BitCoin

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Hotpot
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Re: BitCoin

Post by Hotpot »

Surprised wrote:
05 Mar 2018, 19:01
I do have the source code for the post in question so could post the message here if you wanted.
Not sure if there is any reason why it can't be posted here, but if there is, I wouldn't mind a copy via PM to read?

:D

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Surprised »

here you go
I've been trading stocks for over 20 years with my savings and I lucked out though 2008 crushed me. In the last few years, Bitcoin was on my radar and I decided to buy 2 coins at $276 which then turned to trading when it hit $5,000. Since I use GDAX as my exchange, I spread to Ethereum and Litecoin and I've done very well.

I sold most of my holds in mid-December and sold the rest about 7 weeks ago. I waited to post something until I moved all the money to my bank account (there are withdrawal limits even on wires) and I wanted to file my taxes so I know how much money I would have left.

I wanted to do the following with the profits:

Pay off my in-laws mortgage. They're in the retirement age but don't have enough saved up. Paying off their mortgage would severely cut their expenses since their income has dramatically dropped and the mortgage was the largest bill they had by far (they were both laid off).

Pay off my wife's student loans (which she has had prior to us getting married). This has been a stone hanging around her neck and although I personally didn't want to pay off her loans, enough's enough.

Pay off or at least severely cut our own mortgage.



My wife had NO idea I did any of this or made so much money. I felt a bit guilty not telling her since my initial investment was relatively small and the gains were astronomical.

So, a week ago, I was finalizing our taxes so I knew how much money I had left over to play with. I sat my wife down and told her I had some great news. I asked her not to say anything until I was done - I even had a speech prepared. I held her hand while I was talking and her eyes turned square.

When I was done, she still didn't say anything and I asked her "so, what do you think?" and she said "you said not to say anything..." and then said this was awesome news, she can't believe it, she asked me right away if we got all the money secured, what about taxes - she was so excited that she was all over the place. I asked what she thought about my plan and she said that we need to call her parents right away since she'd rather their mortgage is paid off than her student loans. I told her we'd have enough for both and she began to cry. I think she was just in shock and not really comprehending what I just told her.

So we called her parents (who are really fantastic people) and told them that we were giving them a gift and paying off their mortgage. Just like with my wife, there was silence. "What about your retirement" was the question. I told them not to worry, we have enough and we want to do this for them. Silence. I think her mom was crying since dad took over the phone and said he doesn't know what to say, he asked again if we're sure, and if we're ok ourselves. Like I said, they're really great people.

I told him that we can go online right now and pay off their mortgage. He said that this is too much and he doesn't want to make a big decision right now. He asked me to give them until tomorrow. I agreed but asked how much his mortgage was and he gave me a figure. It was actually a bit higher than I thought but still reasonable.

I went to my wife's computer and logged into her student loans, entered the payoff amount and told her to click on the payment button. She just looked at me for a bit, had that smile of hers that I love, and clicked on the payment button. She squealed and I think you could see her smile from the street.

The next day, her parents called us and again profusely thanked us, once again asked if we're sure this won't hurt our plans, and then I went into their computer remotely, they logged into their mortgage, added my bank info, clicked the payoff button, entered the amount and told them to click on the payment link when ready. They waited a minute or so and clicked on it. I had a huge grin on my face and told them they're all set but to confirm with the mortgage company and save the letter they send for the payoff statement. Dad again thanked us and had no words. Mom was on the line but I think she muted herself since she barely spoke. A few days later, we get a really beautiful card from them telling us how much this meant to them. My wife cried and I wasn't too far off - it was a very touching card.

With the rest of the money, I put that towards our own mortgage. It didn't pay it off but it paid about 40% of it. It might not have been the best idea since I could have reinvested that but my goal is to dump our mortgage and seeing investment profits is one thing but it began to blur into no real value. It was only until I saw my bank account balances that I saw this money as "real". I was also getting way too cocky with investments and I needed a cool-off period or I'd turn from investments into gambling. So yes, I could have made more but I could have lost more as well and become more risky. This way I had something tangible to show for it now even when I eventually return to the market. Besides, I helped out my in-laws, helped out my wife, and helped our situation. Mathematically, it might not have been the best decision but from how I feel, it was the best decision.

