la liga and serie a games

Post by **12345678** » 13 Dec 2019, 12:16

it's hard to know whether to bother with these.

i really like the games but feel fanteam have been mucking people about.

i can understand their problem that they want contests to fill.

one week they just dumped the games completely, last week they reduced stake from 20 euros to 10 euros and seemed to get about the same amount of entries.

this week they have reduced it to 5 euros. if you want to play for fun there was a 2 euro game, if you want to play for cash say you enter 6 reams total 30 euros and hope to make 10% its pretty obvious it ain't worth the effort to enter and i won't be doing so, however it has encouraged me to look at draft kings again!

i was going to write a long post about the daftness of tinkering by fanteam mid season with rules, competitions available etc but this one just kind of sums up the chopped logic.

i suspect entries will drop completely from the higher stake players who may now look elsewhere, whether 2 euro players will stub up 5 euros i have no idea.

i hadn't decided whether to play at 10+2 euros but at 5 euros it is patently obviously isn't worth playing unless you have time on your hands!

constant tinkering with games and rules mid season such as safety net just risks alienating customers and bugs in the game in my view.

Post by **12345678** » 13 Dec 2019, 15:19

i see they have now stated the prize remains 1k euros guaranteed, however at the 5 euro stake this somewhat masks the real situation, with so many entries the prizes clearly become adversely diluted. for instance last week with a team that finished 8th/63 i received £47. for 8th/89 currently you receive £43. however assuming the entry doubles or more you may be looking at more like £21.50/180 for 8th which clearly ain't worth the effort.

the trouble with knee jerk reactions in FF is that they will have unpleasant real life effects as TFF found out with what was for many years a perfectly good game.

i wouldn't be wanting to be accused of singling out fanteam and quite happy to acknowledge other DFS type providers have equally appalling help desks and would feel DK has an even worse one!

so these games are still good for fun but in my view pointless for making an effort on.

the weekly monster remains good with excellent pricing and a good payout structure so will play that, even if many of us would like to see the 'safety net' and 'impact' points removed.

Post by **RickyRosa** » 15 Dec 2019, 22:25

They are trying to increase rake generated imop.

Not in the singular games but overall.

They are trying to increase the number of payouts which means the money will probably be recycled into other small stakes games as opposed to being withdrawn by winning players like yourself.
It’s good for their game just not yours.

Just stick to the WM imop, you do well at that.

Post by **12345678** » 16 Dec 2019, 19:52

hi ricky,

yes i agree at present the seasonal (if you are doing vaguely ok) and the WM are the games to play.

however they should be and are playing a long ball game i believe.

personally i like to keep up-to-date with the main leagues, it tends to be useful for other comps along the way. that said it takes time and effort and there is no point for 5 euro stakes.

from their point of view there are clearly huge rewards should they break the market but it is one hell of an investment required to be the new DK! i doubt they are in any trouble financially currently, but reducing risk of small losses in a market is always a worrying sign, besides the risk of losing loyal customers.

Post by **12345678** » 18 Dec 2019, 10:04

a great shame to see another 5 euro game.

that's me done.

i think ricky is right the WM game is great.

disappointing to see the regular chopping and changing of contests and to have invested time in these leagues only to see it rendered pointless (for me) by fanteam mid season changes.

need to see what draft kings are doing in terms of la liga in particular i guess, having let my account lay dormant. we also now see fantasybet struggling to recover so some time to reallocate!

Post by **ronny10** » 18 Dec 2019, 10:22

Maybe the solution is to have a minimum 1st prize in the cheaper games, I'm not sure how many of us enter to win back 2 or 3 times the stake!

I've not played the la liga games but looking at the last 1k game, which I presume was 5 euro to enter, it had a 1st prize of 151 euro, 20th paid 14.

Is there much point in paying below 20th or even 10th with 11th getting 25 euro.

