Van Gaal

[tedbull]

And VG says...

I taught Romero how to stop penalties

Why not teach your first choice in a world cup then? Or is he just talking shite?

[SuperGrover]

And VG says...

I taught Romero how to stop penalties

Why not teach your first choice in a world cup then? Or is he just talking shite?

He;s clearly talking shit. Same reason he let it be known that Vlaar was his 3rd choice. Never takes the blame but always wants the credit.

The Krul thing was a wasted sub that worked primarily because the Dutch took their penalties excellently. Had Krul do the same tonight they would have, at best been tied because they shot like shit. Starting with a central defender who has never taken a penalty doesn't seem like a good idea.

LVG is a great coach, but he is also and egotistical blow hard (like most, but not all great coaches). Man U fans will love him.

[Maldini]

I thought Cillessen was treated a little harshly but when I saw him in goal for the penalties tonight, I understood perfectly why LVG did what he did. It was like Man against boy for me.

He looked tiny ...

And his confidence shot to shite in the last match?




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[Giggs11]

I thought Cillessen was treated a little harshly but when I saw him in goal for the penalties tonight, I understood perfectly why LVG did what he did. It was like Man against boy for me.

He looked tiny ...

My point is only that if you are going to do it once you better make damn sure that you do it every time after that. At the time of the 3rd sub it was looking very likely that it would go to penalties so it would have been a very easy choice to make.

I'm almost sure that in an ideal world Van Gaal would have made Krul his 3rd sub again.
My thinking is that RVP was suffering from the stomach bug that was reported and played for as long as was possible.
Fair to say he didn't look at his sharpest but why else would you take off one of your best 5 penalty takers? Especially when, as was reported, Vlaar was 3rd choice and only took a penalty because others didn't fancy it ...

[Giggs11]

I thought Cillessen was treated a little harshly but when I saw him in goal for the penalties tonight, I understood perfectly why LVG did what he did. It was like Man against boy for me.

He looked tiny ...

And his confidence shot to shite in the last match?

Agreed, but he only had to pick a spot and dive. He never looked like saving one did he?

I don't think he'd have got near one in the previous round either ...

[SuperGrover]

I thought Cillessen was treated a little harshly but when I saw him in goal for the penalties tonight, I understood perfectly why LVG did what he did. It was like Man against boy for me.

He looked tiny ...

My point is only that if you are going to do it once you better make damn sure that you do it every time after that. At the time of the 3rd sub it was looking very likely that it would go to penalties so it would have been a very easy choice to make.

I'm almost sure that in an ideal world Van Gaal would have made Krul his 3rd sub again.
My thinking is that RVP was suffering from the stomach bug that was reported and played for as long as was possible.
Fair to say he didn't look at his sharpest but why else would you take off one of your best 5 penalty takers? Especially when, as was reported, Vlaar was 3rd choice and only took a penalty because others didn't fancy it ...

RVP has been terrible since the ESP game. This was not a one time deal. Fact is the Dutch were really a Robben and RVP team for one game, beat on a GK error a terrible Aussie team, and then managed to beat a Chile team that was already through. After that, they have scored one open play goal in three games, two of which went extra time. In all 2 of the 3 games they were big favorites, and in the other they were a small dog. Quite frankly, they have been mediocre since the ESP game and living off the reputation of beating Spain by a big margin that, arguably, shloud have never been that large.

the Dutch were always overrated. Only 3-4 world class players among the group. No chance to win the WC.

[SuperGrover]

I thought Cillessen was treated a little harshly but when I saw him in goal for the penalties tonight, I understood perfectly why LVG did what he did. It was like Man against boy for me.

He looked tiny ...

And his confidence shot to shite in the last match?

Agreed, but he only had to pick a spot and dive. He never looked like saving one did he?

I don't think he'd have got near one in the previous round either ...

He tipped two of them. He dived correctly on two occasions.

the big problem though was the Dutch penalty TAKERS not the savers. Against Costa Rica they were perfect. Against ARG, they started out by missing the very first penalty taken, and then backing that up by missing the second. No matter who was in goalie there was no way to counteract that.

