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Rugby discussion

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forestfan
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Re: Rugby discussion

Post by forestfan » 25 Feb 2019, 22:35

unc.si. wrote:
25 Feb 2019, 10:47
Maldini wrote:
17 Sep 2017, 08:48
Can the title be altered to Rugby Union discussion?

Very misleading.


I came on to talk about proper rugby and the thread is about a load of public schoolboys kicking the ball and playing 'all pile on' for eighty minutes. ;)
Was at the DW yesterday (Wigan - Hull) and saw the first 'Golden point' win in Superleague history. 22-22 at full time. Unfortunately Hull got a drop kick within the first minute of extra time and Wigans last 20 minute comeback was for nothing.

Not sure whether I like it or not - I'd have liked it a lot more if it was Wigan getting the golden point :D

Nice day out in the sunshine. Was sat a few seats away from Andy Gregory and also got a big cheer for my crowd catch from a penalty kick to touch :D
You’re welcome to have a thread about “five tackles then kick it away and wait for someone to make a mistake”-ball... this one’s about rugby :wink:

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unc.si.
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Re: Rugby discussion

Post by unc.si. » 26 Feb 2019, 11:17

forestfan wrote:
25 Feb 2019, 22:35
unc.si. wrote:
25 Feb 2019, 10:47
Maldini wrote:
17 Sep 2017, 08:48
Can the title be altered to Rugby Union discussion?

Very misleading.


I came on to talk about proper rugby and the thread is about a load of public schoolboys kicking the ball and playing 'all pile on' for eighty minutes. ;)
Was at the DW yesterday (Wigan - Hull) and saw the first 'Golden point' win in Superleague history. 22-22 at full time. Unfortunately Hull got a drop kick within the first minute of extra time and Wigans last 20 minute comeback was for nothing.

Not sure whether I like it or not - I'd have liked it a lot more if it was Wigan getting the golden point :D

Nice day out in the sunshine. Was sat a few seats away from Andy Gregory and also got a big cheer for my crowd catch from a penalty kick to touch :D
You’re welcome to have a thread about “five tackles then kick it away and wait for someone to make a mistake”-ball... this one’s about rugby :wink:
We could have one thread about League and all the exciting bits of Union (the tries, the running lines, offloads, big hits in midfield, clever chips behind the defence) and one for the fat boys to stroke their beards and talk about scrum technique and rucking :D

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Re: Rugby discussion

Post by liquidfootball2 » 26 Feb 2019, 13:24

Or line-outs,?

Both games at the very top level can be outstanding spectacles and sport at it's very best. They both have their merits and supporters, no idea why the enmity between supporters of either is so clung to, as if somehow a tradition not to be lost, in the modern era.

Both are now very much full time and professional at the higher levels. I realise the long tradition and original schism that caused it, with the professional code largely adopted in the north breaking from the so called 'gentleman amateurs from the public schools', and there is still an element of this carried forward, but with the amount of players now having played both codes, surely now must be the time to consign such bad feeling to history.

This isn't meant at the jokes on here, just so many (again not really on here) seem blinkered to any merits in the alternative code.

* I would change this thread to Rugby Union and have a separate one for League.

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Rugby discussion

Post by Maldini » 26 Feb 2019, 13:40

It was definitely a joke on my part.

Although I prefer League, since the introduction of the bonus point system, Union is much more expansive and there’s a lot more skill on show.

Still haven’t a clue what’s going on with the scrums, rucks and mauls but I’m not alone because none of the players seem to know either given the amount of head shaking when a penalty is awarded.

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Re: Rugby discussion

Post by unc.si. » 26 Feb 2019, 17:09

I'm not sure there's really that much bad feeling in truth. Some union fans are a bit condescending of league and some league fans a bit resentful of the amount of money put into union - maybe.

Most people that I know that are into Rugby like both codes, although like in any walk of life there are a few nobends on both sides of the divide. I reckon there's a lot more hatred between Wigan and Saints (or Wigan and Latics) fans than between League and union :D League's more tribal - more like football. There's a corner of South West Lancashire where League is as much of a religion as Union is in South Wales.

