Books

[kizkiz]

Just tried that website for pratchett and majority of the other authors i already read, so it was spot on

[snout]

Having another browse showed up Nicole Krauss as someone I might like. Any recommendations? "Great House" is her latest and looks good.

For a laugh, I typed in a certain ex-jailbird's name in to the webiste: http://www.literature-map.com/jeffrey+archer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was shocked to see John Le Carre's name in the same universe as him.

[Billy Whiz]

Both books are very good, although I remain hooked on later George Eliot right now. If there is a better English novel than Middlemarch I have not read it. I am currently in the middle of Daniel Deronda ...

The Mill on the Floss, also by George Eliot, is better than Middlemarch in my view. It's got the same powers of observation, delineation of character, etc, but the storyline is more interesting. I also enjoyed Silas Marner, which is mercifully short! As for Daniel Deronda, you might have been better off watching the excellent 2002 BBC series (Hugh Bonneville, Hugh Dancy, Romola Garai and Jodhi May) - still available on DVD, by the way.

So what is the best 19th century English novel? For me, it's between Dickens's Little Dorrit and Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre.

[tommymooney]

Great Expectations for me (or Les Mis as mentioned earlier)

[Pouzar]

Gwendolen Harleth in Daniel Deronda is the most impressive and fully realized character I have found in an English novel. Eliot, surely the most intellectual of all English writers, knows this kind of woman better than anyone else and brings her to life with a depth of psychological insight that took my breath away. I had to go back and keep re-reading the crucial passages portraying both the external pressures and personal traits that led to the crucial decision of her life to see how masterfully it was choreographed. Unfortunately the other half of the book, which ultimately documents Deronda's religious exaltation over the Zionist impulse simply does not work.
The character of Isabel Archer in James's great Portrait of a Lady is wonderful but it is clearly modeled on Gwendolen, a standard he cannot match, presenting her youthful egoism without the required irony supplied by Eliot. Still, a superb book and highly recommended. James portrait of the English aristocracy isn't nearly as nuanced as Eliot's either.
More than any other English author, Eliot's later work reflects a profound understanding of how much our lives are determined by exterior events and how easily we forfeit what independence we do have and fail to realize our dreams as we attempt to navigate our way through the maze of life. The character of Dr. Tertius Lydgate in Middlemarch is a brilliantly realized example of this. He is a gifted man with an excellent plan for scientific achievement and eternal fame who misses his chance thanks to character flaws and two decisions in which he foolishly forfeits his independence. Only Eliot could have given us such a strikingly authentic portrait of flawed genius and of the nature of an intellectual passion.

[Billy Whiz]

Eliot, surely the most intellectual of all English writers ...

More intellectual than James Joyce? OK, he's Irish (although he's usually regarded as part of the English Lit tradition). And what about Virginia Woolf?

More than any other English author, Eliot's later work reflects a profound understanding of how much our lives are determined by exterior events

More so than Thomas Hardy?

Some interesting points about Henry James though.

[Pouzar]

Joyce, if he was English, would be the intellectual competition, but in a different way. Although Eliot was largely self taught she clearly has a broad education in art and thought in all forms, including the classics and an understanding of the intellectual mind and life. Joyce was a kind of freak, however, with an encyclopedic grasp of western civilization in all its forms and of countless languages, both live and dead His work is almost entirely autobiographical however. Just as Stephen Deadalus of both his novels is the young Joyce and Buck Mulligan is his former roommate Oliver Gogarty. Not quite sure where Bloom comes from though, possibly his father. Gabriel Conrov of The Dead is clearly Joyce if he had never left Ireland. Eliot's later work is crammed with amazingly insightful and thought provoking comments about human nature and behavior as she is an unparalleled observer of people. The writer she reminds me most of is Tolstoy, who at her best she approaches. If I can cram it in I would like to re-read Anna Karenina this summer, although I really want to take a run at Eliot's Felix Holt: The Radical. Working my way through the Great Gadsby at the moment. Nothing like retirement!

