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Mo Salah and penalties

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Britinus
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Mo Salah and penalties

Post by Britinus »

Just watched an interesting subject on Premier League Morning soccer, doubt that it's shown in the UK since it's called soccer :lol:
Anyway, it was about Salah and diving, incredible how many penalties he get's awarded through diving, about time ref's got wise to him, not sure how he's getting away with it, some were so blatant, ie the one against Arsenal. Seemed to dive when he had no chance of scoring, such a cheat.
I presume it's been a talking point in UK :?:

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Zimmerman
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Re: Mo Salah and penalties

Post by Zimmerman »

From a Spurs fan too 😂

Well he didn’t get the one yesterday... so maybe they are.

There is some attention being piqued in the U.K. (there was a soft one given against Newcastle and then a legit one against Brighton)?

What I would say in his defence... is that he has stayed on his feet a lot when he ‘could have gone down’ I’m wondering if he’s been instructed not to any more - because refs don’t seem capable of making that judgement themselves. Never struck me as a diver or going down easily until recent weeks.

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Re: Mo Salah and penalties

Post by murf »

Firstly, I don't think I've ever seen him dive (ie go down when not touched).

He has gone down under some relatively minor contact a few times lately (worst probably yesterday) but I think he has missed out on more genuine (if soft) penalties because of this new reputation than he has had wrongly awarded.

Hopefully VAR will reduce these arguments (and the perceived need to stress you have been fouled by an exaggerated fall) but then we'll just move on to where the line in the sand is for how bad a foul needs to be. eg Sakho did kick Salah yesterday. Pretty sure it wasn't enough to knock anyone ever and arguably not enough for a foul but there have been some genuine fouls on Salah that have led (or not) to so-called soft penalties that people have argued about. Will VAR end this? Also why should defenders be allowed to nibble at or grab strikers and hinder them? A foul is a foul.

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Britinus
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Re: Mo Salah and penalties

Post by Britinus »

quite possibly the show and pundits were biased, they certainly made it look worse than it possibly was. and yes from a Spurs fan :lol: mind you I've seen Harry take a few dives too.

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Re: Mo Salah and penalties

Post by liquidfootball2 »

Britinus wrote:quite possibly the show and pundits were biased, they certainly made it look worse than it possibly was. and yes from a Spurs fan Image mind you I've seen Harry take a few dives too.
Former Premier League referee Keith Hackett has written about it in the UK national press today..

Mohamed Salah is one of the best players in the Premier League - a wonderfully gifted goalscorer whose efforts could well end up ending his club's long wait for a title.

But there is a less savoury side to his football which is in danger of spoiling his reputation - the tendency to collapse to the ground at the slightest of contact in the penalty area.

There have been some close calls in recent weeks, with Salah earning penalties against Newcastle and Brighton, but against Crystal Palace on Saturday there was simply no doubt that he dived after Mamadou Sakho flicked out a leg in the box. Regardless of whether there was a tiny bit of contact, one of the factors in determining an act of simulation is the exaggeration used in the reaction, and nobody would dispute that Salah's fall - and the delay which preceded it - was out of proportion to whatever contact there might have been.

He should have been booked for simulation, and I'm disappointed the referee, Jon Moss, failed to take action.

One of the important tasks a referee manager has is to raise the awareness of this type of offence.

This is done at the meetings of referees where video clips are carefully analysed and ways of improving detection and punishment determined. It is hard to believe that Salah's habit of tumbling over would not have come up at these meetings, given the frequency with which it has been happening.

One of the aspects of Moss's performance on Saturday which disappointed me most was that he made no attempt to improve the viewing angle, and get a better sight of Salah once he had received the ball. 

I am not encouraging referees to guess, and it is also important that players are not pre-judged in situations simply because they may have done wrong in the past. But at the moment referees are letting themselves down by not sanctioning a player who is building a reputation as a diver.


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Re: Mo Salah and penalties

Post by hancockjr »

I don’t disagree with that but refreees simply have to be prepared to give penalties when a player is fouled and tries to stay on his feet - it’s still a foul.

I’m not sure I’ve seen such a decision ever, and it means the attacker is pretty much obliged to fall if he feels he’s been fouled, or risk being unbalanced and losing the opportunity without getting the deserved penalty.

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Re: Mo Salah and penalties

Post by liquidfootball2 »

Yes I agree with you, the refereeing we have in the premier league atm isn't at the best level, in fact it's falling way short of it.

Andre Marriner and the blatant penalty on Sterling just this afternoon the latest high profile howler, although his line official was far nearer and therefore far more culpable. The truth is poor decisions are so commonplace and frequent within almost all matches that players are developing strategies to cope with it.

