F1 specific (chit chat thread)

[bluenosey]

Reliability is tied to the cost cutting issue. They are only allowed so many (5?) of each bit of the engine and drive train so can't afford for them to break.

Plus the sheer number of points for finishing 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc makes a win or (literally) bust tactic less appealing for a championship.

Was it Rosberg Sr who won the Championship with just one win that season?

Yes, I think so. Some unfortunate circumstances (one potential title contender killed and another seriously injured) contributed to that I believe, and a lot fewer races, but still remarkable. I think last year’s MotoGP champion only won one race as well, though again, an unusual set of circumstances.

Cost-cutting is fair enough but take away the unpredictability and the spectacle suffers. Not sure we ever quite had this golden age of easy overtaking and evenly-matched racing, but the best cars didn’t always finish so things got mixed up. Monaco was always a bit of a procession unless it rained, but when only 6 used to finish it was still exciting. And don’t get me started on tarmac run-off areas. “Track limits” shouldn’t have to be a consideration, if you leave the circuit you should end up in a barrier or beached in gravel.

1981 is the first season I can recall and then 82, which is tragic in more ways than one. Yes, Keke Rosberg won with one win but really, Didier Pironi would have walked had it not been for his career ending accident - it spooked Alain Prost that much that in heavy rain where visibility was bad, Prost would struggle or famously in one wet race, just pull into the pits and say enough's enough. Could have been British GP 1988. Some weird races in 82. Nike Lauda and John Watson won an American street circuit GP (was it Detroit ?) after starting something like 21st and 22nd on the grid. Elio De Angelis won his first GP, just pipping Rosberg by cms. It was also the year where Piquet had a hilarious strop and punch out after Eliseo Salazar took him out of one race. To be fair Piquet had every right to be peed off, but the reaction was priceless. 1983 was much better - Prost/Piquet and the Ferraris of Arnoux and Patrick Tambay all in with a shout. In those days reliability counted for a lot and as I recall, Prost's Renault turbo let him down too often, letting Piquet in and become champion. In fact Prost was depserately unlucky in 83 and 84 but karma keeps receipts and it wa his turn to have some rub in 1986, when Mansell's tyre let go in Australia.

[bluenosey]

I'm actually enjoing the season this year, with Max giving Lewis a run for his money. For about the lasy 7/8 years, I've lost a bit of interest and drifted over to Moto GP but this year we've got two contenders from different teams and it looks like RBR have finally a car that matches the Mercs. Always support Lewis but would be great if Max were to win. There are young guns nipping away and pleased to note the Norris and Russsell are both British. Their quali performances at the last GP were exceptional.

I think George will be announced 2nd Merc driver very soon, replacing Bottas, who let's be honest, has disappointed. He's gone a bit rogue too this year, blocking Lewis for about 4 corners in one of the races and having some major rants over the radio about tyres/tactics but what sealed the deal was last year, where George got in the car, where the seat was too small and you could see him visibly higher, and comfortably led Valterri. Norris has also outshone Danny Ric, who is struggling to get hold of the orange machine. Half a second is a lifetime and the pressure is on the popular Aussie.

[Mystery]

Prost would struggle or famously in one wet race, just pull into the pits and say enough's enough. Could have been British GP 1988.

Pretty sure that was an Aussie race. Maybe the one they red flagged early on and didn't restart.

[bluenosey]

Prost would struggle or famously in one wet race, just pull into the pits and say enough's enough. Could have been British GP 1988.

Pretty sure that was an Aussie race. Maybe the one they red flagged early on and didn't restart.

Yeah, there was one wash out of a race - I think Senna just drove straight into the back of Brundle (?). Got a feeling Boutsen may have won that race...hmm

[Malrom]

Famous name, sadly passed:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57757338

RIP Carlos Reutemann. Formidable on his day, and really should have been 1981 World Champion. 12 wins to his name. Not too shabby by half. Always seemed perma tanned with white teeth is the way I remember him. Moved into politics after he left F1 in 1982.

Yes, I remember him well! He was from Argentina, which made him special for me at the time!
His move from Ferrari to Lotus for the 1979 made it possible for Jody Scheckter (my favorite driver) to win the WC that year!

RIP Carlos Reutemann!

Jody Sheckter now owns a farm somehwere in England. He popped up on a repeated episode of Escape to the Country fairly recently !

Thank you! I knew that, but the episode of Escape to the Country escaped me!

[murf]

I didn't know that. Will have to dig out the Escape... episode.
Loved the Ferraris from that era, big Scheckter fan at the time but Villeneuve was to be my big hero as a kid.

[bluenosey]

Well, that's lit the blue touch paper. We're going to have a proper ding dong tussle to the end of the season now.

