Manchester United Seasonal Blog 2018/19 - Ole Ole Ole Ole

Post by **blahblah** » 21 Apr 2019, 19:41

How would it go down if he dropped those that want out for the rest of the season and said that is why? "X wants out and the only reason that he will be here next season is if he can not find another Club"

Post by **forestfan** » 21 Apr 2019, 20:18

Arsenal handed them a lifeline by losing at home to Palace... who actually wants one of those top four spots? Eden Hazard, or “Chelsea” as he also calls himself on occasions, has a chance to stake a claim tomorrow, with the others having failed to take so much as a point between them this weekend.

Hard to see United raising their game to do anything against City, which could put paid to Liverpool’s last hope of the title. The problems clearly go well beyond who is manager though, maybe Ince(?) was right in saying anyone who could put a smile on their faces after Mourinho could have achieved that new manager bounce. They may as well have appointed a comedian, like the voters of Ukraine...

Post by **eastcentral1** » 21 Apr 2019, 20:35

thebillfella wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 19:32 Haven't seen the game yet - not sure I want to now to be honest!

Comments from Ole which speak volumes:

Solskjaer: ‘I want my team to be the hardest-working team in the league. That’s what we were under Sir Alex, that’s what we’ve always been, you’ve got Giggsy, Becks, Gary Neville, Denis Irwin, whatever the talent you’ve got you’ve ran more than anyone, every single week, put in a shift up and down that pitch for your teammates.

I don't think all this banging on about the past is the way forward for Utd.

Post by **eastcentral1** » 21 Apr 2019, 20:35

double post

Post by **blahblah** » 21 Apr 2019, 20:37

Maybe not directly, but talented players with determination (ie focused running around when out of possession) is the only way to win?

Post by **eastcentral1** » 21 Apr 2019, 20:44

Yes. But he doesn't need to keep invoking the spectre of the class of whenever to make that point.

Post by **blahblah** » 21 Apr 2019, 20:47

Yep, I was agreeing - but I'd guess that the faithful "love it"

Post by **murf** » 21 Apr 2019, 20:49

blahblah wrote:Yep, I was agreeing - but I'd guess that the faithful "love it"

So did the players. For about a month.

Post by **thebillfella** » 21 Apr 2019, 22:18

I think you're missing the point, which is that no-matter how talented you think you are the best teams are the ones who work the hardest. The work-rate has really dropped off in the last few weeks and the performances have suffered. He just used previous players as examples, but could easily have used some current City or Liverpool players to demonstrate,

The problem for the players now is that they've used up the "it's the manager's fault" cards too many times and the fans are turning on the players (outside of the ground) who have stopped putting in a shift.

Only a few such as DDG, Shaw, Lindelof, Dalot, McTominay and Rashford are free of criticism (as well as the Equaliser) and no-one is blaming Ole for this who has the fans support. There wouldn't be many who would object to a few of the youngsters being played instead of those who look like they have downed tools or are playing hardball over new deals (so yes including Pogba and DDG).

Post by **blahblah** » 21 Apr 2019, 22:29

Rashford too?

Then there is the state of the squad, Sanchez was pointed out as a strange buy on here, but may end up as the fulcrum next season if enough are shifted.

I was in Lpool for the Souness years and until the Ole run it was very similar. Then he flunked an FAC Cup which got him.longer to trash the Club.

How many of their current lot did Llopp sign?

Post by **murf** » 21 Apr 2019, 23:47

A good manager gets his players to buy into his ethos be that running around a lot, Sarriball, bus parking, whatever. I'm not sure what Ole's ethos is - but they are still playing like Jose's team with low possession and counter attacking - which all seems a bit dated (for a top team) to be honest. Maybe the players just aren't impressed by his ideas or they aren't comprehensive enough to fully work. Can't be much fun to play like that especially for the more skilled and/or attacking stars.

Post by **Zimmerman** » 22 Apr 2019, 06:39

blahblah wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 22:29 How many of their current lot did Llopp sign?

Assuming you meant Klopp...

