Loan Agreement Headaches
-
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: 19 Aug 2014, 14:05
Loan Agreement Headaches
I'm really struggling to get my head around when it is good to use strategic/performance related loan agreements.
For instance, if I had Rooney from GW4 onwards, then switching him out for Giroud from GW8 - GW10 could be slightly profitable.
Then switching out Rooney to Aguero for GW17 - GW20 could also be profitable.
However, the latter loan deal would mean that I would need to hope that Aguero will be fit and available for when GW17 comes around, and also if I were to do this, I would need to keep 1.5M in the bank to upgrade Rooney to Aguero, so I am going to have a team that is only valued at 158.5M from September to January, compared to my rivals that will likely be using up their whole 160.0M budget. I am then also gambling on Aguero not outscoring Rooney significantly from GW4 - GW16 as well. It looks like I will need an awful lot to go right, in order to eek out a very meagre profit from a couple of loans in the first half of the season.
Is it me or are these loan agreements just for injuries, in which case they kind of suck, since you have already lost out by having one of your big players being injured, and then the loan just helps mitigate some of that loss.
Surely a points penalty of 3 or 4 points for the first week, and then 1 point for every subsequent week of the deal up to a maximum of 4 weeks, would make these loan agreements more appealing and useful.
Thoughts?
For instance, if I had Rooney from GW4 onwards, then switching him out for Giroud from GW8 - GW10 could be slightly profitable.
Then switching out Rooney to Aguero for GW17 - GW20 could also be profitable.
However, the latter loan deal would mean that I would need to hope that Aguero will be fit and available for when GW17 comes around, and also if I were to do this, I would need to keep 1.5M in the bank to upgrade Rooney to Aguero, so I am going to have a team that is only valued at 158.5M from September to January, compared to my rivals that will likely be using up their whole 160.0M budget. I am then also gambling on Aguero not outscoring Rooney significantly from GW4 - GW16 as well. It looks like I will need an awful lot to go right, in order to eek out a very meagre profit from a couple of loans in the first half of the season.
Is it me or are these loan agreements just for injuries, in which case they kind of suck, since you have already lost out by having one of your big players being injured, and then the loan just helps mitigate some of that loss.
Surely a points penalty of 3 or 4 points for the first week, and then 1 point for every subsequent week of the deal up to a maximum of 4 weeks, would make these loan agreements more appealing and useful.
Thoughts?
- The Catman
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 4415
- Joined: 27 Jun 2013, 13:30
- FS Record: Winner 2013 TFC T20 wickets league; Winner 2012 F1 Fantasyracers.com. Winner Mirror FF Free League 2014/15. 6th TFC T20 runs 2016.
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
Playing the beat last year helped make my mind up to steer clean of loans wherever possible.
The 4 week loan seems to be much cheaper but once you have made it you are stuck with it for four weeks as if you wanted to bring, say, Aguero back in you lose the points spent on the loan in the first place.
The 4 week loan seems to be much cheaper but once you have made it you are stuck with it for four weeks as if you wanted to bring, say, Aguero back in you lose the points spent on the loan in the first place.
-
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: 19 Aug 2014, 14:05
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
The problem with avoiding loans is that you are surely passing up on a key part of the game, and therefore giving away an edge that with careful preparation you could/should be taking advantage of to get the jump on your rivals.
The reason that I am considering potential loans right now in August, is because I will probably need to set my GW4 team up with the right players in order to have that potential to make the profitable loans I want to do, later on.
I'm just wondering what other people are doing. Are they avoiding loans unless they get an injury?
The reason that I am considering potential loans right now in August, is because I will probably need to set my GW4 team up with the right players in order to have that potential to make the profitable loans I want to do, later on.
I'm just wondering what other people are doing. Are they avoiding loans unless they get an injury?
-
- Red & Blue Braces
- Posts: 468
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:33
- FS Record: UFPL beta winner 2014, OFL ISO winner 2013
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
You pretty much summed it up, I think the loan prices are too high and they are best steered clear of except in extreme situations (double game weeks, injuries to several key players).
