To see less ads Register or Login ----- Daily Fantasy Sports games 18+

Doping in sport

A forum for discussion on Sports (apart from Football) matters not involving fantasy issues.
User avatar
murf
FISO Viscount
Posts: 109448
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: here
FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
Contact:

Re: Doping in sport

Post by murf »

unc.si. wrote:I see another until recently unknown Kenyan has broken the Marathon world record. Very impressive.
Define 'recently'.

He won the Tokyo and Boston marathons last year.

EDIT - Just found an article on him. Didn't start training professionally til he was 26! 30 now so not much history that isn't recent.

http://www.channel4.com/news/dennis-kim ... -kenya-how" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
unc.si.
FISO Knight
Posts: 11775
Joined: 11 Oct 2010, 14:08
Location: Off to buy Loctite
FS Record: 'Loser' by Beck

Re: Doping in sport

Post by unc.si. »

Whoever wrote that article's got a great sense of humour :D

User avatar
murf
FISO Viscount
Posts: 109448
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: here
FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
Contact:

Re: Doping in sport

Post by murf »

The UCI want to revoke Astana's licence (and about time too). No defending champion Nibali at the TdF????

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/31657795" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
unc.si.
FISO Knight
Posts: 11775
Joined: 11 Oct 2010, 14:08
Location: Off to buy Loctite
FS Record: 'Loser' by Beck

Re: Doping in sport

Post by unc.si. »

Good that the UCI have decided to try and do something, but to be honest when you look round at other sports you wonder why they're bothering.

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Viscount
Posts: 108499
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.

Re: Doping in sport

Post by blahblah »

unc.si. wrote:Good that the UCI have decided to try and do something, but to be honest when you look round at other sports you wonder why they're bothering.
Indeed. while Astana aren't exactly good: how would a 5 year ban for Barca pumping shite into Messi go down?

There is also a difference between cyclists being considered individuals and having to perform versus clubs pumping drugs into individuals?

User avatar
Moist von Lipwig
FISO Knight
Posts: 18227
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 16:08
Location: The Eyrie
FS Record: FPL Spring 16 Winner 2010-11. Murfs F1 Predictions 2012 Winner. Pick Quick 2012-13 Winner. SP4s Predictions League A & Champions League

Re: Doping in sport

Post by Moist von Lipwig »

Potentially massive news this morning, a Spanish Judge has surprised everyone and ordered all the 200+ blood bags belonging to about 35 athletes in the Operation Puerto doping case are to be handed over to WADA rather than destroyed in a cover up. Hopefully leading to identities being revealed but unlikely to be much in the way of sanctions due to a statute of limitations and the timespan this has dragged on meaning many of them will have retired.

Claimed clients of Fuentes were Barca/Real players and Tennis players of the early to mid 2000 era.

User avatar
unc.si.
FISO Knight
Posts: 11775
Joined: 11 Oct 2010, 14:08
Location: Off to buy Loctite
FS Record: 'Loser' by Beck

Re: Doping in sport

Post by unc.si. »

Good that they've finally been released, but suspect that no new names will ever come out. Too much at stake.

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 36399
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Between Westeros and Nova Scotia
FS Record: FISODAS Champion Season 34!

Re: Doping in sport

Post by forestfan »

Surely they can strip people of titles retrospectively as per Armstrong, and perhaps even relegate clubs if systematic doping is uncovered?

User avatar
unc.si.
FISO Knight
Posts: 11775
Joined: 11 Oct 2010, 14:08
Location: Off to buy Loctite
FS Record: 'Loser' by Beck

Re: Doping in sport

Post by unc.si. »

Footballers and Tennis players probably wouldn't need blood bags even if they were using Dr Fuentes.
There wasn't any blood testing then in those sports so they could just use epo without having to go through the whole transfusion rigmarole.

Blood bags will just be cyclists and runners. Doubt if it'll be worth anyone really following it up tbh.

