Safety Net - Weekly Monster

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Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by admin »

What are thoughts on the 'Safety-net' rule (All non-starting players will be replaced at the beginning of their match, with a player from the same team, same position, and equal or cheaper price. Closest price chosen first)?

If against, any suggestions for an alternative (that could be reasonably coded in by FanTeam)?

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by blahblah »

https://youtu.be/MugWrKFcGS8 Great band and their gig just staring at the drummer is etched...

Back on thread: there's no place in it for FF. Its either a squad game or an 11 game.

I have TAA and if he doesn't play I get Robbo; or I have Kun or Jesus and get the other?

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by robot »

Terrible idea, putting me off playing, game should be all about who you pick not a random who comes in, good for the mass multis as well so will put off the casual entrys.

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by RickyRosa »

Agree with Robot.

I have sunk a fair bit of cash into fanteam and TBH I really like it.

I have already stopped playing the twenty euro WM though as I have already concluded that unless I compete with the multis by entering tons of teams it really is -EV for a casual player but I do plan on a minI assault on the main game next season but if they persist with this rule I will not enter at all as it takes out the skill edge for the smaller portfolio of team managers who have an advantage over the multis by being able to manage a smaller number of teams and of course the multis edge is obvious giving a two tiered possible strategy to adopt.

Though this rule only helps the multis and as previously posted I believe it is designed to help the multis manage a huge portfolio thus removing any edge the smaller portfolio managers had.

I believe this is done to generate more rake but actually see the opposite happening long term as managers move away from playing the weekly.

In the end you will just have the large multis taking turns in winning and sharing the monies each week and will kill their company in the long term as they will struggle to maintain a player base.

This happened with rake back in poker with players playing 20-40 screens a time often -EV in the game but winning utilising rake back. (I remember the old poker stars supernovas)

The reality is they dont need an alternative, they had it perfect.

The 20 percent payout is bad enough (but makes sense from a fanteam perspective) the dumbing down of the game will eventually kill it.

Big u turn required but they can do it.., they just need to say based on feedback etc...

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by llama »

Agree with the others on this one - the safety net is a terrible idea!

I've not entered a game since they have introduced it.

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by Backlash »

Ridiculous idea, it takes the advantage away from the manager who actually researches (I doubt that’s a word!)

This will only increase the multis and drive away the casual regulars.

And while we are recommending; the newly introduced 20% payout needs to be rethought too, go back to the 15% or preferably adjust to 10% payout of entrants.

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by RickyRosa »

Question is whilst they ask for feedback will they actually listen to it?

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by Biddles32 »

RickyRosa wrote:
02 Nov 2019, 20:44
Question is whilst they ask for feedback will they actually listen to it?
I think they will. ‘Admin’ has got a good relationship with them so far and they’ve been more than willing to sort things out when asked by him. I’ve been pleasantly surprised with their format not really knowing anything about them when I joined up. And they’ve been paying out prizes efficiently from what I’ve heard so far, so can’t knock em for that. I actually think their website is pretty decent too - going off an I-phone as that’s all I use for football. Be good if they could do an app for it next year...

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by Agent Overson »

It would be crazy for them to ditch it based on the opinions of six forum members.

I doubt what you guys think matters. This is purely to boost engagement. It will simply come down to the number of people playing pre and post the safety net.

Perhaps they should think about using their time a little more wisely and sort out the horribly slow desktop version first.

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by admin »

So are you all saying remove it and go back to how it was with no alternative solution for when a selected player does not start or play any part in the weekend match?

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by RickyRosa »

Yes Admin.

Exactly what we are saying.

You know what they say...if it isn't broke....

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by blahblah »

admin wrote:
03 Nov 2019, 15:31
So are you all saying remove it and go back to how it was with no alternative solution for when a selected player does not start or play any part in the weekend match?
Seriously, as above, I have Jesus but if he doesn't play I get Kun? Mendy and whoever plays LB?

Great song though 😉

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by ronny10 »

I'm currently entering 1 team a week in the weekly, I was entering 2 up until the rule change.

I'm thinking this will be my last week unless its put back to how it was.

I get it was probably done because it was put forward by multis, and it's perfect for them, but it was already a struggle to finish high up and the slight edge I did have over the multis was the fact that someone having a hundred teams and 80 of them needed changing, it would have been hard for that to be possible.



The only possible solution I can think of is a squad version like the seasonal.

