COVID - 19

[bluenosey]

Bluster, bluster, tousle hair, vaccine vaccine and people fall for it every time, and with no credible opposition party they don't even get held to account.

Sir Keir has run rings around Boris at times.

As with a lot of opposition leaders, he performs well in Parliament but it hasn’t got through to voters yet. It’s a thankless task, trying to get the Labour Party into shape, and it might just be a case of who is the “lucky” leader at the point when the Tories implode.

Labour do need some cast iron policies which are missing at the moment. Pointless opposing for the sake of opposing.

[blahblah]

Anybody see the queues at midnight on sunday to get into nightclubs?

Showed them on my local TV in Newcastle. The North East now has 9 of the top 10 areas of the country for Covid infection rates.

We are doomed for months more of this because of these morons and the rules that permit them.

I do disagree on this. If there wasn't a place for young people to go, they would be drawn to illegal underground events, unlicensed and unmanaged. I'd rather the clubs were open with this in mind. They've been locked up for 17 odd months, time to have a small slice of freedom.

So why no COVID Passport requirement?

It seems designed to create a new peak, and therefore more deaths.

[forestfan]

They’ll all have caught it within a couple of weeks anyway, the crowd who indulge in that sort of behaviour. Though it will be a test of how easy it is to get reinfected I suppose, with or without new strains.

Another two doublings as widely predicted would mean 1 in 20 have it at any given time, surely that’s not sustainable for long?

[forestfan]

Bluster, bluster, tousle hair, vaccine vaccine and people fall for it every time, and with no credible opposition party they don't even get held to account.

Sir Keir has run rings around Boris at times.

As with a lot of opposition leaders, he performs well in Parliament but it hasn’t got through to voters yet. It’s a thankless task, trying to get the Labour Party into shape, and it might just be a case of who is the “lucky” leader at the point when the Tories implode.

Labour do need some cast iron policies which are missing at the moment. Pointless opposing for the sake of opposing.

You can’t really come up with a lot of cast iron policies until there’s a General Election on the horizon. You’d expect at least a general direction of travel, but it’s so difficult at the moment to know who to target. Rebuild the red wall or knock down the blue one (which might be more likely to turn yellow anyway)? Tell those who voted for Brexit that you’re committed to making it work, or throw the former remainers a few scraps in terms of reversing its worst effects? Fight the culture war, or step onto Tory turf on immigration etc.? It’s like one of those puzzles where you switch one of the lights on and two go off at the same time…

[unc.si.]

Bluster, bluster, tousle hair, vaccine vaccine and people fall for it every time, and with no credible opposition party they don't even get held to account.

Sir Keir has run rings around Boris at times.

to absolutely zero effect because people generally prefer a nice slogan to a fact based reasoned argument these days.

Boris can still play the vaccine card, which at the moment seems to give him a free pass.

Quite ironic really that he can use something which in truth owes very little to the current administration (albeit BEIS did pull their fingers out and clear away some of the obstacles to moving quickly), as a get out of jail free card. I guess thats politics though

[murf]

Anybody see the queues at midnight on sunday to get into nightclubs?

Showed them on my local TV in Newcastle. The North East now has 9 of the top 10 areas of the country for Covid infection rates.

We are doomed for months more of this because of these morons and the rules that permit them.

I do disagree on this. If there wasn't a place for young people to go, they would be drawn to illegal underground events, unlicensed and unmanaged. I'd rather the clubs were open with this in mind. They've been locked up for 17 odd months, time to have a small slice of freedom.

Fine..... when they are double jabbed.

It is by and large young people socialising (/not getting jabbed) that is causing this to drag on.

[bluenosey]

Bluster, bluster, tousle hair, vaccine vaccine and people fall for it every time, and with no credible opposition party they don't even get held to account.

Sir Keir has run rings around Boris at times.

to absolutely zero effect because people generally prefer a nice slogan to a fact based reasoned argument these days.

