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Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by Darbyand »

Darbyand wrote: 16 Aug 2020, 21:52
Darbyand wrote: 20 Jul 2020, 12:21 Horrible performance from the CBs yesterday. Assuming Maguire is here to stay we need an upgrade on Lindelof. Your average League 2 CB would have got goalside of Giroud yesterday (and the player for the Southampton equaliser). He's got no pace, loses the majority of his headers and physical battles. If budgets are tight I think the likes of Ake or Mings could do a better job.
Mings it is then. Seriously though, Lindelof is garbage. Must be replaced as number 2 CB choice.
I swear we're going to sign Mings one day:

https://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-tran ... ky-defence

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by thebillfella »

What is it with all the racist abuse on social media right now - seems to be on the increase? Hope it isn't United fans directing this at their own, but it is of course totally unacceptable whatever the context.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56065243

Martial was awful again yesterday and doesn't seem to ever want to grasp the chances / opportunities that Ole gives him. Has fallen behind Cavani and Greenwood never mind Rashford in the pecking order for me now, but regardless of performance he shouldn't be receiving that sort of abuse.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by Darbyand »

Social media is always going to be a sewer for as long as people can set up multiple anonymous accounts. Not sure there's much desire for change on behalf of the providers when it makes their user figures look good.

As for the game, Ddg rooted to his spot on any cross into the box, Lindelof given the rag doll treatment by a vaguely physical striker. We'll keep conceding that kind of goal with the same players there.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by thebillfella »

Yeh, the same problems with personnel, that we've recognised for years now, persist at centre back and the need for a world class addition there still remains (as is the need for a creative Pogba replacement and RWF) if we are to be serious title challengers rather than top 4 also-rans.

At CB, Maguire is slow, Lindelof too easily bullied in the air, Bailly made of glass, and Ole just doesn't fancy Tuanzebe. At CM, Pogba is inconsistent, Fred and McTominay are not creative enough against deeper opposition, Matic is on the wain and Ole doesn't fancy DvdB as a no. 6 or 8 (acknowledging he is never going to usurp Bruno in the no. 10 role). The attackers can't keep getting the defence out of jail every game - defences win titles and all that.

No-one really looks natural at RW; lots of square pegs in round holes with the team probably looking best balanced with Greenwood out there and Rashford at LW and Cavani up top. So I can't understand why Ole has such a blind spot for Martial other than to try and keep him happy.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by blahblah »

Yep to all, especially Maguire who has avoided a lot of flak because the other CB is usually easier to criticise...

Bruno seems to be playing further forward, almost as a 2nd CF, which has accentuated the linking problem without Pogba.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by Bob Newhart »

That was a Van Ghoulesque performance, yesterday. Horrific.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by blahblah »

Bob Newhart wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 15:28 That was a Van Ghoulesque performance, yesterday. Horrific.
Just part of being consistently inconsistent 😉

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by thebillfella »

blahblah wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 15:25 Yep to all, especially Maguire who has avoided a lot of flak because the other CB is usually easier to criticise...
Again, I don't think Maguire has done that badly tbh - he has made the odd mistake here and there but so has every centre back in the league.

You find a partner that compliments him well and he'll be fine as he doesn't get bullied in the air like Lindelof does and he does organise the back line and is an ever present. He needs a Rio or a VVD next to him, someone who can cover him with pace and is also physical.

Ironically, I think that, alongside a Rio or VVD, Lindelof would also probably be fine for most prem games albeit just not quite as solid or strong aerially as Maguire - the problem is that Maguire and Lindelof don't compliment each other at all well primarily because they lack the confidence to get themselves and the team further up the pitch due to shortcomings with their pace.

I don't think you need to replace them both - just get that one top class CB in there that compliments Maguire (and Lindelof could be Maguire's understudy / backup).
Last edited by thebillfella on 16 Feb 2021, 00:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by thebillfella »

blahblah wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 15:25 Bruno seems to be playing further forward, almost as a 2nd CF, which has accentuated the linking problem without Pogba.
But that isn't a problem with Bruno in the no. 10 role (when they play badly - let's not forget it wasn't a problem up to a few games ago given that they were / are top scorers in the Prem!!!); it's a problem with playing 2 defensive mids without that creative edge in front of a centre back pairing lacking confidence to press the team higher sooner.

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Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by jacksosi »

thebillfella wrote:
blahblah wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 15:25 Yep to all, especially Maguire who has avoided a lot of flak because the other CB is usually easier to criticise...
Again, I don't think Maguire has done that badly tbh - he has made the odd mistake here and there but so has every centre back in the league.

You find a partner that compliments him well and he'll be fine as he doesn't get bullied in the air like Lindelof does and he does organise the back line and is an ever present. He needs a Rio or a VVD next to him, someone who can cover him with pace and is also physical.