If you want to give LVG credit for Krul against CR (which I don't because I think it is just statistical noise) then you have to punish him for an idiotic lineup versus Argentina. He says 2 refused before Vlaar stepped up...which I don't believe. Nevertheless, he should have went with a stud first (Kuyt or Huntelaar would have been my pick) players with balls who would never say no.

If you want credit LVG for Krul you 100% have to penalize him for Vlaar.

[Giggs11]

I'm sure LVG could learn a lot from you ...

[tedbull]

That might be the first time 'sloth' Kuyt has ever been referred to as a stud?

[stuboy]

the Dutch were always overrated.

What are you talking about?

The general consensus of people living in the Netherlands, before the tournament began, was they would be lucky if they managed to get out of the group. And if they did get out of the group, the expectation was they'd lose to Brazil in the next round (as it was expected they would finish 2nd in group and Brazil top of theirs)

The only people overrating the Dutch was anyone who knows nothing about Dutch football. The only surprise coming from the tournament is how well the defence have played. Aside from Vlaar it's a fairly inexperienced defensive unit with a number of young players with less than 15-20 caps.

The fact was the Dutch knew their best way of playing was on the break but the Argentinians did a great job of stopping that by playing so deep defensively. It made for a boring stalemate but the Dutch will still get a heroes welcome when they are back home.

[mike_d99]

the Dutch were always overrated. Only 3-4 world class players among the group. No chance to win the WC.

Don't know about you, but pretty much every preview I read suggested the Dutch were in team in major decline, considerably inferior to 2010 and would be lucky to qualify from the group. The general consensus being Spain and Chile were superior teams. Which seems reasonable, take Robben and RVP out and it'd be hard to argue it's one of the stronger international squads.

Yet they were a penalty shootout away from being in the World Cup Final. You don't think that's a good achievement?

My point is only that if you are going to do it once you better make damn sure that you do it every time after that. At the time of the 3rd sub it was looking very likely that it would go to penalties so it would have been a very easy choice to make.

So you're criticising the manager for make the substitution the first time - even though it won them the game - because he didn't do it the next time? I'm sure he'd have loved to if he'd had the luxury of having a spare substitution, but van Persie was barely able to run by the time he was substituted and there was half-an-hour left! Would you really advocate leaving a passenger on the pitch for half an hour with a World Cup Final at stake just so you could bring on a sub goalkeeper in the event of the game going to penalties?

Fair to say he didn't look at his sharpest but why else would you take off one of your best 5 penalty takers? Especially when, as was reported, Vlaar was 3rd choice and only took a penalty because others didn't fancy it ...

How would he be expected to know that in the event of the game even going to penalties in the first place, some of the players that took penalties and scored in the previous game might not want to take them this time around? He'd need to be psychic.

You also dismiss their victory over an impressive Chile side as worthless because Chile were already through, completely ignoring the fact that Holland were too. Does it only count for one team then? Both teams named strong sides as they were trying to win the group and avoid playing Brazil in the next round.

The criticism on this thread is bizarre. I suspect not one person posting in here expected Holland to reach the semi-final.

[Giggs11]

You've quoted me there Mike as if I was disagreeing with the point you were making, when I was of the same opinion?

[thebillfella]

the Dutch were always overrated. Only 3-4 world class players among the group. No chance to win the WC.

Well clearly, they are already out Nostradamus

The Dutch were never overrated - nobody had them down for winning this at the start and some didn't even have them getting out of the group.

LvG altered the long established Dutch formation / tactics because he fully acknowledged they only had 3 world class players (and had lost the 4th to injury), and went 5 at the back to play to their strengths while compensating for the defensive security lost once Strootman was confirmed as out of the tournament.