How did people on here see the incident ? All round the first lap, it seemed to be coming, both cars getting very close, Max weaving a bit, Hamilton looking for another line... then up to Copse Lewis got almost alongside, backed off a bit but on the dirty line, but Max took the normal racing line and Lewis clipped Max's right rear, sending him into the tyre wall at considerable speed. Could have been nasty but glad Max OK. I though Christain Horner went a bit over the top IMO with his reaction but I understand his frustration. At the end of the day, both guys are racers and after seeing the incident again, I would put it 55/45 Lewis's fault but that's unuual for him as he doesn't tend to get involved in controversies. Driver of the day obviously Leclerc for a superb drive, just the slight mistake under pressure, but that's what makes Hamilton a 7 time champ. Norris robbed of third thanks to a pit stop problem, not quite as bad as Sainz's though. The only thing that too the shine off the racing was the inability for cars to follow close to the car in front but overall, a good spectacle.

[Mav3rick]

What did you think of the "sprint" race? The opening lap or two were pretty decent racing, but it went a bit flat toward the end. Not sure how you make people race unless the grid is reversed, it's too risky really for the front runners to push for one or two extra places on the starting grid.

[Mystery]

The sprint didn't add anything for me, but it made the spectacle no worse either and I quite liked Friday night qualifying. I'd turn off if we started reversing grids though.

Today's accident was two racers racing hard. Slightly more Hamilton's fault but Verstappen crowding him on the inside didn't help. Taking into account the Perez and Norris penalties last race, the Hamilton penalty today and this Perez non-penalty today, I really have no idea what form of hard racing is allowed. Maybe it just isn't and if that's the case that would be very sad indeed.

[murf]

I think the sprint race is good - or at least not bad.

To make it more attractive it needs to offer more to make risk taking worthwhile. A few more points? Old school 9-6-4-3-2-1 maybe.

Radical idea - mandatory pit stop on a fixed lap. 1st on grid gets to pick his lap in advance then 2nd etc. No more than 2 can stop on any one lap.

And please, please let it be called a RACE where the bloke who starts in first is in POLE POSITION.

Not convinced having Qualifying on friday evening though with Practice 2 afterwards. Just put quali back to saturday lunchtime - or do they want a TV spectacle on all 3 days?

[forestfan]

Didn’t actually see the sprint race, but yeah, probably greater incentives are needed to make it more of a spectacle and encourage people to have a go.

Stewarding does seem a bit inconsistent and penalising racing. Mercedes were seemingly emailing Michael Masi during the race and he said he was too busy to read it Not that he has the personal call on in-race penalty incidents anyway, that’s what the race stewards are for, but presumably sets the benchmarks for them to work to. Sounds like there needs to be a bit more clarity and consistency anyway.

[murf]

There is clarity in that there are a set of rules/guidance on overtakes etc with diagramatic examples that only the teams officially see. Allegedly there is a diagram of an overtake very similar to Hamilton's yesterday but with 'him' having LESS of the car past the Verstappen equivalent and it is deemed OK.

In the last few races there have been quite a few incidents which are 50/50 and the one who survives seemingly gets punished. Not right IMO.

[hancockjr]

Hamilton was barely punished though - probably rightly under the rules.

Personally I think he should either have been "at fault" and disqualified or "not at fault" and no punishment - there should not be a grey area. I believe he was punished as he "could have ensured the accident didn't happen" but then Verstappen can keep doing what he did.

Re. the example, isn't it more than how far up the other car is - for instance I think Hamilton was said not to be aiming at the apex (i.e. he was pushing Verstappen wider than he needed to) - that also seems relevant.

[blahblah]

Hamilton was barely punished though - probably rightly under the rules.

Personally I think he should either have been "at fault" and disqualified or "not at fault" and no punishment - there should not be a grey area. I believe he was punished as he "could have ensured the accident didn't happen" but then Verstappen can keep doing what he did.

Re. the example, isn't it more than how far up the other car is - for instance I think Hamilton was said not to be aiming at the apex (i.e. he was pushing Verstappen wider than he needed to) - that also seems relevant.

Yep, but the Championship is closer this way

[bluenosey]

Hamilton was barely punished though - probably rightly under the rules.

Personally I think he should either have been "at fault" and disqualified or "not at fault" and no punishment - there should not be a grey area. I believe he was punished as he "could have ensured the accident didn't happen" but then Verstappen can keep doing what he did.

Re. the example, isn't it more than how far up the other car is - for instance I think Hamilton was said not to be aiming at the apex (i.e. he was pushing Verstappen wider than he needed to) - that also seems relevant.

