View Latest: 1 Day | FISO Injury Search

Vice captain points

A Fantasy Football forum for news on fantasy football games run by the Premierleague (FPL).
Post Reply
User avatar
Sutter Kane
Dumbledore
Posts: 5760
Joined: 05 Aug 2010, 12:13

Vice captain points

Post by Sutter Kane » 13 Jan 2019, 11:27

Just checked on FPL statistic (anewpla) and I'm wondering what, if anything your VC points tells you about the number of premiums you have to select from - too many or too few. Also the points as a % of actual captain points must tell you something.

I know there was a count up of captain points this season to date: mine sat at 314 (VC 164) including this week: anyone suffering more than that? Now, with a low total captain score as a given:

If my VC points are near to this, am I right in saying a) it's OK cos I have owned the VC who's scored heavily anyway or b) I'm not picking correctly, I should be picking VC more even just on variance. However if my VC are a long way off the captain points am I right in saying a) I'm picking as well as I could, no problem or b) Big problem, VC not even performing either, so my total points for the week are going to be low as I likely didn't even own any big hitting premiums that week.

Is it more/less complicated than I'm making out - e.g. Does anyone garner huge success from just copying the FFS (or FISO) highest poll results each week?

If I can identify the reason that each season (I have been monitoring this for a few seasons now) my captains are failing due to my squad setup, then I can maybe do something to rectify e.g. just stick it on a poll leader, or keep it on Salah and reduce my number of premiums as they won't represent value, etc. Before anyone points it out, it is a post based on frustration, but that frustration has been boiling for a long time now... :lol:

User avatar
Zimmerman
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 29227
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
Location: having a picnic at the Bear Mountain

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Zimmerman » 13 Jan 2019, 19:21

So has your captain(s) scored 157 (doubled)?

User avatar
Zimmerman
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 29227
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
Location: having a picnic at the Bear Mountain

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Zimmerman » 13 Jan 2019, 19:26

My captain (coincidently) scored 157 and my vice a mere 117.

But I’m doing terribly. So even if I’ve got my captian picks right... it probably says more about my poor team.

So maybe that gives you some form of answer about your own situation. The fact your in a position whereby you have a VC outscoring your C, it’s not necessarily a negative.

User avatar
Joccki_10
Grumpy Old Joker
Posts: 7966
Joined: 26 Dec 2015, 11:20
FS Record: 16/17: 55 OR, 1 FISO Forum, 1 NLD and FISO Cup Winner

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Joccki_10 » 13 Jan 2019, 20:03

Captain: 166
Vice: 151

User avatar
Sutter Kane
Dumbledore
Posts: 5760
Joined: 05 Aug 2010, 12:13

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Sutter Kane » 13 Jan 2019, 21:32

Yes 157 doubled for me. I think that's pretty awful. Was just thinking that almost always picking Salah captain does allow other decisions to be made irrelevant of thinking about captain choice and more about value. There's so many variables to consider but when I look at a lot of the people around me (and in the top 10k), they are over 100 points ahead in terms of captains, which is well...quite annoying. Captaincy has a fair amount of volatility attached to it so perhaps reducing that is more advantageous for some people than others.

User avatar
reds363
Dumbledore
Posts: 5875
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:34
FS Record: FPL 28th 06/07; TFFO 3rd 09/10; TFF 3rd 12/13

Re: Vice captain points

Post by reds363 » 13 Jan 2019, 22:37

C 188
V 146

20 vs 35 over the last three weeks

User avatar
Chinese Whisperer
Treebeard
Posts: 216
Joined: 17 Aug 2011, 08:40
Location: SHEFFIELD

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Chinese Whisperer » 14 Jan 2019, 00:00

Comparing the difference between your total (C) points and the total points you could have earned through captaining your best scoring player each week is another method of assessing your ability for making the right captain choices 😉.

User avatar
Zimmerman
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 29227
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
Location: having a picnic at the Bear Mountain

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Zimmerman » 14 Jan 2019, 07:43

That’s a tricky path to go down.
Effectively you are comparing your captain choice with 10 others. Realistically, I’m not going to captain Wan Bissaka.

Similarly, if I captian Aguero for a home game against someone but Maddison outscores him that’s not bad judgement (IMO).

User avatar
Zimmerman
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 29227
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
Location: having a picnic at the Bear Mountain

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Zimmerman » 14 Jan 2019, 07:46

Sutter - whilst you might not be happy with your captain score (you shouldn’t be if it’s the same mine 😂) it’s counterproductive to look at those ahead of you.