Say pick 13 players, so have 2 subs with a slightly larger budget (extra 10m or so).

If 1 or 2 dont start they get replaced by the sub if they start, if they dont then the first one that comes on the field is your extra player, if that doesn't happen then it's tough shit!


Obviously I would only want 20 free credits for this solution

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by RickyRosa »

Great idea Ronny

So what’s the craic Admin....are they going to change it?

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by admin »

I've raised the above comments with FanTeam and they've provided a response which I've copied below. Constructive comments welcome!

"Hello, dear Fiso Community,

We are sad to hear that you do not like the safety net much. Let us explain why we implemented it and then maybe you can understand our point of view a bit better. It has definitely not been intentionally designed to help the multi-entrants.

Our current goal is to grow the Fanteam userbase. The more players that are active, the bigger the prizepools and the more interesting the tournaments. For a new player, it is very frustrating spending 20€ on a team, which then does not have a chance to win because of some unforeseeable injury at the last moment. We want Fanteam to be fun for everyone and give everyone a fighting chance.

You might argue that it takes the edge away from those who are doing extensive research and can predict the lineups. But that is also not 100% correct. Let us assume that the majority thinks Player X (a forward with the cost of 10 M) will start. However, you are aware that instead of Player X, Player Y ( a forward of the same team, costing only 7 M) will play. So now you can select Player Y and have an edge due to the 3 M saved, which you can spend on other players (whereas the majority would have spent the 10 M even though the safety net meant Player Y went into their team).

Regarding the payout structure - this was also designed for the health of the system and clearly against the 'sharks'. The fact that now 20% of players get "in the money" should increase the chances of a positive turnout for the average player.

Please be aware that we are doing our best to provide a quality game for all our users. While you may feel sometime that our decisions are not perfect, they often have considered many factors. We are always very happy about your feedback here and will continue to work on our product.

Best regards,
Fanteam"

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by ronny10 »

Totally disagree with their example of having an edge etc.

Anyone who knows anything about football will see when a player is undervalued in comparison to others, this is part of picking the original team at whatever point you do so during the week.

I get why they put the safety net in but personally it puts me off the game and it's not a necessary thing to have.

Anyone with a large amount of teams is aided by this and at the end of the day if you dont have the time to manage 1 or 100 teams properly then its probably best you dont enter.

A multi can pick aguero safe in the knowledge if he doesn't start they will automatically get jesus etc.

It's a huge help and is easier for them to justify the value in such large entries especially with so many places being paid out.

Its put me off the game as a small entrant and this will be my last weekend and as the multis clean up I expect more and more users will feel the same and eventually even some of the less successful multis.

Maybe I will be wrong but it's not for me anymore and will stick to the longer games

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by RickyRosa »

It’s the same for me Ron.

Whilst I appreciate it has not been designed specifically to help the multis, more so your average player, the result of the change is that it undeniably helps the multi more.

For the reasons Ronnie points out above.

I understand that your shrewd player would pick player Y and save 3m to be spent elsewhere and the multis would be 3m lighter but the reality is they have covered every conceivable option of a defensive line up picking the obscure defensives for example Bournemouth saving a fortune over your average player who picks the more “likely to keep a clean sheet Man City for example” who go onto concede meaning the multi with his Bournemouth defence is able to spend the monies he has saved picking the cheap defence elsewhere thus negating the 3m saving the shrewd player has saved by picking player Y.

Of course this is the advantage of being a multi but the undeniable fact is that the safety net only serves to increase their edge over the average or indeed above average player.

Fan team wish to increase their player pool but I also think this change will decrease it as your average player will not be a winning player long term because of the multi edge and the shrewd player will in the mid to long term realise as have I that unless I become a multi I am -EV and thus a fish and the only viable option as Ronny points out is not to play at all unless you have money to burn (and then you would be a multi) as in reality the average player or single are in reality dead money.

The only thing I disagree with is that I will be playing the longer games as opposed to the short games as the safety net will be applicable in those games as well.

I get the 20 percent payout as this I agree will increase player pools and generate more rake.

I just think that the safety net will have the opposite effect as for example I would actually advise my bro not to play because of the above......they are just not going to get average players signing up....they need the FISO players to help them grow imop

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by Kaikkipunaselle »

ronny10 wrote:
06 Nov 2019, 15:40
The only possible solution I can think of is a squad version like the seasonal.

