Another one bites the dust (HMV)
- barry
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 18871
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:43
- Location: moving into fisodas towers
- FPL:
- Contact:
Another one bites the dust (HMV)
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c4096aee-5e82 ... z2HzBGM7AL" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- WilBert
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 7767
- Joined: 28 Dec 2009, 21:07
- Location: 2nd in SP4's Ashes comp.
Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)
Balls got Christmas vouchers to spend. Hope they honour them. Thanks for the heads up. Horrible time for the staff though.
- Achiles74
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 9552
- Joined: 10 Feb 2009, 13:37
- Location: Slam, slam, oh hot damn
- Contact:
Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)
No wonder, when HMV charge fullprice for Dvds it was only a matter of time before they went under with supermarket chains selling them as a loss maker and internet sites able to charge less money due to lower overheads.
Pretty soon all shopping will be carried out over the internet, only a matter of time.
Pretty soon all shopping will be carried out over the internet, only a matter of time.
- Richt
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 11176
- Joined: 26 Jul 2007, 12:12
- Location: South West England.
- FS Record: Averagely consistant.
- FPL:
Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)
A lot of it will yes. But I imagine wimmins clothing shops will stay on the high street as they do tend to like to try shed loads of stuff on. (That's what my Mrs said tonight anyway after she commented about HMV).Achiles74 wrote: Pretty soon all shopping will be carried out over the internet, only a matter of time.
- Zoolander
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 2121
- Joined: 05 Aug 2007, 10:01
- Location: Anywhere but here
- FS Record: Yahoo Fantasy Golf FISO Champion 2009 & 2012, TFF MOTM winner Jan 2012, Tinkerman weekly winner, OFL Golf 2012 - 8th, Fantasy Race To Dubai 2012 - 4th,
- FPL:
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
The tax dodging juggernaut that is Amazon claims another victim.
Sad.
Sad.
- Richt
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 11176
- Joined: 26 Jul 2007, 12:12
- Location: South West England.
- FS Record: Averagely consistant.
- FPL:
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
Zoolander wrote:The tax dodging juggernaut that is Amazon claims another victim.
Sad.
Yes sad, but HMV really should have moved with the times. Achiles has hit the nail on the head, why would anyone want to pay full price for a DVD / CD etc when they are available elsewhere for a lot less?
- Latic
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 11002
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:34
- Location: Inverness or Beverley
- FS Record: Minor past glories. Back for 2021!
- FPL:
Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)
Apart from the staff who suffer I have no sympathy for HMV. In the 90s they were very happy to collude with the music industry and fleece us for the price of CDs. It was only when Tesco etc entered the market then the price of music (rightly) came down. Still, they lasted longer than Virgin Megastores and Our Price.Achiles74 wrote:No wonder, when HMV charge fullprice for Dvds it was only a matter of time before they went under with supermarket chains selling them as a loss maker
Went in last week to fill some gaps in the collection and they were wanting a fortune for back catalogue stuff, very unrealistic.
-
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 3913
- Joined: 15 Mar 2009, 17:52
- FPL:
Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)
Latic wrote:Apart from the staff who suffer I have no sympathy for HMV. In the 90s they were very happy to collude with the music industry and fleece us for the price of CDs.Achiles74 wrote:No wonder, when HMV charge fullprice for Dvds it was only a matter of time before they went under with supermarket chains selling them as a loss maker
+1
The only real surprise for me is that it's taken this long for the inevitable collapse.
- barry
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 18871
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:43
- Location: moving into fisodas towers
- FPL:
- Contact:
Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)
Latic wrote:Apart from the staff who suffer I have no sympathy for HMV. In the 90s they were very happy to collude with the music industry and fleece us for the price of CDs. It was only when Tesco etc entered the market then the price of music (rightly) came down. Still, they lasted longer than Virgin Megastores and Our Price.Achiles74 wrote:No wonder, when HMV charge fullprice for Dvds it was only a matter of time before they went under with supermarket chains selling them as a loss maker
Went in last week to fill some gaps in the collection and they were wanting a fortune for back catalogue stuff, very unrealistic.
I had an REM cd (automatic for the people) stolen years ago and wanted to replace it, £17.99 I had to pay.... and that was the last straw and the last cd I can remember buying.
- Pincher
- Grumpy Old Crab
- Posts: 3378
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
- Location: , location, location ...