Are they ahead in the captain stakes because of inspired captain choices... or are they ahead because they are cavalier (and lucky)? How many are cavalier (and stupid)? It’s a self-fulfilling theory to look at the successful teams and retro-fit their decisions.

User avatar
Bixer
FISOhead
Posts: 519
Joined: 14 Dec 2015, 09:37

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Bixer » 14 Jan 2019, 11:33

Points scored by both so far:

Captains: 144
Vices: 133

Pretty close.

I've had 7 captain blanks so far this season (3 points or less), but 5 of those have come in the last 6 GWs...

User avatar
Stevieste
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 1608
Joined: 19 Aug 2017, 10:28
FS Record: 1500

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Stevieste » 14 Jan 2019, 12:09

Whats the easiet way to find out your totals without going through week to week with my calculator :lol:

User avatar
MoSe
Dumbledore
Posts: 9171
Joined: 10 Sep 2014, 12:25
Location: next door S.Siro stadium
FS Record: FISODAS CUP Winner Season 25
FISO H2H Winner: 15/16 Div2 - 16/17 Div1
FISO Mirror: 16/17 PL Winner

Re: Vice captain points

Post by MoSe » 14 Jan 2019, 13:41

I agree with both Zimmerman comments

FPL Statistico is imho rather circuitous on the matter, calling/highligting same things in different ways
https://www.anewpla.net/fpl/report-test ... tatSection
I prefer to summarise my data this way
FPL 18-19 Captaincy - MoSe gw21 - Summary.gif
I didn't start bad, but got worse recently
my C added pts end to be generally bad so far, the worst posted here I reckon

at the bottom of the Captaincy box, FPL Statistico reports your C scores (doubled) for each GW
the blue ones (cold) should be when your VC outscored your C (?), but I think he messes it counting Doubled C vs non-doubled VC

My C vs VC totals are similar, but when you break them down, you see
>
FPL 18-19 Captaincy - MoSe gw21 - by GW.gif
     9 times my C outscored my VC, by +61p (almost 7p/gw)
     1 time my C did not play (Martial), and the VC got doubled (Auba 8p), those points are counted in the C total
   11 times my VC outscored the C, and I'd have gained +63p. But in 4 times I lost a lot (48p, 12p/gw)), the remaining 15p VC loss spread over 7gw (2p/gw)
so only 1 time in 5 I lost a lot by choosing the wrong C vs VC, the other times I got it right or lost a little

My highest scoring players every gw outscored my captain choices by 129p
8 times tho my best (C|VC) was also the highest scorer (4C, 4VC)
13 times my High outscored (C|VC), but 9 times they were defenders (or Gudmundsson), who as Zim said I'd have hardly captained
   in 5 gws I'd have gained 7+p by choosing the (improbable) highest, tallying 42p or 8.4p/gw
   in 8 gws I'd have gained 5-p, not that great difference, tallying 24p or 3p/gw
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

The Royal BlueNose
FISOhead
Posts: 833
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 20:02
Location: Walsall, West Midlands
FS Record: Average at best!

Re: Vice captain points

Post by The Royal BlueNose » 14 Jan 2019, 14:56

This is some interesting data...

C: 254
VC: 132

So not far off double but I have Aguero to play tonight and I doubt he will outscore Salah's 11.

Football Hero
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 1093
Joined: 19 Aug 2014, 14:05

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Football Hero » 14 Jan 2019, 15:00

Sutter Kane wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 21:32
Yes 157 doubled for me. I think that's pretty awful. Was just thinking that almost always picking Salah captain does allow other decisions to be made irrelevant of thinking about captain choice and more about value. There's so many variables to consider but when I look at a lot of the people around me (and in the top 10k), they are over 100 points ahead in terms of captains, which is well...quite annoying. Captaincy has a fair amount of volatility attached to it so perhaps reducing that is more advantageous for some people than others.
This is the wrong way to look at it imo.

For example, if the top 10k do have 100 points more than your 157 points so far, then this means that they have scored 257/22 = 11.7 points per game with their captains, and this amount you can not possibly hope to get long term when the best player, (Salah), scores about 9ppg. Therefore they can only have this type of average through luck and variance, (which is always the case with the people at the top each season, they always run hot with their captains and normal players too).

To be honest, it seems like the best strategy at the moment is captaining Salah about 87% of the time, and then the likes of Kane/Auba/Aguero occasionally the other 13% of the time if Salah is away against the big 6. This is because his current ppg from the last season and a half is a good 1.5+ppg clear of the next best alternatives and only severe fixture-difficulty swings would give Salah a lower ppg than the second best options in any given week.

