View Latest: 1 Day | FISO Injury Search

EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance] - Poll: Will we leave???

A forum for general discussion on News & Politics issues and topics
Post Reply

Will the UK leave on Halloween?

Poll runs till 16 Sep 2019, 08:56

Yes with the May deal
1
2%
Yes with a Boris deal
4
9%
Yes with no deal
13
28%
No there will be a further extension
21
46%
No Article 50 will be revoked
7
15%
 
Total votes: 46

Striker
FISO Knight
Posts: 10690
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by Striker » 12 May 2019, 13:59

Interesting how Farage's main tactics this morning were to talk loudly and deny his past record, and whenever Marr produced footage which exposed his denial as a lie, shouted about why did Marr keep harping back to the past as it's the present that matters.

Although he could be seen by well informed voters of all persuasions as an opportunistic liar, he is unfortunately a brilliant populist, and probably knee jerk Brexit supporters lapped up his performance this morning as giving Marr a good beating.

User avatar
Tacalabala
FISO Knight
Posts: 18999
Joined: 07 Sep 2008, 01:03

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by Tacalabala » 12 May 2019, 15:07

Striker wrote:
12 May 2019, 13:59
Interesting how Farage's main tactics this morning were to talk loudly and deny his past record, and whenever Marr produced footage which exposed his denial as a lie, shouted about why did Marr keep harping back to the past as it's the present that matters.

Although he could be seen by well informed voters of all persuasions as an opportunistic liar, he is unfortunately a brilliant populist, and probably knee jerk Brexit supporters lapped up his performance this morning as giving Marr a good beating.
He is unfit to hold office.

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 16557
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by forestfan » 12 May 2019, 17:05

Tacalabala wrote:
12 May 2019, 15:07
Striker wrote:
12 May 2019, 13:59
Interesting how Farage's main tactics this morning were to talk loudly and deny his past record, and whenever Marr produced footage which exposed his denial as a lie, shouted about why did Marr keep harping back to the past as it's the present that matters.

Although he could be seen by well informed voters of all persuasions as an opportunistic liar, he is unfortunately a brilliant populist, and probably knee jerk Brexit supporters lapped up his performance this morning as giving Marr a good beating.
He is unfit to hold office.
He’s not alone there among our highest profile politicians... the concern is that he could become the UK Trump, whether he actually has designs on it or not. As Marr said, if the Tories and Labour both implode then something has to fill the void, and it’s likely to be the far right in some form or other, and more likely the populist Farage type than the overtly racist sort.

User avatar
murf
FISO Baron
Posts: 90163
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: Up in the Highlands doing a Christoper Lambert impression with zombies (see my WWW/FPL links)
FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
Contact:

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by murf » 12 May 2019, 21:47

Farage cannot gain any real power and his (non Brexit) views are irrelevant. He is just a good rallying post for many who want to leave.

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 16557
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by forestfan » 12 May 2019, 22:14

murf wrote:
12 May 2019, 21:47
Farage cannot gain any real power and his (non Brexit) views are irrelevant. He is just a good rallying post for many who want to leave.
He could be the last man standing if the main parties implode, though. Stranger things have happened in world politics in the last decade.

User avatar
Tacalabala
FISO Knight
Posts: 18999
Joined: 07 Sep 2008, 01:03

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by Tacalabala » 12 May 2019, 22:21

forestfan wrote:
12 May 2019, 22:14
murf wrote:
12 May 2019, 21:47
Farage cannot gain any real power and his (non Brexit) views are irrelevant. He is just a good rallying post for many who want to leave.
He could be the last man standing if the main parties implode, though. Stranger things have happened in world politics in the last decade.
I think he'd be 'prevented' from outright winning, not that I can ever see it being even a remote possibility - I think you'd see sensible people mobilising to get some sort of workable clean result. It's the EU's fault for insisting on outright PR in the Euro elections without qualification.

User avatar
Surprised
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 25556
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
Location: Home
FS Record: TFFOSM MotW in 2008 and MotM in 2003. 78th overall in TFFO for 2002/3 and 2003/4

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by Surprised » 13 May 2019, 10:23

Fraudage only ever gets success in EU elections and wants to claim a seat at the negotiating table despite saying MEPs have no influence. Does he know how transparent his lies are?

Striker
FISO Knight
Posts: 10690
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by Striker » 13 May 2019, 18:02

Surprised wrote:
13 May 2019, 10:23
Does he know how transparent his lies are?
Of course he does. Whatever criticisms one can legitimately throw at Farage, being a fool isn't one of them. He is of the school that you should repeat something as often as possible so it becomes true. If you are met by reasoned criticism either try to dominate the discussion, simply shout the opponent down, or use another diversionary tactic such as changing the subject or falsely criticising his opponent for anything which will appeal to his supporters. I despise Farage for his misguided policy, his hypocrisy, his lies, his spoiling tactics when an opponent makes a winning point, etc but he knows what he is doing. Spirits behind closed doors, pints in public.

