Only Fans

[blahblah]

I've no idea if this is the right Forum for this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rowing/arti ... 715154kmeo

But help out my Autism with the "right thing".

It seems that he's effectively banned. Is that ok, or should he just lose funding, or should it be irrelevant?

I'm sure that there must be more females than the 2 British males, but maybe the BBC thought a male would be less controversial to report?

[murf]

I've no idea if this is the right Forum for this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rowing/arti ... 715154kmeo

But help out my Autism with the "right thing".

It seems that he's effectively banned. Is that ok, or should he just lose funding, or should it be irrelevant?

I'm sure that there must be more females than the 2 British males, but maybe the BBC thought a male would be less controversial to report?

Not clear but sounds like he is just 'banned' from a funded initiative / competition.

[Smurphy Paw]

Oh, thank goodness it was that story. I feared for a moment that you were advertising your own Only Fans, blah

[forestfan]

I thought it was going to be some account recommendations…

[unc.si]

I've no idea if this is the right Forum for this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rowing/arti ... 715154kmeo

But help out my Autism with the "right thing".

It seems that he's effectively banned. Is that ok, or should he just lose funding, or should it be irrelevant?

I'm sure that there must be more females than the 2 British males, but maybe the BBC thought a male would be less controversial to report?

Not clear but sounds like he is just 'banned' from a funded initiative / competition.

I think he's banned by his governing body though, which is going to make it pretty hard for him to enter any international tournaments. I don't really see the issue if its not explicit content but we probably don't know the full story.

mind you, he can probably make more money from OF than paddling, so maybe he's just publicising this to drive people to his OF page...

[Smurphy Paw]

A few other international athletes have done the same.
I remember from my time at English Institute of Sport that the World Class Programme grants were already modest in value. Since then, as we all know, cost of living has increased and even people on reasonable salaries are struggling.

From the NGB perspective, they want to ensure that nobody brings their sport into disrepute, they’ll be trying to limit or mitigate risk. On this occasion I do suspect that The Streisand Effect is already blowing a hole in whatever comms approach they hoped to employ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

[blahblah]

Yep to both the above, which is kinda why I asked...

Is it OK for an athlete to use their sporting popularity to coin it in on OF? If yes, should they still receive funding, given that OF seems to provide much more incum.

[Smurphy Paw]

I see what you did there!

To your second question, why should an athlete not receive payment for what, in effect, is a job (representing their country)? We have taken the view that doing well in the likes of the Olympics is good for GB/NI’s soft power, for our population’s sense of worth or to develop a culture of aspiration and so on. Their excellence has value and they are rewarded - not enriched but, at least in theory, paid enough to be able to train.

Like everyone else, especially with zero hours and other employment contract changes, having a second part time job doesn’t mean that you forego the salary from a first job. So, yes, they should receive funding; and because the income for competing only amounts to a part time job, an athlete is expected to earn from elsewhere anyway.

So it comes down to acceptable types of second job. I think NGBs are going to have a difficult time dictating that. If a world class athlete is supposed to market themselves and their sport, so the sport gets publicity and profile, do you draw the line on the level of exposure (how few clothes/level of indecency) or type of site (how much worse than Twitter is Only Fans if the athlete is wearing the same clothing for each)?
I suspect the athlete’s lawyers will also be pointing out that in order to reach peak physical fitness, a number of less passive and physically demanding jobs are not possible; in order to be available to train and compete, a number of regular 9-5-type jobs are not possible. Which means that something that is not 9-5 with, in effect, a passive income, is all that is left.

For the NGBs, they also do their best to develop commercial partnerships. Sports brands, breakfast cereals, etc. They want to ensure they are not adversely affected. So that angle needs to be balanced against the individual’s need to earn enough to pay the mortgage.

