Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

[buu1333]

well then that was good even at 1- 0 down I was thinking its ok ,keep it up were not playing bad I kind of wanted ole to do the same but he just stood there. Don't remember de gea have to make a save Apart from the goal. We not bad just all wrong against sitting back defensive teams he can change it

But Everton did sit back today - they just left DCL up front on his own and got everyone else behind the ball sitting deep and trying to break through Bernard on the counter?

And Ole looked pretty lively, energetic and passionate on the sideline today from what I saw - are you watching a different stream to me that doesn't benefit from different camera angles buu?!!

Just consistently inconsistent aren't we right now - very poor in 3 games; average in 2 and very good in 7 so far this season in all competitions. One could argue (and many do!) that failing to keep the team playing at a consistently high level is a failing of the manager - after all the teams under world class managers tend to find a way to get results even when they have an off day - and I get that.

But I still lay a large portion of the blame at players doors when they fail to get up for game and play to the high intensity levels the manager expects and demands - some personalities in that dressing room look like they just turn up when they want to.

One of them, Shaw, picked up an injury today so hopefully Telles can step up to the plate in that time to make the space his. Another, Pogba, is now getting quite rightly dropped to the subs bench - we look a lot more stable with Fred and McTominay as the double pivot rather than in a diamond, but that means that someone (today it was Mata) has to be the square peg in the round hole on the right wing. If only a few more of them were as consistent as Bruno is - quickly becoming a leader on the pitch and stand out candidate to take over the captain's armband.

I was just on about when they scored the goal just that moment not as a whole for ole. And It is not Everton style to sit back though, I am on about teams that are use to defending and not having the ball the teams that have it well drilled in to them. Today Everton had 55 percent possession we had 45 percent

[thebillfella]

Stats are like bikinis...!

But yeh, I think we all agree we struggle to unlock defences when they sit deep. This is why I'd like to see Bruno and DvdB on the pitch together at the same time - would mean DvdB is the square peg playing off the RHS but both are clever create types that can unpick locks like that.

Mata did ok today but is a player on the wain and we need to look forward now.

[buu1333]

but it can help where we are going wrong we need to change our mentally against it . We lost on Wednesday around 75 percent possession we lost against crystal place with 75 percent possession ect .

[buu1333]

Also I think the spurs game is the only game we got completely destroyed the rest is good or not bad. And something about beating teams that let you have the ball we struggle

[buu1333]

Stats are like bikinis...!

But yeh, I think we all agree we struggle to unlock defences when they sit deep. This is why I'd like to see Bruno and DvdB on the pitch together at the same time - would mean DvdB is the square peg playing off the RHS but both are clever create types that can unpick locks like that.

Mata did ok today but is a player on the wain and we need to look forward now.

hmmm I been thinking about that but I think ugly football will be better rather then this sleak stuff. They started on together on Wednesday, I know formation was bad but I don't think they can play together. I remember when Jose was giving lukaku some kind of praise as he was getting some stick and he said its good to have a strong guy up front in big teams as other small teams will stick back not being aggressive and he can bring it down and lay off and bring players in where they is no space ect ect. Screw that we don't have that don't want it. So maybe very wide instead ? we still doing long balls and maybe more long crosses very ugly, unless someone does a beautiful long ball over the top . I think today although we pinned Everton back and made them sit deep they were still somewhat aggressive trying to get ball back, rather then the mind set of don't get beat even if that means they keep the ball, make sure there is no space don't get dragged out. They is still pressure to the opposing team that has the ball but it a different mind set as a team.

[thebillfella]

Ugly football not acceptable at OT - just ask LvG and Jose. It contravenes the clubs' DNA - United is too big a club with too much history to be compromising.

If the players can't do that then you have to change the players; not just expect the manager to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear

[buu1333]

I think sometimes we are to narrow and doing too short passing standing too close to each other, that was the main problem against team that sit back without being aggressive . That all I wanted to say, I wanted to delete all my above ramble but it seems I cant. ignore my above ramble

[thebillfella]

I get you, not rambling at all; a particular point of view. We have a tradition of playing with wingers and overlapping full backs. Times have changed and teams adapt, but we don't have any of that right now.

We have inside forwards and no. 10 attacking mids / second strikers in the top 4 positions - no natural wingers with no natural inclination to stay out wide and go around the outside of teams to the byline. So there is a tendency to play narrow, and combine that with midfield players who aren't as confident at playing that incisive direct forward ball through to Bruno / Martial / Rashford and you see why sometimes we struggle.

[murf]

Does any top team play with "natural wingers with ... natural inclination to stay out wide and go around the outside of teams to the byline"?