I grew up playing Union to a reasonable standard (invited to England trials at U19 but got a bad injury and couldn't go - wouldn't have got in to be honest but would have been a good experience), but have roots in Lancashire and followed the great Wigan team of the 1980's and 1990's. League used to be much better to watch IMO, but much closer since Union went professional. League is just more straightforward entertainment. Anyone can enjoy watching it. I think with Union you either have to have played or spent a fair bit of time watching to really understand whats going on half the time, and as Maldini said I don't think many people really know whats going on in the rucks, mauls and scrums, including most of the players. I genuinely enjoy both codes, but for different reasons.

At the end of the day, a good game in either code is fantastic to watch, and a bad game in either can be dire.

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Re: Rugby discussion

Post by liquidfootball2 » 26 Feb 2019, 17:46

unc.si. wrote:I'm not sure there's really that much bad feeling in truth. Some union fans are a bit condescending of league and some league fans a bit resentful of the amount of money put into union - maybe.

Most people that I know that are into Rugby like both codes, although like in any walk of life there are a few nobends on both sides of the divide. I reckon there's a lot more hatred between Wigan and Saints (or Wigan and Latics) fans than between League and union :D League's more tribal - more like football. There's a corner of South West Lancashire where League is as much of a religion as Union is in South Wales.

I grew up playing Union to a reasonable standard (invited to England trials at U19 but got a bad injury and couldn't go - wouldn't have got in to be honest but would have been a good experience), but have roots in Lancashire and followed the great Wigan team of the 1980's and 1990's. League used to be much better to watch IMO, but much closer since Union went professional. League is just more straightforward entertainment. Anyone can enjoy watching it. I think with Union you either have to have played or spent a fair bit of time watching to really understand whats going on half the time, and as Maldini said I don't think many people really know whats going on in the rucks, mauls and scrums, including most of the players. I genuinely enjoy both codes, but for different reasons.

At the end of the day, a good game in either code is fantastic to watch, and a bad game in either can be dire.
Yes that's very much my outlook too, tbh I understand union largely through playing throughout my school years, uni days and the local rugby club but have always watched both codes on tv.

I'm not exactly in the heart of league country in Southport, but near enough to know just how keenly league is followed in Wigan and St Helens and football in Manchester and Liverpool. Union is only really played in certain schools, almost all fee paying ones, as football predominates in state schools.

Some of the rule violations though, even I find hard to determine as it's so subjective and open to the referee's interpretation, no wonder less avid watchers are perplexed. In the end it's usually the one the referee spots first as half a dozen could at times be called.

:D

Absolutely agree on games in both codes being wonderful to watch at times and splendid entertainment can be had at either. As with all sports and as a rule of thumb, the higher the level, the better the quality of player, the more entertaining it is to watch, but there are no guarantees and good sides can just as easily cancel each other out and a tactical battle decides it.

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Re: Rugby discussion

Post by forestfan » 26 Feb 2019, 21:46

Agree that union has some unfathomable rules and a real problem in refereeing the scrums in particular.

I’ve just never really “got” league though, I just find it formulaic and lacking in variety, and then the fact that there’s no contests for the ball. Guess we all have different sports that do or don’t appeal... for example, I love NFL (which is something of a Marmite sport in this country) but not keen on any of the other major American team sports.

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Re: Rugby discussion

Post by liquidfootball2 » 10 Mar 2019, 09:40

What purpose is served by having Italy in the six nations? Other than a nice jolly in Rome every other year, there isn't one.

They weren't helped by both centres going off injured relatively early on, but breaking their tackles was like ripping through tissue paper. Compare that defence to the steely street wise Welsh superbly organised by defence coach Shaun Edwards.

It's time Italy were dropped from the championship, Georgia may be better and promotion/relegation is going to be discussed soon.

Personally I wouldn't be against just going back to the five nations.

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Re: Rugby discussion

Post by liquidfootball2 » 13 Mar 2019, 08:55

Re - Italy

This article from Paul Hayward says it all for me (copied in as behind paywall)

Look, we all love Rome, and the Blazers have particular reason to adore it, with the food and the cool hotels, but there is a particular cruelty to the way Italy are locked into a relegation-phobic Six Nations Championship.

