The Water of Life, OR "Well, I'll be dram'd..."

[chotasahib]

Carry-over topic from another forum, in which we got distracted from double gameweeks with talk of singlemalts.

Just had a nice non-wee dram of Laphroaig.

As I mentioned in the other thread, Lagavulin is my favorite, but I do also love Laphroaig, and finished up a bottle of same just a couple weeks ago. My wife (not a whisky fan) tried a sip from my glass..."Seaweed, brine, iodine, and medicine cabinet," pronounced she. "You say that as if it's a bad thing," I replied.

are you in the states? i was an occasional buyer of lagavulin a couple of years ago at that price, but i hadn't realised it had shot up to that!

Yes, I'm in North Carolina. Maybe Lagavulin has just gone nuts here--I haven't looked for it in other states, recently. (Note to self...)

islays are my fav too. macallan is excellent as well. there's an innovative tasting one from ireland called castle knappogue also. may go to the whiskies of the world expo in san fran again this year... http://www.celticmalts.com/expo2006SF-home.htm

I'm quite fond of the Macallan, too--one of my favorite Speysides. Although the best I've had from Speyside in recent times was Glenmorangie 18-yr old--an absolute delight. The expo in San Fran sounds like great fun--wish I could go!

give Bowmore a try next time you see some around. the distillery is next door to the isle of islay big boys. picked up a bottle when i was over in scotland in october. a lovely tipple.

Yes, agreed that Bowmore is good, although it's been a long time since I've had any. Did you go to the distillery, there? I've heard it's lovely.


Other favorites (in any of their expressions): Highland Park, Talisker, the Balvenie and (as mentioned in other thread) Ardbeg. My father-in-law brought me back a bottle of Isle of Arran a couple years ago, which was nice, since you can't get it here (or couldn't yet, at the time). Not a bad new entry on the scene.

[redrum]

give Bowmore a try next time you see some around. the distillery is next door to the isle of islay big boys. picked up a bottle when i was over in scotland in october. a lovely tipple.

Yes, agreed that Bowmore is good, although it's been a long time since I've had any. Did you go to the distillery, there? I've heard it's lovely.


Other favorites (in any of their expressions): Highland Park, Talisker, the Balvenie and (as mentioned in other thread) Ardbeg. My father-in-law brought me back a bottle of Isle of Arran a couple years ago, which was nice, since you can't get it here (or couldn't yet, at the time). Not a bad new entry on the scene.

no, we were in the highlands and only did a distillery tour at The Glenlivet. also picked up a bottle of cragganmore while over there. while over there was also given a bottle of jw blue which a friend received as a corporate gift and didn't want. seriously under-whelmed ... not that great and way way overpriced.

[uncsimes]

Lagavulin, Macallan and Talisker are currently residing in my drinks cupboard- all 3 mentioned above.

Of the 3 Talisker probably my favourite. Been to the distillery a couple of times on rainy days when climbing on Skye. Used to cost about £3 to go around the distillery but you got a dram at the end and a voucher for £3 off a bottle, so well worth the visit.

No expert on malts, but do enjoy a good one.

[murf]

Did have 3 bottles in my cupboard and have finished them all recently (whisky has become my drink of choice of late)

1. Talisker - have liked this peaty brew since a visit to the distillery a few years back (on a deserved day off from hiking up the Cuillins)

2. Laphroaig - while in Scotland last summer talked to a bloke singing its praises. Was also reading Iain Banks' whisky book at the time and he made it sound 'interesting' so I tried a dram and then bought a bottle. Love it now and replace the bottle each time it empties. Probably as 'full on' a flavour as you can get. Mrs m hates the smell and would ban it from the house if she could.

3. Glenfiddich - has long been my 'standard' single malt choice. This one was a bottle of billion year old Gran Reserva (think thats the right name and OK its not a billion years old but..). Its the special edition one matured in sherry casks and costs about £50-£60 a bottle. Largely bought on Iain Banks recommendation. Also have an unopened bottle of one of the Glenfiddich £20-£30 specials (cant remember which one, think Tescos do 2 or 3 different ones) -it may well lose its cherry tonight.....

I will stop now as I'm on a water and tea diet this afternoon.

[el_pappje]

Current tipple is a Glenfarclas 17y.o. my father-in-law gave me - helps having a malt connoisseur for a father-in-law!

