assuredness of starts in doubles, not so good for points ceilings and for blocking off more explosive LIV players.

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Re: Gomez

Post by murf » 13 Jan 2020, 17:08

Zimmerman wrote:
13 Jan 2020, 12:54
Gomez is currently first choice. It’s his position to lose.

Matip hasn’t played for 11 weeks.
Gomez is playing really well.
So we think BUT he definitely was BEHIND Matip and Lovren in the pecking order from late August til they got crocked (Lovren came in ahead of Gomez when Matip got crocked). Has come on a lot in last few weeks - from looking very dodgy whenever he did get game time - but still has a mistake in him (a couple v Spurs).

What does Klopp really think of him? Probably is his position to lose but Matip could well be knocking on the door and will maybe take any opportunity of a Gomez rest / niggle to stake his claim.

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Re: Gomez

Post by Zimmerman » 13 Jan 2020, 17:48

And he was first choice before he got his leg broke (last season). By the time he returned Matip was established AND Gomez was bit rusty (not helped by being used at RB when he was given minutes).

Matip was the better option.

I think the 11 week (and counting) absence will hamper Matip’s claim.

We’re about to embark on 5 games in 14 days... so there will be some rotations (you assume the FA Cup will be an obvious en-masse rest).

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Re: Gomez

Post by murf » 13 Jan 2020, 18:02

At the end of the day we don't know who Klopp fancies most. Since VVD arrived, his partner has always been the player in possession - who has grown into the role and not been dropped (even Lovren!).

Maybe Klopp sees that as Gomez long term or maybe he has concluded he isn't good enough. Either is possible. I think it is his position to lose at the moment (but I also think Matip at his best is better than Gomez with his inexperience. Plus I think Klopp will buy a new CB to challenge / take over in the summer as he isn't 100% sold on Joe)

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Re: Gomez

Post by Zimmerman » 13 Jan 2020, 18:17

Totally disagree :)

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Re: Gomez

Post by Smurphy's Paw » 13 Jan 2020, 22:55

With 6 of Liverpool’s 8 clean sheets coming in the six weeks since Gomez got in the team I’d say he’s ahead of the other two for now.
Any idea when each of Lovren and Matip will be back?

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Re: Gomez

Post by murf » 13 Jan 2020, 23:32

Smurphy's Paw wrote: Any idea when each of Lovren and Matip will be back?
Few quotes on LFC site. Think both in some form of training and could be back this weekend but would expect both to play first in Cup, especially now Nat Phillips has gone back on loan (recalled just for FA Cup 3rd round!).

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Re: Gomez

Post by Zimmerman » 14 Jan 2020, 13:42

Apropos of nothing....

Since signing van Dijk, Liverpool have had 102 CL and PL games

Van Dijk started 97

CB partners in that time
Matip x 38
Lovren x 37
Gomez x 20

He hasn’t played more than 8 games in a row with the same partner

Matip x 8
Matip x 7
Lovren x 7
Lovren x 5
Gomez x 6
Gomez x 5

The six longest sequences managed.

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Re: Gomez

Post by murf » 14 Jan 2020, 13:44

Assumed that was cup rotations breaking the sequences more than injury changes but if only counting CL and PL....

From TFF stats page:
Gomez 8 starts, 7 CSs (will include FA Cup CS)
Matip 7, 2
Lovren 8, 0 (+1 partial CS, presumably when subbed off)

Statistically the answer is "play Gomez"
Last edited by murf on 14 Jan 2020, 13:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gomez

Post by Zimmerman » 14 Jan 2020, 13:49

At the start of 18/19, Gomez started 16/20 games (four of them at RB though). Then he got his ankle broken against Burnley.

Missed 23 games

He was then sub 7 of the last 8 games (and started at RB against Barcelona at the Nou Camp).

19/20
First 22 games, 5 starts (2 at RB).
He’s started the last 5 on the spin at CB

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Re: Gomez

Post by Zimmerman » 14 Jan 2020, 13:51

murf wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 13:44
Assumed that was cup rotations breaking the sequences more than injury changes but if only counting CL and PL....
Injuries for the most part

Gomez injured or not in the squad x 33
Matip x 38
Lovren x 36

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Re: Gomez

Post by murf » 14 Jan 2020, 13:53

Just thought Matip had longer runs (end of 18/19 and start of 19/20 (after early 'rotation'))

-------

Don't think vdBerg and/or Phillips are up to the job yet and with Lovren being touted around last summer I would expect Klopp to be after a new 4th senior CB (whether as first choice or reserve - who knows?)

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Re: Gomez

Post by Stevieste » 14 Jan 2020, 13:57

Matip and Lovren back now Klopp said so will soon see.

