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Giving notice

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Vid
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Giving notice

Post by Vid »

This has been coming for some time, over the past few years the workload, length of shifts have increased, less time to rest, more fatigue, continual new petty rules, a weak union that has given away a good many of our rights (let alone permitted the deterioration in working conditions) and it's really just become too much for me. We're supposed to be on 10 hour and 45 minute shifts, Saturday was yet another 13 hour plus for me, there is no such thing as overtime, I simply cannot continue getting up at 1am and getting home pushing 4pm.

So time to write up and hand in my notice, problem! the last time I left a job was nearly 10 years ago, for the most part I enjoyed the job, was on good terms with the employers and was moving to another country. I'm not exactly on bad terms with the current employers but I'm certainly not happy and most of the management should be well aware of that fact.

My thought was to simply give them a month's notice, no reasons, no comments, just that I'm leaving on such-a-such a date. The missus says I should give a bit more, bring up the fact that I informed them several months ago that I was struggling, that I've seen my GP a number of times over recent months and that it's very likely that fatigue played a major part in my taking 3 weeks off on the sick in November, something has been pulled/ strained/ torn for some time and even though there was definite improvements with 3 weeks' rest a few days back at work and I was back in pain.

Many of you will have seen some of my posts, they can get rather long! Just how much do I write? How much depth and detail? What bearing is anything I include likely to play should a future potential employer contact them about my time with them? I'm not considering requesting a reference, but should I be? And again, if I do then obviously what I say are my reasons for leaving may well impact on anything that they could say.

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Tacalabala
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Re: Giving notice

Post by Tacalabala »

I would ask for a written reference BEFORE passing comment, which can be done in a separate communication.

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Re: Giving notice

Post by dreamrecruitment »

I work in hr:)

Check your contract first of all and make sure that it doesn't stipulate a certain length of time based on service.

Assuming not, or you don't have access to it, then the minimum notice you should give is the period you get paid. I.e if you're paid monthly, give a month, if your paid weekly, a week and so on. You can of course give more, but this is the minimum requirement from your side.

Good luck!

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Vid
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Re: Giving notice

Post by Vid »

dreamrecruitment wrote:I work in hr:)

Check your contract first of all and make sure that it doesn't stipulate a certain length of time based on service.

Assuming not, or you don't have access to it, then the minimum notice you should give is the period you get paid. I.e if you're paid monthly, give a month, if your paid weekly, a week and so on. You can of course give more, but this is the minimum requirement from your side.

Good luck!
I don't have a copy of the contact of employment and probably neither do they as so many things have been added over the years, but I do know that I have to give one month's notice.

It's been suggested to me via pm that I look at constructive dismissal, I've done a google and it does seem that stating that Saturday's near 14 hour shift was the final straw could work in my favour if I were to go down that route. Just so bloody tired these days, clear thought is at a premium.

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Re: Giving notice

Post by Groomyd »

Constructive dismissal is a really tough thing to prove at a tribunal

You have to demonstrate that your work has become unbearable and that anyone in your situation would have been unable to continue

Furthermore it could impact on future employment prospects

Unless you had been through a set of meetings with the managers to get your hours reduced which were all documented and could show you had made your deteriorating health a clear and linked matter to them then you would struggle based on what you have said.

So your first step if you want to battle this is to draw a line in the sand - meet with HR/management, state that you can and will only work to your contracted hours - mention EU working time regulations - and then see what they come back with.

If they then cross that line over and over then you could then have a case - but you the have a long a no stressful tribunal process at the end of which you won't make a fortune.................... And a high chance of losing still

How easy is it for you to get another job?

And alternative is just to move on tough as that may feel - it may be the path of least resistance to you and your family?
Last edited by Groomyd on 23 Dec 2013, 17:59, edited 1 time in total.

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bluenosey
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Re: Giving notice

Post by bluenosey »

Good post by Groomyd. If you're in a Union - which is advisable - I would also seek advice from them.

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WilBert
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Re: Giving notice

Post by WilBert »

Well said Groomy, I was constructing a similar response. Re constructive dismissal - the fight is usually not worth it. The (negative) energy it takes, the toll on you and your family, let alone the time is not very often worth it. What will you reasonably get, maybe a few months pay?

Principled men find it hardest to move on when there is so much wrong behind them. This wrong is not of your making so give yourself a break and move on with as clear concience as possible. Minimum notice is fine but if it helps you feel better about leaving give more.

I assume you've had a number of discussions with management and asked them to make some reasonable adjustments, if not it maybe worth asking again and quoting working time regs.

Is working a reduced week for your health, finances, sanity and it may allow you time to look for a job a realistic option?

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Re: Giving notice

Post by Vid »

Groomyd wrote:Constructive dismissal is a really tough thing to prove at a tribunal

You have to demonstrate that your work has become unbearable and that anyone in your situation would have been unable to continue

Furthermore it could impact on future employment prospects

Unless you had been through a set of meetings with the managers to get your hours reduced which were all documented and could show you had made your deteriorating health a clear and linked matter to them then you would struggle based on what you have said.

