Rugby discussion

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2nd test teams:

British & Irish Lions: Hogg; A Watson, Harris, Henshaw, Van der Merwe; Biggar, Murray; Vunipola, Cowan-Dickie, Furlong, Itoje, AW Jones, Lawes, Curry, Conan.

Replacements: Owens, Sutherland, Sinckler, Beirne, Faletau, Price, Farrell, Daly.

South Africa: Le Roux; Kolbe, Am, De Allende, Mapimpi; Pollard, De Klerk; Kitshoff, Mbonambi, Malherbe, Etzebeth, Mostert, Kolisi, Du Toit, Wiese

Replacements: Marx, Nyakane, Koch, De Jager, Van Staden, Smith, H Jantjies, Willemse.

Daly out of the starting 15, as expected. Personally would have had Liam Williams on the bench rather than Daly, but not that much in it, just as long as Daly doesn't have to come on at Full Back.
Hamish Watson a bit unlucky. Faletau not too much of a surprise but thought they'd keep Watson on the bench as cover for Curry.

Boks have beefed up at 8 with Weise, who's a bit more of a direct replacement for Vermeulen than Smith was.

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Fair to say that was a game for the purists

Lions held their own in the first half but the Boks had almost complete control in the second. Etzebeth man of the match for me, but De Allende and Am dominated the midfield, Mapimpi was mainly excellent, Kolisi, Mostert and De Jager when he came on were well on top and the front row probably just shaded it as well.
The boks won the battle of the bench as well, with De Jager coming on to sort the line out probably the defining tactical move. Marx back to his usual excellent self when he came on. I think they're still struggling to find an 8 and the injuries to Faf and Pieter-Steph will be a worry but they're carrying the momentum into next week now

not sure what happened to the Lions in the second half. They just didn't seem to try anything.

Van de Merwe will be on the bench or out of the 23 next week and I can't see Hogg starting either

Probably Price, Farrell, Aki at 12 with Henshaw moving to 13, Watson and Adams on the wings and Liam Williams at FB for me next week. Was a mistake not to have Williams on the bench this week I think. I just can't see what Daly can offer against the Springboks.
Has to be some changes. The Boks won the breakdown, the kicking game, dominated the midfield and once De Jager came on had control over the lineouts as well. Scrum probably 50:50. Boks got the bounce of the ball this week in the same way that the Lions did last week, but they were the better team by a good margin over the 80 minutes. I'm really not sure what the Lions game plan was this week, but whatever it was it didn't work.

Alun Wyn, Itoje and Furlong played well, although all 3 faded pretty badly.

Pretty horrible game played on a pretty horrible pitch.

sets it up nicely for next week though The Lions are good enough to win the decider but they'll have to play a lot better than this week.

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LIONS TEAM FOR THIRD TEST AGAINST SOUTH AFRICA
15. Liam Williams (Scarlets, Wales)
14. Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales)
13. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster Rugby, Ireland)
12. Bundee Aki (Connacht Rugby, Ireland)
11. Duhan van der Merwe (Worcester Warriors, Scotland)
10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales)
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland)
1. Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales)
2. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales)
3. Tadhg Furlong (Leinster Rugby, Ireland)
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England)
5. Alun Wyn Jones – captain (Ospreys, Wales)
6. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, England)
7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England)
8. Jack Conan (Leinster Rugby, Ireland)

Replacements: 16. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England), 17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England), 18. *Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) – subject to outcome of disciplinary hearing, 19. Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales), 20. Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England), 21. Conor Murray (Munster Rugby, Ireland), 22. Finn Russell (Racing 92, Scotland), 23. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England)

Hmm. Not sure about VdM and don't know what Owens did to merit a starting place in his performance last week.
If Russell is fit then whoever didn't start out of Farrell and Biggar was always going to drop out of the 23
Watson a bit unlucky.
Feels like a similar game plan to last week to be honest. Just need to keep the pace up more and move the Bokke forwards around a bit. Some attempt to play rugby would be a good idea as well, but presumably thats where Russell, Daly and Simmonds come in

Should find out soon whether Faf and Pieter-Steph make it and whether they bring Vermeulen in, just to make their pack even bigger and more physical.