- FS Record: Allys Tartan Army
Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)
If your local store IS still trading I would try to get that voucher cashed immediately - generally once places go into administration they won't accept vouchers.WilBert wrote:Balls got Christmas vouchers to spend. Hope they honour them. Thanks for the heads up. Horrible time for the staff though.
- Dixon
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 2603
- Joined: 24 Apr 2012, 07:44
- Location: Chuck Taylor 2008-2012
- FS Record: Current 4 x FISO TFF Champion - Egg Cup League 3, Block League, Super6 League and Open XI League
Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)
Yet Music Magpie would likely value it (like many CDs) at 30pbarry wrote:
I had an REM cd (automatic for the people) stolen years ago and wanted to replace it, £17.99 I had to pay.... and that was the last straw and the last cd I can remember buying.
- Jonathan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 21212
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
- Location: ^ That's my dad! ^ KGC Captain's Drive-in 2015 Champ
- FS Record: OFL Champions League Sprint finalist 10/11
Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)
You can hardly expect a store - which pretty much only sells CDs and DVDs - to do so at a loss. That is unrealistic.Latic wrote:Apart from the staff who suffer I have no sympathy for HMV. In the 90s they were very happy to collude with the music industry and fleece us for the price of CDs. It was only when Tesco etc entered the market then the price of music (rightly) came down. Still, they lasted longer than Virgin Megastores and Our Price.Achiles74 wrote:No wonder, when HMV charge fullprice for Dvds it was only a matter of time before they went under with supermarket chains selling them as a loss maker
Went in last week to fill some gaps in the collection and they were wanting a fortune for back catalogue stuff, very unrealistic.
Yes, the supermarkets may have brought the price of physical CDs down - but they achieve that by bullying suppliers in other areas so they could offer BOGOF deals (the suppliers absorb the cost, not Tesco). All shops in all markets hike up the prices of their merchandise from what they buy them at at trade - but as soon as you get price wars by the big boys, the smaller suppliers will suffer - not just your HMVs but your friendly independent local chains.
It isn't good, no matter how you look at it.
-
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 2657
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:50
- Location: cut down like a vegetable by your hard kickin mother who's an animal
- FS Record: 269th TFF 08/09, 11th TFFO 08/09, 49th TFFE 08/09, 50th Elephant 10/11, 92nd Sky Sports 10/11
Re: Another one nites the dust (HMV)
Exactly. If you only buy your petrol from supermarkets, or you only buy your CDs from supermarkets, then sooner or later you won't be able to buy them anywhere else. Once all the competition is out of the way, let's see how keen they are to offer you cheap petrol then.Jonathan wrote:You can hardly expect a store - which pretty much only sells CDs and DVDs - to do so at a loss. That is unrealistic.Latic wrote:Apart from the staff who suffer I have no sympathy for HMV. In the 90s they were very happy to collude with the music industry and fleece us for the price of CDs. It was only when Tesco etc entered the market then the price of music (rightly) came down. Still, they lasted longer than Virgin Megastores and Our Price.Achiles74 wrote:No wonder, when HMV charge fullprice for Dvds it was only a matter of time before they went under with supermarket chains selling them as a loss maker
Went in last week to fill some gaps in the collection and they were wanting a fortune for back catalogue stuff, very unrealistic.
Yes, the supermarkets may have brought the price of physical CDs down - but they achieve that by bullying suppliers in other areas so they could offer BOGOF deals (the suppliers absorb the cost, not Tesco). All shops in all markets hike up the prices of their merchandise from what they buy them at at trade - but as soon as you get price wars by the big boys, the smaller suppliers will suffer - not just your HMVs but your friendly independent local chains.
It isn't good, no matter how you look at it.
- Spencer4
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 37046
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
- Location: "Spencer4 is correct "
- FS Record: 2008/9 FPL 172nd, 2007/8 TFF 6th, Vid's Predictions winner 2014/5, Fiso TFF Hot shots champ 2015/6, murfs Egg chasers winner 2017 & 2024, winner PB's last man standing golf comp 2018
- FPL:
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
It is an interesting issue.
For years the small independent sellers have been fighting a losing war with HMV, Virgin, Borders etc.
Now, these large high street shops have basically gone, defeated by the cheaper on-line resources. They couldn't make a profit by over-pricing their products any more because on-line showed that the actual goods were available far cheaper. Once these corporate giants realize the cannot make an obscene profit, they're off.
