Are this Spanish team the greatest of all time?

[Tacalabala]

Yep, big statement, but the facts speak for themselves:

• First team to win three successive tournaments - Euro 2008, WC 2010, Euro 2012
• First team to defend the European Championships
• Achieved the biggest winning margin in a major tournament final - 4-0 Italy
• Haven't lost a knockout game at an international tournament since WC 2006 (vs France)
• Have arguably perfected the tiki-taka style
• The core of the side - Xavi, Iniesta, Torres, Puyol, Pique - are multiple Champions League winners

Personally, I think their toughest challenge is yet to come - defend the WC in Brazil's backyard and the argument ends...

[thebillfella]

Wasn't alive to see the Brazil 1970 side but they are far and away the best international team I have ever witnessed.

The Barca team are better because they are essentially the same side plus Messi.

[Surprised]

I think the last time they conceded a goal in the knockout stages was 2008 Euros

[murf]

Probably the most consistently good over successive years but not necessarily the best individual one off / one year team - but then again we (Europe) only saw Brazil once every 4 years and I wasn't really alive / old enough to comment on the Pele era.

[Tacalabala]

I've often thought that I should take the time to actually watch the 1970 final - since it's the off-season, perhaps we should organise something?

[mikeg13]

Depends on definition of best, Spain have done something not done before, so in those terms probably the best, but if had to choose a team to watch it would not be them, for me that would either be that Brazil side or Cruyfs Holland, good as Spain are they dont thrill me as those 2 did, maybe me getting older.
For me its bit like painting by numbers there style of play, result perfect but little soul on the canvas. Watched game last night and not once in game did I get any real sense of watching something special. Fully understand how others will see it differently but thats my take on them.

[Ashers]

The Barca team are better because they are essentially the same side plus Messi.

Have to disagree with this statement due to the following Spanish players pushing for 1st team spots into the Barcelona team:

Casillas
Ramos
Arbeloa
Torres when on form
Alonso
Silva

[johnF]

In a word, no. (IMO).

Their performance last night was admittedly very impressive, but before Hansen, Shearer et al get too carried away maybe its worth looking back over Spains whole tournament.

Group stage
Drew with Italy 1 -1. I actually thought Italy were the better team in their group match.
Beat Ireland 4 - 0. Ireland were extremely poor.
Narrowly beat Croatia 1-0 with a late goal to qualify.

Knock out
Beat a terrible France side 2-0 in what was one of the worst matches I've seen in a long time.
Drew 0-0 with Portugal and scraped through on penalties. If Fabregas penalty had been a couple of cm to the left it would have bounced off the post rather than gone in off and they might have gone out.

Yes their recent achievements in winning trophies is impressive but they don't inspire or excite me in the way that some of the great teams of the past did.

Best team I've ever seen is Brazil 1982 (Zico, Socrates, Falcao, Eder etc). They didn't win the world cup (due to dodgy defending) but were a pure joy to watch. Check out youtube clips if you're too young to remember. I'm too young to remember 1970 brazil but from what I've seen they were similarly brilliant.

This Spain team are good at winning trophies and keeping posession but the best team of all time needs to have something more than that IMO.

[murf]

This Spain team are good at winning trophies and keeping posession but the best team of all time needs to have something more than that IMO.

A centre forward?

[Matty B]

The Barca team are better because they are essentially the same side plus Messi.

Have to disagree with this statement due to the following Spanish players pushing for 1st team spots into the Barcelona team:

Casillas
Ramos
Arbeloa
Torres when on form
Alonso
Silva

I agree with thebillfella ...

Casillas - Valdes
Ramos - Puyol
Arbeloa - Dani Alves
Torres - Villa
Alonso - Messi
Silva - Alexis Sanchez

I think the barca players on the right just edge the team yesterday particularly with the addition of messi

[johnF]

The Barca team are better because they are essentially the same side plus Messi.

Have to disagree with this statement due to the following Spanish players pushing for 1st team spots into the Barcelona team:

Casillas
Ramos
Arbeloa
Torres when on form
Alonso
Silva

Torres can't even get into the Chelsea first team, never mind Barcelona!

[bigsheff]

The Barca team are better because they are essentially the same side plus Messi.

I agree with thebillfella ...

isn't the question more about international teams rather than club sides?

[bigsheff]

Best team I've ever seen is Brazil 1982 (Zico, Socrates, Falcao, Eder etc). They didn't win the world cup (due to dodgy defending) but were a pure joy to watch. Check out youtube clips if you're too young to remember. I'm too young to remember 1970 brazil but from what I've seen they were similarly brilliant.

kinda kills off your argument there...
fair enough - your favourite or most attractive side but not 'best' because they weren't, clearly.

[tommymooney]

This thread brings to mind a recent BBC sports documentary - is professionalism killing sport?