That the Dutch got to the semis is because of the LvG factor not in spite of him. I'm finding it more and more reassuring that you and some other none-Utd fans are finding it necessary to try to search for any LvG faults you can find - you are clearly concerned that LvG will have the same positive impact at Utd and are desperately trying to convince yourself and others that this won't happen.

[trampie]

Van Gaal made a big mistake subbing the goalie for the penalty shoot out against Costa Rica, that move only works in the final otherwise you better hope not to have another shoot out in the competition as after playing that card there is more than an even money chance that you will have used your subs up if it happens again and you will have to go with a keeper who's confidence is now shot to bits.

Van Gaal cost his team due to lacking in foresight and now he is going to be Man Utd manager, Utd fans better hopes he up's his game, in the Argentina shoot out according to reports two of van Gaal's players refused/didn't want to take the first penalty kick and a centre half ended up taking it and missing, doesn't say much for van Gaal man management skills in those circumstances, I wonder what kind of manager he will turn out to be for Man Utd ?, there seems to be some concerns after the world cup which started well for Van Gaal but has ended with some question marks .

[Darbyand]

There's plenty of money floating around if you want to back him to fail, specifically in a head to head in the league with your team.

[thebillfella]

Van Gaal made a big mistake subbing the goalie for the penalty shoot out against Costa Rica Did he? There was me thinking it worked a treat? Maybe Costa Rica got through after all?

you will have to go with a keeper who's confidence is now shot to bits Do you? His confidence looked fine to me. Maybe I imagined the clean sheet? I think you are looking desperately for something that doesn't exist

Van Gaal cost his team due to lacking in foresight No he didn't; what exactly was it tha LvG did not do to cause two of his players to have their penalties saved?

in the Argentina shoot out according to reports two of van Gaal's players refused/didn't want to take the first penalty kick and a centre half ended up taking it and missing, doesn't say much for van Gaal man management skills in those circumstances I think that says a lot more about your bias and desperation to find fault rather than accept reality to be honest. Maybe it was Rooney's fault as well?

I wonder what kind of manager he will turn out to be for Man Utd ?, there seems to be some concerns after the world cup which started well for Van Gaal but has ended with some question marks . Erm, no concern whatsoever. In fact, I suspect many ABUs were hoping the Dutch performed as expected prior to the World Cup to be able to go straight on the attack against LvG, and are a little bit annoyed the Dutch have over acheived for the players they have. I'm actually far more positive now than before the World Cup started, and seeing many ABUs floundering around for faults that are irrelevant only serves to reinforce that confidence. Many thanks

[Maldini]

As a neutral I'm not buying in to this guy quite as readily as you seem to have done Bill.

His appointment is just as likely to go belly up as it is to be a success. His enormous ego will happily take credit for bringing Krul on against Costa Rica* but he then distances himself from any blame in defeat against Argentina (he taught Romero how to save pens, two guys refused to take the first penalty etc etc).



*I'm not convinced it was the right thing to do and the fact he still didn't know his best goalkeeper after so many games would also worry me slightly.

[liquidfootball2]

Van Gaal made a big mistake subbing the goalie for the penalty shoot out against Costa Rica Did he? There was me thinking it worked a treat? Maybe Costa Rica got through after all?

you will have to go with a keeper who's confidence is now shot to bits Do you? His confidence looked fine to me. Maybe I imagined the clean sheet? I think you are looking desperately for something that doesn't exist

Van Gaal cost his team due to lacking in foresight No he didn't; what exactly was it tha LvG did not do to cause two of his players to have their penalties saved?

in the Argentina shoot out according to reports two of van Gaal's players refused/didn't want to take the first penalty kick and a centre half ended up taking it and missing, doesn't say much for van Gaal man management skills in those circumstances I think that says a lot more about your bias and desperation to find fault rather than accept reality to be honest. Maybe it was Rooney's fault as well?

