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Week 15 KCs and MotM Nov 25th 26th

A Forum holding the historic Key Contributions (KCs) and Man of The Matches (MOTM) data from TFF from 2005 up to May 2007
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Jameselaprendi
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Post by Jameselaprendi »

I'll explain it the way i see it.

They deemed Rooney's pass to have taken out defenders, Saha took 1 touch and shot from the edge of the box.

Ekotto's ball took out defenders but Bervbatov took multiple touches then shot. KC negated.

Kuyt's ball didnt take out any defenders, no KC, obvious etc.

Im sorry but I dont see any motivation for favouritism.

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unhappyhoppy
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Post by unhappyhoppy »

Jameselaprendi wrote:I'll explain it the way i see it.

They deemed Rooney's pass to have taken out defenders, Saha took 1 touch and shot from the edge of the box.

Ekotto's ball took out defenders but Bervbatov took multiple touches then shot. KC negated.

Kuyt's ball didnt take out any defenders, no KC, obvious etc.

Im sorry but I dont see any motivation for favouritism.
No way did Rooneys pass take out any defenders. You could see Terrys disappointment on his face in that he couldn't believe Saha could score from that position. No one can say I'm biased on thsi one. :D

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Post by yeboah »

Does it matter if it 'takes out defenders'? Kuyts interception contributed to Gerrard's goal - he would never have had the opportunity if it wasnt for Kuyt..

(im trying to cover for my Henry > Kuyt transfer :P )

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Post by JonPerkins »

..apologies if double posted

..from the Telegraph's email link sent to managers, and just to sum up th whole weekend:

HERE'S HOW THE POINTS WERE SCORED ON SATURDAY AND SUNDAY:

Fulham 0 Reading 1
Goal: Doyle
Key Contributions (KCs): none
Booked: Harper, Ingimarsson, Sonko
Sent Off: Pearce
Man-of-the-Match (MOTM): Doyle

Aston Villa 1 Middlesbrough 1
Goals: Barry, Christie
KCs: Petrov, Yakubu
Booked: Barry, Schwarzer, Pogatetz, Huth
MOTM: Boateng

West Ham 1 Sheff Utd 0
Goal: Mullins
KCs: Etherington, Ferdinand
Booked: Mullins, Bowyer, Montgomery, Gillespie, Hulse, Kozluk
MOTM: Mullins

Tottenham Hotspur 3 Wigan 1
Goals: Defoe, Berbatov, Lennon, Camara
KCs: Berbatov x2, Wright, McCulloch
Booked: Zokora, Dawson, Boyce, Baines, Heskey, Skoko
MOTM: Berbatov

Newcastle 1 Portsmouth 0
Goal: Sibierski
KCs: Martins, N'Zogbia
Booked: Bramble, Solano, Thompson, Stefanovic
MOTM: Dyer

Man Utd 1 Chelsea 1
Goals: Saha, Carvalho
KCs: Rooney, Lampard
Booked: Carrick, Makelele, Drogba, A Cole
MOTM: Ferdinand

Bolton 3 Arsenal 1
Goals: Faye, Anelka x 2, Gilberto Silva
KCs: Diouf, Campo, Fabregas
Booked: Davies, Fortune, Campo, Ljungberg, Lehmann, Senderos, Toure
MOTM: Anelka

Liverpool 1 Man City 0
Goal: Gerrard
KCs: None
Booked: Garcia, Carragher, Thatcher
MOTM: Gerrard

Charlton 1 Everton 1
Goals: Reid, O.G
KCs: Arteta, Osman
Booked: El Karkouri, Hreidarsson
MOTM: Reid
:

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Jameselaprendi
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Post by Jameselaprendi »

Well, personally I didnt think Rooney's ball took out all the defence, but it certainly took out some.

Having seen Berb's goal again just now I have to admit he didnt take that many touches but they were more significant (i.e. they took out more defenders.)

Maybe they deemed Rooney's pass to have taken out enough defenders to put Saha in a goal scoring position (i.e. he didnt need to take out more defenders to be able to place a shot and score). Whereas Ekotto's pass although taking out a lot of players didnt leave Berbatov able to shoot without taking out more defenders himself, thus becoming his own KC.

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Bramernic
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Post by Bramernic »

Saturdays all as predicted. :D

Without reviewing the footage again (which I haven't got time to do at the moment :cry: ), the definition of long-range refers to the actual shot and is a grey area including the penalty area, the D and a bit more. I don't think it matters exactly where the ball is picked up, more how many defenders have been taken out by the pass versus how many remain to be taken out by the shot. In Saha's case there were two next to him plus the keeper, but the accuracy of Rooney's pass meant that he could touch it to the left and manoeuvre to shoot past the keeper.

Of all the KCs, A-E's was the one I was least confident of. I actually wrote poss on my notes but this got lost in the typing (which was done after the cricket and I was getting tired).

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Post by thelip »

Bramernic wrote:
Of all the KCs, A-E's was the one I was least confident of. I actually wrote poss on my notes but this got lost in the typing (which was done after the cricket and I was getting tired).
Nonetheless, another exemplary effort on your behalf Bramernic to get 99% of them correct again. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks your contributions are invaluable.

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Post by Doogal »

I reckon the Telegraph just copy Bram :wink: Brilliant work again.

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Post by cleski »

i think the problem is with the term Key Contribution. I personally think kuyt's contribution was more "key" to gerrard scoring than Rooney's was to saha.