TBH I am not sure where I stand on this. When I was competing I once had to decline a chance to play in a World Championships in Australia because financially it was not possible (not only the cash, I might have lost my job). So I have sympathy for the athlete and would want them to have the time flexibility and to be able to afford to compete. Having worked for NGBs, reputation is taken seriously and in that role I’d want some reassurances. Bit of a fudge of an answer, I guess

[forestfan]

When I was competing I once had to decline a chance to play in a World Championships in Australia because financially it was not possible (not only the cash, I might have lost my job). So I have sympathy for the athlete and would want them to have the time flexibility and to be able to afford to compete. Having worked for NGBs, reputation is taken seriously and in that role I’d want some reassurances. Bit of a fudge of an answer, I guess

What sport did you compete in?

[blahblah]

Bit of a fudge of an answer, I guess

Not really, you covered most the the reasons why I asked the question.

I think it boils down to (or climaxes) on whether OF is reputable or acceptable: but it's probably fair to say that most/all athletes who chose this path only have the profile to do so because of the funding they received and the ensuing exposure (ho ho).

At the moment my opinion is that it isn't acceptable because the advantage gained could force others to have to do it to be competitive. It echoes of the doping in cycling in the Armstrong era, which was neither big not clever.

[Smurphy Paw]

I think it boils down to (or climaxes) on whether OF is reputable or acceptable: but it's probably fair to say that most/all athletes who chose this path only have the profile to do so because of the funding they received and the ensuing exposure (ho ho).

More likely that they were identified as having potential and since then have worked for it to the point of competing internationally.
As for who Only Fans subscribers find attractive I would need others to add detail to that, but it might just as much be about their physique or looks, no?

At the moment my opinion is that it isn't acceptable because the advantage gained could force others to have to do it to be competitive.

I thought your socially democratic sensibilities would identify this as a good thing, to give less well off talented athletes a bit more of a level playing field as compared to those funded by ‘bank of dad’. It is the ones who would have to drop out, unable to afford to compete, that I have seen resorting to this. So I think it’s the opposite, the ability to earn an income (through whatever means) helps those who would formerly have been professionals (in the olde skool cricket sense) against the gentleman amateurs of days gone by.

What sport did you compete in?

Most successfully at lacrosse

[blahblah]

I think your confusing my point: the Paddler (the innuendos are boundless ) and the diver (see what I mean?) only had the profile to make the OF cash because of their high profile created by their talent and then the funding.

I think I'm a tad more left than socially democratic, but my concern is linked to the cycling comparison: if the NGB fund, but it's not enough, so the peculiar world of OF us the only way to compete should it be allowed? So is being competitive in all but a few sports (almost all individual ones - off the top of my head golf and tennis are the main exceptions, as I know lil about the drug world of athletics) dependent on rich benefactors or porn?

As per my initial post, my Autism and the whole masking charade means I'm kinda befuddled.

It's not freedom, if people have to demean themselves, and the NGBs and famous people have responsibilities. But then some would argue that we all have to right to perform on OF

[blahblah]

Most successfully at lacrosse

Would you have? I'm kinda asking rhetorically, and certainly don't want a demo

And I'm assuming your male, and is it different for females? (Can we swerve the Trans thang as this is confusing enough )

[unc.si]

What sport did you compete in?

Most successfully at lacrosse

Lacrosse - that's a bit of a blast from the past.
I played for a couple of seasons in the early 90's in the Northern League. Think there were only about 5,000 registered mens players in the UK at that time, about 2/3 of which were in the Northern league based around South Manchester (E&OE on the numbers - it was a while ago but it was a very minority sport back then) . Spent plenty of time traveling around the likes of Poynton, Stockport, Heaton Mersey, Cheadle Hulme, and of course the big kit supplier shop in Stockport.

I signed up for the University team after injury forced me to retire from Rugby. It had something of the physicality and athleticism of rugby but was easier on my injury. Very few Universities played mens lacrosse then so we mainly played in the league. I don't remember what division we were in. Not the top divisions but not the bottom ones either.

