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Pro Cycling Chit Chat

A forum for fans of Fantasy Cycling games (including Fantasy Tour de France)
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sibrown4
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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by sibrown4 »

What a sporting year Italy have had

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by forestfan »

If only we’d had Molinari, we’d have won the Ryder Cup. Will the magic have worn off by the time Italy hosts the next one?

A chance for them to add the Nations League to the trophy cabinet this week as well. Maybe they’ll even win a game in the Six Nations next year (though that would be stretching the bounds of probability…)

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by unc.si. »

I've got nothing but respect for every single rider yesterday. That was brutal.

Desperately unlucky for Moscon, although whilst I admire the ride its hard to overlook the personality, so on that level I'm not too sad to see him miss out to be honest.

just the Giro de Lombardia to go really and thats it until the spring. Hopefully all the spring classics are back where they belong in 2022.

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by blahblah »

Roubaix and Amstel Gold have swapped due to French Elections.

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by unc.si. »

Saw on the Beeb that Bernard Tapie died yesterday. Known for lots of things (usually not very favourably) but he was the one behind Look (clipless pedals, futuristic carbon frames) and La Vie Clare (Hinaults swansong and the team that brought Le Mond into the spotlight).

The archetypal Grifter. Poor background but big personality and managed to just style it out in whatever he tried, although generally not always legally.

Del Boy on steroids

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by blahblah »

Took Waddle to Marseille too?

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by murf »

Just watching the Women's tour on ITV4 catch up.

No idea who Rebecca Charlton is but, safe to say, she's not Orla.

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by murf »

The [men's] 2022 Tour of Britain will depart from Aberdeen, 12 months on from the city hosting the final stage of this year's event.

Running from 4-11 September, the race will culminate on the Isle of Wight.

The full route has not yet been disclosed but another of the eight stages will be in Nottinghamshire.

--------------

PS Was slightly harsh on women's tour route distance the other day as I saw incorrect figures. Most stages (other than ITT) are over 100km, all 95-155km so not exactly tough but marginally higher than I said. Still not a 'tour of Britain' except in name.

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by forestfan »

About as much a Tour of Britain as the Wales Rally GB (clue is in the first part…)?

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by murf »

forestfan wrote: 05 Oct 2021, 13:56 About as much a Tour of Britain as the Wales Rally GB (clue is in the first part…)?
Yep, that similarity had come to me.

Used to love following the RAC Rally around the country in the good old days. Not been to the Welsh version once.

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by forestfan »

I mostly remember made-for-Grandstand “special stages” in public parks etc. which the drivers hated…

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by murf »

forestfan wrote: 05 Oct 2021, 14:08 I mostly remember made-for-Grandstand “special stages” in public parks etc. which the drivers hated…
That was generally day 1 on the sunday I think, a warm up for the next few days. Went to places like Chatsworth House in Derbyshire (I got back from there once to find my car had 2 punctures :evil: - not much fun on a sunday. Got it fixed to drive round Wales the day after - without a spare tyre!

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by unc.si. »

Final big race of the season today. Will Remco make his long range attack stick in the race that could have finished his career before it even started last year, or will it come down to a battle between Pog, Rog and Ala?

Worth watching for the scenery alone

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by unc.si. »

Pretty impressive from Pogačar. The Tour, LBL and Lombardia in one year. Only 2 other riders have ever won the tour and 2 monuments in the same season before, and they’re the 2 greatest cyclist of all time, Coppi and Merckx. Pretty good company to be in. And he’s only 23

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by unc.si. »

TdF route revealed today.
Start is definitely in Copenhagen with 3 danish stages but then rumours of cobbles, Alpe d’Huez and another penultimate day ITT

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by forestfan »

unc.si. wrote: 14 Oct 2021, 07:04 rumours of cobbles, Alpe d’Huez and another penultimate day ITT
There’s (virtually) always a penultimate day ITT isn’t there? Combining all those three things (if geographically possible) on one stage would be interesting though…

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by unc.si. »

I think you're right about the penultimate ITT, at least for the last few years, although I don't really remember it being a thing in the past so much (although there was usually one in the last week).

they should try another final day ITT, a la 1989 Fignon / LeMond :-)

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by forestfan »

unc.si. wrote: 14 Oct 2021, 10:27 I think you're right about the penultimate ITT, at least for the last few years, although I don't really remember it being a thing in the past so much (although there was usually one in the last week).

they should try another final day ITT, a la 1989 Fignon / LeMond :-)
I’ve been saying that for years. I guess the French don’t want reminding :wink:

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by blahblah »

Are enough close enough to make it anymore than a procession?

What about an ITT going down d'Huez 👏👏👏👏

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by Smurphy Paw »

The late ITT keeps it interesting. Remember the year Wiggo and one of the Schlek brothers (Andy I think) were separated by an insurmountable 4 seconds for day after day? A late ITT would have forced Schlek to attack more often given Wiggo’s TT specialism

(It didn’t end that way, it was dull at the time though)

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by forestfan »

Anyway, a quick look back through Wikipedia shows the only Tours in the last 20 years without a penultimate stage ITT were 2001, ‘09, ‘13, ‘15, ‘16 and ‘19.

