FISO

hmmm... 24h to GW25 deadline, and GW24 updates not yet out.
Need help?

MoSe wrote: ↑01 Feb 2019, 10:32 hmmm... 24h to GW25 deadline, and GW24 updates not yet out.
Need help?

No fine thanks - just trying to reflect the general apathy to this and other sidegames that seems to have become a permanent fixture here now. Maybe I'll take up your offer at the end of the season.

Also wanted to wait until Jan transfer window was over in case any changes were needed.

latest results/fixtures incoming....

RomynPG wrote:...just trying to reflect the general apathy to this and other sidegames that seems to have become a permanent fixture here now...

Why is that, do you think? Our 5AS team communicates but I agree that there isn't much banter going on here. Similar with the divisionals, which are great but quiet. Has FISO lost the sense of community it once had (perhaps more before my time)?

Ruth_NZ wrote: ↑01 Feb 2019, 16:33

RomynPG wrote:...just trying to reflect the general apathy to this and other sidegames that seems to have become a permanent fixture here now...

Why is that, do you think? Our 5AS team communicates but I agree that there isn't much banter going on here. Similar with the divisionals, which are great but quiet. Has FISO lost the sense of community it once had (perhaps more before my time)?

To me it's pretty much down to mobile phones and social media.

Mobile phones make it more difficult to join in BBS based conversations - quoting, adding attachments and links etc - and as such I suspect a much larger % just read rather than participate.

Social Media has sucked a lot of the "banter" away and posts here now tend to be extremely focused without the giggles as people use SM for that side of their lives.

That's my take on it anyway. BBSs need to somehow adapt to "fix" those issues or less I can see them disappearing completely.

Ruth_NZ wrote:

RomynPG wrote:...just trying to reflect the general apathy to this and other sidegames that seems to have become a permanent fixture here now...

Why is that, do you think? Our 5AS team communicates but I agree that there isn't much banter going on here. Similar with the divisionals, which are great but quiet. Has FISO lost the sense of community it once had (perhaps more before my time)?

No hard feelings towards MoSe, but last season he continually updated the Divisionals by creating a new post which prompted me to go check it out. This season the updates are done in the first post and I can only see those by going to the topic myself.

RomynPG wrote:...posts here now tend to be extremely focused without the giggles as people use S&M for that side of their lives.

But that's only Ironfist, right?

Joccki_10 wrote: ↑01 Feb 2019, 17:13 No hard feelings towards MoSe, but last season he continually updated the Divisionals by creating a new post which prompted me to go check it out. This season the updates are done in the first post and I can only see those by going to the topic myself.

This is the main reason I'm not a fan of offsite sidegame registration or offsite game results stuff - people don't even have to visit FISO once they've bookmarked an external link.

I fully understand why some admins take that route however - it would be impossible presenting 5AS in it's current state, which I want to keep to if possible, if I had to do it via a mobile device.

(As I've posted a few times in the past) I want to move 5AS to a different platform but to do that I'd also want to be able to embed external pages within posts via a custom bbCode (a la youTube) so the game is still on FISO not the external site I'd actually run it on.

Ruth_NZ wrote: ↑01 Feb 2019, 17:24

RomynPG wrote:...posts here now tend to be extremely focused without the giggles as people use S&M for that side of their lives.

But that's only Ironfist, right?

Is that what IronFist refers to

RomynPG wrote:

Ruth_NZ wrote:

RomynPG wrote:...posts here now tend to be extremely focused without the giggles as people use S&M for that side of their lives.

But that's only Ironfist, right?

Is that what IronFist refers to?

I always assumed so. Maybe I misunderstood?

See, the thing is that the sidegames are a big part of what makes FISO unique. I'm still not playing as many as I could but they have grown on me. Finding a way to make them more active rather than passive participation, that's the aim, right? Though I have no idea how to do that.

Ruth_NZ wrote: ↑01 Feb 2019, 17:38

RomynPG wrote:

Ruth_NZ wrote:

RomynPG wrote:...posts here now tend to be extremely focused without the giggles as people use S&M for that side of their lives.