-
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: 19 Aug 2014, 14:05
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
Does that not then feel like the game is a bit 'broken' to you then?You pretty much summed it up, I think the loan prices are too high and they are best steered clear of except in extreme situations (double game weeks, injuries to several key players).
I mean really for the first half of the season, we are just hoping that we guess a bit better than our rivals in terms of who are the best prospects for the season, and if you get it wrong, then you just have to ride out the next 17 weeks on auto-pilot until you get to January?
- The Catman
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 4415
- Joined: 27 Jun 2013, 13:30
- FS Record: Winner 2013 TFC T20 wickets league; Winner 2012 F1 Fantasyracers.com. Winner Mirror FF Free League 2014/15. 6th TFC T20 runs 2016.
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
No, not broken, just different.
It mirrors the real Prem League - after the window shuts you are stuck with your world beaters/donkeys until January - same in UFPL.
It mirrors the real Prem League - after the window shuts you are stuck with your world beaters/donkeys until January - same in UFPL.
-
- Red & Blue Braces
- Posts: 468
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:33
- FS Record: UFPL beta winner 2014, OFL ISO winner 2013
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
Agreed: not broken, just a different way of managing than we're used to in other games where transfers mean everyone brings in the popular players. Planning ahead, and squad diversity will pay off.
-
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: 19 Aug 2014, 14:05
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
Having loan agreements that have a better chance of being profitable should keep you on edge more and make the game more fun in between the transfer windows, as your rivals could be usurping you at any moment, (and you likewise with them), due to cheeky little moves in the loan market, that help gain further points on top of the high points you get from having a well balanced squad.skip wrote:Agreed: not broken, just a different way of managing than we're used to in other games where transfers mean everyone brings in the popular players. Planning ahead, and squad diversity will pay off.
Remember, a profitable loan agreement system still won't cover you fully for not planning ahead and having poor squad diversity, since you have a squad of 25 and you would only be looking to loan a handful of players at once, so therefore a better loan system means that we get a fully all-encompassing game where you have to plan long term and short term in order to be the best fantasy manager.
- reds363
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 5912
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:34
- FS Record: FPL 28th 06/07; TFFO 3rd 09/10; TFF 3rd 12/13
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
My thoughts are it's only for when you have expensive players out injured.
-
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 11136
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
An expensive injured player is a necessary but not sufficient condition. You also need several other players injured at the same time. Obviously if you have several expensive players injured loans are essential. There's an interesting trade off between different lengths of loans. As the apparent better value for the longer loans means that you are locked in unless you are prepared to subsequently write of some of the cost.reds363 wrote:My thoughts are it's only for when you have expensive players out injured.
- Billy Bongo
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 12000
- Joined: 21 Jul 2013, 22:18
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
All seems irrelevant will the extra transfers we get, 15 in first 3 weeks. It's got no real heart this game, doesn't seem to know what it's about, just betwix and between
-
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: 19 Aug 2014, 14:05
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
So basically you never want to be making any emergency loans and shouldn't plan for any, since the only times when it might be slightly profitable is when you've suffered injuries, and the injuries in themselves hurt you very badly, with the loans just mitigating some of that pain but not all.Striker wrote:An expensive injured player is a necessary but not sufficient condition. You also need several other players injured at the same time. Obviously if you have several expensive players injured loans are essential. There's an interesting trade off between different lengths of loans. As the apparent better value for the longer loans means that you are locked in unless you are prepared to subsequently write of some of the cost.reds363 wrote:My thoughts are it's only for when you have expensive players out injured.
Doesn't seem like a particularly good system or game mechanic to me.
Last edited by Football Hero on 26 Aug 2014, 13:07, edited 2 times in total.
- The Catman
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 4415
- Joined: 27 Jun 2013, 13:30
- FS Record: Winner 2013 TFC T20 wickets league; Winner 2012 F1 Fantasyracers.com. Winner Mirror FF Free League 2014/15. 6th TFC T20 runs 2016.