Hamilton almost got alongside. He wasnt pushing Max wide, indeed you could argue Max squeezed him a bit and had arguably squeezed him in a couple of GP this year. The penalty about right but Lewis got lucky in that he sustained hardly any damage. There are a range of time penalties, drive throughs, stop go's and so on. The consistency needs to come from race control in how these are applied.

[hancockjr]

Yes I agree the penalty is right according to the rules (or more like I don't know enough to disagree) but I think the rules are wrong. Make the driver either responsible (disqualify in this case given the result) or not responsible (no penalty).

[bluenosey]

George Russell yesterday was IMMENSE.



I can't for the life of me remember when someone had a car about 2 secs slower than the faster cars putting it on the front row.

I also can't remember the last time I was off my seat watching a qualifying session !

Surely, surely, he's got to have that second Merc seat now ?

[Mystery]

He's already got it allegedly. Toto would look incredibly weak putting Bottas back in. I think the delay is about sorting out Bottas's next move (possibly Williams after yesterday)

[bluenosey]

Well, my head is hurting trying to take all that in. No spoilers but if you didn't see the race live, well worth a watch.

[forestfan]

Yeah, absolutely bonkers. Got a feeling the title’s going to be decided in the stewards’ room, or even appeal courts.

Most bizarre bit was race director Michael Masi playing Deal or No Deal with Red Bull regarding Verstappen’s starting position on one of the restarts…

[Mystery]

Ummm... I saw the race live and to be frank it was an absolute effing mess. I'll moan fully another time to avoid spoilers but this branch of the sport needs a complete shake up and reset.

[forestfan]

Ummm... I saw the race live and to be frank it was an absolute effing mess. I'll moan fully another time to avoid spoilers but this branch of the sport needs a complete shake up and reset.

So you prefer the processions and pit-stop chess matches that have been more common in recent years?

[Mystery]

Nope. I preferred F1 in the 80s and maybe 90s really. How long ago was the season where 7ish of the opening races were won by different drivers. Messed the sport up with adding hybrid tech taking the smaller racing manufacturers out of it.

[forestfan]

Nope. I preferred F1 in the 80s and maybe 90s really. How long ago was the season where 7ish of the opening races were won by different drivers. Messed the sport up with adding hybrid tech taking the smaller racing manufacturers out of it.

Well yeah, I did love the “stick a Cosworth in a go-kart and you have an F1 car” era, with pre-qualifying and about 40 entries at one stage. I still don’t think a race should be valid without 26 cars on the grid…

I’ve been saying for years that reliability is the biggest issue, too many cars finish the races (and there’s too many races as well). Obviously they couldn’t keep going with gas-guzzlers that bear no relation to road technology. Has been an epic battle this season though, and deserves to go to the final race shoot-out.

[bluenosey]

The countdown begins and it's live on C4 for anyone without Sky F1.

[forestfan]

Ideal scenario for the grid really, apart from having the team-mates a bit further down so less likely to be able to play a big part in proceedings. Lewis has to make a move. Let’s hope it’s decided on the track and not in the stewards’ room or appeal courts. A lot of responsibility on Michael Masi today, he needs to have a better race than last week… I know he’s in a tough spot, it’s like having the same ref for every Premier League game and he took over from someone who did it for 30 years.

[bluenosey]

Ideal scenario for the grid really, apart from having the team-mates a bit further down so less likely to be able to play a big part in proceedings. Lewis has to make a move. Let’s hope it’s decided on the track and not in the stewards’ room or appeal courts. A lot of responsibility on Michael Masi today, he needs to have a better race than last week… I know he’s in a tough spot, it’s like having the same ref for every Premier League game and he took over from someone who did it for 30 years.

When Tsunoda was lying in 3rd, I was a bit nervous but Lando should keep out of the way. Lewis on mediums and Max on softs should be intersting the way it pans out. The race could be won in the pits. Tough call.

I heard Derek Warwick on the radion this morning and he said there's 4 of them (race directors) so not sure any decsions will lie completely with one man (Masi).

We just don't want a Schumacher/Senna situation. I still think there's a real chance of a collision though

[forestfan]

One race director and 4 stewards I guess. Not exactly sure how the responsibilities are divided, seems the stewards make the call on individual incidents but the RD decides what to refer to them.

Think there’s a fair chance of a coming together… Max knows he wins if they both fail to finish (barring the messy situation of points deductions etc.) I don’t expect a deliberate ramming off the track as much as one of them refusing to yield after a borderline overtaking move is made.

[forestfan]

Mazepin out with Covid. That’s one potential hazard out of the way for the title rivals…

[blahblah]

Who wins if they don't get past the first bend?