£384m spent (not net), 6 transfer windows.

Keita
Fabinho
Alisson
Salah
Robertson
van Dijk
Matip
Mane
Wijnaldum

Shaqiri
Ox

Solanke
Karius
Klavan
Manninger

Post by **blahblah** » 22 Apr 2019, 08:08

I'll toss in TAA and Gomez as young kids when he blooded them and that list is only missing Bobby, Milner and Henderson of the relevant players ie not Moreno.

MU have to do similar imho.

Post by **Zimmerman** » 22 Apr 2019, 08:41

Its a hard balancing act; reminding them what is expected versus someone continually telling you “we were better than you”.

We’ve probably all worked with someone who bangs on about how great the place was in the old days. Imagine that in the context of football (especially sensitive modern day footballers & even throw in the fact that some of these guys are literally a different generation). Again, as a grumpy middle aged guy, I know there is a certain vibe to the young pups at work and their seeming want it all sense of entitlement attitude (or at least there’s this perception from the older ones... which every single generation casts upon the next).

Post by **forestfan** » 22 Apr 2019, 09:10

Perhaps it’s inevitable to some extent, but clubs struggling to recapture former glories frequently seem to have former players and managers casting a shadow over the place, whether that be actively in employed roles, or just as pundits whose view on every failure makes the headlines.

It’s always tempting to appoint a club playing legend as manager, or keep great managers around at boardroom or ambassadorial level, and knowing the club might have its advantages (and help get the fans onside initially) but doesn’t in itself make someone right for the job.

Post by **blahblah** » 22 Apr 2019, 09:18

I think we can all agree that Pogba knows that the team is me ta and is as manageable as Ballotelli et al.

I'm sure Jose has more than a wry smile which he can't get rid of, not that he was anything like innocent....

Post by **Darbyand** » 22 Apr 2019, 10:40

forestfan wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 20:18
Hard to see United raising their game to do anything against City, which could put paid to Liverpool’s last hope of the title. The problems clearly go well beyond who is manager though, maybe Ince(?) was right in saying anyone who could put a smile on their faces after Mourinho could have achieved that new manager bounce.

I am amazed that the last couple of pages are about the manager. I think this cult of the manager thing has spread into English football the last few years, you see it on Sky when they do a pre-season preview with a manager composite, or they're publicising a game and it's "Klopp vs Guardiola" or similar with the players a sideshow. United's problems are chronic and widespread - we've got a Chelsea-esque bunch of players turning up or not on a whim, and we're even more of a basket-case club off the pitch. Maybe the solution IS to change the manager every two years....we all know there's a better way but it's not likely to happen any time soon for United.

Post by **forestfan** » 22 Apr 2019, 10:54

Darbyand wrote: ↑22 Apr 2019, 10:40
forestfan wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 20:18
Hard to see United raising their game to do anything against City, which could put paid to Liverpool’s last hope of the title. The problems clearly go well beyond who is manager though, maybe Ince(?) was right in saying anyone who could put a smile on their faces after Mourinho could have achieved that new manager bounce.
I am amazed that the last couple of pages are about the manager. I think this cult of the manager thing has spread into English football the last few years, you see it on Sky when they do a pre-season preview with a manager composite, or they're publicising a game and it's "Klopp vs Guardiola" or similar with the players a sideshow. United's problems are chronic and widespread - we've got a Chelsea-esque bunch of players turning up or not on a whim, and we're even more of a basket-case club off the pitch. Maybe the solution IS to change the manager every two years....we all know there's a better way but it's not likely to happen any time soon for United.

Those managers have transformed their clubs and brought in a winning culture that goes beyond individual players - perhaps it’s a necessity these days, unless you have a player like Messi or Ronaldo filling that inspiration/figurehead role, but of course they couldn’t have done it without stable and financially powerful ownership.

Ferguson did paper over the cracks that the Glazer regime set in motion in his last few years, but part of it was the “success breeds success” formula. Once that aura was lost they just became another one of the big clubs, without the investment and dynamism of some of their challengers. Still, the share price keeps going up so Woodward is doing a great job. As has been said before, what does losing a few football matches matter when you’re selling lots of branded noodles in Myanmar?