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So no Faf or Pieter-Steph, and Vermeulen didn't make it, so Mostert plays blindside (with De Jager slotting into 5), Weise stays at 8 and Reinach comes in at 9

Morne Steyn on the bench as well, just in case they need a 60 metre penalty 10 minutes into injury time to win the match

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]South Africa: W le Roux; C Kolbe, L Am, D de Allende, M Mapimpi; H Pollard, C Reinach; S Kitshoff, B Mbonambi, F Malherbe, E Etzebeth, L de Jager, S Kolisi (c), F Mostert, J Wiese

Replacements: M Marx, T Nyakane, V Koch, M van Staden, K Smith, H Jantjies, M Steyn, D Willemse

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Great test match

When Finn Russell came on and the Lions started playing rugby I thought they were going to do it. They instantly looked so much better than when Biggar was on the pitch

So close. One moment of brilliance from Kolbe, a few marginal decisions on both sides and of course Morne Steyn. Again.

no complaints, but desperately unlucky

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There are going to be a few sore heads in Dublin in the morning

great game and great result

[forestfan]

Yeah, after they took 111 years to beat them they’ve done it 3 times in 5 years! London buses and all that…

England eventually took care of the Wobblies after it had felt like one of those games where they just couldn’t quite put them away and were maybe going to pay the price. Breakaway try at the end made the scoreline more like what it should have been on the balance of play. Youngsters Smith and Steward impressed.

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Aus game was quite poor really. Messy, not helped by the ref being overly picky but Aus were poor and England didn’t really click.

Smith is a class act but will be better when he’s playing properly at 10. He’s got a beautiful pass and so much awareness.
Steward is a fantastic player as well. That’s the most comfortable that I’ve been watching an England full back for 20 odd years.
Great to see Manu back, Hill was excellent and Lawes ruled the line out. Other than that it was all a bit scrappy.
I’ll take a win against Australia any day though

[forestfan]

Or even eight of them in a row! We’d take that on the cricket field…

Seems we’re caught in a bit of a transitional phase with a few players approaching their sell-by date and others just starting to emerge. Freshening things up mid-cycle seems sensible, and making some brave calls on the likes of the injury-prone Vunipolas. But feels like the next World Cup might come around a bit soon.

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I agree. So many talented young players in the premiership but will take a while to bring them through and get them established.
The potential is there for the England team in a few years time to be one of the best for a long time

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Great test match (Eng / SA). the young players definitely put their hands up. Could have gone either way to be honest but to withstand the second half onslaught and come out with a win will give them a lot of confidence.
Steward a deserved MOTM again, although Etzebeth would have been close. Another exceptional performance from Eben and he doesn't get so much involved in the Bakkies stuff any more. Steward just looks born to play at this level

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and then Wales beat Australia in another thriller

But France and New Zealand trumped the lot. Great game. Just brilliant by France. Thought Ntamack was going to do a Blanco in the last quarter but not quite to be

[forestfan]

and then Wales beat Australia in another thriller

But France and New Zealand trumped the lot. Great game. Just brilliant by France. Thought Ntamack was going to do a Blanco in the last quarter but not quite to be

All three Southern Hemisphere giants losing to Northern opposition on the same day, has that ever happened before?

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Scotland beat Japan as well, pretty sure Italy beat Uruguay and so it’s Ireland v Argentina today for the 6 Nations clean sweep.

6 Nations looking pretty open (Wales weren’t great yesterday tbh but they’ll be a lot stronger in the spring), although France look favourites at the moment (and play England and Ireland in Paris. France v Wales in Cardiff could be the key game in the whole championship)

[forestfan]

So, England start their summer by getting a 50-point thrashing from a 14-man Barbarians side, complete with boozy build-up and back-heeled conversions.

Eddie Jones’s response is to bring back the Vunipolas and Danny Care. Doesn’t seem to be much of a plan in evidence at the moment…

[forestfan]

Ireland beat the All Blacks in their own backyard for the second week running to take a series win. Remarkable stuff.

After taking over 100 years to get a first win over them, it’s now five in eight meetings. Can they finally make an impact at a World Cup next year? Would be a fitting way for Sexton to sign off.

Aus-Eng and SA-Wales deciders to follow…

[Oxford NZ]

Ireland out played the All Blacks and deserved the series win. They will be a force to be reckoned with for the World cup, the All Blacks have a bit of work to do but have the players able to win another world cup so we should be in for a great tournament.

[forestfan]

Apparently they’re scheduled to meet in the quarter-finals, which would be a shame if they’re potentially the best two teams (though can’t rule out France and SA either).

[forestfan]

Eddie Jones blaming the preponderance of poshos in English rugby for his team turning to shit. Try looking in the mirror, coach…

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England v AB’s today. First meeting since the RWC semi final thrashing, so AB’s will be out for blood.
Neither side on top form at the moment, but should be a great game.

