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Week 13 KCs and MotM Nov 11th 12th

A Forum holding the historic Key Contributions (KCs) and Man of The Matches (MOTM) data from TFF from 2005 up to May 2007
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tedbull
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Post by tedbull »

yeboah wrote:After watching MOTD i think Carvalho should definatly get a KC - did quite a lot of work for the goal..

Also Kirkland should get 2 assists - premierleague.com gave him them..
Premierleague don't give KCs. They give assists to the last person to touch the ball. Very different. I'd be very surprised to see a keeper get a KC in this game (could still happen, though)

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Post by yeboah »

tedbull2002 wrote:
yeboah wrote:After watching MOTD i think Carvalho should definatly get a KC - did quite a lot of work for the goal..

Also Kirkland should get 2 assists - premierleague.com gave him them..
Premierleague don't give KCs. They give assists to the last person to touch the ball. Very different. I'd be very surprised to see a keeper get a KC in this game (could still happen, though)
Yeah true - but id be very surprised if Kirkland didnt get a KC for the first goal - im not bothered tho as i dont have him hehe

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Post by PSA »

Raisin wrote:Bram

You don't see a possibility of a KC for Chris Kirkland for either of the first two goals? Thought the first particularly might qualify.

No axe to grind on this one. Just interested in your reasoning.

Have they given CS's for 'keepers before? I remember last season i was sure i'd have one for VDS as it was a long punt with no deflections...but he didn't get it.

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Post by Raisin »

Don't recall seeing a 'keeper KC before. But there's nothing in the rules excluding 'keepers from consideration.

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Post by reds363 »

Mark Crossley got a KC last season, I don't remember that particular goal though. Maik Taylor got one a few years ago, I remember thinking it was because he intentionally set Forssell in on goal rather than it being a lucky punt upfield.

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Post by Hammertime »

Spurs 1 Reading 0
Robbie Keane penalty (Ghaly brought down)

Spurs 1 Reading 1
Shorey from outside area

Reading 2 Spurs 1
Sidwell, not sure who took corner though?

Reading 3 Spurs 1
Doyle (Lita KC)
Last edited by Hammertime on 12 Nov 2006, 15:27, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by Bramernic »

To answer the various questions ...

1) They do give KCs to goalkeepers, but very infrequently. As has been mentioned, it needs to be clearly a planned move rather than a punt upfield. In both cases yesterday I would say Kirkland was simply going route 1 and hoping someone got on the end.

2) It doesn't matter how much work a player does, the contribution is only a KC if it is key to the goal being scored. A defender could have taken the ball from one end of the field to the other but if he then passed 2-3 feet to the scorer it's unlikely that a KC would be given. Carvalho's pass was borderline in my view, it should get a KC but I wouldn't bet my last pound on it. It also depends whether they think Shevchenko touched it. If they do, he'll get the KC and not Carvalho.

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Post by chaser2k4 »

Bramernic wrote:To answer the various questions ...

1) They do give KCs to goalkeepers, but very infrequently. As has been mentioned, it needs to be clearly a planned move rather than a punt upfield. In both cases yesterday I would say Kirkland was simply going route 1 and hoping someone got on the end.

2) It doesn't matter how much work a player does, the contribution is only a KC if it is key to the goal being scored. A defender could have taken the ball from one end of the field to the other but if he then passed 2-3 feet to the scorer it's unlikely that a KC would be given. Carvalho's pass was borderline in my view, it should get a KC but I wouldn't bet my last pound on it. It also depends whether they think Shevchenko touched it. If they do, he'll get the KC and not Carvalho.
Hanhemann could get one for the doyle goal!

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Post by thespecialone »

reading 3 spurs 1

keane(ghaly)
shorey()
sidwell(little)
doyle(lita)

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Post by nickchild »

Bramernic wrote:To answer the various questions ...

1) They do give KCs to goalkeepers, but very infrequently. As has been mentioned, it needs to be clearly a planned move rather than a punt upfield. In both cases yesterday I would say Kirkland was simply going route 1 and hoping someone got on the end.

2) It doesn't matter how much work a player does, the contribution is only a KC if it is key to the goal being scored. A defender could have taken the ball from one end of the field to the other but if he then passed 2-3 feet to the scorer it's unlikely that a KC would be given. Carvalho's pass was borderline in my view, it should get a KC but I wouldn't bet my last pound on it. It also depends whether they think Shevchenko touched it. If they do, he'll get the KC and not Carvalho.
i hate to question you bram, as your opinion is held in high regard on this forum, but surely if someone dribbled the length of the pitch before passing to the goal scorer, surely this would count as a KC, because if the run hadn't been made, the goal would never have been scored. i'll be interested to hear why you think not

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Post by nickchild »

Bramernic wrote:To answer the various questions ...