I wonder what kind of manager he will turn out to be for Man Utd ?, there seems to be some concerns after the world cup which started well for Van Gaal but has ended with some question marks . Erm, no concern whatsoever. In fact, I suspect many ABUs were hoping the Dutch performed as expected prior to the World Cup to be able to go straight on the attack against LvG, and are a little bit annoyed the Dutch have over acheived for the players they have. I'm actually far more positive now than before the World Cup started, and seeing many ABUs floundering around for faults that are irrelevant only serves to reinforce that confidence. Many thanks

Well answered thebillfella, i thought the majority of trample's post was his usual complete nonsense.

To be fair though, Vlaar taking the first pen was probably not the best tactic in that usually your best penalty takers (Robben and RvP) should be first up to get points on the board and added pressure on the Argentines following

[trampie]

the Dutch were always overrated. Only 3-4 world class players among the group. No chance to win the WC.

Well clearly, they are already out Nostradamus

The Dutch were never overrated - nobody had them down for winning this at the start and some didn't even have them getting out of the group.

LvG altered the long established Dutch formation / tactics because he fully acknowledged they only had 3 world class players (and had lost the 4th to injury), and went 5 at the back to play to their strengths while compensating for the defensive security lost once Strootman was confirmed as out of the tournament.

That the Dutch got to the semis is because of the LvG factor not in spite of him. I'm finding it more and more reassuring that you and some other none-Utd fans are finding it necessary to try to search for any LvG faults you can find - you are clearly concerned that LvG will have the same positive impact at Utd and are desperately trying to convince yourself and others that this won't happen.

Van Gaal made a huge mistake subbing the goalie off for a penalty shoot out and as a result he contributed to his team losing in the next round, I said it at the time, Van Gaal may live to regret this if Holland have another penalty shoot out in this world cup as the next time it's likely that he won't have any subs left after 120 minutes of football and he has just undermined his goalie by subbing him off not to face a penalty shoot out.

People are saying that players would not have rejected Alex Ferguson if he had said he wanted such and such a player to take a pen, how true that is I don't know, but there has been plenty of concern regarding Van Gaal capability to be Man Utd manager in the last few days.

[trampie]

Why Van Gaal didn't pick the Swansea goalie if he wanted a penalty saver is a mystery ?, the Swans keeper is known as one of the best penalty savers in the world having pulled off many penalty saves both in Holland and in Britain, Van Gaal went with a guy in a knock out tournament [which goes to penalty kicks after extra time] with a goalie that apparently has never saved a penalty as first choice and that guy faced up to Argentina in a penalty shoot out in the World cup semi final and kept his record up by still not saving a penalty and his team lost as a result.

Van Gaal brought on Krul just for the pens in the Quarters against Costa Rica which undermined Cillessen who had to face pens in the next round as it turned out, yet Krul who did pull off 2 saves against Costa Rica had a poor penalty saving record himself, yet the unused Swansea goalie has a fantastic penalty saving record yet Van Gaal brought Krul on and not Vorm, which begs the question was it more luck than judgement that Krul saved a pen as regards Van Gaals decision ?, but regardless Van Gaal helped cost his side a chance of world cup glory by his goalkeeper substitutions anyway.

[Giggs11]

Utter gash trampie.

With Cillesen subbed the game before but kept on in the semi final what better spur to become the hero of his country.This is quite often called reverse psychology. It was also the semi final of the world cup and probably the biggest game of most of these players lives so anything could happen because of the emotion and nerves but certainly had nothing to do with Van Gaals management.

[stuboy]

the Dutch were always overrated. Only 3-4 world class players among the group. No chance to win the WC.

Well clearly, they are already out Nostradamus

The Dutch were never overrated - nobody had them down for winning this at the start and some didn't even have them getting out of the group.

LvG altered the long established Dutch formation / tactics because he fully acknowledged they only had 3 world class players (and had lost the 4th to injury), and went 5 at the back to play to their strengths while compensating for the defensive security lost once Strootman was confirmed as out of the tournament.

That the Dutch got to the semis is because of the LvG factor not in spite of him. I'm finding it more and more reassuring that you and some other none-Utd fans are finding it necessary to try to search for any LvG faults you can find - you are clearly concerned that LvG will have the same positive impact at Utd and are desperately trying to convince yourself and others that this won't happen.