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
Almost, but it is there an option, just not a particularily cheap one points wise, I'm definitely regarding it as a last resort, but if last season you had Suarez and Aguero and they both got injured in September then at least you would be able to do something about it.Football Hero wrote:So basically you never want to be making any emergency loans and shouldn't plan for any, since the only times when it might be slightly profitable is when you've suffered injuries, and the injuries in themselves hurt you very badly, with the loans just mitigating some of that pain but not all.Striker wrote:An expensive injured player is a necessary but not sufficient condition. You also need several other players injured at the same time. Obviously if you have several expensive players injured loans are essential. There's an interesting trade off between different lengths of loans. As the apparent better value for the longer loans means that you are locked in unless you are prepared to subsequently write of some of the cost.reds363 wrote:My thoughts are it's only for when you have expensive players out injured.
Doesn't seem like a particularly good system or game mecanic to me.
- Billy Bongo
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 12000
- Joined: 21 Jul 2013, 22:18
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
I've never viewed the loans as injury cover. You've such large squad as to never need cover. I see them as pure punts for short term cap choices
- The Catman
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 4415
- Joined: 27 Jun 2013, 13:30
- FS Record: Winner 2013 TFC T20 wickets league; Winner 2012 F1 Fantasyracers.com. Winner Mirror FF Free League 2014/15. 6th TFC T20 runs 2016.
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
Interesting. Seeing as your well above me we'll see how it goes.Billy Bongo wrote:I've never viewed the loans as injury cover. You've such large squad as to never need cover. I see them as pure punts for short term cap choices
-
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 11136
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
No. What you are missing is that most managers will over the long period between transfer windows get several injuries. Depending on how many you have and who they are, there will sometimes be a good case for making transfers. But one should exercise caution. You are certainly correct in suggesting that one shouldn't plan for loans in advance of the unknown future injuries. As regards to mitigating the pain, that's a good thing as most managers will be suffering at some stage. So if you successfully mitigate - bingo!Football Hero wrote:So basically you never want to be making any emergency loans and shouldn't plan for any, since the only times when it might be slightly profitable is when you've suffered injuries, and the injuries in themselves hurt you very badly, with the loans just mitigating some of that pain but not all.Striker wrote:An expensive injured player is a necessary but not sufficient condition. You also need several other players injured at the same time. Obviously if you have several expensive players injured loans are essential. There's an interesting trade off between different lengths of loans. As the apparent better value for the longer loans means that you are locked in unless you are prepared to subsequently write of some of the cost.reds363 wrote:My thoughts are it's only for when you have expensive players out injured.
You seem determined to be very negative even before you have really got into the game.
-
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: 19 Aug 2014, 14:05
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
I've paid a fiver and UFPL have already messed up the bonus points in my opinion, (dishing out defensive BP's FAR more readily than attacking BP's, as well as inconsistencies on what constitutes a big chance in a match), so I think I have a right to be sceptical from what I have seen so far. I'm a paying customer and I feel as though I've been duped into playing a premium fantasy football game that is not nearly as complicated or well thought out as it actually sells itself to be.Striker wrote:No. What you are missing is that most managers will over the long period between transfer windows get several injuries. Depending on how many you have and who they are, there will sometimes be a good case for making transfers. But one should exercise caution. You are certainly correct in suggesting that one shouldn't plan for loans in advance of the unknown future injuries. As regards to mitigating the pain, that's a good thing as most managers will be suffering at some stage. So if you successfully mitigate - bingo!Football Hero wrote:So basically you never want to be making any emergency loans and shouldn't plan for any, since the only times when it might be slightly profitable is when you've suffered injuries, and the injuries in themselves hurt you very badly, with the loans just mitigating some of that pain but not all.Striker wrote:An expensive injured player is a necessary but not sufficient condition. You also need several other players injured at the same time. Obviously if you have several expensive players injured loans are essential. There's an interesting trade off between different lengths of loans. As the apparent better value for the longer loans means that you are locked in unless you are prepared to subsequently write of some of the cost.reds363 wrote:My thoughts are it's only for when you have expensive players out injured.
You seem determined to be very negative even before you have really got into the game.