Boris can still play the vaccine card, which at the moment seems to give him a free pass.

Quite ironic really that he can use something which in truth owes very little to the current administration (albeit BEIS did pull their fingers out and clear away some of the obstacles to moving quickly), as a get out of jail free card. I guess thats politics though

He'll claim it. I'd imagine most politicians would, especially if they're on the back foot.

[bluenosey]

Bluster, bluster, tousle hair, vaccine vaccine and people fall for it every time, and with no credible opposition party they don't even get held to account.

Sir Keir has run rings around Boris at times.

As with a lot of opposition leaders, he performs well in Parliament but it hasn’t got through to voters yet. It’s a thankless task, trying to get the Labour Party into shape, and it might just be a case of who is the “lucky” leader at the point when the Tories implode.

Labour do need some cast iron policies which are missing at the moment. Pointless opposing for the sake of opposing.

You can’t really come up with a lot of cast iron policies until there’s a General Election on the horizon. You’d expect at least a general direction of travel, but it’s so difficult at the moment to know who to target. Rebuild the red wall or knock down the blue one (which might be more likely to turn yellow anyway)? Tell those who voted for Brexit that you’re committed to making it work, or throw the former remainers a few scraps in terms of reversing its worst effects? Fight the culture war, or step onto Tory turf on immigration etc.? It’s like one of those puzzles where you switch one of the lights on and two go off at the same time…

True, politics is all arse about face these days. All the old allegiances count for nothing.

[unc.si.]

It’s like one of those puzzles where you switch one of the lights on and two go off at the same time…

I've stayed in hotels like that

[Mav3rick]

Anybody see the queues at midnight on sunday to get into nightclubs?

Showed them on my local TV in Newcastle. The North East now has 9 of the top 10 areas of the country for Covid infection rates.

We are doomed for months more of this because of these morons and the rules that permit them.

I do disagree on this. If there wasn't a place for young people to go, they would be drawn to illegal underground events, unlicensed and unmanaged. I'd rather the clubs were open with this in mind. They've been locked up for 17 odd months, time to have a small slice of freedom.

Fine..... when they are double jabbed.

It is by and large young people socialising (/not getting jabbed) that is causing this to drag on.

My clubbing days are long past but they are arguably the ones who have lost the most (after those and the families of those who lost their lives of course) in all this. Giving up exams, uni experience, their jobs in many cases.

I think I'm still correct in saying that the young aren't that badly affected by Delta, although it seems it a bit worse than the previous strains for them.

The virus will burn through their population quite quickly, so long as they are sensible enough to stay away from granny in the meantime. Everyone else is double dipped, so I expect that's part of the plan anyway - everyone gets some immunity by the end of summer one way or another.

Whether that's a good plan remains to be seen...

[CptPugwash]

It's not a good plan.
Exposing the vast majority of the 18-30 Club exposes far too many of the rest of the population by knock on effect. Even amongst the double dipped, that's too many catching it, too many in hospital, too many deaths, too much long covid, and too many providing a breeding ground for new mutations.

[Striker]

No it's not a good plan. There are now over 400,000 cases of long Covid where the patient has already been suffering for over 12 months, and a lot of those are young.

I wonder why government gives so little publicity to long Covid compared to other effects of Covid when it seems that some people may suffer for years from its effects with a corresponding burden on the NHS when it finally gets around to allocatimg the resources needed. According to an article I read a couple of days ago, although a few Trusts are setting up long Covid units, the national picture is very spotty. Mind you personally I'll have limited sympathy for any young people who develop long Covid after picking up Covid in a night club. Visiting a night club in the next few weeks is madness in my view, even if the clubbers are subsequently considerate enough to avoid vulnerable friends and relatives.

Having seen the poverty and suffering in many third world countries, the short-sightedness, insularity, lack of awareness etc of so many Brits is so depressing.