Say pick 13 players, so have 2 subs with a slightly larger budget (extra 10m or so).

If 1 or 2 dont start they get replaced by the sub if they start, if they dont then the first one that comes on the field is your extra player, if that doesn't happen then it's tough shit!


Obviously I would only want 20 free credits for this solution
This isn't a new idea as they had this implemented last year already. The problem I have with this one is, the bigger multis, as you call them, have much more advantage imo. They can always pick the cheapest players possible as subs and thus use the maximum value for the playing 11. The occasional no starters in some of their teams don't really matter since their team volume. The safest pick for the 'one team player' in this format is to focus on the 3pm games as you can be certain who will start and who won't, so you can still use the least amount of money for the subs. Maybe if you had separate budgets for the starting 11 and the bench..

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by Agent Overson »

I did say the weekly monster was designed for the benefit of the multis ages ago.

Great to see you finally catch up

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by ronny10 »

I think we new that but the safety net is a step to far. You can accept you are up against it with people entering lots of teams but when they add things to aid it even more then I accept defeat.

@ kaik ,yes they could just pick the cheapest players as subs but that's why I suggested just a small budget increase of 10m so 110m for 13 players. I agree they still have a big advantage as they have lots of teams to cover basis but it takes away the safety net so they wont be getting jesus instead of aguero unless it's done manually.
They can cover both across their teams obviously but it still would mean either having a sub used or manually changing in the teams with the non starter.

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by 12345678 »

i offered them some feedback generally, but they were not interested.

most large games providers are arrogant and think they know what players want, the unhelpful desks are usually useless and they are no exception. fantasybet do try and get it right but have made some bad decisions in my view but on balance i now prefer their games and they do listen and even act on feedback!

just quickly as the 3-player rule was introduced at the same time a comment on that. i really don't like the idea of this, i think the excellent pricing and the -1 penalties for block defences had already mainly solved the issue. it also reduces the entries they receive from me! the issue i have found is that i can bang through a few entries fairly fast if i don't have to worry about 3-limit but with it makes entries extremely fiddly so they lose entries. if you want to put people off picking more than 3-players from a team there is a blindingly obvious way to do it! - just dump the ridiculous 'impact' points that links them for positive or negative points that encourages 'block' selections!

back to the farcical world of auto subs. i'll give you an example of tonights la liga game, from 4 entries here are some daft consequences of the rule change. i've picked the atletico madrid rb arias in 3 teams i think, knowing full well trippier is favourite to play this game at rb - so why do it? well without this nonsense i would have picked felipe as i wanted a cheaper atletico defender. however as i would rather have arias as he is more attacking, i pick a player i don't expect to start as i know i get felipe for the same price if he doesn't! i'll give you another one, as it happens the same price again rather than a fraction shy. i've picked ibai gomes a bit who i DO LIKE but i don't expect him to start! so why pick him you ask? well he is fantastic VFM if he starts in a good team with decent chances of attacking returns, if not d.garcia should start, no great shakes offensively but seems to pick up a few bonuses and a decent sound pick, so you get him if you don't get the ibai gomes jackpot! i've still picked a player that the new system puts me off, lee of valencia who i think will probably start due to injuries and is extremely cheap for an offensive valencia player! the problem with his price is that if i get it wrong i am kind of risking a zero as there is no one cheaper to replace him with, that said the type of player to come on as a sub and freshen things up. so basically the bargains i like to dig out are far more risky picks now as others will have auto subs and you risk scoring a zero if you guess wrongly on starting.

so in conclusion i think 1) it over complicates the game if you are trying to play it well. 2) it drives you towards daft selections you don't even expect to start at times or bargains where you know a safety net is at hand. this isn't fantasy footy it is sheer stupidity! 3) it puts you off picking speculative bargains you fancy as everyone else has a safety net on mid pick selections! 4) even casual players won't like not having 'their' players, just random selections brought in by a computerised program! there is of course a very simple solution if you want a safety net, allow us to have a subs bench, we can then decide whether to spend all the cash on premium players and risk 'no shows' or whether to have a solid bench to cover any unlucky 'no shows' or any risky selections we might fancy. the point is they are 'our players' not some randomly assigned computer picks.

i really think they have lost the plot over this and made a truly crass decision without thinking it through properly. if you want subs available fine - let us pick them with a bench! if you don't want team blocks don't encourage it by giving plus or negative points linked to teams for 'impact'. if you complicate it in the way you have done it takes longer to put together entries, so anyone like me with a variety of fantasy interests reduces their entries sharply (the specialist will maybe bang in even more then!) whilst single players might love that it risks reducing prize funds and for them the profitability of their business!