So your first step if you want to battle this is to draw a line in the sand - meet with HR/management, state that you can and will only work to your contracted hours - mention EU working time regulations - and then see what they come back with.

If they then cross that line over and over then you could then have a case - but you the have a long a no stressful tribunal process at the end of which you won't make a fortune.................... And a high chance of losing still

How easy is it for you to get another job?

And alternative is just to move on tough as that may feel - it may be the path of least resistance to you and your family?
Got to admit the CD idea wasn't something I considered at all, pure and simply the job has gone beyond my physical and mental tolerance levels and it's way past time to move on. I'm not in the union and it's a bit late now :-) they are very weak and disunited which has led to constant the erosion of working conditions over the past few years.

Finding another job "should" be straightforward enough, 30 years experience should count for something, there are jobs going that are immediate start willing to take those with little to no experience and even with 9 points on their licence :shock: how "good" those jobs and rates of pay are could well be a different matter. I also have the option of agency work which should be easy to come by, only issue is that nothing is guaranteed and there are some very shit jobs out there.

The notice goes in tomorrow to fit in with holidays that I have booked, the CD thought may well be a red herring, the main question I have is how much detail do I go into in the letter as to my reasons for leaving?

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Re: Giving notice

Post by Giggs11 »

I didn`t think it would be that tough being a mod :shock:

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Vid
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Re: Giving notice

Post by Vid »

WilBert wrote: I assume you've had a number of discussions with management and asked them to make some reasonable adjustments, if not it maybe worth asking again and quoting working time regs.
Being transport industry we have different rules regarding WTD to most others, they're now pushing things with some (me included) to the limit but not crossing the line by the letter of the law. Given the time of day that we start work we had the right to a maximum of 10 hours work per shift, the union gave that right away for nothing in return.

One issue is that I have 6 managers that rotate that do not communicate effectively with each other, it would take at least 6 further discussions (one with each) that may or may not make a difference.

There's another change coming up in the near future, again something that that the union permitted to be added to the contracts with no thought to how it could be interpreted, more work, longer hours, absolutely no compensation for it. Now is the time to go, it's not going to get any better.

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Vid
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Re: Giving notice

Post by Vid »

Giggs11 wrote:I didn`t think it would be that tough being a mod :shock:
That part of life would be simplified by banning anyone whose user name begins with "G" :D

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Re: Giving notice

Post by blahblah »

Vid wrote:
One issue is that I have 6 managers that rotate that do not communicate effectively with each other,
:shock:

and

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Sounds like carnage to me.

Some wise owl on here may know if handing in notice precludes CD action.

Do all the drivers break the law re hours? (I am assumng that yours do.)

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Re: Giving notice

Post by Dennisthemenace »

You've already made the decision, so now the only thing is to get out of the company with as little hassle as possible. Give the proper notice, make sure you sit down with HR and agree it. Never leave on bad terms.

In your letter write about how much you've loved working for the company but you've felt like a change for a while. Wish them every success for the future

That's about it.

You may be asked to do an exit interview, but even then I wouldn't say anything negative. Just say you and your family want a change. New year, new job, new life and all that.

Focus your time and energy on the future, use it to find a dream job that's great for you and don't be too bothered about a company that isn't that bothered about you.

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Re: Giving notice

Post by Ashers »

Who do you work for Vid?

Where are you located?

I read your first post and thought you were going to walk from Fiso and nearly cried. :cry: Was happy, when I read on and saw you were staying. :D

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Vid
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Re: Giving notice

Post by Vid »

blahblah wrote:
Some wise owl on here may know if handing in notice precludes CD action.

Do all the drivers break the law re hours? (I am assumng that yours do.)
A google on CD says the you need to quit first then take the action, probably not a route I'd go down in any eventuality but now that it's been brought to my attention ..........

There are drivers that do things that they shouldn't and will continue to do so to get finished quicker, fine whilst nobody takes any notice but should VOSA (or whatever they're called now) happen to watch them one day, check their tachographs and then go through everyone else's, there will be real carnage. My hours are legal, I don't break the law (well not those laws) which is why I am working 1/2/3 hours longer than the route drivers.

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Re: Giving notice

Post by Groomyd »

blahblah wrote: Some wise owl on here may know if handing in notice precludes CD action.

)
No it doesn't - you can even continue working and start a CD action

However if you handed in your notice having not already highlighted why you are going, the measures you have taken to resolve it, the lack of measures taken by management to resolve it then you have zero chance of winning.

Tribunals look very dimly on cases where both sides have not gone to every possible length to comprise or resolve issues using the mechanisms in place (grievance and disciplinary procedures) at work.

Tribunals are there as a last resort.