This Saturday, tens of thousands will march to the Stadio Olimpico for a zombie fixture: Italy versus France, between a team who show no wish to be in this Six Nations (France) against another who have outstayed their welcome - for now. Which is not to dismiss all the hard work invested in making Italy a front-rank nation. But after 21 consecutive defeats in Europe’s top-tier tournament, the Italians are more hostages than contenders.

Most of the claims made for the Six Nations are gloriously correct. Its conviviality, unpredictability and intensity are beyond doubt. It strips British and Irish sport back to its essence. Without it, you would never believe people from six such diverse nations could worship such a brutal activity in such a civilised environment. But this gratitude should not blind people to the reality of this year’s tournament, where two of the six contestants are passengers. France, because they choose to be, through self-sabotage, and Italy, who, despite their best efforts, are being used as an Old European barricade to Georgia and other emerging countries.

Since Italy joined the fiesta 19 years ago their record is won 12, drawn 1, lost 85, with a points difference of minus 1,828. By Saturday night, their collection of wooden spoons will have grown to 14 from 20 attempts: enough to fill the utensils draw of a major hotel kitchen. In this year’s Championship they have conceded 19 tries and 144 points in four games. Against England, who beat them 57-14 on Saturday, they are 659 points down in a 19-year rivalry.

Any scorn should be reserved for France, who have consistently diluted their identity, trawled ancient history for coaches and alienated their public. This time round they blew a 16-0 half-time lead against Wales, bled 44 points to England and slid to a 19-0 half-time deficit in Dublin (they did also deign to beat Scotland in Paris). Their contribution has been risible, which is never an accusation you could aim at Italy, whose magnificent leader, Sergio Parisse, is surely unsurpassable in having a career record that bears no relation to his ability. Parisse has played 137 matches for Italy and lost 103 of them. In the Six Nations his numbers are played 68, lost 58.

The indignity of those stats will not be hidden by slogans about how great the Six Nations is. Nor can the most powerful nations claim to be doing Italy “a favour” by keeping them on board, helping them to develop. The weakest of the six are being held in servitude by countries who use them for easy wins and nice trips to Rome. England are so now sure of victory over the Azzurri that Joe Cockanasiga decided he could beat them one-handed, waving the ball about in one fist.

Eddie Jones, the England coach and beneficiary of this imbalance, did the right thing by questioning the point of keeping Italy pinned to this wheel of fire. "The organisers talk about the Six Nations being the best rugby competition in the world, and it probably is close to it,” Jones said. "But to improve it you've got to find a way of making sure you've got the six best teams in Europe always playing in it. If that involves relegation then it's something that should be looked at very closely."

With Italy’s special protection comes commensurate injustice for Georgia, Romania, Russia, Belgium, Germany and Spain - the countries in the next tier down. Especially Georgia, who have won it for seven of the past eight years, and whose only reward is to be used for scrum practice and fisticuffs by England - who at least pay them the basic respect of inviting them into camp.

Georgia would struggle too in a Six Nations, but that’s not the cause of their exclusion. You try selling a weekend in Tblisi to a committee man accustomed to the sights of Rome. Granted, the European club structure gives Italy a much bigger stake in its main championship between nations, but 85 defeats in 98 matches rather undermines that logic.

This week’s meeting in Dublin to discuss a proposed Nations Championship will have old school rugby folk bristling again. Six Nations promotion and relegation, however, is not the barmiest suggestion in rugby’s latest battle between privilege and expansion. Accepting the painful logic of Italy’s numbers would bring mercy and justice into one digestible change.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... uld-spare/

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Re: Rugby discussion

Post by trampie » 20 Mar 2019, 19:00

Excellent Grand Slam for Wales in the context of the injuries they have to some key players and the way they still gave everybody in their injury hit squad a game doing mass changes for the Italy away game, Wales have now won 14 games on the bounce and are now up to #2 in the World rankings.
If Wales can maintain their form [not worried about WC warm up games] im happy with the WC draw Wales have, although luck comes into it [Wales have been in two semis and a straight red card in each game], Wales are currently in a good place.

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