Now in case there are questions, I don't typically recommend trading cryptocurrencies until you've put in a few solid weeks of research into what it is, its volatility, which exchanges are available and the fees involved. It is definitely speculation and I was simply lucky enough to get in sooner than many and I was able to trade while crypto was booming. It's not booming anymore but you can still make money although it's a lot more risky.

I hope this helped some people and the real lesson that I'd like to share is to spread the wealth and help those who are less fortunate than you but definitely take care of yourself. The other lesson is that investments mean nothing if you're still struggling personally. You sometimes should cash out and pay off or at least pay down your own debts. That way if the investments go down, you already have something to show for it.

I hope this helps and good luck to everyone!

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Archy »

In the interest of balance, please be aware that many significant institutions (including the Bank of England and Goldman Sachs) warn of the dangers of investing in a currency with no intrinsic value. This is being kind, others refer to them as little more than a Ponzi scheme.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... land-warns

http://fortune.com/2018/02/07/bitcoin-p ... ocurrency/

If you want to judge for yourself, try googling where can you actually use Bitcoin to purchase anything in the UK. I couldn’t see a single known organisation that accepted them, and most that did seemed to be cannabis seed sellers.

So - in summary, they could be a decent investment if you think the bubble will continue growing, and are planning on setting up a cannabis farm :D

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Finsimbo »

Just another story about CC,

Here

This is kinda the way I see it and what the point of this thread I tried to make it about but there are always the few who just dismiss it and believe what they read in the mainstream media (MM).

I was never here to persuade just to see if there were others on this BB who might have had other ideas. It's all about opening you ears and eyes to what is happening around you, take off those blinkers.

Life moves pretty fast. If you don’t stop and look around once in awhile, you could miss it.

Anyways for those who might like another quick read enjoy.

Fin

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Finsimbo »

Archy wrote:
05 Mar 2018, 20:27
In the interest of balance, please be aware that many significant institutions (including the Bank of England and Goldman Sachs) warn of the dangers of investing in a currency with no intrinsic value. This is being kind, others refer to them as little more than a Ponzi scheme.
These many institutions you mention are the ones who will loose out big time and they know it.

as in

Bank of Poland

As for the rest of your post...meh, do some research man

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Striker »

Nobody disputes that the block chain technology behind crypto-currencies is brilliant and no one knows how sustainable the currently popular currencies will be. Articles about it are fascinating. However I remain sceptical about investing myself since the massive 2017 bitcoin price increase (price not value as no one knows what the latter is), as I am a conservative financial investor, despite betting (successfully) on horses all my life, and I only invest in things which my limited brain can understand such as the stock market.

CCs might become a basic element of finance in years to come or they might not. Like many other things in life they encompass multiple potential benefits and multiple potential risks for both individuals and society. But for the average man in the street to be investing in CCs, UNLESS they accept that it is a outright gamble, is downright stupid.

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Finsimbo »

Striker wrote:
06 Mar 2018, 23:05
Nobody disputes that the block chain technology behind crypto-currencies is brilliant and no one knows how sustainable the currently popular currencies will be. Articles about it are fascinating. However I remain sceptical about investing myself since the massive 2017 bitcoin price increase (price not value as no one knows what the latter is), as I am a conservative financial investor, despite betting (successfully) on horses all my life, and I only invest in things which my limited brain can understand such as the stock market.

CCs might become a basic element of finance in years to come or they might not. Like many other things in life they encompass multiple potential benefits and multiple potential risks for both individuals and society. But for the average man in the street to be investing in CCs, UNLESS they accept that it is a outright gamble, is downright stupid.
ISA's always end then long sell with

"the money you invest is that the money you put in may not make a profit, be prepared to loose you initial investment as you might end up not taking a profit"

So essentially a gamble albeit with a bank you kinda hope the bank wont go bust or some nasty bank/banker wont gamble your money away...Baring's Bank.

It's all a risk at the end of the day. Your post is suggests you made outright gambles, horses/stock market. You did some research on these services. Are you downright stupid? I don't think you are.

The avg man in the street is familiar with those you have mentioned thats all.

You put in what you can loose same as betting on the horses and gambling with stocks and shares. You ARE downright stupid if you put your weeks wages on the 4:30 from Haymarket, would the avg man do that?