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Re: Giving notice

Post by blahblah »

So should continue working, then?

(Personally having 6 rotating mangers should be enough :? )

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Re: Giving notice

Post by WilBert »

As DNM says Vid. Keep it short and keep it sweet. Brave man, enjoy the Christmas :D

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Re: Giving notice

Post by Vid »

Dennisthemenace wrote:You've already made the decision, so now the only thing is to get out of the company with as little hassle as possible. Give the proper notice, make sure you sit down with HR and agree it. Never leave on bad terms.

In your letter write about how much you've loved working for the company but you've felt like a change for a while. Wish them every success for the future

That's about it.

You may be asked to do an exit interview, but even then I wouldn't say anything negative. Just say you and your family want a change. New year, new job, new life and all that.

Focus your time and energy on the future, use it to find a dream job that's great for you and don't be too bothered about a company that isn't that bothered about you.
I can do the no hassle bit, apart from the missus insisting on giving reasons and going against her is likely to cause a whole lot more hassle!

I can't lie and wish them the best for the future, nothing would please me more than seeing the parent company going out of business, complete bunch of tossers!

I'm too old for a "dream job" just something that I can do that isn't killing me too quickly will do :-)

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Vid
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Re: Giving notice

Post by Vid »

Groomyd wrote:
blahblah wrote: Some wise owl on here may know if handing in notice precludes CD action.

)
No it doesn't - you can even continue working and start a CD action

However if you handed in your notice having not already highlighted why you are going, the measures you have taken to resolve it, the lack of measures taken by management to resolve it then you have zero chance of winning.

Tribunals look very dimly on cases where both sides have not gone to every possible length to comprise or resolve issues using the mechanisms in place (grievance and disciplinary procedures) at work.

Tribunals are there as a last resort.
You've convinced me that it's not a course of action to take, just get out a simply as possible and get on with my life, thanks!

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Re: Giving notice

Post by blahblah »

It depends what can be gained by pursuing it?

I wish I had done one of mine for it, or bullying, tbh.

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Re: Giving notice

Post by Dennisthemenace »

Tell your Mrs life is too short. Keeping your CV intact is the most crucial for your future. You will quickly forget this place and move on to something you really want to do (as long as they give you a decent reference :wink: ) Play the game mate, buy your HR manager a decent box of chocs thanking her for her help and take your 6 bosses out for pint.

Then have a little grin to yourself about how you've 'played them' on the way home :wink:

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Re: Giving notice

Post by murf »

Stick to the basics. Walk away. Once you are free, nothing else matters. Say anything and it could just linger on. Once you are out you won't give a shit any more so why do something which could string it all out???

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Re: Giving notice

Post by bigsheff »

+1 to above.

If you want leave just leave.

If they ask you why, be honest. If they are bothered about you they may do something about it, if not then you'll 100% know your doing the right thing.

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Re: Giving notice

Post by Edmondson »

I'd say keep it simple, you are literally just informing them that you intend to leave and state with one months notice this means your last day will be xxxx.

- wouldn't include reasons, or have a pop or a moan at conditions

- equally wouldn't lay on the charm / lies etc. absolutely no need

Reference would most likely be just confirming you did work there for the dates you indicated to new employer. It's not going to be any different just because you didn't wish the company well.

I'd definitely echo the comments about looking forward, moving on. I'd hope once you hand it in tomorrow you'd feel a whole lot better about things, weight off your mind etc.

Merry Xmas :)

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Re: Giving notice

Post by blahblah »

Burning bridges and not trusting the reference is bad, imho.

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Re: Giving notice

Post by Achiles74 »

I take it your a truck driver vid, have you considered as a option once you leave retraining as a bus driver? I have a friend who drives one, they are much in demand, good rates of pay, health and safety regulations prevent you being asked to work over your hours as well.

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Re: Giving notice

Post by tedbull »

I'm in a similar position. My conscience won't let me go without offering some feedback for the poor bigger left behind.

Personally I'll resign politely. Then offer informal constructive feedback to someone in a senior position outside of HR. Those HR kyunts are more trouble than they're worth.

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Bunners
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Re: Giving notice

Post by Bunners »

All sound advice from Groomy on this.....move on for the sake of your health and family, CD would be impossible to improve, if management are the way you say then I would also suggest that giving any feedback would be a pointless exercise (might make you feel better, but also think about the longer term consequences....)

The management at my firm work people for 45/50 hours a week when they are contracted to do 37.....managements response if you dont like it eff off........the turnover of staff is remarkable....

Other than that ....Good luck!!

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Re: Giving notice

Post by stevejtr »

tedbull wrote:I'm in a similar position. Those HR kyunts are more trouble than they're worth.
I have a theory about HR.

I believe they are all funded by central government.

Lets be honest. The reason they go into HR is because otherwise they'd be totally unemployable and therefore costing the country a fortune

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