[unc.si.]

Who is this Great Gadsby of whom you speak??

George Elliot eh - never read any of his stuff - will have to give him a try.



joke - I know he's a she

[golden bear]

Who is this Great Gadsby of whom you speak??

Must be the trans-adlantic accent.

[unc.si.]

Thad'll be it

[Billy Whiz]

You can read The Great Gatsby in a day, Pouzar - not like those 19th-century doorsteps. Or wait for the new film to come out

[Pouzar]

True enough Billy, if I had nothing else to do. Actually after 4 years back on campus I am deeply into the student approach, with plenty of highlighting, copious notes and observations in the margins, re-reading of important passages, time spent reflecting on the sections read and frequent use of the dictionary to capture the precise meaning of words, etc. So I will likely take 3 or 4 days with The GG. I am even tempted to buy a notebook and follow a practice my favourite Prof utilizes of spending 15 to 20 minutes writing freely about the last 20 or 30 pages you just finished. Helps you focus and is interesting to return to later.

Unc - George Eliot is a woman. Not sure if you were teasing me on that one. Serves me tight for misspelling Gatsby, a mistake I would never make with the Great Gretzky for example. Mary Ann Evans apparently thought male readers wouldn't take her seriously enough if she used her real name. No doubt she was right.

[unc.si.]

Pouzar - yes, I did realise (see tiny white text on my post above). It is true that I've not read any Eliot though - as I said more a fan of 20th Century lit rather than the classics.

Would be nice to have the time to really absorb books like you are doing. Too many things to do, too little time. Not sure I'd have the patience though even if I did have the time. There aren't that many books that I've re-read, although those that I have I've enjoyed more the second (or 3rd) time through - Gatsby, Mockingbird, All Quiet, Lolita and Mice and Men being ones that I can think of off the top of my head. Oh - The Dead as well, which I'd not read until you mentioned it a while back but which has now slowly swooned my soul about another 3 times. Great story and one that would probably be even better with a fuller understanding of Irish history.

[Pouzar]

The interesting thing is that, as I said, The Dead and the character Gabriel Conroy are clearly meant to be a picture of the life he would have led if he hadn't left Ireland with Nora Barnacle to become a great writer. The Portrait of the Artist illustrates why he, as the character Stephen Dedalus, has to leave to become a creative artist. To him the dead hand of the church and of Irish history (remember ''history is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake,'') are holding him back and he will never achieve artistic freedom without escaping. He explains all this to his friend Cranly near the end of the novel. Of course he wrote The Dead before Portrait although clearly it is set later. If I recall there are a number of metaphors and images in The Dead that reinforce the fact that Ireland is a dead place just spinning its wheels. There is one story about a horse pulling a relative of his in a carriage that reaches a roundabout and keeps circling endlessly, for example.
I believe the ending provides the finest example of the famous Joycean epiphany, a moment of insight in which he sees, painfully, what he has become, essentially a pretentious blowhard ''orating to vulgarians,'' and imagining a passion in his wife's eyes which is actually her memory of a young boy from the gas works, Michael Furey, who literally died for her love years ago, making him feel like an utter fool and failure but punctures his snobbery and fills him with the warmth of human sympathy for others.
Finally there is that unforgettably lyrical final passage in which the snow, ''Which is universal all over Ireland,'' symbolizes the end of his class superiority and unites him with all the living and the dead, like the snow that is falling on every part of Ireland, including the churchyard where Michael Furey lies buried. Magnificent.
One of these days I will re-read Ulysses but with a companion guide that notes all the allusions, including the many to aspects and events of Irish history. Not this summer though. You are right about retirement. I can read as much as I like, though I choose my courses and profs very carefully and devote myself during the school year to the material we are covering. I believe the course on Middlemarch and The Wire, in which I worked like a slave, was the best I have taken, in terms of how much I got out of it. I was invited by a prof the year before to take a graduate seminar course he was teaching on Ulysses, but i told him I didn't think I was quite ready for it. That will be the next step I think. Not to formally become a graduate student. I don't want to take the place of some young person, but to take some graduate courses, probably in English, although possibly in film studies as well. To be honest the part that scares me is the formalistic demands of essay writing at that level. I can handle the content, but am useless at following the MLA Handbook for Writers of research papers. I don't know where to use caps, or italics in footnotes etc. which grad students, who aim to be published and move up the ladder must master. I am attracted to depth of interpretation and use of theory. And of course I need plenty of time to follow the Oilers like a fanatic and pay attention to the Prem League, plus enoy some kind of social life!