Something like top 10 paid

300
200
100
75
75
50
50
50
50
50

I get some people may like the way its paid out but maybe add a few more games where the payouts are bigger and more cramped in distribution

Post by **12345678** » 18 Dec 2019, 15:18

it's a good question, i've said to the guys at fantasybet for instance that i felt they lost the plot over their prize structure in their 'divisions' game for the very reason that £5 & £7 prizes are pointless. if you are making the effort in my view for a seasonal game you want hope money not a £5.

clearly fanteam have had a prize structure of 15% top entry paid out but maybe found the length of time players were waiting for a winner was too long so changed to 20%, something i don't really have a view on.

i do agree though it does feel like a spider sticking to a web that no longer catches anything at times and payment structure can clearly be altered.

personally i think they have erred by going from 2&20 euros to 5 euros for two entirely different reasons.

the 2 euro creates a fun entry level. the 20 euro was getting a decent entry and provides a sensible prize fund. additionally it gives the chance for 2 players to step up to 20.

as fantasybet have found once you are abandoned it isn't so easy getting your customers back!

getting a draft kings sized slice of the action in my view requires HUGE investment and there is always a concern that an organisation fails and goes west with your cash at some point. whilst my best guess is that isn't going to happen any time soon it is disconcerting to see a game changed apparently to reduce losses.

i think they have found the wrong solution to their problem and i for one will be off at the very least for now.

i think there was a better solution, which i think they have used before. they may not like advertising a game without a headline £1k gaurantee but players are not stupid enough not to see the real position. if they really are getting short of cash or feel they need to make these games pay then reducing the guarantee to 750 euro say then gradually increasing as entry levels met would in my view have been a better way forward. it would have retained reasonable 1/2/3 prizes for an entry of <100.

clearly they can't carry on incurring losses forever but at the same time losing customers is never the best way forward when trying to 'buy' into a market. however at a 10% rake for both 2&20 euro obviously good players don't want to play against good opposition at the identical rake.

i played a bit of limit stakes poker and found there that the best young russian players prefer to multi table play at lower stakes levels rather than playing single table high stakes.

trying to break the daily market isn't easy and i wish fanteam all the best but i think they really have called this one wrongly. many have tried and gone bust or lost money in the uk market, fanteam seem more serious and more strongly backed financially and are not solely uk so they have a realistic chance of bucking the trend of previous failed attempts.

back to your comment i kind of agree with you ronny, clearly fanteam not unreasonably want turnover from as many entrants as possible, if it is really hard to ever get a return then there may be more of a risk of players packing up. it's a really difficult balancing act for them, just my own personal view that they have called this one wrongly.

Post by **12345678** » 18 Dec 2019, 16:03

one quick further thought on this ronny, the DK model is completely different.

basically you open up say 10 entry games (you could amend entry numbers and prizes e.g. 12 entry pay 1/2/3 at say 50%/30%/20%) at different stake levels, prizes 1/2/3 and take a lower rake at the higher stakes.

when one fills you open a new contest at the same stake level

not sure if fanteam would ever consider that type of option.

clearly it reduces the losses of overlays, returns a decent percentage of entry to prizes.

Post by **ronny10** » 18 Dec 2019, 17:10

Interesting, and something that could work well.

I've just noticed today a new format, double or nothing!!!!!, I cant see how this will appeal to many!

Are people easily pleased these days and are just happy to play games like that, the thing is, surely this money will only ever be put back into the game, good for fanteam, but in the long run people will lose money and interest.

For me I've only been interested in the big prizes in any provider I've used, daily games are new to me and no great success to show, ok none!!! And it's a fine line between plodding on with single entries or having a proper go with multiple entries but not something I'm entirely comfortable to do yet!

I'd like to see some more limited entry games just to see if they would appeal to more players like myself rather than knowing whatever you enter you will be up against it from the off.
I like the format of 100k game coming up, so some games like that at a lower entry fee obviously.

Post by **12345678** » 18 Dec 2019, 22:27

at 10% rake you would need to be playing against pretty bad players to get anywhere near break even i reckon.

from the providers point of view it has two great benefits, no overlay and less chance of players getting fed up with long losing runs.

it will appeal to a few as evidenced. i used to play them now and again in 11 player games (from memory) where i was winning regularly on yahoo, unfortunately they banned all uk players without revealing the reason, i always assumed rightly or wrongly they were fed up with the GC as DK were happy with uk players.

i doubt i would ever play them on fanteam with current scoring, especially 5 selection games. i'd probably play 10+ limited contestant games with 11-player selections, but each to their own.

truth is very few win on DK for instance so some might prefer the 'slow death' of their bank in 'double up'

Post by **12345678** » 20 Dec 2019, 20:09

never say never!

tempted back purely by the full round qualifiers

Post by **Fanteam Reps** » 22 Dec 2019, 16:31

Hello everyone, official representative of Fanteam here. We will try to respond to topics on the forum more frequently through this account. We notice this community has a lot of views of different features and policies of Fanteam, and we are happy to discuss the best way forward with the members of the forum. Always looking to improve our product, we absolutely welcome input from the outside. We can not promise we will agree on everything, but in cases of disagreement we will provide arguments for why we lean towards a certain solution. Sometimes we makes mistakes. Hopefully, feedback from the forum can help us maker fewer, and reverse unwise decisions quicker.