You gamble what you are prepared to loose as I have banged on all throughout this thread. Read, research and if you feel you want to gamble, how different is that to betting on the horses? All your life on the horses means that you have some wisdom in that area your not a newbie who walks in to the betting shop and slaps down a tenna on a horse that takes his fancy, betting shops make it easy for you to be able to do that. Imagine now if you could walk into a CC shop and say give me £10 in the hottest cc and I'll be back in a week to collect any winnigs it might have made, it could be none or it could be double.

Do you think from the post above that Surprised copied that this guy just did it on a whim? He did his research and took a gamble and the payoff was quite healthy was he downright stupid?

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Archy »

Finsimbo wrote:
05 Mar 2018, 20:58
Archy wrote:
05 Mar 2018, 20:27
In the interest of balance, please be aware that many significant institutions (including the Bank of England and Goldman Sachs) warn of the dangers of investing in a currency with no intrinsic value. This is being kind, others refer to them as little more than a Ponzi scheme.
These many institutions you mention are the ones who will loose out big time and they know it.

as in

Bank of Poland

As for the rest of your post...meh, do some research man
Firstly, your post is rather rude. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t give you the right to be disparaging.

You tell me to do my research but you also tell us that many people foolishly believe what they read in mainstream media. So I should only do research in non-mainstream media and only believe it if it agrees with your POV, correct?

You state:

“I was never here to persuade just to see if there were others on this BB who might have had other ideas. It's all about opening you ears and eyes to what is happening around you, take off those blinkers”

It seem to me you actually have no interest in other views at all! Certainly not mine, nor any of the self-interested institutions who warn against it (which is pretty much every major player in the current financial system and every retailer you’ve ever heard of).

You have clearly made up your mind you want to invest. That’s entirely up to you. But please don’t go inviting other views just to then (rudely) dismiss them because they don’t fit in to your own blinkered view.

If you actually want to make a more positive response to my post than “meh”, perhaps you could educate us by naming 5 household names in the UK who are actually prepared to accept payments in crypto currencies?

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Zimmerman »

Have to admit, I agree with Archy (and striker).

For me it’s a punt (and I have friends doing quite well out of it at the moment... in years to come I could be kicking myself for not getting on board).

Regardless, it’s an absolute mine field (maybe that’s just my ignorance) but I just can’t get over the hurdle of this being made up and so vulnerable to manipulation.

Archy does also have another point finisibo. It’s almost like you are trying to convince yourself this is a good thing (obviously if you are currently winning, then fair play to you... you will be fan). But maybe don’t be so disparaging if other people don’t share your enthusiasm.

I think you are probably right, at some point, one of the cryptos probably will win (will probably depend on which one Apple or Amazon decide to back). Until then I’ll continue to rely on contactless payments and good old fashioned currencies.

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Zimmerman »

Also, regarding that story about the guy making a shed load of dough?

So what?

Could be completely fabricated.

Doesn’t tell you remotely how he did it. There are probably 1000001 similar investment stories and 50000001 polar opposite stories.

Some guy postkng on reddit that he’s paid off student loans and his mortgage? Good for him.

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Finsimbo »

Archy wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 08:26
Finsimbo wrote:
05 Mar 2018, 20:58
Archy wrote:
05 Mar 2018, 20:27
In the interest of balance, please be aware that many significant institutions (including the Bank of England and Goldman Sachs) warn of the dangers of investing in a currency with no intrinsic value. This is being kind, others refer to them as little more than a Ponzi scheme.
These many institutions you mention are the ones who will loose out big time and they know it.

as in

Bank of Poland

As for the rest of your post...meh, do some research man
Firstly, your post is rather rude. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t give you the right to be disparaging.

It seem to me you actually have no interest in other views at all! Certainly not mine, nor any of the self-interested institutions who warn against it (which is pretty much every major player in the current financial system and every retailer you’ve ever heard of).

If you actually want to make a more positive response to my post than “meh”, perhaps you could educate us by naming 5 household names in the UK who are actually prepared to accept payments in crypto currencies?
Firstly my response was because I read your as rather rude in the first place, dismissing all that I have said and quoting institutions that are exactly what CC is aiming to disrupt, why wouldn't they disapprove, they will loose out.