Ironically, I think that, alongside a Rio or VVD, Lindelof would also probably be fine for most prem games albeit just not quite as solid or strong aerially as Maguire - the problem is that Maguire and Lindelof don't compliment each other at all well primarily because they lack the confidence to get themselves and the team further up the pitch due to shortcomings with their pace.

I don't think you need to replace them both - just get that one top class CB in there that compliments Maguire (and Lindelof could be Maguire's understudy / backup).
I think you should be giving a nod to your source there...that’s almost word for word G Nev’s MNF analysis of the issue last night Image

He also said that as MU are probably not going to win the league this year, but they should make top 4, they need to give Henderson a run of 10+ games to determine if they think he is good enough to be their No1 next season or if they need to buy a GK.

Great analysis as always from the GN/JC pairing. I actually watched the pre and post match chat, but watched a film during the game ImageImage

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by forestfan »

thebillfella wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 23:52
blahblah wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 15:25 Yep to all, especially Maguire who has avoided a lot of flak because the other CB is usually easier to criticise...
Again, I don't think Maguire has done that badly tbh - he has made the odd mistake here and there but so has every centre back in the league.

You find a partner that compliments him well and he'll be fine as he doesn't get bullied in the air like Lindelof does and he does organise the back line and is an ever present. He needs a Rio or a VVD next to him, someone who can cover him with pace and is also physical.

Ironically, I think that, alongside a Rio or VVD, Lindelof would also probably be fine for most prem games albeit just not quite as solid or strong aerially as Maguire - the problem is that Maguire and Lindelof don't compliment each other at all well primarily because they lack the confidence to get themselves and the team further up the pitch due to shortcomings with their pace.

I don't think you need to replace them both - just get that one top class CB in there that compliments Maguire (and Lindelof could be Maguire's understudy / backup).
I agree centre-back play is a lot about partnerships, teams (mostly City) have spent £40m plus on a defender who has flopped, whereas sometimes an unheralded player or two can form a solid pairing (Hyypia and Henchoz for Liverpool is the example that always comes to mind, and perhaps Ronny Johnsen alongside the more celebrated Stam for United).

There’s no guarantee of a “plug and play” solution however much you spend, but the one recipe for disaster at the position is instability, enforced or otherwise.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by Darbyand »

Maguire looks like a different player alongside Bailly. If only he could stay fit.

Would be interesting to see Bailly and Lindelof, if Maguire was out for any length of time, see if Neville has a point. If I were a centre forward I'd still be getting on Lindelof's shoulder and roughing him up a bit, regardless of partner.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by thebillfella »

jacksosi wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 07:36 I think you should be giving a nod to your source there...that’s almost word for word G Nev’s MNF analysis of the issue last night Image

He also said that as MU are probably not going to win the league this year, but they should make top 4, they need to give Henderson a run of 10+ games to determine if they think he is good enough to be their No1 next season or if they need to buy a GK.

Great analysis as always from the GN/JC pairing. I actually watched the pre and post match chat, but watched a film during the game ImageImage
Ha ha, I think Gary should be giving this thread a nod as his source as we've pretty much been the same thing on here for a few seasons now! :wink: :D

An interesting point ref using the opportunity up to the end of the season to see if Henderson is up to the task as no. 1. The problem he'll have of course is that he still won't have a confident and stable CB partnership in front of him so could become quite exposed and lose confidence himself if not carefully managed!

I think what is interesting is seeing the impact losing VVD has had not only on the confidence of those remaining at the back at Liverpool (the other CBs options haven't looked good enough and Alisson is suddenly looking very shaky - almost to DDG howler proportions!) but also the impact it seemingly has had to their attack - are they equally not pushing the team higher up the pitch as quickly due to fear of being caught by pace on the break?

There's no denying that losing one key player has seemingly had a huge impact on their performance and consistency? I would suggest it is more than just coincidence, and there are many similarities / root causes between the clubs and their inconsistencies right now.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by thebillfella »

Darbyand wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 10:12 Maguire looks like a different player alongside Bailly. If only he could stay fit.

Would be interesting to see Bailly and Lindelof, if Maguire was out for any length of time, see if Neville has a point. If I were a centre forward I'd still be getting on Lindelof's shoulder and roughing him up a bit, regardless of partner.
I think the quote from the link you shared earlier says it all: "Lindelof's problem is Maguire, and Maguire's problem is Lindelof"

I think forestfan is right to suggest both partners don't need to be world class superstars if they complement each other well with their attributes - Stam / Johnson and Hyppia / Henchoz are great examples, as are Terry / Carvalho and Bruce / Pallister.
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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by blahblah »

re Liverpool: im not so sure this is all down to VvD, but Henderson playing CB as they are missing his goals. The middle 3 seem impotent, and often chipped in with important goals according to my aged memory. So I'd out it down to a lack if depth at the position and having at least 2 of the 3 crocked.

But yes, a solid CB Pairing is a good place to start re having a good side.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by forestfan »

thebillfella wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 10:56
Darbyand wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 10:12 Maguire looks like a different player alongside Bailly. If only he could stay fit.