[thebillfella]

Not too many no. That's why I said time have changed and teams adapt!

[buu1333]

I just play a video game and get all my tactical stuff from that. I say conservative as the game says but maybe it got lost in translation and ment cautious. But i was looking it up not from game and right at the bottom was maybe what Jose was talking about https://www.guidetofootball.com/tactics ... ve-styles/ .I just think we struggle against small team that have trained a lot at sit back and cautious, you can also sit back and be aggressive and you can also be not as deep and cautious but we struggle at sit back cautious ,lucky it wont happen a lot and we shouldn't have to worry about it a lot .

[murf]

Not too many no. That's why I said time have changed and teams adapt!

So you are saying "The Man United Way" is dead?

[thebillfella]

Far more to the United Way than wingers as you well know, but the bigger picture United Way definitely went into hibernation under Ed's charge while Moyes, LvG and Jose were managers. Ole trying his best to revive it but hard to do CPR with one hand tied behind your back.

[thebillfella]

Well at least we're not the only ones who are inconsistent...

You know it's a strange season when Southampton and Villa are challenging

[thebillfella]

“There are various ways to look at Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s tenure. Lots of numbers. Lots of opinions. I’ve read plenty of those in the past week. I am never really in the boat that you should be getting rid of a manager this early in the season. He has made his signings, he knows the players and how well they finished last season has given him credit in the bank. United should not make any rash decisions.

A result like this, a tough win at Everton, will give them confidence for after the international break when United have some less daunting fixtures coming up, albeit in a short space of time. Solskjaer got it right and keeping it like that is the key moving forward. Stick with a system that suits your best players, don’t try to crowbar your players into one.”

No, not an ex. United player but ex. bin dipper Danny Murphy. He talks sense.

[murf]

No, not an ex. United player but ... Danny Murphy.

Not ex-United Got to be - I remember him scoring a few winners at Old Trafford!

[Darbyand]

. I am never really in the boat that you should be getting rid of a manager this early in the season. He has made his signings....

The team that started on Saturday was one that could have done so in February. The summer was an almost total waste of time.

I see Deschamps has been moaning on behalf of Pogba. I think we've been through every formation, every combination of players to get the best out of him. He's either not as good as he thinks he is and/or he just can't be arsed. Can't wait for him.to leave, hopefully next summer when he'll only have a year on his contract.

[thebillfella]

The team that started on Saturday was one that could have done so in February. The summer was an almost total waste of time.

Agreed. This is the main reason I argue Ole hasn't been properly backed by the board this summer - everyone else around United has been able to improve their starting XI over the summer bar United.

At this stage in his Liverpool career Klopp had still not gained as many points / wins as Ole has and had no trophies yet but had been able to replace at least 3/4 of his starting XI with only Allison and Fabinho to add.

[thebillfella]

I see Deschamps has been moaning on behalf of Pogba. I think we've been through every formation, every combination of players to get the best out of him. He's either not as good as he thinks he is and/or he just can't be arsed. Can't wait for him.to leave, hopefully next summer when he'll only have a year on his contract.

Agreed. He's had more than enough chances and far more chances than he would have been given just about anywhere else IMO. the team just looks and feels better balanced without him in, regardless of his ability going forward when he's on the ball (which we just have never seen enough of bar a few games you can count with one hand). He'll be better off in Serie A where he has more time to do his customary walk back after loosing the ball!

[murf]

The team that started on Saturday was one that could have done so in February. The summer was an almost total waste of time.

Agreed. This is the main reason I argue Ole hasn't been properly backed by the board this summer - everyone else around United has been able to improve their starting XI over the summer bar United.

At this stage in his Liverpool career Klopp had still not gained as many points / wins as Ole has and had no trophies yet but had been able to replace at least 3/4 of his starting XI with only Allison and Fabinho to add.

How many of those Liverpool additions were free or cheap (i.e. Glazer/Woowar friendly)?

I'd say a lot. How many like that has Ole identified and brought in?

[Darbyand]

Go on, name them.

(That's a genuine question, I'm not being snide)

[murf]

Go on, name them.

(That's a genuine question, I'm not being snide)

Top of my head... Matip - free, Robertson -7m(ish), Milner, even Salah and Mane weren't silly money.

Off to check properly...

Karius 4.7m
Matip free
Robertson 10m
Klavan 4.2m (weeded out some dross but Klavan and Karius did a job)
Solanke 4m (bargain if he'd improved, sure we still made a big profit)
(Milner not listed so probably not Klopp)

Wijnaldum 25m
Salah 43m
Mane 30m
Above 3 don't count as bargains maybe but have been proven value since. Admittedly the list has proven shorter than expected but I also credit him with IMPROVING the likes of TAA and Gomez as well as more experienced players like Henderson and Firmino (and his own buys like Salah and Mane)

He also flogged Coutinho to fund the above and still only has a total nett spend just over 100m.