I am open to views but not views that are using the banks as their pov, see above.

I do not need to name any household names but if you want

one

two

three

I could go on but I can't be bothered to......

Hey, I'm just trying to open ppl's narrow minds.

Blockchain is where it's at, CC is the next logical step and at the moment it's a gamble as to which coin will be the winner as it's early days, but the wagon is a rollin

IBM

https://cloud.oracle.com/en_US/blockchain

As to name a few

Even Mark Zuckerberg is thinking more about CC

https://futurism.com/mark-zuckerberg-of ... -facebook/

But this is all to easy to dismiss right :wink:

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Finsimbo »

@zimmerman,

This is it. It's a punt same as going into the bookies.

The story about the guy making his money, I have followed him and he seems to be on the ball with most of his posts and yes there are thousands of ppl out there who have lost. I was going to post another about exactly that as a warning but you guys already know that.

How about posts on here about guys who have lost loads of money at FF? Or how about posts on here about guys who go to gamblers anonymous because they have a problem with the horses or stock market traders...see where I'm coming from.

Do you have that same opinion about your ISA? You can win or you can loose, but it's run by the banks.....so thats ok then

It is a minefield, why are most of my posts about doing your research :roll: you do enough research of FF games I have chose to use that time on CC instead

All posts on this thread have no real substance other than to knock me.

Tell me how investing in CC is different than to any other startup..

Just suppose I came along with this idea years ago about a internet search engine that has a algorithm much better than Yahoo or any other that is already out there...I'm going to call it Google what do you think

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Zimmerman »

Depends on the type of ISA doesn’t it?

And yes, it is run by the bank... and yes, it is ‘ok’ because thsee guys have been doing this for 300years or whatever. Yes it’s a closed shop, but it’s a closed shop that currently dictates how the world spins around.

You might see crypto as a new kid on the block with the ability to overthrow the establishment. Maybe it is.

Until then, I’ll continue being a drone and sucking up what I’m served (and playing it safe). Good luck
To those who want to capitalise... I have a few friendss doing well (and one who has tried hard to take me along for the ride... he wants me to get rich with him (or at least go to Dubai with him every winter).

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Finsimbo »

And all of what you have said is perfectly ok.

I'm just about the alternatives to the usual investments/gambling that goes on on this site. Maybe this should go in the gambling thread :wink:

It's all about what you know and not just dismissing it because it's all a black box

How is your mate no different than another giving you a tip on a horse? You can put in however much you want

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Zimmerman »

I don’t suppose it is... although I’m more inclined to believe the bit coin route with graphs of trends etc ;)

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Striker »

Finsi. mbo wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 09:43
This is it. It's a punt same as going into the bookies.

No, there is a very significant difference between backing horses and investing in a CC. Assuming that in both cases we are dealing with an intelligent punter who has done considerable homework, then in the case of a bet on a horse one can estimate roughly ones own subjective probability of a horse winning and compare that with the odds available. One's own estimate of the probability of winning is usually going to be not too far distant from that represented by the odds available. It's then a question whether the odds are favourable or unfavourable. Making a profit depends on your estimation being better than the market estimation, but we basically know what the probability is and the factors that are the main determinants. But however much research you do on CCs, you can't attach probabilities in a reasonably narrow band to the outcomes, the market tends to be all over the place. Research may avoid the worst errors but basically it's guessing.

Finsimbo wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 09:43
All posts on this thread have no real substance other than to knock me.

That is simply being over-sensitive. I and most other posters who disagree with you aren't trying to knock you but are simply expressing a different point of view. In fact that sentence might be the first one that you've written which is clearly and totally wrong. No one knows the future of bitcoin etc and it could be the future, but it may finish up discredited. Consequently this discussion provides a worthwhile and interesting thread largely due to the different opinions being expressed.

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Mystery »

Archy wrote:
05 Mar 2018, 20:27
I couldn’t see a single known organisation that accepted them, and most that did seemed to be cannabis seed sellers.
Personally, I wouldn't touch Bitcoin with a ***tty stick however to answer the above there's a divey wine bar near here that claims to accept them - the Forum Wine Bar in St Helier. I don't believe they sell the other product you speak of but I've never asked either.