Would be interesting to see Bailly and Lindelof, if Maguire was out for any length of time, see if Neville has a point. If I were a centre forward I'd still be getting on Lindelof's shoulder and roughing him up a bit, regardless of partner.
I think the quote from the link you shared earlier says it all: "Lindelof's problem is Maguire, and Maguire's problem is Lindelof"

I think forestfan is right to suggest both partners don't need to be world class superstars if they complement each other well with their attributes - Stam / Johnson and Hyppia / Henchoz are great examples, as are Terry / Carvalho and Bruce / Pallister.
I suppose Terry and Carvalho were at least approaching world class as individuals, and had some decent competition/backup... and Pallister was expensive by the standards of those days, though took a while to settle. Not sure what Bruce cost, but still remarkable he never won an England cap.

And yes, losing Henderson (and Fabinho, when fit) from midfield is as big a blow as not having the first choice CBs, as you’re weakening two key areas substantially.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by thebillfella »

blahblah wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:03 re Liverpool: im not so sure this is all down to VvD, but Henderson playing CB as they are missing his goals. The middle 3 seem impotent, and often chipped in with important goals according to my aged memory. So I'd out it down to a lack if depth at the position and having at least 2 of the 3 crocked.

But yes, a solid CB Pairing is a good place to start re having a good side.
And the great sides tend to have a solid consistent CB pairing and keeper working in synergy - VDS / Rio / Vidic, Cech / Terry / Carvalho etc

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by blahblah »

Yep. Even Pep tends to stick to a favoured pair.....

I take the GK point as a given.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by forestfan »

Before my time, but Shilton/Burns/Lloyd... Cloughie knew where to start, buy the best keeper in the land and rescue two uncompromising central defenders from the scrapheap!

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by forestfan »

blahblah wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:16 I take the GK point as a given.
Shay? :wink:

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by blahblah »

Wasn't Burns a forward before Clough moved him back?

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by forestfan »

blahblah wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:17 Wasn't Burns a forward before Clough moved him back?
Apparently started as defender, converted to striker then moved back!

The “defender turned striker” seems to have gone out of the game these days... though remember Billy Davies doing it to prove a point that he didn’t like any of the strikers he had and wanted funds for a new one.

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by thebillfella »

forestfan wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:13
And yes, losing Henderson (and Fabinho, when fit) from midfield is as big a blow as not having the first choice CBs, as you’re weakening two key areas substantially.
Maybe, but they seemed to be scoring alright when Henderson was missing at the start of the season while VVD was there? Taking him out of midfield and into defence while VVD has been injured was a bit of a double whammy to be fair

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by thebillfella »

forestfan wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:16 Before my time, but Shilton/Burns/Lloyd... Cloughie knew where to start, buy the best keeper in the land and rescue two uncompromising central defenders from the scrapheap!
Defo before my time!!!

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by forestfan »

thebillfella wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:34
forestfan wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:16 Before my time, but Shilton/Burns/Lloyd... Cloughie knew where to start, buy the best keeper in the land and rescue two uncompromising central defenders from the scrapheap!
Defo before my time!!!
I think the majority on here are old enough to remember...

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by blahblah »

forestfan wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:42
thebillfella wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:34
forestfan wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:16 Before my time, but Shilton/Burns/Lloyd... Cloughie knew where to start, buy the best keeper in the land and rescue two uncompromising central defenders from the scrapheap!
Defo before my time!!!
I think the majority on here are old enough to remember...
K'off 😢

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by forestfan »

blahblah wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:43
forestfan wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:42
thebillfella wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:34
forestfan wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:16 Before my time, but Shilton/Burns/Lloyd... Cloughie knew where to start, buy the best keeper in the land and rescue two uncompromising central defenders from the scrapheap!
Defo before my time!!!
I think the majority on here are old enough to remember...
K'off 😢
I think there’s plenty ahead of you in the age stakes... maybe one or two who remember England winning the World Cup! I remember a FISO age survey once, can probably dig that out and add a decade or so to the average...

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by thebillfella »

Started watching probably in the last year of the Dave Sexton era (but not that closely until Big Ron took over as I don't recall Spain '82 at the time) so just missed Forest's golden period. Remember Shilton but probably from his post-Forest days. Other than that I think I know of Kenny Burns from being the one photographed with his nuts hanging out of his shorts!

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Re: Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2020/21

Post by forestfan »

thebillfella wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 11:52 Started watching probably in the last year of the Dave Sexton era so just missed Forest's golden period. Remember Shilton but probably from his post-Forest days. Other than that I think I know of Kenny Burns from being the one photographed with his nuts hanging out of his shorts!
So you are slightly older than me, as I only remember from Racist Ron onwards (at United, not Forest!) In fact I think only being taken to a Forest match as a youngster saved me from the dark side of being a non-local United supporter... still always had a soft spot for them until they started winning everything like Liverpool used to before them.

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