Happy to see you are back, 12345678! I will give some answers on the new La Liga and Serie A setup. We have struggled with these two leagues for a long time. Last year we ran a long and very generous promotion in order to pump up the volume to a prize level high enough that it would easier to recruit new players for it. It never seemed to happen, and as the promotion was way too expensive to be sustainable in the long run, we cut it. This year we tried several variants. Generally, we will open tournaments at any buy-in level we believe have a chance of doing well. But this year we had to lower the guarantees several times because these tournaments did not fill up, and the interesting effect is that once we lower it, it will have the consequence that there will be fewer entries in the next tournament (because people react to the lower guarantees). Also, there is an opposite effect that a tournament often will fill almost up because people will see the overlay and add a team or two. So all this means that no matter how low we set the guarantee for La Liga and Serie A, at the previous buy-in levels, it would be hard not losing money on them. This changed however when we went to €5 buy-in. And it did not come as a total shock to us. We did have numbers indicating that there could be a big market for us at the €5 level for these leagues, that's why we chose that change.

For La Liga:
First full round had 200 entries, so we did not lose anything on it. Got 0 in rake as well, but still an improvement from the past. The second full round went over the guarantees, so we got full rake and even more numbers that we needed for it.

For Serie A:
First full round went nicely over the guarantees, and the second one sold out at 50% more than the guarantee!

In addition to this, we recognize that for some customers a €5 buy-in is too low to make it worth their time. We completely acknowledge this argument. But this is almost always going to be the case for a part of our customers, at least in small leagues that can not sustain a wide range of buy-ins. There is no doubt that for a big part of our customer base, €5 actually is close to the limit for what they can afford for an entry. Hopefully, we can add higher buy-in levels for La Liga and Serie A in the future, but I suspect we need more volume for that to happen. Which we are always trying to generate of course, through (amongst other pathways) our marketing department. The good news on this front is that we have increased the total buy-in volume this season compared to same period last year by A LOT, so we are on the right track.

Best regards,
Fanteam Reps.

Post by **RickyRosa** » 24 Dec 2019, 07:55

Have to say it’s refreshing for a site to give so much feedback to the player base, especially the detail in the above.

WP Fanteam

Post by **12345678** » 31 Dec 2019, 08:25

thanks for the reply fanteam reps.

i don't look at fiso often so have only just seen it. your comments are fair enough and it leaves me with more time for epl which is maybe no bad thing and need to get up-to-date with DK in any case for the euros.

only suggestion i would make is a mixed league comp of some sort with the likes of real mad, barca, pool, citeh, juve etc involved.

players like goals and following the big games. you could even select say 6 to 10 games that you think would get most action/interest.

all the best!

Post by **Fanteam Reps** » 02 Jan 2020, 11:05

Thanks, guys!

About the suggestion of 'super team tournament'; we actually like that idea! We have tried with mixed leagues in the past without success, but then we did not have the focus of 'super teams', which I think is a game changer. We believe that it is good to have different types of games, as people will have different preferences as to what they would like to play. A good example is Man of The Match, which never will be able to compete with regular fantasy in terms of volume, but it is still important for us to have. I think such a 'super team tournament' could be similar, perhaps not having a great volume, but big enough to make it interesting. Although nothing has been decided at this point, we will see if we can add this tournament in the future! So thanks for a great idea, 12345678!

Post by **Fanteam Reps** » 02 Jan 2020, 15:56

By the way, it is going to be a big weekend for Serie A and Liga! With no PL round, we have raised the guarantees considerably for these two leagues.