Any small independents who have survived may find themselves on the up now, because there will always be people who want to browse in person.
This may be the case for small camera shops now Jesops has gone, and smaller electrical shops because of Comet etc. Interesting times perhaps, not necessarily the end for our high streets.
For years the small independent sellers have been fighting a losing war with HMV, Virgin, Borders etc.
Now, these large high street shops have basically gone, defeated by the cheaper on-line resources. They couldn't make a profit by over-pricing their products any more because on-line showed that the actual goods were available far cheaper. Once these corporate giants realize the cannot make an obscene profit, they're off.
Any small independents who have survived may find themselves on the up now, because there will always be people who want to browse in person.
This may be the case for small camera shops now Jesops has gone, and smaller electrical shops because of Comet etc. Interesting times perhaps, not necessarily the end for our high streets.
-
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 8707
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:50
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
All vouchers must be used by today or they'll be voidWilBert wrote:Balls got Christmas vouchers to spend. Hope they honour them. Thanks for the heads up. Horrible time for the staff though.
- DixieDean
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 20944
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
- Location: You Got To Have Soul... ♪ ♫
- FS Record: 2 Top 100 finishes in TFFO; £270 in CYKI since 2008
- FPL:
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
I'd agree. Here's a film about independent record shops... There were over 2000 independents in the 80's by 2009 there were 269 left.Spencer4 wrote:It is an interesting issue.
For years the small independent sellers have been fighting a losing war with HMV, Virgin, Borders etc.
Now, these large high street shops have basically gone, defeated by the cheaper on-line resources. They couldn't make a profit by over-pricing their products any more because on-line showed that the actual goods were available far cheaper. Once these corporate giants realize the cannot make an obscene profit, they're off.
Any small independents who have survived may find themselves on the up now, because there will always be people who want to browse in person.
This may be the case for small camera shops now Jesops has gone, and smaller electrical shops because of Comet etc. Interesting times perhaps, not necessarily the end for our high streets.
Last Shop; Standing
- WilBert
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 7767
- Joined: 28 Dec 2009, 21:07
- Location: 2nd in SP4's Ashes comp.
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
Thanks Gaz (and pincher) sent the Mrs out in the snowgazwood wrote:All vouchers must be used by today or they'll be voidWilBert wrote:Balls got Christmas vouchers to spend. Hope they honour them. Thanks for the heads up. Horrible time for the staff though.
- Knulpuk
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 8986
- Joined: 05 Dec 2005, 13:22
- Location: MTA (Mid Table Anonymity)
- FS Record: Ultra ultra consistent (see above)
- FPL:
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
In the case of HMV et al I dont think it the presence of Amazon et al that has caused their demise - even if it contributed to it. There is a fundemental change in the way music and films are being accessed. Buying a CD / DVD will be viewed in 10 years as buying cassettes is viewed today. Digital quality will soon surpass any physical media taking care of the chief argument against digital IMO. Record shops will survive as vinyl survives - to cater for a niche market - there may even be a small revival.
The replacements - Love Film (Amazon) - Netflix (not sure) - will probably end up in the hands of the few. Spotify - be surprised if that was not courted by the likes of Amazon soon enough.
Why buy a CD for £5 when for £10 you can access millions of tracks for the same money.
How the royalties issue resolves itself I am not sure, but overall surely more people will have access to music.
The replacements - Love Film (Amazon) - Netflix (not sure) - will probably end up in the hands of the few. Spotify - be surprised if that was not courted by the likes of Amazon soon enough.
Why buy a CD for £5 when for £10 you can access millions of tracks for the same money.
How the royalties issue resolves itself I am not sure, but overall surely more people will have access to music.
- Henry Chinaski
- FISOhead
- Posts: 858
- Joined: 03 May 2010, 04:42
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
I won't be shedding any tears for the likes of HMV. In the 80's and 90's they were the bully boys that put your local record shop out of business. Now the internet and piracy has done the same to them.
Times have changed and you have to adapt. Musicians now know that they won't make millions from record sales so they have to put themselves out on tour on a regular basis, which I feel is a good thing. In the 1980's top artists just raked in the money from record sales and you never got any chance to see them, Wasn't David Bowie's Serious Moonlight tour in 1983 the first time he's toured since about 1978? It was easy to do when in that time he probably sold several million albums to tide him over.