[Darbyand]

That list just tells me Liverpool have done very little trading at the bargain level but have been superb at buying and especially selling medium to high value players. United have been average at the buying and mediocre at the selling. For every bit of credit Michael Edwards gets at LFC I think it's fair to put the opposite against Woodward/Judge etc rather than at Ole's door.

Whether he's a good manager dealing with what he's got.... the jury is of course massively out. If I could wave a magic wand and Poch would be the manager tomorrow with minimal upheaval, I'd do it in a flash.

[thebillfella]

Probably missing Alex Oxlade Chamberlain (£35m) and a certain VVD (£75m) off the list there murf but yes concure with darbyand's comments. The difference here is that, like Klopp, Ole has identified what / who he needs but, unlike for Klopp, they haven't all been brought in during the same timeframe (only Alisson and to a lesser extent Fabinho to add to make the league winning team - I think Ole still needs the 3 we have been discussing for some time to be challenging again).

And yes, as I said at the time and been consistent about, would I have chosen Ole - no - and do I think Woodward was too hasty in appointing him permanently - yes. But he did it so he deserves to be given a chance / time and deserves our support rather than turning on him the moment the going get's tough - we leave that lack of class to other teams! This year may be the tipping point for that, but something doesn't really sit right with me when that tipping point comes after he hasn't been given all the tools others expect / benefit from to give it a fair crack.

Poch is clearly popular with his players and a clear candidate; the only question mark comes with the lack of trophies to date but how many should he have won with Southampton and Spurs? Allegri also available still but would his approach be the right fit?

After that, there are very few that are up to the world class level up there with Pep and Klopp that would be worth changing for (and there is the crux when it comes to people saying he needs to go - who would be a significant improvement rather than more of the same?) - Naglesmann, ten Haag maybe but both are gambles to a degree?

[murf]

Probably missing Alex Oxlade Chamberlain (£35m) and a certain VVD (£75m) off the list there murf

Was a 'before VVD and Alisson' list.

I missed Ox off because I thought we overpaid - BUT that was only because he was running down his contract so still overall a bargain spotted by Klopp (or would have been with less bad luck with injuries)

[thebillfella]

Ok fair enough. While it pains me to say it, it does rather demonstrate how much better Fenway Sports Group has run its recruitment process over the Glazers in the post Fergie / Gill era.

[murf]

Ok fair enough. While it pains me to say it, it does rather demonstrate how much better Fenway Sports Group has run its recruitment process over the Glazers in the post Fergie / Gill era.

Hard to say how much is luck, how much is good recruitment practice and how much is Klopp's "genius" at developing players when it comes to evaluating the relatively high success rate of the mid to high price buys (eg Alisson, VVD, Salah, Mane etc) let alone the cheap bargain spotting. Personally I'd say the recruitment process is a large part but you never know - eg stories say they wanted Sarr but couldn't get him so got Jota as second choice and that has worked well - luck? Or would Sarr have been better? Or good work to have him in top 2 on list? Or are the stories complete and utter *******?

[eastcentral1]

Klopp has a very clear footballing philosophy, covering the role of every player on the pitch, and FSG have put in place a very scientific recruitment process, which is able to identify players who fit that philosophy. I'm sure Jota wasn't purchased just because he was available. He will have been identified as fulfilling particular statistical criteria (even if he wasn't first choice).

I'm not really sure what OGS's philosophy is, other than being quick in the transition, playing the ball into the channels and putting more attacking players on the pitch when you need a goal.

[thebillfella]

I think (and no-one knows for sure as we aren't in the dressing room, but interpolated from interviews etc) Ole's "philosophy" is virtually identical to Klopp's in terms of how he wants to play in terms of high intensity high press attacking football rather than get a result at all costs anti-football (not sure how often you've seen him insist on "playing the ball into the channels" but that's a new one on me TBH!).

That is the two teams don't look the same right now is a multitude of factors including quality and mentality of individuals, confidence, attitudes in the dressing room and so on (and yes, the respect the manager has of his players, how willing they aret o run through brick walls for him and the ability to get that extra few % out of all of them that can make the difference).

What you choose to focus on as the reason for the inconsistencies will of course be based on you particular point of view.

[hancockjr]

Is Fernandes considered to be a Solskjaer signing and (either way) on what basis ?