Van Gaal made a huge mistake subbing the goalie off for a penalty shoot out and as a result he contributed to his team losing in the next round, I said it at the time, Van Gaal may live to regret this if Holland have another penalty shoot out in this world cup as the next time it's likely that he won't have any subs left after 120 minutes of football and he has just undermined his goalie by subbing him off not to face a penalty shoot out.

People are saying that players would not have rejected Alex Ferguson if he had said he wanted such and such a player to take a pen, how true that is I don't know, but there has been plenty of concern regarding Van Gaal capability to be Man Utd manager in the last few days.

I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.....if he doesn't bring on Krul in the quarter finals there was a really good chance the Dutch wouldn't have even made the semis. There's no point saving the "master plan" for a later round if you're already on the plane home.

And then after slating him for undermining Cillissen by bringing on Krul, you then completely contradict yourself with your next post by again slating him for not bringing on Vorm against Costa Rica. Would that have resulted in a different outcome than what happened?

[trampie]

the Dutch were always overrated. Only 3-4 world class players among the group. No chance to win the WC.

Well clearly, they are already out Nostradamus

The Dutch were never overrated - nobody had them down for winning this at the start and some didn't even have them getting out of the group.

LvG altered the long established Dutch formation / tactics because he fully acknowledged they only had 3 world class players (and had lost the 4th to injury), and went 5 at the back to play to their strengths while compensating for the defensive security lost once Strootman was confirmed as out of the tournament.

That the Dutch got to the semis is because of the LvG factor not in spite of him. I'm finding it more and more reassuring that you and some other none-Utd fans are finding it necessary to try to search for any LvG faults you can find - you are clearly concerned that LvG will have the same positive impact at Utd and are desperately trying to convince yourself and others that this won't happen.

Van Gaal made a huge mistake subbing the goalie off for a penalty shoot out and as a result he contributed to his team losing in the next round, I said it at the time, Van Gaal may live to regret this if Holland have another penalty shoot out in this world cup as the next time it's likely that he won't have any subs left after 120 minutes of football and he has just undermined his goalie by subbing him off not to face a penalty shoot out.

People are saying that players would not have rejected Alex Ferguson if he had said he wanted such and such a player to take a pen, how true that is I don't know, but there has been plenty of concern regarding Van Gaal capability to be Man Utd manager in the last few days.

I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.....if he doesn't bring on Krul in the quarter finals there was a really good chance the Dutch wouldn't have even made the semis. There's no point saving the "master plan" for a later round if you're already on the plane home.

And then after slating him for undermining Cillissen by bringing on Krul, you then completely contradict yourself with your next post by again slating him for not bringing on Vorm against Costa Rica. Would that have resulted in a different outcome than what happened?

No you don't understand, if Van Gaal had used his 3 subs instead of saving one of them to replace his goalie just for the penalty shoot out against little Costa Rica then perhaps it would not have gone to penalty kicks ?

If Van Gaal had picked a goalie that was capable of saving a penalty in the first place then he could have used his 3 subs during the 120 minutes of play and perhaps his side would have won.

If you subscribe to the Van Gaal theory of subbing the goalie off for a penalty shoot out before the final then why did Van Gaal bring on a goalie with a poor penalty saving record ?, why did Van Gaal not bring on a goalie that he had at his disposal with a great penalty saving record in Vorm ?, what was that all about ?, it suggests Van Gaal's plan was flawed and based on luck.

[Maldini]

The bit I agree with you on is why not pick Krul in the first place?

Saves you a substitution for injuries/tactical changes etc and what about penalties during the game? Don't they need saving?

[liquidfootball2]

the Dutch were always overrated. Only 3-4 world class players among the group. No chance to win the WC.

Well clearly, they are already out Nostradamus

The Dutch were never overrated - nobody had them down for winning this at the start and some didn't even have them getting out of the group.