But that's only Ironfist, right?

Is that what IronFist refers to?

I always assumed so. Maybe I misunderstood?

Don't you go all innocent now Ruth... you promised you'll be discreet too!

But I agree on the social media sucking all the motivation out of the FISO forum. It shouldn't happen, this is a unique place here. But it's not just social media... it's the personalities and contents too. It's less about football and more about the 'fantasy game' than it used to be. The Mods have more mild attitudes (ssshhh... 'personalities'). Vid & Admin have not shown their faces here in decades... I almost miss Muzzinho.

I almost miss The Dazzler, we need a 'win at all costs' pantomime villain even though he'd had a sense of humour bypass. It's a shame the Aristocrats never tried to defend their only title

I’ve been quiet on this thread of late simply because I’m more of a ‘sing when you’re winning’ poster and we’ve been piss poor in 2019

Joccki_10 wrote: ↑01 Feb 2019, 17:13

Ruth_NZ wrote:

RomynPG wrote:...just trying to reflect the general apathy to this and other sidegames that seems to have become a permanent fixture here now...

Why is that, do you think? Our 5AS team communicates but I agree that there isn't much banter going on here. Similar with the divisionals, which are great but quiet. Has FISO lost the sense of community it once had (perhaps more before my time)?

No hard feelings towards MoSe, but last season he continually updated the Divisionals by creating a new post which prompted me to go check it out. This season the updates are done in the first post and I can only see those by going to the topic myself.

well...
1. I had been threatened to (actually, "reminded that the rules allow the mods to delete any content or ban me" if I don't) avoid using "excess formatting", and the topic where I most used formatting, in the "delusion" that it was useful, was indeed Divisionals.
So my scared and cautious and conservative reaction, fearing I could become victim of *arbitrary* but unquestionable action, was to reduce my managing of the Divisonals topic to the bare of the barest of the barest of the very barest minimum for my last season in charge.
A big big big big big big big big win for the mod(s), of course in the greater interest of Fiso.
2. It could be ironic but I didn't bookmark the online Divisionals file myself. I can reach it going to my Google Drive, but I actually go to the Div topic OP everytime and follow the link there
3. At first it was a "light" version, but with time the online file became actually cooler than the desktop version on my PC. OK, it lacks the HoF and the stacked graphs (which I keep for my own pleasure now).
But as capturing screenshots for tables was becoming tiresome, and I feared I could get actions against me for "excess of weekly attachments", I though that just reposting a link and the word "updated" every gw had become superfluous.
4. I *intentionally* this season stopped just posting "updated", indeed to "force" those really interested to check the online file every gw out of their own initiative, possibly by going in the topic and using the link (I admit I had naively overlooked they could just bookmark the sheet, lol).
Without assessing it properly, I got anyway the feeling this choice successfully enticed a wider and enhanced participation and contribution by players in the topic.
For those who miss being spoonfed, I'm sorry but I did it expressly to stimulate them.

RomynPG wrote: ↑01 Feb 2019, 17:09

Ruth_NZ wrote: ↑01 Feb 2019, 16:33

RomynPG wrote:...just trying to reflect the general apathy to this and other sidegames that seems to have become a permanent fixture here now...

Why is that, do you think? Our 5AS team communicates but I agree that there isn't much banter going on here. Similar with the divisionals, which are great but quiet. Has FISO lost the sense of community it once had (perhaps more before my time)?

To me it's pretty much down to mobile phones and social media.

Mobile phones make it more difficult to join in BBS based conversations - quoting, adding attachments and links etc - and as such I suspect a much larger % just read rather than participate.

Social Media has sucked a lot of the "banter" away and posts here now tend to be extremely focused without the giggles as people use SM for that side of their lives.

That's my take on it anyway. BBSs need to somehow adapt to "fix" those issues or less I can see them disappearing completely.

Let's not ignore the elephant in the room that is FFS as well, but yes I agree with the sentiment you've expressed here. Their discussion board is more like Twitter, and it's proved a canny move on their part.