Once GW4 comes, in the following 17 weeks you're almost hoping for an injury to a big gun so that you can loan someone out and mix things up for a bit, since as the rules stand right now, this game will probably become stale after a few weeks where from GW7+ you have a squad of 21 available players, (with four cheapies either dropped or injured by that point), so each week you just choose the best 18 options out of 21 and then place those 18 in match day order and substitute around that. If your rivals have lucked into choosing the better big guns for the season then you are stuffed until January, whereby you could be miles behind and unable to save things at that point.
Hopefully I'm completely wrong, but the omens are not looking good right now from what I have seen and experienced two weeks in.
-
- Treebeard
- Posts: 239
- Joined: 17 Aug 2012, 14:26
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
I used loans last season on the beta to my advantage, no doubt they will come in handy this season also.
Basically if you are loaning in one player for one game week it is no different to taking a points hit on the fpl game, you get -4 points.
An unexpected player might hit form who you might want in for a good fixture, you don't necessarily have to have an injured player to take advantage of the loan system.
Basically if you are loaning in one player for one game week it is no different to taking a points hit on the fpl game, you get -4 points.
An unexpected player might hit form who you might want in for a good fixture, you don't necessarily have to have an injured player to take advantage of the loan system.
- Billy Bongo
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 12000
- Joined: 21 Jul 2013, 22:18
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
A loan for a injured player when you should have chosen your squad better seems pointless.
I used loans in beta simply up bring in a big player I didn't have who had fabulous fixtures, that's all.
I used loans in beta simply up bring in a big player I didn't have who had fabulous fixtures, that's all.
-
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: 19 Aug 2014, 14:05
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
No, because in the standard game you aren't forced to swap back after a week, so if you take a hit for someone and then keep him for three weeks in the standard game, it is -4 + 0 + 0 = -4 for the three week spell. In the Ultimate game that same move would cost you 9 points. You are correct if you mean that you also plan to swap your new transfer out for the week after, in which case it is the same in that specific instance, but that is rare that you do that, (at least it should be if you want to win).Lugger wrote:I used loans last season on the beta to my advantage, no doubt they will come in handy this season also.
Basically if you are loaning in one player for one game week it is no different to taking a points hit on the fpl game, you get -4 points.
An unexpected player might hit form who you might want in for a good fixture, you don't necessarily have to have an injured player to take advantage of the loan system.
For the standard game, in general points hits are negative expected value if you are only doing it for a one week only thing, (save for double gameweeks etc.), but points hits in the standard game can be positive expected value if you are getting a player in for multiple weeks due to there being no additional points penalty for keeping them longer than one week.
- gooberman
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 8241
- Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 17:27
- FS Record: 343rd in FPL 07-08
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
Typical that one of my players - Debuchy gets injured just after the transfer window closes. I would imagine it could be a fairly long term injury too. Why couldn't this have happened last GW!! I could have swapped him for Chambers and upgraded another player.
Not sure what to do now. The emergency loan thing is a good idea but they have priced it wrongly in my opinion and made it too costly in terms of points lost. To lose 10pts to bring a replacement in for 4 weeks doesn't seem worth it. Even if the player you bring in gets a couple of clean sheets in that period, the overall gain isn't that much, and that is assuming the other defenders in your squad who would have played instead get no clean sheets. I think I may just have to make do without him.
Not sure what to do now. The emergency loan thing is a good idea but they have priced it wrongly in my opinion and made it too costly in terms of points lost. To lose 10pts to bring a replacement in for 4 weeks doesn't seem worth it. Even if the player you bring in gets a couple of clean sheets in that period, the overall gain isn't that much, and that is assuming the other defenders in your squad who would have played instead get no clean sheets. I think I may just have to make do without him.
- The Catman
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 4415
- Joined: 27 Jun 2013, 13:30
- FS Record: Winner 2013 TFC T20 wickets league; Winner 2012 F1 Fantasyracers.com. Winner Mirror FF Free League 2014/15. 6th TFC T20 runs 2016.