User avatar
nffc
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 2969
Joined: 11 Sep 2006, 12:45

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by nffc » 14 May 2019, 19:17

murf wrote:
12 May 2019, 21:47
Farage cannot gain any real power and his (non Brexit) views are irrelevant. He is just a good rallying post for many who want to leave.
I would never vote for his party in a General Election. But I and many others will definitely vote for them next week just to make a point to Westminster and all the remain voters that think the way people voted can be ignored and brexit cancelled.
He is a way to protest about Westminster in an otherwise meaningless vote and nothing else

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 69532
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
Contact:

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by blahblah » 14 May 2019, 19:31

nffc wrote:
14 May 2019, 19:17
murf wrote:
12 May 2019, 21:47
Farage cannot gain any real power and his (non Brexit) views are irrelevant. He is just a good rallying post for many who want to leave.
I would never vote for his party in a General Election. But I and many others will definitely vote for them next week just to make a point to Westminster and all the remain voters that think the way people voted can be ignored and brexit cancelled.
He is a way to protest about Westminster in an otherwise meaningless vote and nothing else
But for you what was it for it to be cancelled?

He was on BBC News this evening with no border, and a Free Trade Deal with the EU. There is some clause which allows this, but only for a short period of time, and I know nothing about Trade Deals with others during that time, but I assume nothing can be auctioned until afterwards when a border will be needed as the effective EU border moves from where it is now to Ireland....

User avatar
jacksosi
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 3600
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
FS Record: TFF : 87th 06/07 ; FPL 1401st 08/09 ; hiding since...

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by jacksosi » 14 May 2019, 19:35

blahblah wrote:
But for you what was it for it to be cancelled?
Pardon? Image


Brexit party time Image

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 69532
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
Contact:

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by blahblah » 14 May 2019, 19:37

jacksosi wrote:
14 May 2019, 19:35
blahblah wrote:
But for you what was it for it to be cancelled?
Pardon? Image


Brexit party time Image
Image isn't showing...

User avatar
jacksosi
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 3600
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
FS Record: TFF : 87th 06/07 ; FPL 1401st 08/09 ; hiding since...

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by jacksosi » 14 May 2019, 19:52

blahblah wrote:
jacksosi wrote:
14 May 2019, 19:35
blahblah wrote:
But for you what was it for it to be cancelled?
Pardon? Image


Brexit party time Image
Image isn't showing...
There isn’t an image? Possibly my Tapatalk emoji got lost (smiley face) Image

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 69532
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
Contact:

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by blahblah » 14 May 2019, 19:55

jacksosi wrote:
14 May 2019, 19:52
blahblah wrote:
jacksosi wrote:
14 May 2019, 19:35
blahblah wrote:
But for you what was it for it to be cancelled?
Pardon? Image


Brexit party time Image
Image isn't showing...
There isn’t an image? Possibly my Tapatalk emoji got lost (smiley face) Image
Ah... I thought it was going to define Brexit for me :wink:

User avatar
Surprised
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 25556
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
Location: Home
FS Record: TFFOSM MotW in 2008 and MotM in 2003. 78th overall in TFFO for 2002/3 and 2003/4

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by Surprised » 14 May 2019, 21:27

blahblah wrote:
14 May 2019, 19:31
nffc wrote:
14 May 2019, 19:17
murf wrote:
12 May 2019, 21:47
Farage cannot gain any real power and his (non Brexit) views are irrelevant. He is just a good rallying post for many who want to leave.
I would never vote for his party in a General Election. But I and many others will definitely vote for them next week just to make a point to Westminster and all the remain voters that think the way people voted can be ignored and brexit cancelled.
He is a way to protest about Westminster in an otherwise meaningless vote and nothing else
But for you what was it for it to be cancelled?

He was on BBC News this evening with no border, and a Free Trade Deal with the EU. There is some clause which allows this, but only for a short period of time, and I know nothing about Trade Deals with others during that time, but I assume nothing can be auctioned until afterwards when a border will be needed as the effective EU border moves from where it is now to Ireland....
There is no clause that allows it. That is a lie by Fraudage and Rees-Mogg.

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 69532
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
Contact:

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by blahblah » 14 May 2019, 21:32

The Welsh bod let him get away with it then and other stuff ....