Referees need help to at least cut out the real clangers, diving or having to dive is just another byproduct of refereeing incompetence imo.

VAR will improve matters and hopefully cut our the howlers but it is by no means 100% accurate and shouldn't be expected to be. It will improve the percentage of correct decisions not get the close ones right all the time.

Close decisions could still be incorrectly given and penalties disputed but howlers might be eradicated.

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Re: Mo Salah and penalties

Post by Zimmerman »

They’ll hopefully resolve the howlers.
Wonder how it will affect the ones where a player tries to stay on his feet though.

Does a ref just give them all and wait for them to get reviewed? Presumably if there is some sort of performance measuring this approach doesn’t do his stats any good.

Or do the VAR guys look at this in the background/parallel and then draw the ref back to it (seem to think that was meant to be the approach in the World Cup).

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Britinus
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Re: Mo Salah and penalties

Post by Britinus »

Another point made in the show was that when a player is genuinely fouled he instinctively puts his arms down to lessen the fall to the ground and when looking for a penalty he puts his arms up to attract the ref's attention, " look ref I've been fouled" . They showed a couple of instances of this, interesting, never realized this, shall watch out for it in future.

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Re: Mo Salah and penalties

Post by liquidfootball2 »

Zimmerman wrote:They’ll hopefully resolve the howlers.
Wonder how it will affect the ones where a player tries to stay on his feet though.

Does a ref just give them all and wait for them to get reviewed? Presumably if there is some sort of performance measuring this approach doesn’t do his stats any good.

Or do the VAR guys look at this in the background/parallel and then draw the ref back to it (seem to think that was meant to be the approach in the World Cup).
It can only help cut out the real howlers imo, it will be helpful and may give a guide on others but the match will still need to be refereed properly, VAR won't compensate for some of the substandard officials we have today.

It will for instance see the Sterling one or clear misconduct, even if the player stays on his feet, but it's fully open to human error too, and therefore clear ones will also be missed.

Human error is something the current crop of referees seem to excel at.

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Re: Mo Salah and penalties

Post by hancockjr »

liquidfootball2 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2019, 15:30
Zimmerman wrote:They’ll hopefully resolve the howlers.
Wonder how it will affect the ones where a player tries to stay on his feet though.

Does a ref just give them all and wait for them to get reviewed? Presumably if there is some sort of performance measuring this approach doesn’t do his stats any good.

Or do the VAR guys look at this in the background/parallel and then draw the ref back to it (seem to think that was meant to be the approach in the World Cup).
It can only help cut out the real howlers imo, it will be helpful and may give a guide on others but the match will still need to be refereed properly, VAR won't compensate for some of the substandard officials we have today.

It will for instance see the Sterling one or clear misconduct, even if the player stays on his feet, but it's fully open to human error too, and therefore clear ones will also be missed.

Human error is something the current crop of referees seem to excel at.
Would it see the Sterling one if the ball didn't go dead? Does anyone have a copy of the protocol they will use?

There's a downside to VAR as well. In rugby you rarely get a try at international level that isn't checked for something (or it seems that way) whihc genuinely takes from the spectacle and enjoyment of the game, yet major decisions are still incorrect, and I'd say rugby is more naturally suited to VAR.

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Re: Mo Salah and penalties

Post by liquidfootball2 »


hancockjr wrote:
liquidfootball2 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2019, 15:30
Zimmerman wrote:They’ll hopefully resolve the howlers.
Wonder how it will affect the ones where a player tries to stay on his feet though.

Does a ref just give them all and wait for them to get reviewed? Presumably if there is some sort of performance measuring this approach doesn’t do his stats any good.

Or do the VAR guys look at this in the background/parallel and then draw the ref back to it (seem to think that was meant to be the approach in the World Cup).
It can only help cut out the real howlers imo, it will be helpful and may give a guide on others but the match will still need to be refereed properly, VAR won't compensate for some of the substandard officials we have today.

It will for instance see the Sterling one or clear misconduct, even if the player stays on his feet, but it's fully open to human error too, and therefore clear ones will also be missed.

Human error is something the current crop of referees seem to excel at.
Would it see the Sterling one if the ball didn't go dead? Does anyone have a copy of the protocol they will use?

There's a downside to VAR as well. In rugby you rarely get a try at international level that isn't checked for something (or it seems that way) whihc genuinely takes from the spectacle and enjoyment of the game, yet major decisions are still incorrect, and I'd say rugby is more naturally suited to VAR.

While atm it's being used in selected FA Cup matches but not currently in the premier league, concurrent trials are being run in some premier league matches, presumably best practice will be sought and what works best incorporated into any future guidelines.

It will give a higher percentage of correct decisions and is desperately needed imo.

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