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Another one bites the dust (HMV)

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Another one bites the dust (HMV)

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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c4096aee-5e82 ... z2HzBGM7AL" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)

Post by WilBert »

Balls got Christmas vouchers to spend. Hope they honour them. Thanks for the heads up. Horrible time for the staff though.

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Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)

Post by Achiles74 »

No wonder, when HMV charge fullprice for Dvds it was only a matter of time before they went under with supermarket chains selling them as a loss maker and internet sites able to charge less money due to lower overheads.

Pretty soon all shopping will be carried out over the internet, only a matter of time.

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Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)

Post by Richt »

Achiles74 wrote: Pretty soon all shopping will be carried out over the internet, only a matter of time.
A lot of it will yes. But I imagine wimmins clothing shops will stay on the high street as they do tend to like to try shed loads of stuff on. (That's what my Mrs said tonight anyway after she commented about HMV).

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by Zoolander »

The tax dodging juggernaut that is Amazon claims another victim.

Sad.

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by Richt »

Zoolander wrote:The tax dodging juggernaut that is Amazon claims another victim.

Sad.

Yes sad, but HMV really should have moved with the times. Achiles has hit the nail on the head, why would anyone want to pay full price for a DVD / CD etc when they are available elsewhere for a lot less?

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Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)

Post by Latic »

Achiles74 wrote:No wonder, when HMV charge fullprice for Dvds it was only a matter of time before they went under with supermarket chains selling them as a loss maker
Apart from the staff who suffer I have no sympathy for HMV. In the 90s they were very happy to collude with the music industry and fleece us for the price of CDs. It was only when Tesco etc entered the market then the price of music (rightly) came down. Still, they lasted longer than Virgin Megastores and Our Price.

Went in last week to fill some gaps in the collection and they were wanting a fortune for back catalogue stuff, very unrealistic.

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Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)

Post by moonlightdribbler »

Latic wrote:
Achiles74 wrote:No wonder, when HMV charge fullprice for Dvds it was only a matter of time before they went under with supermarket chains selling them as a loss maker
Apart from the staff who suffer I have no sympathy for HMV. In the 90s they were very happy to collude with the music industry and fleece us for the price of CDs.

+1

The only real surprise for me is that it's taken this long for the inevitable collapse.

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Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)

Post by barry »

Latic wrote:
Achiles74 wrote:No wonder, when HMV charge fullprice for Dvds it was only a matter of time before they went under with supermarket chains selling them as a loss maker
Apart from the staff who suffer I have no sympathy for HMV. In the 90s they were very happy to collude with the music industry and fleece us for the price of CDs. It was only when Tesco etc entered the market then the price of music (rightly) came down. Still, they lasted longer than Virgin Megastores and Our Price.

Went in last week to fill some gaps in the collection and they were wanting a fortune for back catalogue stuff, very unrealistic.

I had an REM cd (automatic for the people) stolen years ago and wanted to replace it, £17.99 I had to pay.... and that was the last straw and the last cd I can remember buying.

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Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)

Post by Pincher »

WilBert wrote:Balls got Christmas vouchers to spend. Hope they honour them. Thanks for the heads up. Horrible time for the staff though.
If your local store IS still trading I would try to get that voucher cashed immediately - generally once places go into administration they won't accept vouchers.

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Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)

Post by Dixon »

barry wrote:
I had an REM cd (automatic for the people) stolen years ago and wanted to replace it, £17.99 I had to pay.... and that was the last straw and the last cd I can remember buying.
Yet Music Magpie would likely value it (like many CDs) at 30p :lol:

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Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)

Post by Jonathan »

Latic wrote:
Achiles74 wrote:No wonder, when HMV charge fullprice for Dvds it was only a matter of time before they went under with supermarket chains selling them as a loss maker
Apart from the staff who suffer I have no sympathy for HMV. In the 90s they were very happy to collude with the music industry and fleece us for the price of CDs. It was only when Tesco etc entered the market then the price of music (rightly) came down. Still, they lasted longer than Virgin Megastores and Our Price.

Went in last week to fill some gaps in the collection and they were wanting a fortune for back catalogue stuff, very unrealistic.
You can hardly expect a store - which pretty much only sells CDs and DVDs - to do so at a loss. That is unrealistic.

Yes, the supermarkets may have brought the price of physical CDs down - but they achieve that by bullying suppliers in other areas so they could offer BOGOF deals (the suppliers absorb the cost, not Tesco). All shops in all markets hike up the prices of their merchandise from what they buy them at at trade - but as soon as you get price wars by the big boys, the smaller suppliers will suffer - not just your HMVs but your friendly independent local chains.

It isn't good, no matter how you look at it.

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Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)

Post by mike_d99 »

Jonathan wrote:
Latic wrote:
Achiles74 wrote:No wonder, when HMV charge fullprice for Dvds it was only a matter of time before they went under with supermarket chains selling them as a loss maker
Apart from the staff who suffer I have no sympathy for HMV. In the 90s they were very happy to collude with the music industry and fleece us for the price of CDs. It was only when Tesco etc entered the market then the price of music (rightly) came down. Still, they lasted longer than Virgin Megastores and Our Price.