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 16557
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by forestfan » 14 May 2019, 22:15

Surprised wrote:
14 May 2019, 21:27
blahblah wrote:
14 May 2019, 19:31
nffc wrote:
14 May 2019, 19:17
murf wrote:
12 May 2019, 21:47
Farage cannot gain any real power and his (non Brexit) views are irrelevant. He is just a good rallying post for many who want to leave.
I would never vote for his party in a General Election. But I and many others will definitely vote for them next week just to make a point to Westminster and all the remain voters that think the way people voted can be ignored and brexit cancelled.
He is a way to protest about Westminster in an otherwise meaningless vote and nothing else
But for you what was it for it to be cancelled?

He was on BBC News this evening with no border, and a Free Trade Deal with the EU. There is some clause which allows this, but only for a short period of time, and I know nothing about Trade Deals with others during that time, but I assume nothing can be auctioned until afterwards when a border will be needed as the effective EU border moves from where it is now to Ireland....
There is no clause that allows it. That is a lie by Fraudage and Rees-Mogg.
The Santa Clause, about as believable :wink:

User avatar
fancy dan
Grumpy Old Dan
Posts: 3851
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Having a secret meeting in the basement of my brain
FS Record: Winner of S4's big WC prediction game - and 2-time winner of the Premier League A game!

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by fancy dan » 16 May 2019, 16:30

forestfan wrote:
14 May 2019, 22:15
Surprised wrote:
14 May 2019, 21:27
blahblah wrote:
14 May 2019, 19:31
nffc wrote:
14 May 2019, 19:17
murf wrote:
12 May 2019, 21:47
Farage cannot gain any real power and his (non Brexit) views are irrelevant. He is just a good rallying post for many who want to leave.
I would never vote for his party in a General Election. But I and many others will definitely vote for them next week just to make a point to Westminster and all the remain voters that think the way people voted can be ignored and brexit cancelled.
He is a way to protest about Westminster in an otherwise meaningless vote and nothing else
But for you what was it for it to be cancelled?

He was on BBC News this evening with no border, and a Free Trade Deal with the EU. There is some clause which allows this, but only for a short period of time, and I know nothing about Trade Deals with others during that time, but I assume nothing can be auctioned until afterwards when a border will be needed as the effective EU border moves from where it is now to Ireland....
There is no clause that allows it. That is a lie by Fraudage and Rees-Mogg.
The Santa Clause, about as believable :wink:
The whole 'we want a free trade deal, not this deal' is (probably deliberately) missing the point. This is the Withdrawal Agreement, it precedes any negotiations on trade. If we leave without signing the WA and go through the chaos of no-deal, then approach the EU asking for a Free Trade Deal, they'll say 'first, let's talk about what you owe us, citizens' rights and the Irish border.' ie back to square one - except we'd be in a position of abject desperation.

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 16557
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by forestfan » 16 May 2019, 16:43

Exactly, yet Farage and co. still think the EU27 are the ones who would be desperate.

What would result, under a hard right Tory/TBP government, would be a stand-off where both sides refused to budge, even if the result was a plunging pound, shortages and chaos in Northern Ireland. It would probably continue until the government fell, and potentially ruin relations for decades to come.

User avatar
Billy Whiz
Rhubarb Crumbledore
Posts: 7112
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
Location: Cloud cuckoo land

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by Billy Whiz » 16 May 2019, 22:24

The Withdrawal Agreement has taken two years to negotiate with the EU, who have said it's final, no more changes or amendments. So what is the point of May and Corbyn trying to come to an agreement on what changes or amendments they want? (To say nothing of the fact that whatever they come up with will be voted down by Parliament.) It's farcical.

User avatar
jimmy ching
Dumbledore
Posts: 7712
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by jimmy ching » 16 May 2019, 22:53

Here in France, we have the
‘I didn’t know he was standing’ law.
All the local Marie’s must provide publicity space for all those that are standing, in the main public square. We have a problem with the amount of parties that are standing. It’s in the 20’s. Obviously it depends where you live but here we had a mini-crisis. The local joiners and carpenters had to get together to built the extra frames for the party publicity.
First poster was up tonight. Just one. It was the Frexit party. It looks like this bunch are organised. I noticed they posted it on the metal frames , clever move, because wood burns. If you are in to the EU, it’s time to pull your finger out.

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 16557
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by forestfan » 17 May 2019, 00:19

Billy Whiz wrote:
16 May 2019, 22:24
The Withdrawal Agreement has taken two years to negotiate with the EU, who have said it's final, no more changes or amendments. So what is the point of May and Corbyn trying to come to an agreement on what changes or amendments they want? (To say nothing of the fact that whatever they come up with will be voted down by Parliament.) It's farcical.
May and Corbyn aren’t proposing reopening the WA, it would be changes to the accompanying political declaration, which is more flexible. However, a new Tory PM would probably reverse any such agreement and try and change the WA as well.