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
Similar here - took Chambers out for Debuchy Stuck with him now.gooberman wrote:Typical that one of my players - Debuchy gets injured just after the transfer window closes. I would imagine it could be a fairly long term injury too. Why couldn't this have happened last GW!! I could have swapped him for Chambers and upgraded another player.
Not sure what to do now. The emergency loan thing is a good idea but they have priced it wrongly in my opinion and made it too costly in terms of points lost. To lose 10pts to bring a replacement in for 4 weeks doesn't seem worth it. Even if the player you bring in gets a couple of clean sheets in that period, the overall gain isn't that much, and that is assuming the other defenders in your squad who would have played instead get no clean sheets. I think I may just have to make do without him.
- gooberman
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 8241
- Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 17:27
- FS Record: 343rd in FPL 07-08
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
I just can't think of any situations were it would be worthwhile to take a 4pt hit just to bring in a player for 1 week only so it seems a bit of a pointless facility. It's been suggested somewhere else that it could be a worthwhile move to captain a big hitter who has a favourable fixture. However, you could argue that when you have players playing on separate match days, you have 2 and sometimes 3 chances to get some points from your captain anyway.The Catman wrote:Similar here - took Chambers out for Debuchy Stuck with him now.gooberman wrote:Typical that one of my players - Debuchy gets injured just after the transfer window closes. I would imagine it could be a fairly long term injury too. Why couldn't this have happened last GW!! I could have swapped him for Chambers and upgraded another player.
Not sure what to do now. The emergency loan thing is a good idea but they have priced it wrongly in my opinion and made it too costly in terms of points lost. To lose 10pts to bring a replacement in for 4 weeks doesn't seem worth it. Even if the player you bring in gets a couple of clean sheets in that period, the overall gain isn't that much, and that is assuming the other defenders in your squad who would have played instead get no clean sheets. I think I may just have to make do without him.
- Calvin1979
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 2864
- Joined: 19 Aug 2010, 10:11
- FS Record: Ruined by real life responsibilities
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
What's everyone doing about Rooney? I'm tempted to bring in Pelle for GWs 8 and 9.
-
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 4394
- Joined: 07 Jul 2009, 16:52
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
SellingCalvin1979 wrote:What's everyone doing about Rooney?
- Calvin1979
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 2864
- Joined: 19 Aug 2010, 10:11
- FS Record: Ruined by real life responsibilities
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
Cracking contribution as always. Anyone with a valid opinion?Bert. wrote:SellingCalvin1979 wrote:What's everyone doing about Rooney?
-
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 7607
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
- Location: In hiding
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
I don't have him, but if I did I'd be looking at Welbeck or Costa depending on my squad make up.Calvin1979 wrote:Cracking contribution as always. Anyone with a valid opinion?Bert. wrote:SellingCalvin1979 wrote:What's everyone doing about Rooney?
-
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 4394
- Joined: 07 Jul 2009, 16:52
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
Well, Cally, no opinion at all would be more valuable than asking stupid questions that demand obvious answers as you're prone to doing.Calvin1979 wrote:Cracking contribution as always. Anyone with a valid opinion?Bert. wrote:SellingCalvin1979 wrote:What's everyone doing about Rooney?
- The Catman
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 4415
- Joined: 27 Jun 2013, 13:30
- FS Record: Winner 2013 TFC T20 wickets league; Winner 2012 F1 Fantasyracers.com. Winner Mirror FF Free League 2014/15. 6th TFC T20 runs 2016.
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
Making do without having to use a loan - not sure how successful that will be thoughCalvin1979 wrote:What's everyone doing about Rooney? I'm tempted to bring in Pelle for GWs 8 and 9.
- Calvin1979
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 2864
- Joined: 19 Aug 2010, 10:11
- FS Record: Ruined by real life responsibilities
- FPL:
Re: Loan Agreement Headaches
Are you actually playing UFPL?Bert. wrote:Well, Cally, no opinion at all would be more valuable than asking stupid questions that demand obvious answers as you're prone to doing.
Send my regards to Ernie.
View Latest: 1 Day View Your posts