Went in last week to fill some gaps in the collection and they were wanting a fortune for back catalogue stuff, very unrealistic.
You can hardly expect a store - which pretty much only sells CDs and DVDs - to do so at a loss. That is unrealistic.

Yes, the supermarkets may have brought the price of physical CDs down - but they achieve that by bullying suppliers in other areas so they could offer BOGOF deals (the suppliers absorb the cost, not Tesco). All shops in all markets hike up the prices of their merchandise from what they buy them at at trade - but as soon as you get price wars by the big boys, the smaller suppliers will suffer - not just your HMVs but your friendly independent local chains.

It isn't good, no matter how you look at it.
Exactly. If you only buy your petrol from supermarkets, or you only buy your CDs from supermarkets, then sooner or later you won't be able to buy them anywhere else. Once all the competition is out of the way, let's see how keen they are to offer you cheap petrol then.

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by Spencer4 »

It is an interesting issue.

For years the small independent sellers have been fighting a losing war with HMV, Virgin, Borders etc.

Now, these large high street shops have basically gone, defeated by the cheaper on-line resources. They couldn't make a profit by over-pricing their products any more because on-line showed that the actual goods were available far cheaper. Once these corporate giants realize the cannot make an obscene profit, they're off.

Any small independents who have survived may find themselves on the up now, because there will always be people who want to browse in person.

This may be the case for small camera shops now Jesops has gone, and smaller electrical shops because of Comet etc. Interesting times perhaps, not necessarily the end for our high streets.

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by gazwood »

WilBert wrote:Balls got Christmas vouchers to spend. Hope they honour them. Thanks for the heads up. Horrible time for the staff though.
All vouchers must be used by today or they'll be void

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by DixieDean »

Spencer4 wrote:It is an interesting issue.

For years the small independent sellers have been fighting a losing war with HMV, Virgin, Borders etc.

Now, these large high street shops have basically gone, defeated by the cheaper on-line resources. They couldn't make a profit by over-pricing their products any more because on-line showed that the actual goods were available far cheaper. Once these corporate giants realize the cannot make an obscene profit, they're off.

Any small independents who have survived may find themselves on the up now, because there will always be people who want to browse in person.

This may be the case for small camera shops now Jesops has gone, and smaller electrical shops because of Comet etc. Interesting times perhaps, not necessarily the end for our high streets.
I'd agree. Here's a film about independent record shops... There were over 2000 independents in the 80's by 2009 there were 269 left.

Last Shop; Standing


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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by WilBert »

gazwood wrote:
WilBert wrote:Balls got Christmas vouchers to spend. Hope they honour them. Thanks for the heads up. Horrible time for the staff though.
All vouchers must be used by today or they'll be void
Thanks Gaz (and pincher) sent the Mrs out in the snow :D

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by Knulpuk »

In the case of HMV et al I dont think it the presence of Amazon et al that has caused their demise - even if it contributed to it. There is a fundemental change in the way music and films are being accessed. Buying a CD / DVD will be viewed in 10 years as buying cassettes is viewed today. Digital quality will soon surpass any physical media taking care of the chief argument against digital IMO. Record shops will survive as vinyl survives - to cater for a niche market - there may even be a small revival.

The replacements - Love Film (Amazon) - Netflix (not sure) - will probably end up in the hands of the few. Spotify - be surprised if that was not courted by the likes of Amazon soon enough.

Why buy a CD for £5 when for £10 you can access millions of tracks for the same money.

How the royalties issue resolves itself I am not sure, but overall surely more people will have access to music.

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by Henry Chinaski »

I won't be shedding any tears for the likes of HMV. In the 80's and 90's they were the bully boys that put your local record shop out of business. Now the internet and piracy has done the same to them.

Times have changed and you have to adapt. Musicians now know that they won't make millions from record sales so they have to put themselves out on tour on a regular basis, which I feel is a good thing. In the 1980's top artists just raked in the money from record sales and you never got any chance to see them, Wasn't David Bowie's Serious Moonlight tour in 1983 the first time he's toured since about 1978? It was easy to do when in that time he probably sold several million albums to tide him over.

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by Jonathan »

It's true that this was probably inevitable - music is one of those things so easy to purchase digitally. On the radio it was stated that HMV could have been a massive online player in the digital music world had it acted sooner, but Apple had a huge fight with the music companies to get iTunes up and running, so I am sure HMV had similar issues. Even if they had been successful, it would still have meant store closures.

In my line of work, there is a product called Quark Xpress and for 20 odd years it was the only page layout application you could buy. It was expensive, and their tech support was legendary in being useless. Then along came Adobe with InDesign. The market changed, Quark got their act together after losing massive sales to Adobe. 100s of companies jumped to Adobe who sold a software bundle for less than a single copy of Quark.

A while ago, after nabbing millions of new users - Adobe increased the price of their products hugely.