LvG altered the long established Dutch formation / tactics because he fully acknowledged they only had 3 world class players (and had lost the 4th to injury), and went 5 at the back to play to their strengths while compensating for the defensive security lost once Strootman was confirmed as out of the tournament.

That the Dutch got to the semis is because of the LvG factor not in spite of him. I'm finding it more and more reassuring that you and some other none-Utd fans are finding it necessary to try to search for any LvG faults you can find - you are clearly concerned that LvG will have the same positive impact at Utd and are desperately trying to convince yourself and others that this won't happen.

Van Gaal made a huge mistake subbing the goalie off for a penalty shoot out and as a result he contributed to his team losing in the next round, I said it at the time, Van Gaal may live to regret this if Holland have another penalty shoot out in this world cup as the next time it's likely that he won't have any subs left after 120 minutes of football and he has just undermined his goalie by subbing him off not to face a penalty shoot out.

People are saying that players would not have rejected Alex Ferguson if he had said he wanted such and such a player to take a pen, how true that is I don't know, but there has been plenty of concern regarding Van Gaal capability to be Man Utd manager in the last few days.

I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.....if he doesn't bring on Krul in the quarter finals there was a really good chance the Dutch wouldn't have even made the semis. There's no point saving the "master plan" for a later round if you're already on the plane home.

And then after slating him for undermining Cillissen by bringing on Krul, you then completely contradict yourself with your next post by again slating him for not bringing on Vorm against Costa Rica. Would that have resulted in a different outcome than what happened?

No you don't understand, if Van Gaal had used his 3 subs instead of saving one of them to replace his goalie just for the penalty shoot out against little Costa Rica then perhaps it would not have gone to penalty kicks ?

If Van Gaal had picked a goalie that was capable of saving a penalty in the first place then he could have used his 3 subs during the 120 minutes of play and perhaps his side would have won.

If you subscribe to the Van Gaal theory of subbing the goalie off for a penalty shoot out before the final then why did Van Gaal bring on a goalie with a poor penalty saving record ?, why did Van Gaal not bring on a goalie that he had at his disposal with a great penalty saving record in Vorm ?, what was that all about ?, it suggests Van Gaal's plan was flawed and based on luck.

This only stands up if you think Vorm or Krul is your best goalkeeper for the 90 or 120 mins of normal play which LVG clearly doesn't.

In the quarters as for every previous game he selected Cillessen as he thought he was his best goalkeeper, he also probably thought his outfield players on the pitch would win him the game but as it got nearer to penalties thought it wise to keep a substitution back.

You can't say that because that same scenario didn't play out for the semi-final penalties that his decision was wrong in the round previously. Every match varies with tactics, injuries and different priorities and viewed after the game with hindsight is always a lot easier.

It doesn't take a genius to see that your opinions as usual are completely coloured by the fact that Vorm plays for a Welsh club and LVG is the new Utd manager. Unlike you LVG was watching Holland practice penalties, knew who was currently most likely to save them and acted accordingly.

[trampie]

the Dutch were always overrated. Only 3-4 world class players among the group. No chance to win the WC.

Well clearly, they are already out Nostradamus

The Dutch were never overrated - nobody had them down for winning this at the start and some didn't even have them getting out of the group.

LvG altered the long established Dutch formation / tactics because he fully acknowledged they only had 3 world class players (and had lost the 4th to injury), and went 5 at the back to play to their strengths while compensating for the defensive security lost once Strootman was confirmed as out of the tournament.

That the Dutch got to the semis is because of the LvG factor not in spite of him. I'm finding it more and more reassuring that you and some other none-Utd fans are finding it necessary to try to search for any LvG faults you can find - you are clearly concerned that LvG will have the same positive impact at Utd and are desperately trying to convince yourself and others that this won't happen.

Van Gaal made a huge mistake subbing the goalie off for a penalty shoot out and as a result he contributed to his team losing in the next round, I said it at the time, Van Gaal may live to regret this if Holland have another penalty shoot out in this world cup as the next time it's likely that he won't have any subs left after 120 minutes of football and he has just undermined his goalie by subbing him off not to face a penalty shoot out.