1) They do give KCs to goalkeepers, but very infrequently. As has been mentioned, it needs to be clearly a planned move rather than a punt upfield. In both cases yesterday I would say Kirkland was simply going route 1 and hoping someone got on the end.

2) It doesn't matter how much work a player does, the contribution is only a KC if it is key to the goal being scored. A defender could have taken the ball from one end of the field to the other but if he then passed 2-3 feet to the scorer it's unlikely that a KC would be given. Carvalho's pass was borderline in my view, it should get a KC but I wouldn't bet my last pound on it. It also depends whether they think Shevchenko touched it. If they do, he'll get the KC and not Carvalho.
i hate to question you bram, as your opinion is held in high regard on this forum, but surely if someone dribbled the length of the pitch before passing to the goal scorer, surely this would count as a KC, because if the run hadn't been made, the goal would never have been scored. i'll be interested to hear why you think not.

also, if a player gets a KC for taking a corner, surely kirkland will get one. the reason i say this is that a corner taker is usually just lumping it into the box with the hope one of his players will get on the end of it, not necessarily AIMING at the goalscorer, similar to kirklands 'long ball' ???

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Post by Jameselaprendi »

nickchild wrote:
Bramernic wrote:To answer the various questions ...

1) They do give KCs to goalkeepers, but very infrequently. As has been mentioned, it needs to be clearly a planned move rather than a punt upfield. In both cases yesterday I would say Kirkland was simply going route 1 and hoping someone got on the end.

2) It doesn't matter how much work a player does, the contribution is only a KC if it is key to the goal being scored. A defender could have taken the ball from one end of the field to the other but if he then passed 2-3 feet to the scorer it's unlikely that a KC would be given. Carvalho's pass was borderline in my view, it should get a KC but I wouldn't bet my last pound on it. It also depends whether they think Shevchenko touched it. If they do, he'll get the KC and not Carvalho.
i hate to question you bram, as your opinion is held in high regard on this forum, but surely if someone dribbled the length of the pitch before passing to the goal scorer, surely this would count as a KC, because if the run hadn't been made, the goal would never have been scored. i'll be interested to hear why you think not.

also, if a player gets a KC for taking a corner, surely kirkland will get one. the reason i say this is that a corner taker is usually just lumping it into the box with the hope one of his players will get on the end of it, not necessarily AIMING at the goalscorer, similar to kirklands 'long ball' ???
There is a highly technical set of rules governing how to give a KC in this game. There is little room for exceptions to be made to the physical conditions that have to be fulfilled for KC or KCs to be given.

You're questions to Bram are unfounded, because all he's doing is (expertly) applying the rules. Your points are certainly good points and a debate could be had but it wont change the rules of the game.
Last edited by Jameselaprendi on 12 Nov 2006, 16:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Bramernic »

nickchild wrote:i hate to question you bram, as your opinion is held in high regard on this forum, but surely if someone dribbled the length of the pitch before passing to the goal scorer, surely this would count as a KC, because if the run hadn't been made, the goal would never have been scored. i'll be interested to hear why you think not.
Experience suggests that if the pass doesn't split the defence (or at least take out a defender) then it won't get a KC.
nickchild wrote:also, if a player gets a KC for taking a corner, surely kirkland will get one. the reason i say this is that a corner taker is usually just lumping it into the box with the hope one of his players will get on the end of it, not necessarily AIMING at the goalscorer, similar to kirklands 'long ball' ???
I think if you spoke to people like Lampard, Giggs etc that they would dispute this assertion.

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Post by chaser2k4 »

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Post by HERO OF CANTON »

I'm with Bram on this one. While it's key; so it is when an attacker diverts the ball into the path of the teammate to school. It's accidental, and he never gets the KC.

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Post by chaser2k4 »

Bramernic wrote:
nickchild wrote:i hate to question you bram, as your opinion is held in high regard on this forum, but surely if someone dribbled the length of the pitch before passing to the goal scorer, surely this would count as a KC, because if the run hadn't been made, the goal would never have been scored. i'll be interested to hear why you think not.
Experience suggests that if the pass doesn't split the defence (or at least take out a defender) then it won't get a KC.
nickchild wrote:also, if a player gets a KC for taking a corner, surely kirkland will get one. the reason i say this is that a corner taker is usually just lumping it into the box with the hope one of his players will get on the end of it, not necessarily AIMING at the goalscorer, similar to kirklands 'long ball' ???
I think if you spoke to people like Lampard, Giggs etc that they would dispute this assertion.
The corner dispute is a strange one, mainly, because teams practice where they are going to put the set pieces, there not just "lumping" it in there, but i like the saying none the less! (right ole english saying), so kc's are gained rightfully from corners and free-kicks!