However this is only really clear now, early in the season Salah looked like he was dipping a bit and had perhaps over-achieved last season, so it's only in hindsight that this looks like the obvious strategy.

I think I read somewhere that we should be looking at around 8ppg long term from our captains, with the implication that we are captaining many 6.5ppg - 7.0ppg players in favourable fixtures each week over that long time period. During periods where there is a player like Salah about however, we should be able to do better than 8ppg over that particular sub-time frame.

User avatar
Joccki_10
Grumpy Old Joker
Posts: 7966
Joined: 26 Dec 2015, 11:20
FS Record: 16/17: 55 OR, 1 FISO Forum, 1 NLD and FISO Cup Winner

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Joccki_10 » 14 Jan 2019, 15:17

The Royal BlueNose wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 14:56
This is some interesting data...

C: 254
VC: 132
Averaging 11,55 points for captaincy is ridiculously good.

User avatar
Sutter Kane
Dumbledore
Posts: 5760
Joined: 05 Aug 2010, 12:13

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Sutter Kane » 14 Jan 2019, 15:30

Football Hero wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 15:00
Sutter Kane wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 21:32
Yes 157 doubled for me. I think that's pretty awful.
This is the wrong way to look at it imo.

For example, if the top 10k do have 100 points more than your 157 points so far, then this means that they have scored 257/22 = 11.7 points per game with their captains, and this amount you can not possibly hope to get long term when the best player, (Salah), scores about 9ppg. Therefore they can only have this type of average through luck and variance, (which is always the case with the people at the top each season, they always run hot with their captains and normal players too).
It's 100 after doubling, not before. 100 points is an enormous deficit to try and make up - when you're captaining premiums with decent fixtures like we all do (pretty much) every week and people are beating you by around 2.3points doubled to 4.6 every week, that's not haphazardness, there's something in that, especially when you assess over multiple seasons. I'd like to know what that is, as I (as many do) captain players near or top of the captain polls every week. Unsure if I'm too fixated with fixture and not paying enough attention to form, or not sticking enough with Salah, or etc...

Joccki_10 wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 15:17
The Royal BlueNose wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 14:56
This is some interesting data...

C: 254
VC: 132
Averaging 11,55 points for captaincy is ridiculously good.
Must be 254 after captaining not before, surely.

User avatar
MoSe
Dumbledore
Posts: 9171
Joined: 10 Sep 2014, 12:25
Location: next door S.Siro stadium
FS Record: FISODAS CUP Winner Season 25
FISO H2H Winner: 15/16 Div2 - 16/17 Div1
FISO Mirror: 16/17 PL Winner

Re: Vice captain points

Post by MoSe » 14 Jan 2019, 15:32

Joccki_10 wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 15:17
The Royal BlueNose wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 14:56
This is some interesting data...

C: 254
VC: 132
Averaging 11,55 points for captaincy is ridiculously good.
not sure if tongue in cheek, but of course the C: 254 FPL Statistico figure means that TRBN Captains scored 127p, doubled to 254

comparable to mine :mrgreen:

User avatar
MoSe
Dumbledore
Posts: 9171
Joined: 10 Sep 2014, 12:25
Location: next door S.Siro stadium
FS Record: FISODAS CUP Winner Season 25
FISO H2H Winner: 15/16 Div2 - 16/17 Div1
FISO Mirror: 16/17 PL Winner

Re: Vice captain points

Post by MoSe » 14 Jan 2019, 15:39

reds363 wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 22:37
C 188
V 146

20 vs 35 over the last three weeks
reds plz, update your FPL Button or remove it altogether, thx :)

remarkable 188 doubled (including GW22)

Football Hero
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 1093
Joined: 19 Aug 2014, 14:05

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Football Hero » 14 Jan 2019, 15:45

Miss-post due to messing up the quotes. :D
Last edited by Football Hero on 14 Jan 2019, 15:48, edited 2 times in total.

Football Hero
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 1093
Joined: 19 Aug 2014, 14:05

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Football Hero » 14 Jan 2019, 15:46

Sutter Kane wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 15:30
Football Hero wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 15:00
Sutter Kane wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 21:32
Yes 157 doubled for me. I think that's pretty awful.
This is the wrong way to look at it imo.

For example, if the top 10k do have 100 points more than your 157 points so far, then this means that they have scored 257/22 = 11.7 points per game with their captains, and this amount you can not possibly hope to get long term when the best player, (Salah), scores about 9ppg. Therefore they can only have this type of average through luck and variance, (which is always the case with the people at the top each season, they always run hot with their captains and normal players too).
It's 100 after doubling, not before. 100 points is an enormous deficit to try and make up - when you're captaining premiums with decent fixtures like we all do (pretty much) every week and people are beating you by around 2.3points doubled to 4.6 every week, that's not haphazardness, there's something in that, especially when you assess over multiple seasons. I'd like to know what that is, as I (as many do) captain players near or top of the captain polls every week. Unsure if I'm too fixated with fixture and not paying enough attention to form, or not sticking enough with Salah, or etc...