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Viscount
Posts: 108499
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.

Re: Doping in sport

Post by blahblah »

So Brad had crazy injections due to "asthma" just before some big races. Don't worry as Sky are British and clean 8-)

Unfortunately the "expertise" and suspicion is in\on Cycling when Nadal, Messi and freak only knows how many other footballers, tennis and rugby players are above suspicion. Not to mention boxers, weightlifters, swimmers etc aren't even suspected.

For those that think footballers are clean: Adam Baxter lost the first GB alpine skiing medal, either ever or for decades, due to using a dodgy Vic thing - well go and youtube Arsenal's "Invincibles" for how much Vic was on their shirts......

User avatar
murf
FISO Viscount
Posts: 109448
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: here
FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
Contact:

Re: Doping in sport

Post by murf »

Nadal had his TUEs leaked as well....

Talking of retrospectively stripping titles. One weightlifting class from the Olympics (can't remember which, sorry) found that 6 of the top 7, inc all medalists were cheating with drugs so now 9th place is going to get the bronze. Only thing is.... he is currently banned for drugs offences...
Last edited by murf on 24 Sep 2016, 22:30, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Viscount
Posts: 108499
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.

Re: Doping in sport

Post by blahblah »

murf wrote:Nadal had his TUEs leaked as well....
But he never (OK maybe rarely) got tested to need TUE's?

His win rate when returning from an bad knee was even more impressive than Horner's....

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Viscount
Posts: 108499
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.

Re: Doping in sport

Post by blahblah »

Froome and his Asthma..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/42335916.

It should be a 4 Month Ban, minimum, following the Yates precedent - so Nibali wins?

User avatar
unc.si.
FISO Knight
Posts: 11775
Joined: 11 Oct 2010, 14:08
Location: Off to buy Loctite
FS Record: 'Loser' by Beck

Re: Doping in sport

Post by unc.si. »

Bit odd that Sky miscalculated so badly. If he'd really needed that much he could have got a TUE so someones in the Sky medical team probably cocked up somewhere (unlikely given the budget for medical staff that they have) or there was some other reason that the substance wasn't clearing as fast as they expected. I mean he was 100% guaranteed to get tested as the leader of the race.

Guess Froome will go Mea Culpa and get the Sky lawyers to trawl through every Salbutomol case going and find a medical reason why the elevated levels were accidental so that he only gets a few months ban. Its only the Vuelta so take the hit and move on.

Not that he would have won anyway but thats put the final nail in the coffin for SPOTY, which I'm sure is probably his biggest concern at the moment :D

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Viscount
Posts: 108499
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.

Re: Doping in sport

Post by blahblah »

unc.si. wrote: 13 Dec 2017, 10:01 someones in the Sky medical team probably cocked up somewhere (unlikely given the budget for medical staff that they have)
We loop back to Brad's "package" :lol:
unc.si. wrote: 13 Dec 2017, 10:01 I mean he was 100% guaranteed to get tested as the leader of the race.
Yep, quite a shock that.

Look's like Sky's Cleaner than Clean image is decidedly (Jess) varnished now.

If Rupe takes the cash away they would be royally screwed?

User avatar
murf
FISO Viscount
Posts: 109448
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: here
FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
Contact:

Re: Doping in sport

Post by murf »

He is legally allowed to go over the limit if taking a permitted high dose, which he claims he was. So, in theory, it is all fine and no rules have necessarily been broken.

Bit weird that one day was so high and the others weren't though....

(Not sure of exact numbers but reports claiming 2000 whatevers when limit was 1000. Again a bit dodgy (for tests) if it was that exact a number)

User avatar
Moist von Lipwig
FISO Knight
Posts: 18227
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 16:08
Location: The Eyrie
FS Record: FPL Spring 16 Winner 2010-11. Murfs F1 Predictions 2012 Winner. Pick Quick 2012-13 Winner. SP4s Predictions League A & Champions League

Re: Doping in sport

Post by Moist von Lipwig »

If anyone's interested, which I'm sure they're not...