Had first Bowmore a few months back - was hugely impressed. Other than that am keen on Highland Park, Macallan and Jura, although am gradually increasing my range of experience.

Interested to how other FISO whiskyers take their drams - I have become increasingly fond of the peatier names since adopting a good splash of water with each glass.

[thelip]

Maybe we should have EM VIII at the Whisky Society in Edinburgh.

[uncsimes]

Interested to how other FISO whiskyers take their drams - I have become increasingly fond of the peatier names since adopting a good splash of water with each glass.

Straight.

Nothing added except maybe 1 cube of ice, although usually prefer without.

[murf]

Straight.

For those adding water why not try drinking Heineken straight instead?

[Mark R]

3. Glenfiddich - has long been my 'standard' single malt choice. This one was a bottle of billion year old Gran Reserva (think thats the right name and OK its not a billion years old but..). Its the special edition one matured in sherry casks and costs about £50-£60 a bottle. Largely bought on Iain Banks recommendation. Also have an unopened bottle of one of the Glenfiddich £20-£30 specials (cant remember which one, think Tescos do 2 or 3 different ones) -it may well lose its cherry tonight.....

Did the Glenfiddich distilery about 30 years ago. It was just outside Girvan at the time, dont know where it is know. Was intrested to find out gin and vodka are a by product of producing whiskey. The reason they use sherry, and other barrels, is simply that barrels can be used time and time again, where a barrel for sherry can ojnly be used n amount of times. Whiskey distileries therefore buy barrels that are no longer any good to other producers but will serve thier purpose and save money. Dont think you are supposed to put cherries or those little umbrellas in though murf.

[el_pappje]

Straight.

For those adding water why not try drinking Heineken straight instead?

Now then, now then......

Used to take it straight but after several natives informed me of the merits of adding a jot of water I tried it myself - and who is to argue with them? I find the Laphroaigs etc. much more enjoyable with a little bit of water - none of the flavour is lost but isn't too overpowering. Each to their own - wonder what the FISO natives think?

[chotasahib]

To those who only like your whisky straight, I'll never begrudge you that opinion. However, adding a slight bit of clean, cool water (as el_pappje says, a jot) most certainly has noticeable benefits in some whiskies. Most specifically, it releases esthers in the whisky, increasing the nose. I almost never add any water to a "frailer" or "more elegant" whisky, like most Speysides. But for those divine, peat-and-smoke-and-salt-slinging heavyweights from the Hebrides, a slight splash can really enhance an already wonderful experience.

Any of you who have so far disdained such practice, I recommend you do some experimenting. You might be favorably surprised. (And again, we're talking a mere drizzle, here--it's not going to appreciably dilute your drink.)

[chotasahib]

The reason they use sherry, and other barrels, is simply that barrels can be used time and time again, where a barrel for sherry can ojnly be used n amount of times. Whiskey distileries therefore buy barrels that are no longer any good to other producers but will serve thier purpose and save money.

That's particularly true of charred oak barrels that were used in the U.S. for bourbon production (almost exclusively in Kentucky--forget that Tennessee swill), as those barrels are used once and then sold. They're ideal for single malt production in Scotland, as they help add taste and color to the final product.

I think the use of port and sherry barrels, while it began the same way, has become more of a refinement and marketing thing. As we've all seen, a distiller like Glenmorangie or Macallan will really hype particular expressions that were finished in sherry or port barrels (and they will mark them up in commensurate fashion), and I suspect this trend now drives their acquisitions of those kinds of barrels more than the recycling motive does. But hey, it results in good whisky, I'm not knocking it!

el_pappje, I still have not tried Glenfarclas. Will need to rectify that, one of these days. You mention Isle of Jura, and that's become one of my favorites in the category of "reliably available in my area and won't break the bank."

[murf]

Was browsing some bottles tonight in the shop and one or two recommend the addition of water to release the flavour. You learn something new.....

link to Iain Banks' great book about Whisky and loads of other stuff on the way

[Spencer4]

Was browsing some bottles tonight in the shop and one or two recommend the addition of water to release the flavour. You learn something new.....

link to Iain Banks' great book about Whisky and loads of other stuff on the way

I read that last year, and it makes me want to impress upon Mrs Sp4 the importance of Scotland and her malt whisky industry. A Scottish holiday is in the offing

[murf]

I read it during my Scottish holiday last year.