[forestfan]

I wonder why government gives so little publicity to long Covid compared to other effects of Covid when it seems that some people may suffer for years from its effects with a corresponding burden on the NHS when it finally gets around to allocatimg the resources needed.

Because it’s inconvenient for them, it’s less visible than deaths and overrun hospitals, and they don’t quite believe in it. And it may give them a handy excuse to scrap/cut down the scope of the NHS in a few years’ time.

Maybe they should think of the economy, which is their catch-all reasoning. We could lose 10% of the workforce long-term or permanently if this continues to run riot. And there’s the care costs on top of that.

[forestfan]

Where are the pharmaceutical companies right now, by the way? Where are the second-generation vaccines and the jabs targeting the new strains directly? All talk and no action, as far as I’m aware.

[unc.si.]

Where are the pharmaceutical companies right now, by the way? Where are the second-generation vaccines and the jabs targeting the new strains directly? All talk and no action, as far as I’m aware.

The Oxford team have been working on updated vaccines (based on the same platform but with a slightly different (ie beta variant) Covid DNA so it causes the production of beta variant spike proteins

In clinical trials now. I'm sure others will be working on similar (and there may be others in clinical trials as well)

[forestfan]

You’d think Delta would be a bigger priority despite Beta seemingly being more vaccine evasive, as it seems to be pushing out the others worldwide. Not sure if there’s any reason they can’t cover multiple variants with one jab, though we’ll probably be on Omega by the time it’s rolled out anyway.

[blahblah]

Where are the checks for people traveling from Dublin? I assume they can get from France to Dublin unchecked?

[unc.si.]

You’d think Delta would be a bigger priority despite Beta seemingly being more vaccine evasive, as it seems to be pushing out the others worldwide. Not sure if there’s any reason they can’t cover multiple variants with one jab, though we’ll probably be on Omega by the time it’s rolled out anyway.

Thats almost exactly why they're testing using beta. what they are aiming for is wide spectrum protection and beta is the most different in terms of the spike protein (ie delta isn't an issue for the vaccine but beta is, so try to get protection for any variants that evolve a beta type change in the spike protein)

Because the platform used is already tested and proven, then in theory its not too hard to develop vaccines against new variants if you have the DNA sequence to encode the 'new' spike proteins.

does still have to go through clinical trials though, although can legitimately miss out some of the early safety trials I believe, as it includes all of the same ingredients and would use the same cell lines for manufacture etc, it just contains a slightly different DNA sequence for the virus with the rest of the vaccine being identical to the current one.

[unc.si.]

Where are the checks for people traveling from Dublin? I assume they can get from France to Dublin unchecked?

you planning a holiday to Réunion Island?

[blahblah]

Where are the checks for people traveling from Dublin? I assume they can get from France to Dublin unchecked?

you planning a holiday to Réunion Island?

In theory I'm worried about the infected French avoiding isolation...... but it could be applied to anything from the EU avoiding our tariff collection, which we'll need the give 350m a week to the NHS?

[unc.si.]

I think we've got more to worry about from the infected British than the infected French to be honest

[blahblah]

I think we've got more to worry about from the infected British than the infected French to be honest

Stop being sensible

We didn't vote Brexit to be infected by the French, nor let their stuff in without paying Tariffs

[forestfan]

You’d think Delta would be a bigger priority despite Beta seemingly being more vaccine evasive, as it seems to be pushing out the others worldwide. Not sure if there’s any reason they can’t cover multiple variants with one jab, though we’ll probably be on Omega by the time it’s rolled out anyway.

Thats almost exactly why they're testing using beta. what they are aiming for is wide spectrum protection and beta is the most different in terms of the spike protein (ie delta isn't an issue for the vaccine but beta is, so try to get protection for any variants that evolve a beta type change in the spike protein)

Because the platform used is already tested and proven, then in theory its not too hard to develop vaccines against new variants if you have the DNA sequence to encode the 'new' spike proteins.