A standard inhaler delivers 100 micrograms per actuation, common use is 2 actuations twice a day, 12 hours apart alongside a non steroid preventative inhaler. Then used as and when during the day, if your as and when is more than twice a day, your preventative is off.

100 micrograms is 100,000 nanograms so it's likely anyone is taking 600k nano of salbutamol as standard per day.

Absorption levels vary massively depending on delivery method (8% gets directly to your lungs with normal use, rising to 40% if you use a volumetric spacer with am inhaler, it'll be different again with tablets) so I'm wondering if the delivery method changed rather/also than the amount taken, leading to a spike for a single test.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


User avatar
Moist von Lipwig
FISO Knight
Posts: 18227
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 16:08
Location: The Eyrie
FS Record: FPL Spring 16 Winner 2010-11. Murfs F1 Predictions 2012 Winner. Pick Quick 2012-13 Winner. SP4s Predictions League A & Champions League

Re: Doping in sport

Post by Moist von Lipwig »

And Diego Ulissi got a 9 month ban for exactly this (1900 nano) at the 2014 Giro, he declared 2 puffs a day. If you have a TUE you can have a level of 1600.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk



User avatar
blahblah
FISO Viscount
Posts: 108499
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.

Re: Doping in sport

Post by blahblah »

Would it be 9 months from the Decision, or from when he got caught out?

User avatar
Moist von Lipwig
FISO Knight
Posts: 18227
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 16:08
Location: The Eyrie
FS Record: FPL Spring 16 Winner 2010-11. Murfs F1 Predictions 2012 Winner. Pick Quick 2012-13 Winner. SP4s Predictions League A & Champions League

Re: Doping in sport

Post by Moist von Lipwig »

blahblah wrote:Would it be 9 months from the Decision, or from when he got caught out?
Ulissi offence was in May 2014, verdict was Jan 2015, with a backdated ban from June 2014 to March 2015. Ban took into account the days he could not race anyway which were used as the gap between offence and start of ban.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


User avatar
murf
FISO Viscount
Posts: 109448
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: here
FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
Contact:

Re: Doping in sport

Post by murf »

When was Froome's result found? Months since the Vuelta and I thought they processed results within days on the Tours these days.

User avatar
Moist von Lipwig
FISO Knight
Posts: 18227
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 16:08
Location: The Eyrie
FS Record: FPL Spring 16 Winner 2010-11. Murfs F1 Predictions 2012 Winner. Pick Quick 2012-13 Winner. SP4s Predictions League A & Champions League

Re: Doping in sport

Post by Moist von Lipwig »

murf wrote:When was Froome's result found? Months since the Vuelta and I thought they processed results within days on the Tours these days.
Apparently leaked from 3 different sources over the last couple of months, been sat on whilst the lawyers are consulted.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


User avatar
blahblah
FISO Viscount
Posts: 108499
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.

Re: Doping in sport

Post by blahblah »

The test took place September 7 following stage 18 of the Vuelta, a race which Froome won overall......

The WADA threshold for Salbutamol is 1,000ng/ml. According to the UCI, Team Sky was notified of the finding on September 20, the day he finished third in the elite men’s time trial at the UCI World Championships in Bergen.

News of the case emerged early on Wednesday morning in Europe after a joint investigation by The Guardian in Britain and Le Monde in France.


From: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris-f ... albutamol/

User avatar
Tacalabala
FISO Knight
Posts: 19010
Joined: 07 Sep 2008, 01:03

Re: Doping in sport

Post by Tacalabala »

It seems like a massive balls up rather than a deliberate violation. Why are Sky so poor at this?

He will have to serve the ban, no question.

User avatar
murf
FISO Viscount
Posts: 109448
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: here
FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
Contact:

Re: Doping in sport

Post by murf »

Moist von Lipwig wrote: 13 Dec 2017, 11:56 If anyone's interested, which I'm sure they're not...