I played as a mid (short stick). Still got my shirt and a couple of match balls somewhere in the attic, but pads, helmet and stick all got passed on when I left. Wasn't especially good but I was quick and fit so could play a role for the team. Didn't do Only Fans

Presumably the sport must have grown in the UK since then if EIS are putting development funding in. Who did you play for.

Incidentally, one of Jens Voigt's (legendary cyclist) sons used to play lacrosse and I had a couple of conversations over twitter with him years ago about it, in the days when Twitter wasn't just full of tin hat conspiracy theories.

[Smurphy Paw]

Most successfully at lacrosse

Would you have? I'm kinda asking rhetorically, and certainly don't want a demo
And I'm assuming your male, and is it different for females? (Can we swerve the Trans thang as this is confusing enough )

Yes, I am male. No, I don’t think I would. I am not an exhibitionist. Playing sport in front of a crowd is fun, even the small crowds we’d get, but I am not really one to need to be in front of the camera.

And I believe that I understood the point you posted, I just disagreed with the analysis. Or thought it was incomplete.

In all of this I am stronger on the stuff around the developing and increasingly successful athlete than the Only Fans choices. I’ve not been on there (really, not saying that just because this is a semi-public forum). The scenario I prompted was based on the same photo, or same level of undress, being used to advertise a product (e.g. Tom Daley/British Gas), as part of sports kit (some of which leaves little to the imagination) or on OF. The Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition, for example. Or the amateur women’s rugby team that recreated the Calendar Girls calendar - that, itself, a very middle class Women’s Institute getting naked to raise money for cancer.

[Smurphy Paw]

…

Oddly, I was thinking of you recently, unc. I was trying to recall an exchange on here a few years ago about Jack Draper. He seems now to be living up to the potential he showed as a teen, but was always hampered by injury. IIRC you knew him and family, his dad very successful in sports administration.

As for lacrosse, we might have been on the same pitch! I also played for my Uni around that time, then for Sheffield and Bath. Loads of my Saturday afternoons have been spent at those south Manchester clubs. My understanding, though no longer involved, is that levels of participation in northern England have stagnated. There is a lot more now in the south and much more growth around Europe. I played against Germany when it was just a few clubs, now much bigger which is presumably how Shut Up Legs’ son got involved. In particular, though, pro leagues across the Pond with big crowds. But my days were more the amateur sport you describe.

And, yes, a fair description of lacrosse. Rugby’s physicality, with many of those who do best also having hockey or cricket background, the key there being the ability to track and understand the movement of a small ball travelling through the air at speed.
Or ice hockey - off ice and in the air - which is why Canadians were the best defenders. Those that didn’t quite cut it in pro ice hockey had many of the required attributes, and had probably played box (indoor) lacrosse in the summer anyway. The origins of the sport are in that part of North America with the Ojibwa Native Americans, now Iroquois Nationals. They call it baggataway. Defenders more than attackers transition over as defending as an art - in most invasion games - is done as much without as with the ball. They don’t need to have the same standard of stick skills as the attack.

Not to be muddled with my time in the industry. I worked at EIS when I worked in sports development.

[murf]

I shared a house with a guy who played Lacrosse once. That was in the NW too (Wigan). Don't think he was any good and I never bothered going to watch him!

[forestfan]

“Invasion games”, that’s a term I haven’t heard since school PE… IIRC typically refers to football codes and similar sports where the object is to attack/defend a goal. Think they used an equivalent term for bat-and-ball type sports, “striking games” or something like that, covering everything from racquet sports to cricket/softball/rounders.

[Smurphy Paw]

Yes, that’s the type of thing. I can’t remember the full taxonomy but invasion typically refers to attacking and defending a goal or end. Striking. Net/wall. There has to be something for athletics and swimming stuff, and things like archery and golf.

Not sure why an Only Fans titled thread is the one I have divulged most personal information on here. I hope that AI doesn’t put 2+2 together and get 5! But I’ve never lived in Wigan so it wasn’t me, murf!