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Post by murf »

cleski wrote:i think the problem is with the term Key Contribution. I personally think kuyt's contribution was more "key" to gerrard scoring than Rooney's was to saha.
True. After the final pass/interception Gerrard was in a far better position when recieving the ball than Saha so you could say Kuyt's intervention was more 'key' than Rooney's although Rooney's was arguably a better contributon. Kuyt's was never a KC even by my limited knowledge of GFM thinking.

I'm just going to give up second guessing debatable ones and assume I won't get them until Bramernic tells me they are likely!

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Post by axel »

Got a quick response from the Telegraph on this one, it must have caused lots of debate in the office this morning!

"Dear Mr Jones

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

After Berbatov received the initial pass from Assou-Ekotto he had too much work to do before the goal was scored. He took 3 touches, including nutmegging a defender before hitting the ball from 18 or so yards.

Rooney's pass was pinpoint accurate and played Saha in - Saha then took 1 touch to contol and place the shot. Without Rooney's pass, Saha would not have been able to get in the goalscoring position so the initial pass was key to the goal been scored.

Kind regards"

I've followed this up with a question about the Kuyt KC.

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Post by axel »

An answer already!

"Kuyt won the ball about 30 yards from goal - he slid in and won a tackle which fell to Gerrard. We have never awarded a KC for a player winning a tackle which results in a goal been scored."

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Post by murf »

axel wrote:An answer already!

"Kuyt won the ball about 30 yards from goal - he slid in and won a tackle which fell to Gerrard. We have never awarded a KC for a player winning a tackle which results in a goal been scored."
Thats doing a massive dis-service to Kuyt. To me he deliberately got the ball to Gerrard as part of the tackle.

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Post by ghost77uk »

I don't have Rooney in any of my teams & I'm clearly no United fan, but I think the panel got it spot on giving him the KC - Was a fantastic pass that led to the goal.

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Post by Bramernic »

murf wrote:
axel wrote:An answer already!

"Kuyt won the ball about 30 yards from goal - he slid in and won a tackle which fell to Gerrard. We have never awarded a KC for a player winning a tackle which results in a goal been scored."
Thats doing a massive dis-service to Kuyt. To me he deliberately got the ball to Gerrard as part of the tackle.
I agree, but they do say that they've never awarded a KC for winning a tackle which results in a goal been (sic) scored. Plus, hats off to them for actually answering the questions and explaining it. Too often they've hidden behind the "no correspondance will be entered into" clause. At least we all know now why some were and some weren't.

Thanks also to axel for asking and posting the replies.

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Post by anon6 »

Timely, and excellent replies from the Telegraph.

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Post by chaser2k4 »

Rooney kc was very debatable and ferdinand rather than vidic. :shock:

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Post by Judio »

Winter did mention three players in his report

He said Sky gave MotM to Carrick but the three contenders
for him were Vidic Essien and Ferdinand


Now which one of those three is English :wink:

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Post by snowy »

doh! logged in this afternoon and saw bram saying all the kcs were as predicted. Horrah i thought - BAE finally gets a KC...but i've just checked again and boooo, it's not to be :(

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Post by Mystery »

snowy wrote:doh! logged in this afternoon and saw bram saying all the kcs were as predicted. Horrah i thought - BAE finally gets a KC...but i've just checked again and boooo, it's not to be :(
Think he said all the Saturday ones were as predicted. Sunday was when most of the dodgy ones happened.

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Post by Striker »

Top marks to the Telegraph for replying so quickly and not hiding behind "no correspondence will be .........."

However while based on past analogies and their own guidelines, they were totally correct to disallow KCs for Ekotto and Kuyt, I think that they've made a bollox of giving Wayne a KC. Saha didn't exactly pass the ball into the net without a bit of "preparation". Good close control and moving the ball cleverly after receiving it is as relevant to "work done after receiving the ball" as running 10 yards with it. First Telegraph decision this season which is really inconsistent in my book.

If it had been Vaz Te to Davies, you can bet that they wouldn't have given a KC whatever they claim.

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Post by greenman »

Striker wrote:they've made a bollox of giving Wayne a KC. First Telegraph decision this season which is really inconsistent in my book.
My thoughts exactly after seeing the KC awards yesterday. Saha did far too much to make the goal and it was outside the area. Unusually Bram called the KC too.

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Post by dellboy30 »

I had rooneys down as a KC in the same way they gave FFL one against Liverpool ( :?: ) when he crossed from deep & wide into Drogba outside the box, took a touch, turned and scored

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Post by Tricky Tree »

greenman wrote:
Striker wrote:they've made a bollox of giving Wayne a KC. First Telegraph decision this season which is really inconsistent in my book.
My thoughts exactly after seeing the KC awards yesterday. Saha did far too much to make the goal and it was outside the area. Unusually Bram called the KC too.
agree

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Post by Jameselaprendi »

Tricky Tree wrote:
greenman wrote:
Striker wrote:they've made a bollox of giving Wayne a KC. First Telegraph decision this season which is really inconsistent in my book.
My thoughts exactly after seeing the KC awards yesterday. Saha did far too much to make the goal and it was outside the area. Unusually Bram called the KC too.
agree
Come on guys. Cant you just admit that you dont fully understand why KCs are given? The forum expert Bramernic predicted Rooney to get the KC and was accurate as usual. This proves consistency in my book.

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Post by dan1man »

exactly - if Bram called it it must be right.

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Post by murf »

Jameselaprendi wrote:Come on guys. Cant you just admit that you dont fully understand why KCs are given? The forum expert Bramernic predicted Rooney to get the KC and was accurate as usual. This proves consistency in my book.
Maybe Bram (subconsciously?) took account of the inherent ManU KC bias? :wink:

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