Mrs m had never been north of the border before. She liked it though so we're probably going back later this year. No distillery tours likely

[chotasahib]

I'll have to check out the Banks book, one of these days. I'm pretty sure I've seen it in stores, here.

I own this guide by Michael Jackson (no, the other one--not the space alien, but rather the connoisseur of beer and whisky), and it's very good.

I really want to get ahold of some older Port Ellen one day, but that's unlikely since my goose stopped laying golden eggs.

[viddleodge]

Was browsing some bottles tonight in the shop and one or two recommend the addition of water to release the flavour. You learn something new.....

link to Iain Banks' great book about Whisky and loads of other stuff on the way

did you read some of the reviews on amazon? some of those critics must have a fair axe to grind with him but are a pretty funny read.

[viddleodge]

I own this guide by Michael Jackson (no, the other one--not the space alien, but rather the connoisseur of beer and whisky), and it's very good.

saw him lecture a few years back. he's pretty good. enjoyed his political opinion of the big us breweries too. talking of lectures, was lucky to see the macallan one at the whisky expo. i'd just seen the makers mark bourbon lecture and hung around talking to a couple of young journalists for food & wine magazine. as americans, for the most part, they were affected with the discovery of an aussie living in california, but the general chit-chat passed the time as the curators set up the next lecture and before long the doors had re-opened. well, we only had to walk a few paces and we were sitting down with our own rare selections of macallan. the highlights being part drams of a 60 yr. old $10,000 bottle and 50 yr. old $6000 bottle. funnily enough i actually preferred the cheaper 50 yr. old drop. well, i was tickled pink by the whole thing. i found out later that only about 50 or so from the 200 strong queue had managed to get into that lecture. so i'd been very fortunate indeed. possibly akin to, say, transfering in a sunderland defender right before going on a mad hat-trick & clean sheet spree! sorry, i should stay focussed on the topic.

[viddleodge]

do prefer it these days with a smidge of water, unless it's the blended whiskies, and then they already taste like they've had water added to them. mrs v gave me a bottle of glenmorangie 10 yr. old for xmas which very enjoyable, then a mate gave me a bottle of single barrel wild turkey for new years. my favs would be macallan (18 yr old), lagavulin, laphraoig, highland park, & castle knappogue. and of the bourbons probably woodford reserve is my fav.
there was one in oz called corio bay which was just by a major oil refinery. i used to think they made it from the fumes cracked off the refining of the crude, but no. probably not.

[tom4nash]

Was browsing some bottles tonight in the shop and one or two recommend the addition of water to release the flavour. You learn something new.....

link to Iain Banks' great book about Whisky and loads of other stuff on the way

I've been lucky enough to have spent time with both Bill Samuels, the CEO/master distiller from Maker's Mark, and the late Booker Noe, grandson of Jim Beam and master distiller for Beam Distillery. They both are/were of the opinion that whisky/whiskey should be drank with a touch of water.

The reasoning is the effect that alcohol at that level has on your taste buds. There is a temporary burning or numbing of the taste buds that inhibit their ability to give you the full flavor notes of the whiskey. This is especially true if you're drinking proofs in the 90 to 120 range. Water has the benefit of cutting the alcohol to more reasonable levels for the taste buds to handle without effecting the flavor. Both Mr. Samuels and Mr. Noe insisted that, if anything, it will in fact "open" the flavor profiles by adding water. In Kentucky, it's called "bourbon and branch" (water). I tend to be as picky about my water as I am about my whiskey.

My whiskey of choice is the 10yr old/107proof Old Rip Van Winkle bourbon whiskey.

For special occasions I turn to the 15yr old/107proof Van Winkle, the 20yr old/90proof "Pappy" Van Winkle, and, the daddy, the 23yr old/95proof "Pappy" Van Winkle Family Reserve. The only thing as mind blowing as the Van Winkle Family Reserve is the bottle of pot-distilled 20yr old/91proof A.H. Hirsch bourbon I have from the now defunct Hirsch Distillery in Pennsylvania.

If I'm out in a bar or pub then it's generally Maker's Mark. Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, it's about the best value in whiskey I've found and it's easy to find around the world.