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Mystery »

One of my work colleagues invested in some CC or other a few months ago and enjoyed telling everyone about it. Not because he was showing off, just an open-book sort of guy. Earlier this year, he could have sold and had a big profit but didn't and now faces a loss. On paper, because he's not selling.

He played the game and gambled. Whether he wins or loses or not will depend on good luck in his timing as much as anything else. That doesn't make it a bad investment.

However, the fact it's not connected to the mainstream financial services system doesn't automatically make it a good investment either. It will still be about good luck and timing.

Personally, I'd rather not gamble like that but if I did I'd rather head to Las Vegas.

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Finsimbo »

Striker wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 23:08
Finsi. mbo wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 09:43
This is it. It's a punt same as going into the bookies.

No, there is a very significant difference between backing horses and investing in a CC. Assuming that in both cases we are dealing with an intelligent punter who has done considerable homework, then in the case of a bet on a horse one can estimate roughly ones own subjective probability of a horse winning and compare that with the odds available. One's own estimate of the probability of winning is usually going to be not too far distant from that represented by the odds available. It's then a question whether the odds are favourable or unfavourable. Making a profit depends on your estimation being better than the market estimation, but we basically know what the probability is and the factors that are the main determinants. But however much research you do on CCs, you can't attach probabilities in a reasonably narrow band to the outcomes, the market tends to be all over the place. Research may avoid the worst errors but basically it's guessing.

Finsimbo wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 09:43
All posts on this thread have no real substance other than to knock me.

That is simply being over-sensitive. I and most other posters who disagree with you aren't trying to knock you but are simply expressing a different point of view. In fact that sentence might be the first one that you've written which is clearly and totally wrong. No one knows the future of bitcoin etc and it could be the future, but it may finish up discredited. Consequently this discussion provides a worthwhile and interesting thread largely due to the different opinions being expressed.
Ok maybe I am being over sensitive but hey and it is enlightening to see how dismissive ppl are on here at the slight mention of CC. Indeed no one does know the future of Bitcoin but some ppl have a very good idea

See your first analogy is knowing the game and how to play it. Bit like traders. Im no trader but Im sure if there were to be one on here they could probably counter your argument, I dont know, maybe DOT could enlighten you?

There are many shit alt coins out there but there are also a few that have good backing and tech behind them and gradually ppl are coming around to the use of them in the common place, not here in the UK as yet but in US and Asia. I guess it will be only a matter of time when you will see in a shop front signs saying we accept Bitcoin, Litecoin, Ethereum and maybe a few others.

You have Revolut which offers a credit card to use. Offers money exchange and transfer you coin into the local currency when travelling, I can only see these sort of utilities becoming more and more fashionable in a few years.

@Mystery, it is all about good luck and timing but isn't most things.

Like I said if you take out a ISA it says be prepared that you might not get back your initial investment.....where's the difference? Your relying on a bank to do the trading for you?

Take back control, selling your own house bypassing estate agents you would have to do your homework but you can save a lot of money in fee's.

At the end of the day, do you want to take a risk and really life is all about taking risks in one way or another. Vegas huh, I'll have black....weeee, oh I lost over in a sec. Or are you talking about the whole package of going to Vegas?

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Finsimbo »

Mystery wrote:
07 Mar 2018, 23:27

It will still be about good luck and timing.
This!!!!

just spoke to my work colleague who had been mining LTC a few years ago...gathered 640 coins sold last year around Sep when it was £40 a coin, last Dec got to £254 that would have been £160k

He's still smiling though......And he' still at it...

I'm looking to hopefully get my son's their driving tests if it all works out

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Finsimbo »

This artical sums up what I hve been trying to put across in this thread from the begining

And why I think there is money to be made if you get on board with the right coin. Bitcoin will be there but there will be others

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Re: BitCoin

Post by hancockjr »

That suggests cryptocurrencies have a future, but not what value they have.

What's the argument for bitcoin being worth $100, $1.000, $10,000 or $100,000?

To invest, something must not only be worth more than nothing, it's got to be worth more than you are investing. How are you valuing bitcoin when you are deciding to invest?

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Re: BitCoin

Post by Finsimbo »

Wanted to post an update here..

So the markets went down and money was lost but the upside is that I managed to increase my stack by a good amount, still trying to get a full bitcoin but not far off for percy, the rest are investments for the family.

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