TAA could be rested now and Gomez moved to RB again

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Re: Gomez

Post by Zimmerman » 14 Jan 2020, 13:58

There was a run where they played quite a lot together but there was the odd rotation / suspension that stopped a straight run of games for the pair.

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Re: Gomez

Post by Zimmerman » 14 Jan 2020, 14:00

Stevieste wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 13:57
Matip and Lovren back now Klopp said so will soon see.

TAA could be rested now and Gomez moved to RB again
I think there will be the occasional use at RB... but after the busy December, by the time we play United on Sunday most of them have only played the game against Spurs in 16 days.

So time for them to be recharged.

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Re: Gomez

Post by Pirlo's Beard » 14 Jan 2020, 14:10

Ah, Gomez. A role so memorably defined by the great Raul Julia.

Image

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Re: Gomez

Post by murf » 14 Jan 2020, 14:23

Oh, please! No revisionist history from the kiddies on here if you don't mind.

Gomez IS John Astin.

Image

The films are not as bad as many remakes (well the first one anyway, the rest are best not spoken of, ever again) but still lag far, far behind the originals.

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Re: Gomez

Post by Bob Newhart » 14 Jan 2020, 15:44

Image

From4corners
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Re: Gomez

Post by From4corners » 14 Jan 2020, 19:36

murf wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 13:44
Assumed that was cup rotations breaking the sequences more than injury changes but if only counting CL and PL....

From TFF stats page:
Gomez 8 starts, 7 CSs (will include FA Cup CS)
Matip 7, 2
Lovren 8, 0 (+1 partial CS, presumably when subbed off)

Statistically the answer is "play Gomez"
How many of these games featured Adrián in which they didn't keep a clean sheet?

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Re: Gomez

Post by From4corners » 14 Jan 2020, 19:38

Pirlo's Beard wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 14:10
Ah, Gomez. A role so memorably defined by the great Raul Julia.
I liked him better in Street Fighter.

By the way, I seem to miss some accents in his name. Surprising, coming from you. :mrgreen:

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Re: Gomez

Post by Pirlo's Beard » 15 Jan 2020, 01:33

From4corners wrote:
14 Jan 2020, 19:38
By the way, I seem to miss some accents in his name. Surprising, coming from you. :mrgreen:
I Googled it. It seems the non-accented spelling of his name was the predominantly-used version, although having checked his Wikipedia again I see the man himself used the accents in his signature, so I seem to have done Mr. Juliá a disservice!

And yes, he was wonderful in Street Fighter, a movie he wanted to make so his kids could have something to enjoy watching him in, despite being very ill at the time. Wonderful actor, greatly missed.

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Re: Gomez

Post by Resonare » 16 Jan 2020, 14:51

It's a meritocracy and Gomez is performing so he'll likely play. At the start of the season he was in poor form and lost his place, but most reds believe he has earned back his spot and I'm inclined to agree.

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Re: Gomez

Post by Klopp-o-matic » 16 Jan 2020, 17:10

Gomez was first choice before he was injured and also he can play RB to cover for TAA if the latter is in need for a rest or something.

So he's a good pick.

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Re: Gomez

Post by murf » 16 Jan 2020, 17:21

Klopp-o-matic wrote:Gomez was first choice before he was injured and also he can play RB to cover for TAA if the latter is in need for a rest or something.

So he's a good pick.
That was 18 months ago!

He was fully fit in August but Matip got the place. Then when Matip got injured (Octoberish?) Lovren was picked ahead of Gomez.

Yes, Gomez has played well and it is arguably his place to lose but don't be deluded that he is Klopp's favoured CB or that you know what Klopp is thinking on this. I'm not. I don't....

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Re: Gomez

Post by Klopp-o-matic » 23 Jan 2020, 12:34

murf wrote:
16 Jan 2020, 17:21
Klopp-o-matic wrote:Gomez was first choice before he was injured and also he can play RB to cover for TAA if the latter is in need for a rest or something.

So he's a good pick.
That was 18 months ago!

He was fully fit in August but Matip got the place. Then when Matip got injured (Octoberish?) Lovren was picked ahead of Gomez.

Yes, Gomez has played well and it is arguably his place to lose but don't be deluded that he is Klopp's favoured CB or that you know what Klopp is thinking on this. I'm not. I don't....
I transferred him in when he come back to the starting eleven and he's record since then is 5,8,5,8,6,6,6. Good value for 5,2 imo.

If he'll be benched you can transfer him out. But I don't think so. He's the fastest CB available in the squad wich help the team to play with a high defence line. Klopp talked about that in the start of the season, that Liverpool would like to play with an extremely high defensive line now when VAR is introduced. They don't play that aggressive nowadays (because they win anyway all the time) but if they would need to, they can do it and Gomez helps them out with that.

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Re: Gomez

Post by Magic » 23 Jan 2020, 14:50

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