[murf]

I’ve never lived in Wigan so it wasn’t me, murf!

Never thought it was.

Just that all references to Lacrosse were NW. I would have guessed, with very little basis, it was more of a southern / public school type of sport like Egg Chasing (inferior code)

[unc.si]

…

Oddly, I was thinking of you recently, unc. I was trying to recall an exchange on here a few years ago about Jack Draper. He seems now to be living up to the potential he showed as a teen, but was always hampered by injury. IIRC you knew him and family, his dad very successful in sports administration.

As for lacrosse, we might have been on the same pitch! I also played for my Uni around that time, then for Sheffield and Bath. Loads of my Saturday afternoons have been spent at those south Manchester clubs. My understanding, though no longer involved, is that levels of participation in northern England have stagnated. There is a lot more now in the south and much more growth around Europe. I played against Germany when it was just a few clubs, now much bigger which is presumably how Shut Up Legs’ son got involved. In particular, though, pro leagues across the Pond with big crowds. But my days were more the amateur sport you describe.

And, yes, a fair description of lacrosse. Rugby’s physicality, with many of those who do best also having hockey or cricket background, the key there being the ability to track and understand the movement of a small ball travelling through the air at speed.
Or ice hockey - off ice and in the air - which is why Canadians were the best defenders. Those that didn’t quite cut it in pro ice hockey had many of the required attributes, and had probably played box (indoor) lacrosse in the summer anyway. The origins of the sport are in that part of North America with the Ojibwa Native Americans, now Iroquois Nationals. They call it baggataway. Defenders more than attackers transition over as defending as an art - in most invasion games - is done as much without as with the ball. They don’t need to have the same standard of stick skills as the attack.

Not to be muddled with my time in the industry. I worked at EIS when I worked in sports development.

Good memory re Jack Draper. I used to know Rog pretty well but think the last time I saw him was about 15 years ago at a funeral. He was a very good rugby player as well as a decent tennis player. Played semi pro for one of the big teams (Warrington or Widnes I think) and was in the GB students RL team. Played with him a couple of times - union though not league. I'm not a big watcher of tennis but always try to look out for Jack. He does look very similar to Roger when he was in his early 20's, which makes watching him quite surreal!

I work for a biotech firm in California now (mostly remote, apart from Board and exec meetings) and work a lot with Canadians in PEI, BC and Nova Scotia. They find it quite surreal that a random Brit used to play 'their' sport.

I guess you never know - we could have been on the same pitch at some point. If you worked in sports development for a while I'm sure we have a few common acquaintances as well as several of my friends work in sports management and/or strength and conditioning. I think Roger may have worked at EIS before he went to the LTA, although could be getting mixed up with other friends.

[unc.si]

I’ve never lived in Wigan so it wasn’t me, murf!

Never thought it was.

Just that all references to Lacrosse were NW. I would have guessed, with very little basis, it was more of a southern / public school type of sport like Egg Chasing (inferior code)

Womens lacrosse is a bit more of a public school game I think. I'm sure some of the girls in the Enid Blyton books (Mallory Towers?) used to play Lacrosse

Its quite a different game to Mens Lacrosse. Mens Lacrosse retained the full contact physicality from the original First Nations tribal game and womens Lacrosse kept the unbounded playing area. I think womens Lacrosse must be unique in field games in that technically there are no boundaries to the pitch. It is played on a pitch but as long as you're genuinely competing and don't go too far over the 'sideline' with the ball the ref won't blow the whistle.

[thebillfella]

Can't tell you how disappointed I am to see blah start an only fans thread and this is the content.

[murf]

Can't tell you how disappointed I am to see blah start an only fans thread and this is the content.

Pervert. You really wanted to see a preview ad for blah's Only Fans page.... sick, sick, sick.

[maxi123]

I shared a house with a guy who played Lacrosse once. That was in the NW too (Wigan). Don't think he was any good and I never bothered going to watch him!

Well, I play Lacrosse in the college. it is a cool sport.