I'm not suggesting Spain are 'killing' football. But, they are so professional! Hence why people like Balo get so much publicity - for not being completely flaw free.

It is hard to separate the general nostalgia for sides gone by from their actual ability - and make objective judgements. Obviously teams like the great Brazil were slower and less fit.

If sport is ultimately about entertainment, and a way to while away our mortal hours, then I would rather watch 70-80's Brazil than Spain of today.

[Knulpuk]

Tricky

the passing of time romanticises the Brazil team. Also its not eggs -v- eggs.

Bjorg was amazing - would he take set off of Djokavic? Technique, fitness, approach all move on.

Spain's run is still very much current too - it's not over yet...

They won without Villa, without Puyol.

My view - too early to say - but in a yes no I would say yes.

[mikeg13]

It is hard to separate the general nostalgia for sides gone by from their actual ability - and make objective judgements. Obviously teams like the great Brazil were slower and less fit.

If sport is ultimately about entertainment, and a way to while away our mortal hours, then I would rather watch 70-80's Brazil than Spain of today.

Maybe slower/ fitter not sure, but even now after all these years still get a thrill watching Brazil 1970 side and thats what the Spanish side dont give me. Cruyfs Dutch team played in a way never seen before or since, though many have tried, you just did not know who would be attacking or defending at any point in games.

http://footballsgreatest.weebly.com/brazil-1970.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bert.]

Are this Spanish team the greatest of all time?...

They're certainly the most boring.

Ticca tacca tippy tappy blah blah.............Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Tricky Tree]

jeez, here you are again

Try watching Forest

[tommymooney]

having said all that there are some (emphasis on some) similarities between Carlos alberto's goal in the WC final and Jordi Alba's run last night too...

[Matty B]

all those rushing to acclaim Brazil 1970 without really seeing them can always watch this video to see what they were really like !!!

[The Councillor]

if they win the 2014 WC with the same nucleas of players, which is pretty much on the cards, then dont think there would be any arguemetns that they could proclaim to be the greatest trophy winning side of all time...

personally, I've always felt the zidane inspired French teams of 98 and 2000 and maradona's 86 team were the best for me but i am rather resigned to admitting this spanish team of 08-12 emulate them already....

[Bert.]

jeez, here you are again Try watching Forest

How's Chris Read doing these days?

[bigsheff]

Cruyfs Dutch team played in a way never seen before or since, though many have tried,

Isn't that the same as the spanish now? 1 through 11 every player is a proper footballer, comfortable on the ball. They press like no other team & all can attack at times. Is it there fault that the Tika Taka style makes them so dominant with the ball.

I totally understand why people can think they are boring, but the mistake they are making is blaming spain, its not their problem the opposition can't get the ball off of them are that they retreat to defend the 18 yard line.

[mikeg13]

Cruyfs Dutch team played in a way never seen before or since, though many have tried,

Isn't that the same as the spanish now? 1 through 11 every player is a proper footballer, comfortable on the ball. They press like no other team & all can attack at times. Is it there fault that the Tika Taka style makes them so dominant with the ball.

Close but no cigar they had a flair and an inventiveness that this side lacks (just my view)to me its playing by numbers, not to say its boring, to me there is something missing, hard to say what it is.

[murf]

to me there is something missing, hard to say what it is.

You kind of said it earlier, they've got no soul.

Even though they are technical and skilful geniuses, it is all too robotic and predictable.

[blahblah]

It seems to me that they have reduced\elevated the XI man game to 5-a-side.

[Tricky Tree]

jeez, here you are again Try watching Forest

How's Chris Read doing these days?

Very well thanks, 5th highest ranked batsman for those who have played 5 or more games. (Div 1)

Highest average of any wickie

Basically, high quality as always

[Bert.]

jeez, here you are again Try watching Forest

How's Chris Read doing these days?

Very well thanks, 5th highest ranked batsman for those who have played 5 or more games. (Div 1)

Highest average of any wickie

Basically, high quality as always

And still can't get in the England side.

[bigsheff]

It seems to me that they have reduced\elevated the XI man game to 5-a-side.

They've just made the game much more simple.

[bigsheff]

Cruyfs Dutch team played in a way never seen before or since, though many have tried,

Isn't that the same as the spanish now? 1 through 11 every player is a proper footballer, comfortable on the ball. They press like no other team & all can attack at times. Is it there fault that the Tika Taka style makes them so dominant with the ball.

Close but no cigar they had a flair and an inventiveness that this side lacks (just my view)to me its playing by numbers, not to say its boring, to me there is something missing, hard to say what it is.

bit like having a really tasty apple pie... with no cream

(what your saying is you'd just like a little bit more flair, i guess you wouldn't label Barca the same as Spain)