Like MoSe, I've streamlined what I'm doing and I can imagine you're doing that as well. I'd have loved to have done the Six Nations again as I think there's a way of doing it that can be more social, but I just have too much going on career wise at the moment, and I'd want to do it properly. It's a shame the pool of sidegame organisers has dried up.

I included marketing questionnaire on my Google sign up sheet before the start of the season and received a lot of feedback which I made available to Admin, Vid and the other mods, and I've expressed what I feel could be done.

I think it's clear the prevailing environment is one where the internet is moving away from forums... we've said it enough times on these very pages. A few big ones like Digitalspy, and special interest ones that are able to offer a core paywall offering supports the board continue to do well. This is an interesting read - https://www.newstatesman.com/science-te ... sage-board

Mo Bot wrote: ↑01 Feb 2019, 21:15 I’ve been quiet on this thread of late simply because I’m more of a ‘sing when you’re winning’ poster and we’ve been piss poor in 2019

Been close to deleting my account here and just dont do this shit anymore

snakzz wrote: ↑04 Feb 2019, 07:50

Mo Bot wrote: ↑01 Feb 2019, 21:15 I’ve been quiet on this thread of late simply because I’m more of a ‘sing when you’re winning’ poster and we’ve been piss poor in 2019

Been close to deleting my account here and just dont do this shit anymore

snakzz, get a grip. You’re still in the Top 100k with a ranking higher than I have had all season. When I clicked through I thought you’d be outside a million or something

Smurphy's Paw wrote: ↑04 Feb 2019, 08:10

snakzz wrote: ↑04 Feb 2019, 07:50

Mo Bot wrote: ↑01 Feb 2019, 21:15 I’ve been quiet on this thread of late simply because I’m more of a ‘sing when you’re winning’ poster and we’ve been piss poor in 2019

Been close to deleting my account here and just dont do this shit anymore

snakzz, get a grip. You’re still in the Top 100k with a ranking higher than I have had all season. When I clicked through I thought you’d be outside a million or something

Haha, well it is MORE then enough to ruin my HoF and other rankings But yea

MoSe wrote:

Joccki_10 wrote:

Ruth_NZ wrote:

RomynPG wrote:...just trying to reflect the general apathy to this and other sidegames that seems to have become a permanent fixture here now...

Why is that, do you think? Our 5AS team communicates but I agree that there isn't much banter going on here. Similar with the Divisionals, which are great but quiet. Has FISO lost the sense of community it once had (perhaps more before my time)?

No hard feelings towards MoSe, but last season he continually updated the Divisionals by creating a new post which prompted me to go check it out. This season the updates are done in the first post and I can only see those by going to the topic myself.

Well...
1. I had been "reminded" that the rules allow the mods to delete any content or ban me if I don't avoid using "excess formatting" and the topic where I most used formatting, in the "delusion" that it was useful, was indeed Divisionals. So my cautious and conservative reaction was to reduce my managing of the Divisonals topic to the very barest minimum for my last season in charge. A big, big win for the mod(s), of course in the greater interest of FISO.

This is such a terrible shame. Aren't the mods going to address it? Surely it is enough that MoSe has been caused to feel this way about it, whether that was the intention or no (I'm guessing not but maybe a heavy-handed approach?).

The Divisionals is one of the best sidegames on FISO and it owed a great deal to MoSe's input to the thread, let alone all the admin involved. Now it appears we won't only have a less active thread, we may lose the Divisionals altogether, because I don't see anyone else running it with the same brio.

MoSe is a hugely altruistic FISOer and deserves to be allowed to post what he wants in the way that he wants. And if that breaks forum rules then change the rules. Common sense can surely tell the difference between something beneficial and something harmful? Or is it just a matter of control?

Well said Ruth
The trend towards off-site reports is a hinderance.
As another example, I have just tried to look at my Decathlon score. Mystery’s only been able to post the top 50. I have no idea what my score was and can never get the external sheet to work so don’t bother.
It used to be one of my favourite games. Now I have little idea what is happening.

Ruth_NZ wrote: ↑06 Feb 2019, 01:43

MoSe wrote:

Joccki_10 wrote: [...quotes...]No hard feelings towards MoSe, but last season he continually updated the Divisionals by creating a new post which prompted me to go check it out. This season the updates are done in the first post and I can only see those by going to the topic myself.