I've had many a snort/dram with chotasahib over the years and, while I haven't changed his mind about scotch, I've gotten him off that Tennessee swill and on to drinking the "good stuff". He has, in turn, enlightened me of the pleasures of single malt whiskys. I'm especially fond of the Glenmorangie Sherry cask and 18yr old reserves I've tried.

Hasn't changed my mind about bourbon, though

[redrum]

the friendly lass who showed us round The Glenlivet was firm in her views that a little water should be added to release the flavours of the dram. with regard to the temperature of the water, the view was that it made little difference - so a few drops of room temp water or a small block of ice would not make a difference.

on the subject of barrels, The Glenlivet are producing an experimental whisky which is transferred from the sherry barrels to french oak (the same type as those used for wine production) a year prior to bottling. the thinking is that market research has shown that one of the main reasons why women do not drink whisky is the long finish (i.e. burn). A year in oak barrels seems to remove that effect. the oak finish Glenlivet is available to buy and is distinguishable in that it has a small purple label underneath the usual label.

may be a wise tactic to pick up a bottle ... could help with planning those future distillery tours

[uncsimes]

Well yet again I've learned something unexpected from a Fantasy Sports forum.

I think a test is required tonight to compare the flavour of some Tallisker with and without a splash of water

Reminds me of that TV clip where some female TV presenter was taste testing 3 different qualities of whisky....

[eric cauldhame]

bells with canada dry ginger. cant be beaten

[tom4nash]

Reading this thread I was reminded of a good essay on whiskey and water. It's worth a read:

http://www.thewhiskystore.de/beginner/mineral.htm

[murf]

I tried some water with my Laphroaig last night and it totally wrecked it!

Killed half the flavour and most of the 'burn' and certainly released no extra flavour (perish the thought with Laphroaig ).

I only added about 1 pt water to 3 pts whisky. Should I have used less???

(I used the rubbish mineral water to hand - Vittel I think)



And.... if adding water releases more flavour then why don't the distilleries whilst diluting to 40% add even more water???

[tom4nash]

And.... if adding water releases more flavour then why don't the distilleries whilst diluting to 40% add even more water???

Do you really want an answer to this or are you just having a laugh?


BTW- 1pt H2O to 3pts whisky? Did you want something to clean the kitchen with or something to drink?

A mere splash, murf... a mere splash. A wave of the wand, if you will.

[murf]

And.... if adding water releases more flavour then why don't the distilleries whilst diluting to 40% add even more water???

Do you really want an answer to this or are you just having a laugh?

I was being serious. I assume there is some way that the water acts differently when added in the glass to when added at the bottling stage. This whole topic has me confused - in these circumstances I usually just assume the experts are right but my experiment last night showed otherwise. I'll try adding a mere dash of water but if that doesn't work I'll go back to drinking it straight (and feel more manly in the process ).

Don't think I'll buy any 'cask strength' just yet though

[viddleodge]

the friendly lass who showed us round The Glenlivet was firm in her views that a little water should be added to release the flavours of the dram. with regard to the temperature of the water, the view was that it made little difference - so a few drops of room temp water or a small block of ice would not make a difference.

standard cool to room temp water yes. obviously not boiling but not really cold either. i understand that ice is an absolute no-no. it totally crushes the notes, sort of thermally shocking them. the craze of having it on the rocks was more of a marketing thing that the johnie walkers of the industry do to switch folks onto the product.

i heard a fun tale about a distillery in scotland in ww2. dunno if it's true. some german bomber was on his mission to london but there was so much fog & cloud over western europe that he came out at the north of scotland. that's quite a long way off, but anyway, he saw some lights below and decided to drop a bomb. well, those lights were a distillery whose whisky was blown into the surrounding dairy cow fields. needless to say the local townsfolk enjoyed the best milk for some time.

edit.. think this was auchentoshan http://www.whiskyclassified.com/auchentoshan.html which is by glasgow and not northern scotland, but i might not be recalling that part of the story correctly. still a long way off london, but could be true.

[el_pappje]

no need to bother with mineral water I don't think murf although suppose is dependent on quality of tap water down your way, up here is the best quality I know in the UK.

Ultimately if you prefer it straight you prefer it straight. No different to "over"chilling white wine.

On a cold winter's day I occasionally like to drip a drop into some porridge - a cracking way to start the day

[murf]

Not sure I should trust the advice of somebody who likes porridge!