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Post by chaser2k4 »

Arsenal 3 - 0 Liverpool

Flamini (Hleb,Fab)
Toure (RVP)
Gallas(RVP)

Motm Prediction: Clichy.

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Post by KaKaMyPants »

chaser2k4 wrote:Arsenal 3 - 0 Liverpool

Flamini (Hleb,Fab)
Toure (RVP)
Gallas(RVP)

Motm Prediction: Clichy.
MOM Gallas for me but I dont mind it being Clinchy.

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Post by T-boy »

tedbull2002 wrote:
thepole wrote:
T-boy wrote:
db83 wrote:
Crookface wrote:Watching

Sutton Goal :(
Osbourne Assist
Any chance you reckon Agbonlohor will get on in all?
I would say no. Osbourne took two touches...one to control, one to cross....so definitely Sutton (Osbourne)
Normally two touches will not negate a KC, this season there has been cases where three touches has still resulted in two KCs.

I won't speculate on whether Gabby will get the KC though, as I haven't seen it.
I saw it and there's absolutely no chance. He played a 5 yard ball backwards (35 yards from goal by the touchline) and it took no players out of the game.

This is why there is another thread in the forum.
I know there is another thread....but there was a question asked and I felt it needed answering! This two thread matchday thing is very confusing :S I read the forum every day so am okay with it...but I can imagine that to somebody who only visits on occassions that its all confusing!

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Post by Razorback »

KaKaMyPants wrote:
chaser2k4 wrote:Arsenal 3 - 0 Liverpool

Flamini (Hleb,Fab)
Toure (RVP)
Gallas(RVP)

Motm Prediction: Clichy.
MOM Gallas for me but I dont mind it being Clinchy.
Surely they'll give it to Fabregas (they normally do :wink: )...

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Post by scarletjim »

chaser2k4 wrote:Arsenal 3 - 0 Liverpool

Flamini (Hleb,Fab)
Toure (RVP)
Gallas(RVP)

Motm Prediction: Clichy.
Funny how people see things so differently. I thought MOTM was Hleb or Eboue (but won't be complaining if Clichy gets it :wink: , to be fair he was also good).

PS I'm one of the relatively few people speculating on MOTM who hasn't been drinking all day (very unusual for me on a Sunday! :) )

PPS Not meaning to offend anyone on here by the way, I mean all the drunk people in the pub speculating (one said MOTM was Hyypia! :shock: )

EDIT: Sorry, just realised this NOT the speculation thread. :oops:

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Post by DixieDean »

Stop speculating about people's drinking habits!!! :wink: :wink: :wink:

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Post by macca20m »

Just a quick point....surely if carvalho gets a KC for running down the line to lay it off to geremi to cross, agbonlahor will get one for doing the same for villas goal. IMO none should stand but just a point

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Post by pixies »

macca20m wrote:Just a quick point....surely if carvalho gets a KC for running down the line to lay it off to geremi to cross, agbonlahor will get one for doing the same for villas goal. IMO none should stand but just a point
I agree, it was Agbonlahor's hassling that won possesion, plus Osborne only had one touch to cross.

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Post by PSA »

Just got back from the Arsenal game and wanted to add to the MoM talk. I'm thinking Kolo Toure should get it, he was outstanding today. Good tackling, good in the air against the beanpole and capped off with a goal. Same could go for Gallas but Kolo made many more tackles.

Won't and shouldn't be Eboue (Although i have in all teams). He was ok, but has had much better games and wasn't making the forward runs he did before injury. Same goes for Clichy, he was good but there were more dominate players on the pitch.

Just my opinion.

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Post by dukeg »

MOTM from website (so far)

Sheff Utd vs Bolton >Diouf
MBoro vs West Ham >Maccarone
Blackburn vs Man Utd >Saha
Man City vs Newcastle >Barton
Portsmouth vs Fulham >Niemi

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Post by tonyp »

official MOTMs from tomorrow's paper:

Toure
Sidwell
Barton
Ronaldo
Niemi
Cattermole
Drogba
Kazim-Richards
Reid
McCann

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Post by PSA »

Well that's confusing as we have conflicting details...

Did i call Toure? I think so! (If above post is correct)

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Post by Jameselaprendi »

:?

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Post by dilwar »

tonyp wrote:official MOTMs from tomorrow's paper:

Toure
Sidwell
Barton
Ronaldo
Niemi
Cattermole
Drogba
Kazim-Richards
Reid
McCann
You didn't say which paper you were reading, is it the Telegraph? Seems that the Man U MOTM conflicts with the above post.

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