No there's not. Check what all of these managers in the top 10k now, are getting in subsequent seasons and you will see that they will have long stretches of captaining good players that end up only giving them 6ppg across that period to balance the long term averages out. There is nothing these particular managers can do to outperform the long term averages of the fpl players that they are captaining, it just takes ages for things to even out, like maybe 500 gameweeks or so, not exactly sure but it will be a lot for things to even out so that mostly skill edge discriminates between points totals and the luck element is mostly eliminated.

User avatar
MoSe
Dumbledore
Posts: 9171
Joined: 10 Sep 2014, 12:25
Location: next door S.Siro stadium
FS Record: FISODAS CUP Winner Season 25
FISO H2H Winner: 15/16 Div2 - 16/17 Div1
FISO Mirror: 16/17 PL Winner

Re: Vice captain points

Post by MoSe » 14 Jan 2019, 15:49

Sutter Kane wrote:
13 Jan 2019, 21:32
Yes 157 doubled for me. I think that's pretty awful.
...when I look at a lot of the people around me (and in the top 10k), they are over 100 points ahead in terms of captains, which is well...quite annoying.
excuse me, was that just an "eye assessment" by "random" sampling, or did you find some consolidated season Captaincy figures for top 10k?

FFFix has it for single GW, not season
FPL Statistico shows it for single teams, not top 10 (afaik)
couldn't find Season Captaincy stats in FPLD either...

User avatar
Sutter Kane
Dumbledore
Posts: 5760
Joined: 05 Aug 2010, 12:13

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Sutter Kane » 14 Jan 2019, 17:21

It was through everyone I seem to check upon! I am scavenging to find lower, unless one is captaining the likes of Rondon or playing a game with constraints (such as the want to enjoy the game which is a rank killer I'll tell you). Ruth also did a thread (or Dod) and some of the scores there were very high, much higher than mine (Ruth will confirm as his was similar to mine). I'm not saying 157 is below average but then given 80% of FPL are either not even playing any more or spend 5 minutes on a Friday checking their teams, the average is, well pointless. I can't survey everyone so I came to the conclusion based on a smallish sample of others around my rank. And nothing so far is really making me think I'm doing well from captains. If it was the one thing that could make a huge difference to rank each season, wouldn't anyone want to try and see if there was a way to gain say 30-100 points more? Unless FH is right and it's all just variance that takes too long to stabilise. To be honest, even if 157 was above average for top 10k, I'd still be 'interested' to know what others have done to record their 400 odd scores. Yes there are plenty on fiso, just can't remember who they are now! (do they use polls, just pretty much leave it on Salah (because of his underlying stats) except for huge opportunities elsewhere or if he's playing top6, rely solely on the eye test, or something else. And does it work most seasons because what I'm doing fails most seasons?

User avatar
Spreadsheet
Treebeard
Posts: 288
Joined: 19 Jul 2009, 17:36
Location: Leicester
FS Record: Mini League Maestro - 5 wins and 2 Runners Up in 8 years. Never made it on the biggest stage though. I'm the DT David Bentley.

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Spreadsheet » 14 Jan 2019, 21:24

Interesting food for thought. Mine currently stands at (including this GW22 as I am spent before tonight's game):

C: 202 doubled to 404
V: 116

Entirely down to who I have in my team each week (i.e. transfers made) but 20 mins furtling has told me that I've managed to pick the right way around between my C and V in 16 out of 22 weeks (73%).

But, if extended to the top scorer in my team each GW, then I have picked the right C only 8/22 weeks (36%). This extends to 10/22 weeks (46%) if I had at least identified my top scorer in the GW as either C or V. However, as Zimmerman said, of the other 14 weeks I didn't get the C right, there are many weeks where a slightly unfancied player, like a GK, defender or Snodgrass, outscored my C and VC, so this might be more par for the course and it may not be more optimal to try too hard to predict when the random players shine (certainly, picking the right C almost three quarters of the time from the premium players appears to suggest a stronger strategy?).

Not really sure what this data is telling me: whether the above is good/bad, whether I have just been lucky and a downturn is imminent, whether I have been better at picking the right Cs from a poorer squad/transfers, or actually whether the stats above are poor in comparison to other players - I am not aware of any baseline analysis already done (first season on this side of the forum) on past winners/high performers.