Times have changed and you have to adapt. Musicians now know that they won't make millions from record sales so they have to put themselves out on tour on a regular basis, which I feel is a good thing. In the 1980's top artists just raked in the money from record sales and you never got any chance to see them, Wasn't David Bowie's Serious Moonlight tour in 1983 the first time he's toured since about 1978? It was easy to do when in that time he probably sold several million albums to tide him over.
- Jonathan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 21212
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
- Location: ^ That's my dad! ^ KGC Captain's Drive-in 2015 Champ
- FS Record: OFL Champions League Sprint finalist 10/11
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
It's true that this was probably inevitable - music is one of those things so easy to purchase digitally. On the radio it was stated that HMV could have been a massive online player in the digital music world had it acted sooner, but Apple had a huge fight with the music companies to get iTunes up and running, so I am sure HMV had similar issues. Even if they had been successful, it would still have meant store closures.
In my line of work, there is a product called Quark Xpress and for 20 odd years it was the only page layout application you could buy. It was expensive, and their tech support was legendary in being useless. Then along came Adobe with InDesign. The market changed, Quark got their act together after losing massive sales to Adobe. 100s of companies jumped to Adobe who sold a software bundle for less than a single copy of Quark.
A while ago, after nabbing millions of new users - Adobe increased the price of their products hugely.
Competition is essential in all walks of life.
In my line of work, there is a product called Quark Xpress and for 20 odd years it was the only page layout application you could buy. It was expensive, and their tech support was legendary in being useless. Then along came Adobe with InDesign. The market changed, Quark got their act together after losing massive sales to Adobe. 100s of companies jumped to Adobe who sold a software bundle for less than a single copy of Quark.
A while ago, after nabbing millions of new users - Adobe increased the price of their products hugely.
Competition is essential in all walks of life.
- DrBunker
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 19050
- Joined: 02 Jan 2007, 11:13
- Location: Proud to be owned by DMWSL613 Limited
- FS Record: FISODAS season 21 Premiership champion
- FPL:
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
I'm not sure how many Comets and HMVs there were in the large shopping malls but I can't see the indi shops affording the rents. The bigger issue, other than online sales, which as Knulpuk says is a natural improvement, is the draw of these large hubs over the traditional highstreet. The rents make it impossible to survive in there without a large network but then the footfall is massively reduced elsewhere.Spencer4 wrote:This may be the case for small camera shops now Jesops has gone, and smaller electrical shops because of Comet etc. Interesting times perhaps, not necessarily the end for our high streets.
On the subject of the future, I'd imagine that in conjunction with cloud storage and faster mobile networks we won't physically hold any media within a decade or so. As ever this will mean a lot of change for a number of industries but that's always been the case (e.g. Supermarkets in the 90s).
- Jonathan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 21212
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
- Location: ^ That's my dad! ^ KGC Captain's Drive-in 2015 Champ
- FS Record: OFL Champions League Sprint finalist 10/11
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
Not sure if this is the same across the country, but I believe you are only allowed to take a shop in our shopping centre in Northampton if you are a national chain. No independents in the privately owned Grosvenor Centre.DrBunker wrote:I'm not sure how many Comets and HMVs there were in the large shopping malls but I can't see the indi shops affording the rents. The bigger issue, other than online sales, which as Knulpuk says is a natural improvement, is the draw of these large hubs over the traditional highstreet. The rents make it impossible to survive in there without a large network but then the footfall is massively reduced elsewhere.
- DrBunker
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 19050
- Joined: 02 Jan 2007, 11:13
- Location: Proud to be owned by DMWSL613 Limited
- FS Record: FISODAS season 21 Premiership champion
- FPL:
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
To preserve rent consistency I'd guess?
- flyingkillercob
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 5399
- Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 19:24
- FS Record: murf’s African Nations Cup 2012 Winner. FISO Goals 15/16 & 17/18 Winner.
- FPL:
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
Just so you know, HMV were operating out of the Channel Islands until last year to avoid tax on internet orders.Zoolander wrote:The tax dodging juggernaut that is Amazon claims another victim.