Well...
1. I had been "reminded" that the rules allow the mods to delete any content or ban me if I don't avoid using "excess formatting" and the topic where I most used formatting, in the "delusion" that it was useful, was indeed Divisionals. So my cautious and conservative reaction was to reduce my managing of the Divisonals topic to the very barest minimum for my last season in charge. A big, big win for the mod(s), of course in the greater interest of FISO.

This is such a terrible shame. Aren't the mods going to address it? Surely it is enough that MoSe has been caused to feel this way about it, whether that was the intention or no (I'm guessing not but maybe a heavy-handed approach?).

thnak you RNZ for the endorsement, but please leave the things as they are.
I begin to regret I vented this, spurred by the comment about my sidegame topic management.
The rules are there and I knew them. I asked why I got reminded exactly of those two rules as a side to another issue where I hadn't broken them, but got no reply in clarification.
You know we're all passible of restrictive actions even just for mentioning and talking about this.

Let's talk about 5AS

Vid wrote: ↑06 Feb 2019, 18:56Likely to shift this post and other relevant posts in the near future, but anyone wishing to follow/ engage will have to look outside of FPL to find it!

I think that would be useful - I'd certainly like to discuss this more but didn't want to derail this thread too much. I do get out and about in FISO a bit so I'm not scared

okay, best not to try to move posts after a few beers and glasses of wine, will attempt to fix!

I think there are a few things in play here. I’m sitting on the fence to say some are good and some are bad. A forum evolves by itself and time IMO.

1. FPL has become a monster. I’m certain there are not 6 million individuals playing but the number playing has gone up. I’d guess at the playing population of Sun and TFF may have dwindled. Other games have almost no FISO interest (Sky apart) and most other games I have played along the years have died. The same goes for other games like fantasy golf too.

2. As FPL has become so big, a lot of the topics are FPL-related.

3. Although we are rubbish at the game and I think this was discussed in RNZ’s RMT, our understanding in the stars and probability has possibly filled the debate a little. Is Liverpool’s defence wort the double up? Someone probably has some stats to answer this that may be better than opinion.

4. Off site links and technology have trumped the need for manual updates. I would give an update on the overnight score in the 5AS game( when we’re winning) but it’s available literally at the click of a button. I used to come here for info but it’s all on t’internet now. Joe Bloggs (or Gomez) tweets about his injury before it is ‘properly’ reported.

5. A lot of the ‘characters’ have either moved on or have been asked to move on. This has left the football chat forums a bit empty. The days of a 400 page thread by Groomyd about how Wenger built the stadium himself and how Tony Pulis is evil or a thread about how long a jar of peanut butter placed upside down will take to fall are long gone.

FWIW, the side games are what keeps the place ticking and I would hate to see the end of the games that I play regularly.

We've had many "state of FISO" debates over the years. It's been through a lot of different phases, but one thing's for certain, it's still going strong after what must be pushing 20 years, which is pretty impressive.

There may be competition from general social media, and other FF forums (I haven't looked at the FFS one, presumably it lives up to its name, and not sure if the schoolyard bullies' FF forum is still going but have little wish to find out). But there's still hundreds of posts per day, after all the people have come and gone over the years.

It does seem more FPL-focused now (a game I've never got on with, but has slowly suffocated its rivals over the past decade, sadly) and less "social"... I remember what you might call the golden era of FISO, around when this current board started, there were so many national FF games, side games and discussion threads. Obviously it had its problem individuals, who not everyone agreed about (other than darkspidey, who everyone apart from those in charge was campaigning for about 5 years to ban permanently ) but there was a lot of good stuff. It gave rise to games like FISODAS, PL predictions/FISO Goals, and many others. Online poker nights, and lots more besides... I'd love to see some of that back (even if not some of the dickheads) but things move on, and with the speed that the online world has moved on, FISO has to be regarded as one of the great survivors.