The Royal BlueNose
FISOhead
Posts: 833
Joined: 26 Dec 2009, 20:02
Location: Walsall, West Midlands
FS Record: Average at best!

Re: Vice captain points

Post by The Royal BlueNose » 14 Jan 2019, 21:59

Joccki_10 wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 15:17
The Royal BlueNose wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 14:56
This is some interesting data...

C: 254
VC: 132
Averaging 11,55 points for captaincy is ridiculously good.
Ignore me - I got a bit too excited and didn't check that was the case :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

User avatar
reds363
Dumbledore
Posts: 5875
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:34
FS Record: FPL 28th 06/07; TFFO 3rd 09/10; TFF 3rd 12/13

Re: Vice captain points

Post by reds363 » 15 Jan 2019, 01:12

MoSe wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 15:39
reds plz, update your FPL Button or remove it altogether, thx :)

remarkable 188 doubled (including GW22)
Done

Mostly helped by an 8-week run (GW10-17) where I hit 91 points of a squad-max 95

User avatar
Sutter Kane
Dumbledore
Posts: 5760
Joined: 05 Aug 2010, 12:13

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Sutter Kane » 15 Jan 2019, 16:25

There's a couple of monster captain scores just there, 188 and 202.

Been to check some of the scores of managers on FFS top 10 as those guys won't take any risks with their captaincy but at the same time aren't superhuman, some perhaps go with poll results??
Total doubled captain score followed by current rank in brackets:
Grant Barclay 348 (41482), Matthew Jones 320 (5863), Marlen Rattiner 312 (2796), Owen Walker 344 (175991), Richard Clarke 314 (40466), Paul Gee 374 (55549), Lester Cheng 294 (412430), Jay Egersdorff 294 (359606), Ville Ronke 376 (8386). Also, our own consistent Stemania 408 (614!) and FFSs 'eratic' Mark Sutherns 404 (6294).

Not sure whether there's anything really to learn and that FH may be correct. I do find it very tough to reconcile a 90 point deficit in such a short span as 22 gameweeks though - that's basically a season definer that one can't really do a lot about which is a bit frustrating? What I would say is that anything around 300 looks like pants as I suspected and perhaps 350ish is the average. (8ppg)

User avatar
Joccki_10
Grumpy Old Joker
Posts: 7966
Joined: 26 Dec 2015, 11:20
FS Record: 16/17: 55 OR, 1 FISO Forum, 1 NLD and FISO Cup Winner

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Joccki_10 » 15 Jan 2019, 16:57

My 332 looks pretty average compared to those although I really feel I’ve done a bad job there. Add 50 - yes, that’s a lot - and I’m in the top 100. 408 from Stemania is amazing though.

User avatar
Pirlo's Beard
Dumbledore
Posts: 9849
Joined: 21 Aug 2013, 17:48

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Pirlo's Beard » 15 Jan 2019, 18:00

Joccki_10 wrote:
15 Jan 2019, 16:57
408 from Stemania and Pirlo's Beard is amazing though.
Fixed that for you. :wink:

User avatar
Joccki_10
Grumpy Old Joker
Posts: 7966
Joined: 26 Dec 2015, 11:20
FS Record: 16/17: 55 OR, 1 FISO Forum, 1 NLD and FISO Cup Winner

Re: Vice captain points

Post by Joccki_10 » 15 Jan 2019, 18:06

Pirlo's Beard wrote:
15 Jan 2019, 18:00
Joccki_10 wrote:
15 Jan 2019, 16:57
408 from Stemania and Pirlo's Beard is amazing though.
Fixed that for you. :wink:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

User avatar
MoSe
Dumbledore
Posts: 9171
Joined: 10 Sep 2014, 12:25
Location: next door S.Siro stadium
FS Record: FISODAS CUP Winner Season 25
FISO H2H Winner: 15/16 Div2 - 16/17 Div1
FISO Mirror: 16/17 PL Winner

Re: Vice captain points

Post by MoSe » 16 Jan 2019, 04:45

Hmmm....
If you picked a Player from Miami FC in your Fantasy American Soccer, would he be your
Miami Vice Captain

View Latest: 1 Day View Your posts
Post Reply

Return to “Fantasy PremierLeague.com (FPL)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: berzosamp, Bixer, Dantheman236, DAREEL, Deneuve, EastvilleIMP, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], GrapeshotCrawler, huskerdu, Jamtart, jv95, martin, marty-mcfly, mikeg13, no eye deer, Oxford NZ, Resonare, Stormrider, Tye86 and 71 guests