Sad.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe- ... y-19061446" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Knulpuk
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 8986
- Joined: 05 Dec 2005, 13:22
- Location: MTA (Mid Table Anonymity)
- FS Record: Ultra ultra consistent (see above)
- FPL:
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
Quite a few company's were entirely based on this VAT tax loophole - Play.com for example (which closed on Jersey last week at the loss of 160 jobs).flyingkillercob wrote:Just so you know, HMV were operating out of the Channel Islands until last year to avoid tax on internet orders.Zoolander wrote:The tax dodging juggernaut that is Amazon claims another victim.
Sad.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe- ... y-19061446" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Now closed and taken this fulfilment business out of the CI for good.
- Jonathan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 21212
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
- Location: ^ That's my dad! ^ KGC Captain's Drive-in 2015 Champ
- FS Record: OFL Champions League Sprint finalist 10/11
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
It's tricky isn't it? I remember a while back high street or UK based companies were complaining of the fact play.com could operate in the way it was, and of course we all want cheap CDs, so we go to the cheapest places. It's a CD/DVD - the quality won't vary if you buy it cheaper, and most of us can't notice the different in bitrate on digital downloads.Knulpuk wrote:Quite a few company's were entirely based on this VAT tax loophole - Play.com for example (which closed on Jersey last week at the loss of 160 jobs).
Now closed and taken this fulfilment business out of the CI for good.
But now jobs are lost on Jersey (which I wasn't aware of), although I am guessing a good percentage of employees went to Jersey just because of the jobs at play.com - not so much employment for the locals.
- Knulpuk
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 8986
- Joined: 05 Dec 2005, 13:22
- Location: MTA (Mid Table Anonymity)
- FS Record: Ultra ultra consistent (see above)
- FPL:
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
No one was too suprised by HMV's demise and even less so by Jessops / Comet. What next I guess Waterstones must be at threat with the growth of the Amazon's of this world and the growth of Kindles / tablets. I know there is an asthetics difference between electronics / physcial books but at what value does this stop to matter.Jonathan wrote:It's tricky isn't it? I remember a while back high street or UK based companies were complaining of the fact play.com could operate in the way it was, and of course we all want cheap CDs, so we go to the cheapest places. It's a CD/DVD - the quality won't vary if you buy it cheaper, and most of us can't notice the different in bitrate on digital downloads.Knulpuk wrote:Quite a few company's were entirely based on this VAT tax loophole - Play.com for example (which closed on Jersey last week at the loss of 160 jobs).
Now closed and taken this fulfilment business out of the CI for good.
But now jobs are lost on Jersey (which I wasn't aware of), although I am guessing a good percentage of employees went to Jersey just because of the jobs at play.com - not so much employment for the locals.
I want to read Great Expectations: Do I go to Waterstones, hope its in stock and pay £5.99 for a (good) paperback, and spend half an hour in the process. Or do I download the complete works of Dickens for free in 30 seconds?
Travel books - there's an interactive app for that.
- WilBert
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 7767
- Joined: 28 Dec 2009, 21:07
- Location: 2nd in SP4's Ashes comp.
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
Can't even do that with my vouchers. They stopped accepting vouchers last night. Told to try again in a few weeks.Knulpuk wrote: I want to read Great Expectations: Do I go to Waterstones, hope its in stock and pay £5.99 for a (good) paperback.
- unc.si.
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 11775
- Joined: 11 Oct 2010, 14:08
- Location: Off to buy Loctite
- FS Record: 'Loser' by Beck
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
I've long wondered how Waterstones manage to survive. High profile, high rental stores with cheap, low overhead competition. Why would anyone go and buy a book there?
They were actually owned by HMV until a couple of years ago - sold to help fund the struggling HMV chain
They were actually owned by HMV until a couple of years ago - sold to help fund the struggling HMV chain
- Jonathan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 21212
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
- Location: ^ That's my dad! ^ KGC Captain's Drive-in 2015 Champ
- FS Record: OFL Champions League Sprint finalist 10/11
Re: Another one bites the dust (HMV)
Which of course Amazon are shifting warehouse loads of by selling at a loss.Knulpuk wrote:No one was too suprised by HMV's demise and even less so by Jessops / Comet. What next I guess Waterstones must be at threat with the growth of the Amazon's of this world and the growth of Kindles / tablets. I know there is an asthetics difference between electronics / physcial books but at what value does this stop to matter.
View Latest: 1 Day View Your posts