Vid wrote:No question that forums are on the wane generally, but the 'community' here has a lot to answer for with this one struggling. The mod team tried to get more posters to leave their ghettos and become more involved in the whole, but were met with complaints and obstinance from so many, including the poster wanting to make an issue of this. What do you want everyone else to do??? Your way or no way? Looks like 'no way' is winning!

I guess this refers to me?

I wanted FISO FPL to be treated as an intact unit is all. I don't think that was an uncommon view among FPL posters. If a forum like FISO FPL has a future it must surely be as some kind of 'centre of excellence' with stuff that is more considered and in-depth than anything you can find on twitter. Diluting the FPL centre of excellence by integrating it more broadly with FISO as a whole would therefore seem to be a move in the wrong direction? That's my take on it anyway.

It is a shame that this discussion has been somewhat sidelined, I only found it again by accident. We are talking about the future of FISO (FISO FPL) here and the biggest question is whether anyone cares. To be perfectly honest, I saw this and my first reaction was not to bother to respond, just to let sleeping dogs die. But I actually think FISO FPL is worth making an effort for. Maybe I am wrong.

Vid wrote:When FISO started access could only be via PC, nowadays the mobile is becoming the majority's method of accessing the internet, whatever is posted does need to be mobile friendly, I don't know whether the voiced issue might have a bearing.

This is a big issue actually. Personally I don't see why everything has to be mobile friendly. I hate smartphones and only have an iPhone under sufferance (for business purposes and facetime mainly). Other than that I don't use it and never for FISO. Isn't there a case that there's a place for a forum that doesn't try to be all things to all people? Something a bit more specialised? I don't see how FISO FPL could possibly develop a USP otherwise, certainly not by competing in the twitter race to the bottom.

Ruth_NZ wrote: ↑19 Feb 2019, 11:42

Vid wrote:When FISO started access could only be via PC, nowadays the mobile is becoming the majority's method of accessing the internet, whatever is posted does need to be mobile friendly, I don't know whether the voiced issue might have a bearing.

This is a big issue actually. Personally I don't see why everything has to be mobile friendly. I hate smartphones and only have an iPhone under sufferance (for business purposes and facetime mainly). Other than that I don't use it and never for FISO. Isn't there a case that there's a place for a forum that doesn't try to be all things to all people? Something a bit more specialised? I don't see how FISO FPL could possibly develop a USP otherwise, certainly not by competing in the twitter race to the bottom.

The majority of forum users are accessing by mobile, it should really be seen as the default platform. Any website that doesn't adapt will die, it's as simple as that.

RomynPG wrote: ↑01 Feb 2019, 17:34

Ruth_NZ wrote: ↑01 Feb 2019, 17:24

RomynPG wrote:...posts here now tend to be extremely focused without the giggles as people use S&M for that side of their lives.

But that's only Ironfist, right?

Is that what IronFist refers to

He sometimes wears a fetching burgundy velvet glove

Tacalabala wrote:

Ruth_NZ wrote:

Vid wrote:When FISO started access could only be via PC, nowadays the mobile is becoming the majority's method of accessing the internet, whatever is posted does need to be mobile friendly, I don't know whether the voiced issue might have a bearing.

This is a big issue actually. Personally I don't see why everything has to be mobile friendly. I hate smartphones and only have an iPhone under sufferance (for business purposes and facetime mainly). Other than that I don't use it and never for FISO. Isn't there a case that there's a place for a forum that doesn't try to be all things to all people? Something a bit more specialised? I don't see how FISO FPL could possibly develop a USP otherwise, certainly not by competing in the twitter race to the bottom.

The majority of forum users are accessing by mobile, it should really be seen as the default platform. Any website that doesn't adapt will die, it's as simple as that.

But it's a website, right? Not twitter or facebook. I can understand that mobiles are the common platform for those but why should a website be? It would be like saying that smartphones should be seen as the default platform for books or periodicals.

Books are for reading; websites are for browsing on a computer; twitter and instagram are services primarily designed for mobiles. Is that too simplistic?

forestfan wrote:Online poker nights, and lots more besides...

You can count me in. I don't get to play much poker nowadays.