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by Fanteam_support »

Hello Fiso Community,

We at Fanteam thought it would be best to reach out here directly to you. After receiving the forwarded feedback from Chris, this topic was brought up internally and is currently being discussed. We can assure you that we do listen and that we try our best to create a game, which is enjoyed by everyone.

Our plan is now to use the international break and take some time to consider your feedback more extensively. As a show of gratitude for the feedback (and also to say sorry that you do not like the current safety net), we want to give all members in this forum a 20€ ticket for todays Weekly Monster. Just write your Fanteam username here (or send it to us in a private message) and we are happy to assign you a ticket. If you read this too late, we will award it for the next GW.

Best regards,
Fanteam

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by Biddles32 »

Agent Overson wrote:
08 Nov 2019, 08:43
I did say the weekly monster was designed for the benefit of the multis ages ago.

Great to see you finally catch up Image
You still not like Fanteam mate? 😉

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by Agent Overson »

Recent comments from other posters would suggest I’m not the only one

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by CBN »

A free ticket? Sounds great - give me one for the next GW 👍

Username is CBN

Cheers 💪

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by CBN »

I don’t feel that strongly about safety net but I do feel strongly about prize money. My post from the other thread:
CBN wrote:
25 Oct 2019, 23:00
Yeah, strange one. I ain’t in it to come 400th and win 67 pence.

€10k first prize
€5k second prize
Then scale the rest down to 100th

Simple, and gets you a big headline prize.

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by ronny10 »

CBN wrote:
09 Nov 2019, 14:53
A free ticket? Sounds great - give me one for the next GW 👍

Username is CBN

Cheers 💪
Cheers, Ronny10 on fanteam also.

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by 12345678 »

Fanteam_support wrote:
09 Nov 2019, 11:27
Hello Fiso Community,

We at Fanteam thought it would be best to reach out here directly to you. After receiving the forwarded feedback from Chris, this topic was brought up internally and is currently being discussed. We can assure you that we do listen and that we try our best to create a game, which is enjoyed by everyone.

Our plan is now to use the international break and take some time to consider your feedback more extensively. As a show of gratitude for the feedback (and also to say sorry that you do not like the current safety net), we want to give all members in this forum a 20€ ticket for todays Weekly Monster. Just write your Fanteam username here (or send it to us in a private message) and we are happy to assign you a ticket. If you read this too late, we will award it for the next GW.

Best regards,
Fanteam
Hi

i can assure you that not only do you not listen but you fail to send replies and clarifications when promised.

i can understand you wishing to do a PR exercise here and of course there is no reason why you cannot change.

I have seen GFM wreck the tff game (with or without primary influence from the telegraph - which they fail to disclose) in the most crass manner through seemingly reacting to questionnaires and not thinking it through.

If you wish to improve your game rather than trashing it i think it is important that you think through potential changes very carefully and beta test them yourselves to see the effect of changes.

what appears to have happened here is that you have listened to a few complaints and brought in the safety net hastily without thinking it through and beta testing it properly.

if you act in haste you sometimes end up repenting at your leisure.

going forward i would be very very careful of tinkering without obtaining feedback and beta testing properly first, during the close season is obviously the period that gives you most time and i doubt that an international break is sufficient.

just personally i hate games that change their rules mid season, my experience of playing games is that rarely ends well.

i have heard a few issues with being paid too, which i am hoping is a paypal problem.

whilst i might sound aggressive and rude it is just a critique of what has happened and i wish you every good fortune, but things clearly need to change, which obviously they can.

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by 7lb claimer »

I think they're doing great. I love their games.

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Re: Safety Net - Weekly Monster

Post by ronny10 »

7lb claimer wrote:
09 Nov 2019, 15:30
I think they're doing great. I love their games.
On the whole I agree but as Andy points out most changes seem to be done in haste possibly on the back of a few people suggesting ideas etc that clearly to me benefit the multis rather than the casual player.

I'd be interested to know the amount of individual users that play the weekly monster and what percentage teams are entered by multis.

I cant be bothered to count myself :lol:

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