[Billy Whiz]

There aren't that many books that I've re-read, although those that I have I've enjoyed more the second (or 3rd) time through - Gatsby, Mockingbird, All Quiet, Lolita and Mice and Men being ones that I can think of off the top of my head.

I'm the same - those books that I have read again I've enjoyed more the second time (including your Gatsby and Mice and Men, and Pouzar's Portrait of the Artist - but not Middlemarch, it's too bloody long to read twice!). As you say, the problem is the time available - there are far more great books that I haven't read than that I have, so the temptation is always to plough on with new ones rather than savour old ones.

It's funny how we're reluctant to re-read books we've enjoyed. We wouldn't adopt that attitude to music - "Oh, that's a brilliant album, but I've already heard it once so I won't bother listening to it again."

[Pouzar]

Agreed Billy. I believe all the great books should be re-read and all the great films should be re-watched, including the ones we enjoyed, especially if we read or watched them in our youth. The books don't change but we do. Reading Moby Dick again after 40 years was a real eye-opener. It reminds me of what Aristotle said about people not being allowed to read works of philosophy until they were 30 because before then they didn't have the experience of life necessary to judge or appreciate them. He was thinking more of political philosophy or ethics of course, as logic or, say, philosophy of language do not really require experience. How can we judge a Tolstoy, Shakespeare or Chaucer without having observed and reflected on human nature and behavior for decades?
You were right by the way. Even taking my time I finished Gatsby in 2 days. Wonderful book. Love those lines in the end about the Dutch explorers who 'discovered' NY gazing at ''The fresh, green breast of the new world.'' Next up? I think The Bostonians by Henry James.

[tommymooney]

The great thing about the great Gatsby it is feels like there is not a wasted word - quite a short book - nothing in it seems like padding!

[Pouzar]

Fitzgerald crams a whole lot into that short novel. Some provocative ideas, some wonderful imagery and some beautiful writing. What stands out to me is the lost promise of the new world. The way the American dream and the limitless opportunity it once represented has been corrupted and the amoral Roaring Twenties are the ideal backdrop to make that point. No one in the book seems to work, reflect on things or do much of anything. No one has any sense of direction or moral compass either, apart from Nick. The book really takes it to the shallowness of the rich, like Gatsby with his fabulous library of unopened books and his wild parties of strangers and phony friends, not a single one of whom shows up for his funeral.

Any one who knows the brilliant TV series Mad Men should make the connection between James Gatz - Jay Gatsby and Dick Whitman - Don Draper. Two men from very humble backgrounds (Draper's mom was a prostitute) who totally re-invent themselves because a restless, ambitious voice inside them tells them they are destined for bigger and better things. Draper uses his vision and competitiveness to become the go-to guy on Madison Avenue in the early 1960s, marries a beautiful model, has kids, but cannot fill that huge hole in his soul and remains restless and miserable.

Gatsby escapes from barren North Dakota, develops street smarts and discovers his dream in the beautiful Daisy and her wealthy home in Louisville but losers her in the war and devotes his life, obsessed with the idealized past she symbolizes, scheming to win her back while using his charm and toughness to become a wealthy bootlegger. His inability to give up that dream not only freezes him in the past but make it impossible for even Daisy to meet its recalled perfection. The book carries a distinct existentialist sensibility that makes it relevant today, especially when the current time in America is so much like the greed-driven days of the 1920s when inequality was at record levels and led to the Great Depression.