Delta does seem to significantly weaken it in terms of preventing symptomatic illness (and presumably spread), even if seemingly not materially so against the more serious outcomes. So to get any sort of herd immunity it feels like we’ll need a Delta (and successors) vaccine.

[blahblah]

Claps don't pay Bills.......

I think the BBC News are using pics from my CO-OP of the empty shelves due to people isolating Less flippantly, more people must be isolating now than before, and I believe Grtr Manchester has more infected people now than before ie previous peaks.

[forestfan]

“Shoppers don’t need to panic buy”. That’s the one statement guaranteed to lead to panic buying.

Given a third of those “pinged” by the app seemingly do get ill, reducing the isolation threshold or exempting certain people will just lead to the virus itself forcing staff shortages. Not sure if they can let this wave “burn out” without collapsing vital services at least at a localised level. But the only alternative that would have a material effect appears another full lockdown which I can’t really believe they would consider, even if the scientists started to argue in favour of it again. The main reasoning being that there wouldn’t be an obvious exit strategy other than upgraded/tailored vaccines which might take until next spring to arrive in sufficient quantity.

[CptPugwash]

Ventured out to my Tesco yesterday.
There was a far higher proportion of staff without masks than customers. I would guess given the ages of the staff involved, that Tesco have made mask wearing optional for double jabbed staff and compulsory for the rest.
What I also found surprising was that for customers and staff alike the blue rinse brigade were by far the most likely not to wear masks.

[murf]

Ventured out to my Tesco yesterday.
There was a far higher proportion of staff without masks than customers. I would guess given the ages of the staff involved, that Tesco have made mask wearing optional for double jabbed staff and compulsory for the rest.
What I also found surprising was that for customers and staff alike the blue rinse brigade were by far the most likely not to wear masks.

Was out briefly yesterday and nearly all shop staff had masks. The shoppers without were mostly the youngish sort of selfish, chav soap you would expect.

[CptPugwash]

Ventured out to my Tesco yesterday.
There was a far higher proportion of staff without masks than customers. I would guess given the ages of the staff involved, that Tesco have made mask wearing optional for double jabbed staff and compulsory for the rest.
What I also found surprising was that for customers and staff alike the blue rinse brigade were by far the most likely not to wear masks.

Was out briefly yesterday and nearly all shop staff had masks. The shoppers without were mostly the youngish sort of selfish, chav soap you would expect.

I was surprised by the amount of mask-less staff, given I'm pretty sure I got a generic e-mail from some Tesco big wig ensuring me staff would continue to wear masks.
There were a few chav shoppers without masks, not as many as I expected, might have been because I went at the height of beer garden time.

[unc.si.]

I asked my daughters whether they knew a lot of people getting pinged and they just said that their mates have pretty much all either deleted the app or turned off contact tracing.

I've got one group of mates that would be horrified at that , but then a group that I go to gigs with have all turned theirs off (they're mainly tradesmen and the attitude is that most people are vaccinated, they've had both jabs and they can't afford to miss work because of having to isolate). There's been a big thing on another whatsapp group of mates who have also mainly turned it off because they don't see why they should have to wait until 16th August to not isolate if they've had 2 jabs

People still mainly seem to be wearing masks though, although that will probably drift off. Not been to any big shops but daughter went to town yesterday and said definitely still more than half wearing masks in the shops

Feels a bit like the genie's out of the bottle now though and its going to be hard to get back in, so lets hope we don't need to

saw some study that said that >90% of people may have antibodies now, although obviously we don't know at what level the virus will still circulate once we hit vaxx targets or what the impact of long Covid is
'

[raoul]

Flying home to London on weekend. Having spent 6 of the past 7 weeks in Dubai, Malta and Barbados where mask wearing is virtually 100% in all public places and enforced rigidly I am concerned to return to the maskless dangers of England.

Wonder when the irreversible stage 4 will get reversed and we get another lockdown...

And what's all this about empty shelves?