A standard inhaler delivers 100 micrograms per actuation, common use is 2 actuations twice a day, 12 hours apart alongside a non steroid preventative inhaler. Then used as and when during the day, if your as and when is more than twice a day, your preventative is off.

100 micrograms is 100,000 nanograms so it's likely anyone is taking 600k nano of salbutamol as standard per day.

Absorption levels vary massively depending on delivery method (8% gets directly to your lungs with normal use, rising to 40% if you use a volumetric spacer with am inhaler, it'll be different again with tablets) so I'm wondering if the delivery method changed rather/also than the amount taken, leading to a spike for a single test.
From the Cycling news link you can take 1600microgrammes per 24 hours (two doses of 800) without a TUE. Froome tested positive for 2000ng (or 2 micro-g) per ml so that would only mean a 1.25% absorption rate per ml . I could try and work that out into litres of blood in the body (8 pints is about 4500ml) but that is clearly wrong and would imply a huge dosage but it may stay in your blood for days etc so is taking it too far for a non-professional specialist!

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Viscount
Posts: 108499
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.

Re: Doping in sport

Post by blahblah »

The double talk about Brad really is something :lol:

The bottom line is that Sky got a TUE for an injection for asthma for something David Millar called "rocket fuel" or similar.

He believes it was legitimate as prescribed by "doctors". Those who disagree tend to think that the "doctor" may not have been neutral...

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Viscount
Posts: 108499
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.

Re: Doping in sport

Post by blahblah »

Rob Hales(?) is really interesting on R5's cycling thing...... (I think it is a podcast)

Edit: Bespoke, and yes to Rob .

Cav would be interesting to hear on this?

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 36399
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Between Westeros and Nova Scotia
FS Record: FISODAS Champion Season 34!

Re: Doping in sport

Post by forestfan »

It’s quite possible nobody has ever won the Tour de France or similar events totally “clean”, although the substances and methods of choice have evolved over the years. So either they let it be a free for all with cyclists killing themselves with cocktails of drugs, or they continue fighting it so every winner is eventually discredited. Neither is an appealing option, so maybe the days of Grand Tours are numbered.

The question you have to ask now is, was British track cycling clean, in which case they made a monumental mistake getting involved in the minefield of the road racing scene, or whether their “marginal gains” always crossed the line of ethics and sporting integrity, in which case every medal we’ve won in the lottery funding era is probably tainted.

Will Sky now withdraw their sponsorship I wonder, or is the Murdoch organisation already so low in reputational terms that there really is no such thing as bad publicity, in which case the two may be perfect partners for years to come...

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Viscount
Posts: 108499
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.

Re: Doping in sport

Post by blahblah »

Hmm to TdF, I do believe Lemond, and not going through the winners list now no comment on the TdF, and unc is far wiser than I am on that.

Indeed to the Track team and being "clean", I'm sure most other countries are ready to pounce with cheating claims, as they have for a few Olympics? Sutton has said that Brad and the doc need to "come clean"? He seemed to be alluding to the "it stinks, but it was in the rules" that many including David Millar ("it was like rocket fuel") have claimed.

Sky and sponsorship could be interesting. I didn't follow the sale\swap\takeover. Is it relevant nowadays to Rupes? (but one of Rupes sons is a geek and wants to win P-R.)

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Viscount
Posts: 108499
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.

Re: Doping in sport

Post by blahblah »

So a few months before the French Open Nadal is out for 6 weeks due to breathing issues - or maybe it is more oxygen from lungs to blood, rather then into lungs?

Anyhow, I'm expecting a "miraculous" return and a victory at Rolland Garros 👏👏👏👏👏👏

He could be worth investing a few blah pennies in a few weeks 🥳🥳🥳🥳

View Latest: 1 Day View Your posts
Post Reply

Return to “Sports Talk & Events (excluding Football)”