User avatar
Billy Whiz
Rhubarb Crumbledore
Posts: 7112
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
Location: Cloud cuckoo land

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by Billy Whiz » 17 May 2019, 11:38

I thought the point of the cross-party discussions was to come up with a WA proposal that could get through Parliament? If it's not, then putting an unchanged WA agreement to Parliament for a fourth time is even more pointless.

Meanwhile I fear that Boris Johnson will be PM by the end of the summer at the latest, which means we'll almost certainly leave the EU without a deal.

User avatar
DavidLloydIsAHero
Red & Blue Braces
Posts: 427
Joined: 02 Aug 2018, 09:07
FS Record: 2014/15 1757th FPL
Formerly David Luiz Is A Hero

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by DavidLloydIsAHero » 17 May 2019, 11:54

No it was to propose a direction to go towards after a WA was passed. If Labour could get what they wanted (i.e. a Customs union) then they would vote the WA through but there was no way May could give them what they were asking for and even if she did, the next Tory PM would just ignore it.

I don't think Labour (frontbench) have many objections to the WA, their issue is that it is so vague towards the future relationship that to vote for it would give a future Hard Brexiteer free reign to do what they wanted and we would already be out.

User avatar
fancy dan
Grumpy Old Dan
Posts: 3851
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Having a secret meeting in the basement of my brain
FS Record: Winner of S4's big WC prediction game - and 2-time winner of the Premier League A game!

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by fancy dan » 17 May 2019, 13:48

Yes, it's changes to the 'political declaration' that outlines the future relationship, and is currently so vague as to allow for just about anything, as I understand it. I think the PD is attached to the WA, they've certainly been voting on both together so far (except for the last vote, when they detached the PD).

In essence, the Withdrawal Agreement applies no matter what form of future relationship we decide to go for - it just covers financial obligations, citizens' rights, the Irish border and transition - but the PD is absolutely integral to it because that indicates how likely it is that the backstop would ever come into effect.

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 69532
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
Contact:

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by blahblah » 17 May 2019, 14:33

fancy dan wrote:
17 May 2019, 13:48
Yes, it's changes to the 'political declaration' that outlines the future relationship, and is currently so vague as to allow for just about anything, as I understand it. I think the PD is attached to the WA, they've certainly been voting on both together so far (except for the last vote, when they detached the PD).

In essence, the Withdrawal Agreement applies no matter what form of future relationship we decide to go for - it just covers financial obligations, citizens' rights, the Irish border and transition - but the PD is absolutely integral to it because that indicates how likely it is that the backstop would ever come into effect.
Stop typing sense :wink:

User avatar
Billy Whiz
Rhubarb Crumbledore
Posts: 7112
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
Location: Cloud cuckoo land

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by Billy Whiz » 17 May 2019, 14:41

It all sounds like something Franz Kafka would have dreamt up

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Baron
Posts: 69532
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.
Contact:

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by blahblah » 17 May 2019, 15:10

Billy Whiz wrote:
17 May 2019, 14:41
It all sounds like something Franz Kafka would have dreamt up
Only if he had LSD.....

It is actually very simple, but the political machinations are quite mind-blowing. How low the percentage vote for Lab and Cons in the Euros will be hilarious yet probably have them disappear even further up their.....

It is looking like we are heading for a political vacuum and a worse mess than MU.

User avatar
fancy dan
Grumpy Old Dan
Posts: 3851
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Having a secret meeting in the basement of my brain
FS Record: Winner of S4's big WC prediction game - and 2-time winner of the Premier League A game!

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance]

Post by fancy dan » 18 May 2019, 16:25

Billy Whiz wrote:
17 May 2019, 14:41
It all sounds like something Franz Kafka would have dreamt up
It's funny how complicated things can get when countries choose to work together rather than in competition, especially when one country has a history of trying to take over other nations...

User avatar
Tacalabala
FISO Knight
Posts: 18999
Joined: 07 Sep 2008, 01:03

Re: EU post referendum discussion [see page 136, T&Cs apply with zero tolerance] - Poll: Europea Parliament Voting Inten

Post by Tacalabala » 19 May 2019, 09:03

I've added a poll for Thursday.

After a lot of back and forth, I've decided I'll be voting Lib Deb for the first time. I like that they have been consistent with their messaging on no Brexit, and they appear to have absorbed the mistakes they made in Coalition.

Labour's position is a mess attempting to please both sides, but actually ignores the fact Labour voters are mostly remain, and leave voters will not be switching, it's too late for that.

Change UK have really bungled the high hopes at the start, I really think they'd have been wiser to come to some sort of agreement with LD and Greens on a share platform.

View Latest: 1 Day View Your posts
Post Reply

Return to “News & Politics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: blahblah and 3 guests