2015 and 2019 were the only ones without an ITT in the final week (the former not having one at all other than the prologue in Holland!)

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by forestfan »

In related news, the spectator who caused the stage 1 pile-up this year by bringing down Tony Martin with a cardboard banner is on trial today, and faces a possible jail sentence.

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by murf »

forestfan wrote: 14 Oct 2021, 11:55 In related news, the spectator who caused the stage 1 pile-up this year by bringing down Tony Martin with a cardboard banner is on trial today, and faces a possible jail sentence.
I thought she had been let off?

PS A few years back they did an ITT up a mountain (Ventoux?) - that was good. Chuck that in, maybe with a few miles 'run up' and add a long prologue and it is all fair.

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by blahblah »

They certainly had one up d'Huez in the bad days, but I'm not sure those times would be beaten yet 🤔

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by forestfan »

murf wrote: 14 Oct 2021, 11:59
forestfan wrote: 14 Oct 2021, 11:55 In related news, the spectator who caused the stage 1 pile-up this year by bringing down Tony Martin with a cardboard banner is on trial today, and faces a possible jail sentence.
I thought she had been let off?

PS A few years back they did an ITT up a mountain (Ventoux?) - that was good. Chuck that in, maybe with a few miles 'run up' and add a long prologue and it is all fair.
I think they dropped the civil case but a criminal prosecution still resulted.

Alpe d’Huez ITT was in 2004, won by Voldemort himself of course. (Ullrich second, you might say unsurprisingly, though as less of a pure climber than some of his rivals it was probably good going for him.) Crowds were seemingly an issue though, even more than the bunch stages on the Alpe, which has perhaps put them off a repeat or similar on one of the iconic climbs, though they’ve had a few mountainous/summit finish ITTs since, notably 2020 with Pog v Rog on Planche des Belles Filles. Last Ventoux ITT was apparently 1987.

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by murf »

Could have sworn it was more recent, maybe 8-10 years ago....

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by forestfan »

We’ve had “almost ITT situations” on the final big climb day before, such as when Quintana tried to crack Froome on (I think) Alpe d’Huez and it ended up being basically each of them against the clock. I think the year Sastre won might have been similar.

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by forestfan »

OK, so much as predicted… Danish grand depart, they’ll be primed to cash in on Vingegaard’s emergence last year (and put the spectre of Riis and Rasmussen to rest somewhat…) Probably more likely they’ll be cheering on Morkov leading out a bunch sprint winner though.

The brutal cobbles in stage 5, then after that it looks heavy on summit finishes, with Planche des Belles Filles as a warm-up to the Alps, and Alpe d’Huez (after a rare four-year gap) on Bastille Day. Also a mountaintop finish at the rarely visited Col du Granon after the familiar Galibier also returns. No Tourmalet but still two big Pyrenean finishes at Hautacam and Peyragudes. Stage 20 the only TT after the first day.

Inaugural official women’s race starts from Paris (presumably as the men finish). Disappointing that it seems to stay in the north east and doesn’t visit the Alps or Pyrenees, but final stage summit finish at PdBF is interesting decider.

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by Smurphy Paw »

forestfan wrote: 14 Oct 2021, 10:53 Anyway, a quick look back through Wikipedia shows the only Tours in the last 20 years without a penultimate stage ITT were 2001, ‘09, ‘13, ‘15, ‘16 and ‘19.

2015 and 2019 were the only ones without an ITT in the final week (the former not having one at all other than the prologue in Holland!)
I guess that by including 2001 and 20 years it looks infrequent. But it’s approx every other edition over the last decade (also dubious maths!). I think we can agree that the trend for more late ITTs is positive though

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Re: Pro Cycling Chit Chat

Post by forestfan »

Smurphy Paw wrote: 14 Oct 2021, 14:57
forestfan wrote: 14 Oct 2021, 10:53 Anyway, a quick look back through Wikipedia shows the only Tours in the last 20 years without a penultimate stage ITT were 2001, ‘09, ‘13, ‘15, ‘16 and ‘19.

2015 and 2019 were the only ones without an ITT in the final week (the former not having one at all other than the prologue in Holland!)
I guess that by including 2001 and 20 years it looks infrequent. But it’s approx every other edition over the last decade (also dubious maths!). I think we can agree that the trend for more late ITTs is positive though
Well, it kind of shows it has been nearly every year apart from a brief trend away from it in the mid ‘10s. The alternative has tended to be a big summit finish on the day before Paris.

It’s been well documented that the TT has generally been in decline overall in Grand Tours. We haven’t seen a TTT for a number of years as far as I can remember (they always played into the hands of US Postal/Sky etc. anyway), and there’s little variation from the pattern of having ITTs at the start and end but rarely one in the middle these days.

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