People are saying that players would not have rejected Alex Ferguson if he had said he wanted such and such a player to take a pen, how true that is I don't know, but there has been plenty of concern regarding Van Gaal capability to be Man Utd manager in the last few days.

I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.....if he doesn't bring on Krul in the quarter finals there was a really good chance the Dutch wouldn't have even made the semis. There's no point saving the "master plan" for a later round if you're already on the plane home.

And then after slating him for undermining Cillissen by bringing on Krul, you then completely contradict yourself with your next post by again slating him for not bringing on Vorm against Costa Rica. Would that have resulted in a different outcome than what happened?

No you don't understand, if Van Gaal had used his 3 subs instead of saving one of them to replace his goalie just for the penalty shoot out against little Costa Rica then perhaps it would not have gone to penalty kicks ?

If Van Gaal had picked a goalie that was capable of saving a penalty in the first place then he could have used his 3 subs during the 120 minutes of play and perhaps his side would have won.

If you subscribe to the Van Gaal theory of subbing the goalie off for a penalty shoot out before the final then why did Van Gaal bring on a goalie with a poor penalty saving record ?, why did Van Gaal not bring on a goalie that he had at his disposal with a great penalty saving record in Vorm ?, what was that all about ?, it suggests Van Gaal's plan was flawed and based on luck.

This only stands up if you think Vorm or Krul is your best goalkeeper for the 90 or 120 mins of normal play which LVG clearly doesn't.

In the quarters as for every previous game he selected Cillessen as he thought he was his best goalkeeper, he also probably thought his outfield players on the pitch would win him the game but as it got nearer to penalties thought it wise to keep a substitution back.

You can't say that because that same scenario didn't play out for the semi-final penalties that his decision was wrong in the round previously. Every match varies with tactics, injuries and different priorities and viewed after the game with hindsight is always a lot easier.

It doesn't take a genius to see that your opinions as usual are completely coloured by the fact that Vorm plays for a Welsh club and LVG is the new Utd manager. Unlike you LVG was watching Holland practice penalties, knew who was currently most likely to save them and acted accordingly.

You cant replicate penalties in training compared to the real thing they all say, Vorm has been there and done it over and over again, faced a penalty and saved it, Krul has a poor penalty record and Cillessen a pathetic penalty record, Van Gaal got his tactics wrong, Holland have chopped and changed their keeper in recent times so there can't have been much between the lot of them yet Van Gaal went for a bloke that can't save pens in the world cup finals where games will often come down to pens, Van Gaal made a mistake and now he is going to be Man Utd manager I wonder if he will do any better for them ?, perhaps he has learn't his lesson now.

[liquidfootball2]

Noone picks a starting line-up thinking it'll be penalties. Cillessen started every previous match in the tournament and is his first choice. You talk utter drivel.

[trampie]

Noone picks a starting line-up thinking it'll be penalties. Cillessen started every previous match in the tournament and is his first choice. You talk utter drivel.

He should not have been first choice because he causes his team to only be able to use 2 subs in 120 minutes of football, it would have been more beneficial for Holland to have had Vorm as their first choice keeper, LVG got his selection wrong and its ended in defeat when it didn't have too.

[Maldini]

For once, I actually agree with trampie.

No one should handicap themselves by holding a sub back because their keeper isn't up to saving penalties either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stuboy]

Again, not sure why I'm bothering, but Cillessen is considered a better keeper in areas such as aerial presence, distribution, shot stopping etc.

So whilst his penalty saving abilities are non existent, no point having a 2nd choice keeper where you may have already lost the game prior to penalties being taken.

It's a bit like saying Huntelaar should start every game for the Netherlands because he is decent at taking a penalty - you choose a starting line up to win a game in 90 minutes, possibly 120 minutes. You don't pick your keeper with penalties in mind.