[tommymooney]

never watched mad men, but thanks for the heads-up for the link to Gatsby. Interesting. There is a whole rich seam it seems of East Coast writing about the perils of believing in capitalism/money/work too much.

Ever read the Herman Melville short story Bartleby, the Scrivener? For me that is also in that tradition.

[Billy Whiz]

It's even more relevant to today than it was when I first read it. For all those phoney party guests who barely know who Gatsby is, read the hundreds of Facebook "friends" that people have, who aren't really friends at all. For Gatsby's shallow, amoral social milieu, read today's vacuous celebrity culture where nonentities are adulated merely for being famous.

[murf]

Don't any of you live in the 21st century?!

I loved Hemingway, Steinbeck and Robertson Davis (is he a Canadian Pouzar?) but they were as historic as I ever wanted to go.

I don't have as much time to read these days so can't keep up with the new releases I fancy let alone going back in time.

I am reasonably happy to watch a Dickens adaptation on TV with Mrs m these days but would never stretch to something like the Brontes!

Back to modern books..... I had high hopes for the latest John Irving. It was initially quite Garpesque but it went downhill, not just because of the subject matter - or the assumption I knew Ibsen and Shakespeare inside out!

[Billy Whiz]

Would that be the same John Irving who wrote his masterpiece in 1978? Not exactly 21st century

The last book I read was Rose Tremain's Music and Silence, which I said was in my Top Five of all time, and was published in 2008. So not guilty, your honour.

[murf]

Would that be the same John Irving who wrote his masterpiece in 1978? Not exactly 21st century .

He was first published in the late 60s I think and still churning them out at his usual rate of one every four or five years!

At his best from the mid/late 70s (was Garp that the 78?) through the 80s. Owen Meany was his true masterpiece IMO - late 80s??.

[Pouzar]

Great comments on the GG by Billy and TommyMooney. Totally agree with TM's comments on Melville's terrific short story, Bartelby, which has received a revival of critical attention in recent years. I read it about 6 months ago and believe it is the first powerful literary critique of the ruthlessness and shallowness if Wall Street exploitation. It can also be seen as both a comic and deadly serious foreshadowing of Occupy Wall Street. Bartelby's oft-repeated ''I would prefer not to,'' will stick in my head forever. Highly, highly recommended.

[workie-ticket]

Just finished reading "Arthur and George" by Julian Sands. The Arthur in the title refers to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, and it's a semi-fictitious but well-researched story based on real events. Essentially a character study of the two men in the title, it also contains elements of a crime mystery, a love story and a battle against a travesty of justice. Without giving too much away, fans of Sherlock Holmes will particularly enjoy the third quarter of the book! all in all, an engrossing and enjoyable read.

[fancy dan]

Just finished reading "Arthur and George" by Julian Sands. The Arthur in the title refers to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, and it's a semi-fictitious but well-researched story based on real events. Essentially a character study of the two men in the title, it also contains elements of a crime mystery, a love story and a battle against a travesty of justice. Without giving too much away, fans of Sherlock Holmes will particularly enjoy the third quarter of the book! all in all, an engrossing and enjoyable read.

That's funny, I've just finished reading the same book! Very good summary, this is a really good read.

[Achiles74]

Bernard Cornwell has a new book out next month "1356"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/1356-Bernard-Co ... 929&sr=1-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also the great Lee Child has "A wanted man" out end of August

[blahblah]

Venus in Furs is pants after the first third, which is quite interesting.

Tarzan is shocking, and shows how bad we were with Race and class attitudes, which makes it an almost compulsive read.

[WilBert]

typing in some of my favourite authors,".

Deserves a bump.

[murf]

Bernard Cornwell has a new book out next month "1356"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/1356-Bernard-Co ... 929&sr=1-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thomas of Hookton is back

9 years since the last book in the 'series'. Thought he was focussing on Uhtred these days.