Competition is essential in all walks of life.

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by DrBunker »

Spencer4 wrote:This may be the case for small camera shops now Jesops has gone, and smaller electrical shops because of Comet etc. Interesting times perhaps, not necessarily the end for our high streets.
I'm not sure how many Comets and HMVs there were in the large shopping malls but I can't see the indi shops affording the rents. The bigger issue, other than online sales, which as Knulpuk says is a natural improvement, is the draw of these large hubs over the traditional highstreet. The rents make it impossible to survive in there without a large network but then the footfall is massively reduced elsewhere.

On the subject of the future, I'd imagine that in conjunction with cloud storage and faster mobile networks we won't physically hold any media within a decade or so. As ever this will mean a lot of change for a number of industries but that's always been the case (e.g. Supermarkets in the 90s).

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by Jonathan »

DrBunker wrote:I'm not sure how many Comets and HMVs there were in the large shopping malls but I can't see the indi shops affording the rents. The bigger issue, other than online sales, which as Knulpuk says is a natural improvement, is the draw of these large hubs over the traditional highstreet. The rents make it impossible to survive in there without a large network but then the footfall is massively reduced elsewhere.
Not sure if this is the same across the country, but I believe you are only allowed to take a shop in our shopping centre in Northampton if you are a national chain. No independents in the privately owned Grosvenor Centre.

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by DrBunker »

To preserve rent consistency I'd guess?

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by flyingkillercob »

Zoolander wrote:The tax dodging juggernaut that is Amazon claims another victim.

Sad.
Just so you know, HMV were operating out of the Channel Islands until last year to avoid tax on internet orders.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe- ... y-19061446" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by Knulpuk »

flyingkillercob wrote:
Zoolander wrote:The tax dodging juggernaut that is Amazon claims another victim.

Sad.
Just so you know, HMV were operating out of the Channel Islands until last year to avoid tax on internet orders.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe- ... y-19061446" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Quite a few company's were entirely based on this VAT tax loophole - Play.com for example (which closed on Jersey last week at the loss of 160 jobs).

Now closed and taken this fulfilment business out of the CI for good.

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by Jonathan »

Knulpuk wrote:Quite a few company's were entirely based on this VAT tax loophole - Play.com for example (which closed on Jersey last week at the loss of 160 jobs).

Now closed and taken this fulfilment business out of the CI for good.
It's tricky isn't it? I remember a while back high street or UK based companies were complaining of the fact play.com could operate in the way it was, and of course we all want cheap CDs, so we go to the cheapest places. It's a CD/DVD - the quality won't vary if you buy it cheaper, and most of us can't notice the different in bitrate on digital downloads.

But now jobs are lost on Jersey (which I wasn't aware of), although I am guessing a good percentage of employees went to Jersey just because of the jobs at play.com - not so much employment for the locals.

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by Knulpuk »

Jonathan wrote:
Knulpuk wrote:Quite a few company's were entirely based on this VAT tax loophole - Play.com for example (which closed on Jersey last week at the loss of 160 jobs).

Now closed and taken this fulfilment business out of the CI for good.
It's tricky isn't it? I remember a while back high street or UK based companies were complaining of the fact play.com could operate in the way it was, and of course we all want cheap CDs, so we go to the cheapest places. It's a CD/DVD - the quality won't vary if you buy it cheaper, and most of us can't notice the different in bitrate on digital downloads.

But now jobs are lost on Jersey (which I wasn't aware of), although I am guessing a good percentage of employees went to Jersey just because of the jobs at play.com - not so much employment for the locals.
No one was too suprised by HMV's demise and even less so by Jessops / Comet. What next I guess Waterstones must be at threat with the growth of the Amazon's of this world and the growth of Kindles / tablets. I know there is an asthetics difference between electronics / physcial books but at what value does this stop to matter.

I want to read Great Expectations: Do I go to Waterstones, hope its in stock and pay £5.99 for a (good) paperback, and spend half an hour in the process. Or do I download the complete works of Dickens for free in 30 seconds?

Travel books - there's an interactive app for that.

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by WilBert »

Knulpuk wrote: I want to read Great Expectations: Do I go to Waterstones, hope its in stock and pay £5.99 for a (good) paperback.
Can't even do that with my vouchers. They stopped accepting vouchers last night. Told to try again in a few weeks. :roll:

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by unc.si. »

I've long wondered how Waterstones manage to survive. High profile, high rental stores with cheap, low overhead competition. Why would anyone go and buy a book there?

They were actually owned by HMV until a couple of years ago - sold to help fund the struggling HMV chain

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Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)

Post by Jonathan »

Knulpuk wrote:No one was too suprised by HMV's demise and even less so by Jessops / Comet. What next I guess Waterstones must be at threat with the growth of the Amazon's of this world and the growth of Kindles / tablets. I know there is an asthetics difference between electronics / physcial books but at what value does this stop to matter.
Which of course Amazon are shifting warehouse loads of by selling at a loss.

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