Earlier results today went to form with SA thrashing Italy and Georgia beating Wales

Scotland hoping to hang on against Los Pumas after going close against the AB’s last weekend and Ireland looking to complete a sweep of the autumn internationals against Australia later this evening.

[Bob Newhart]

Eddie Jones blaming the preponderance of poshos in English rugby for his team turning to shit. Try looking in the mirror, coach…

Iddie Jones

Aussie clown

[forestfan]

Eddie Jones blaming the preponderance of poshos in English rugby for his team turning to shit. Try looking in the mirror, coach…

Iddie Jones

Aussie clown

Three tries in the last 10 minutes to draw with the All Blacks, not sure where they pulled that one out from… keeps him in a job until the World Cup I guess.

[Bob Newhart]

Three tries in the last 10 minutes to draw with the All Blacks, not sure where they pulled that one out from… keeps him in a job until the World Cup I guess.

They pulled it out from the All Blacks being as crap as the Black Craps right now.

But I much prefer them being garbage in friendlies in-between World Cups if they win when it matters. There was a time they'd thrash everyone in friendlies and lose the first time they came up against someone half decent in a proper competition like the RWC. I literally stopped watching them for years because of how pi$$ed off that made me in the end.

[forestfan]

Three tries in the last 10 minutes to draw with the All Blacks, not sure where they pulled that one out from… keeps him in a job until the World Cup I guess.

They pulled it out from the All Blacks being as crap as the Black Craps right now.

But I much prefer them being garbage in friendlies in-between World Cups if they win when it matters. There was a time they'd thrash everyone in friendlies and lose the first time they came up against someone half decent in a proper competition like the RWC. I literally stopped watching them for years because of how pi$$ed off that made me in the end.

At least the All Blacks’ fragility in knockout ties keeps it interesting, unlike the rugby league version where it’s 90% certain Australia will win each time.

[forestfan]

Eddie’s gone then. Where does that leave us a year from the World Cup? Perhaps should have moved on a year or two ago, it’s been a chaotic rollercoaster since the last World Cup and he’s been stuck chopping and changing between the old and new.

A week earlier and we could have had Gatland, now every chance of muddling on to next autumn under a caretaker while France, Ireland and maybe even Wales spearhead the Northern Hemisphere challenge.

[forestfan]

Another team goes under, in London Irish… can the English Premiership survive? Or is it time to move to a regional model like Ireland and Wales, with maybe five or six top level teams representing the Midlands, London, South West etc.?

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Sad state of affairs really. The professional structure in England is unsustainable but I can’t see the RFU having the balls to sort it out.
One of my mates lost his job when Wasps went down. It’s getting to the point where there’s nowhere to go for a lot of people, except abroad (like my mate did).

Think it’s going to take the likes of Bruce Craig (Bath rfc owner) to force the RFU into drastic action to save the professional game in England.

Regional structure may well be one option, but not under sweeney

[forestfan]

Maybe they could give the Sportswashing Saudis a call?

[blahblah]

It always seemed to be a tad deluded as the crowds were never that great compared to the wages. It seemed a bit like County Cricket paying non-Prem type football wages based on a handful of Twickers full houses and a BT/Sky contact.

It does raise the question of where other sports gets their revenue from and why.

The latest to hit the global news is golf, and I'll be bigger if most of their cash does not come from big business (who are in, or want to get into Bohemia Grove, or whatever it's called).

I'm not certain just how much football revenue is down to: global vs local TV revenue; sponsorship; attendance inc the local club shop; and other global sales. There was a time when the axiom was "you'd never make money from running a football club" but now there are investment companies heavily involved along with the nation/business washers who may not be too bothered about profit. There was some media discussion about the price of following the Prem on TV being too high on which caused the demand for the bods that got convicted the other week, and I pretty much agree with it, tbh. But would the Prem accept a drop in domestic revenue? Certainly the rest of Europe would appreciate a levelling of that playing field, but then a few might want to join what could be the World/European Super League....

I actually have some sympathy for the despicable Hearn with snooker. Whatever the players say, hardly anyone goes to watch it, yet he is expected to provide an income for over 100 Pro's. I think he's deluded in comparing snooker to golf and tennis when they have BIG business behind them and the top players don't play every week and there are often more than 1 a week in tennis - but Hearn expects the top players to play in everything..... There was the farcical Comp in Hull, which should have had big crowds. However, it needed players to qualify with their performance last season and the likes of O'Sullivan not qualifying. The unctuous Murphy couldn't understand why people did to want to pay to watch him play