LA LIGA (10 match tournament, starts on Friday)
€20 buy-in, €2,500 gtd
€5 buy-in, €1,500 gtd

SERIE A (5 match tournament, starts on Monday)
€20 buy-in, €3,000 gtd
€5 buy-in, €1,500 gtd
(I think there may be a €130 buy-in, €1,000 gtd as well)

Post by **12345678** » 02 Jan 2020, 16:03

no probs, kind of partially stolen from stuff i have seen playing various games along the way.

your strength is your variable pricing for weekly games in my view.

the choice if you have for example a pool of 12 super teams that are sometimes included and sometimes not is whether any are 'rotation proof' and how you decide to mix and match games with overwhelming favourites and comparatively even games.

whilst i might sound grumpy at times (which i am not lol) and critical (which i am) at the end of the day i try to be constructive and help as it is in both of our interests in so far as i can see that you and your competitions are successful.

all the best for the new year!

p.s. just seen your post in between typing the above bit, not out of date so will happily play @20 and enter the 5 whilst i am at it, but i am done with those leagues once back to a regular 5.

Post by **12345678** » 08 Jan 2020, 10:05

well those games filled up well at 20 euro during eff all cup weekend.

@fanteam reps has it changed your thinking going forward or are we stuck with purely a 5 euro game that i would personally ignore?

Post by **12345678** » 09 Jan 2020, 10:57

well the answer is back to 5 euros after the 20 euros filled nicely last week, that is over and out for me!

Post by **Fanteam Reps** » 10 Jan 2020, 13:04

Hello, 12345678!

Unfortunately, we have to cut back on the Serie A offer when PL is back. We have long experience with Serie A struggling to reach 1,000 for €20 buy-in as long as it has competition from PL. I understand why this makes it not worth your time, and I am sorry for that, but at the moment this is the right call for us. Maybe things will get better for Serie A if we get the word out about DFS. On that subject, we are currently working on our biggest tournament to date, which will be announced next week. As you know we have €250,000 GTD for the season game, so it would mean a game bigger than that...and something that starts shortly (I am not talking about next season's season game here). It could be a game changer, and help Serie A to grow as well. In the mean time, we have Serie A €2,500 for €5 buy-in on Sunday, and I know the buy-in is small, but personally I think this one will have big overlay, so there is at least that.

Post by **CBN** » 10 Jan 2020, 19:20

CL knockout

Post by **Biddles32** » 10 Jan 2020, 22:12

CBN wrote: ↑10 Jan 2020, 19:20 CL knockout

Gotta be

If so I look forward to it.

Post by **admin** » 13 Jan 2020, 20:40

Not CL knockout.

FanTeam have announced a (minimum) 500,000 euro prize fund tournament based on the English Premier League for the last two Gameweeks of the season. They are calling it the Spring Championship of Fantasy Football 2020 or SCOFF 2020 for short. The winner would scoff a minimum 150,000 euros.

Plenty of satellite tournaments (starting now) with small entry fees such as 1 euro to try and qualify for SCOFF 2020, unless you want to pay the 1,100 euros entry fee. The number of entrants will be between 500 to 1,000.

Post by **CBN** » 14 Jan 2020, 08:36

Hopefully there will be a decent sized game for the CL knockout

Post by **12345678** » 23 Jan 2020, 11:50

can fanteam reps clarify the mucking about with 20euro games, are we back this week due purely to eff all cup games not being popular or are you reconsidering their culling?

Post by **Agent Overson** » 23 Jan 2020, 12:17

Maybe they’ll offer you/FISO a few free credits as a lame attempt to shut you up

Post by **12345678** » 23 Jan 2020, 13:54

you know me russ i try to be pretty open, it seems that fanteam reps is taking it the right way. yes it is critical but if they look at the content they can see suggestions would generally lead to their product being improved and or customer communications improved..

Post by **Fanteam Reps** » 24 Jan 2020, 09:57

You are correct, 12345678, in assuming that the €20 buy-in tournaments for Serie A and La Liga have been added this week only because of the PL break. We have solid evidence that our customers wants to increase Serie A and La Liga activity when PL is on a break, which is understandable. I know you want to have it for all gameweeks, but unfortunately nothing has changed in our estimate on the demand for such tournaments. Hopefully, the rapid growth from 2nd half of 2019 will continue, and eventually make it easy for us to offer big Serie A and La Liga tournaments every week.

Post by **12345678** » 25 Jan 2020, 11:28

thanks for taking the time to reply.

we don't have to agree

personally i would lower the guarantee payout (outside of cup weeks) and raise it as that is met.

i agree with your reasoning, just not your solution.

it's easier to grow from a solid base than the ground floor.

but your call obviously.

FISO