Post by **Tacalabala** » 22 Apr 2019, 11:34

Darbyand wrote: ↑22 Apr 2019, 10:40
forestfan wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 20:18
Hard to see United raising their game to do anything against City, which could put paid to Liverpool’s last hope of the title. The problems clearly go well beyond who is manager though, maybe Ince(?) was right in saying anyone who could put a smile on their faces after Mourinho could have achieved that new manager bounce.
I am amazed that the last couple of pages are about the manager. I think this cult of the manager thing has spread into English football the last few years, you see it on Sky when they do a pre-season preview with a manager composite, or they're publicising a game and it's "Klopp vs Guardiola" or similar with the players a sideshow. United's problems are chronic and widespread - we've got a Chelsea-esque bunch of players turning up or not on a whim, and we're even more of a basket-case club off the pitch. Maybe the solution IS to change the manager every two years....we all know there's a better way but it's not likely to happen any time soon for United.

From the broadcaster's perspective, they get very little material outside of the 90 minutes from the players which they can turn into soundbites, and the managers have to appear at pressers, so obviously they are going to focus on the bench.

Post by **thebillfella** » 22 Apr 2019, 13:53

murf wrote:A good manager gets his players to buy into his ethos be that running around a lot, Sarriball, bus parking, whatever. I'm not sure what Ole's ethos is - but they are still playing like Jose's team with low possession and counter attacking - which all seems a bit dated (for a top team) to be honest. Maybe the players just aren't impressed by his ideas or they aren't comprehensive enough to fully work. Can't be much fun to play like that especially for the more skilled and/or attacking stars.

But we have seen and heard from Ole how he wants to play and it isn't how you describe murf. He wants to play a high tempo high pressing game with more direct forward passing and getting more bodies in the box (similar to Liverpool atm).

The players were doing this at the start which is why they went on such a good run but lately the sprints in transition have turned into jogs for some. You can't carry players at this level and that is what is happening now.

I'll reiterate Darby's and my earlier comments that Ole is not to blame here - there are a few too many plsyers that have stopped putting the effort in and have used up their last chance. Time to lance the boils - and it could take s number of windows to resolve.

Post by **blahblah** » 22 Apr 2019, 14:06

I'm assuming Pigba and Sanchez due to how much he is getting paid to sit on the bench. Who else?

Assuming Sanchez can be offloaded at 350k (?) a week....

Post by **Maldini** » 22 Apr 2019, 14:11

thebillfella wrote: I'll reiterate Darby's and my earlier comments that Ole is not to blame here - there are a few too many plsyers that have stopped putting the effort in and have used up their last chance. Time to lance the boils - and it could take s number of windows to resolve.

So why were so many blaming Mourinho?

He had the balls to drop Pogba. And he regularly called out players for their poor performances. That was always supposedly down to his man management rather than the players lack effort/quality though.

It can’t be the managers fault when it suits and not when it doesn’t.

Post by **Zimmerman** » 22 Apr 2019, 14:26

Just about to post something similar.

All going well, it’s because ole has put a smile on their faces, has taken off the shackles, is playing a high tempo game, has reinstalled United values, has the team playing for him..... when it turns back to garbage (arguably the new manager bounce has work off) and it’s because the squad are rubbish. Either his tactics and motivation is the answer or it isn’t. Can’t have it both ways?

For the record, I’m not blaming him... I think the squad is woefully short of their previous standards. There are some bad apples in their and some players that are past their best.

Post by **Zimmerman** » 22 Apr 2019, 14:27

blahblah wrote: ↑22 Apr 2019, 14:06 I'm assuming Pigba and Sanchez due to how much he is getting paid to sit on the bench. Who else?

Assuming Sanchez can be offloaded at 350k (?) a week....

To whom?
2 years of fairly abject performances (and complete anonymity).... there won’t be anybody banging down the door to sign him, let alone as their highest paid player.

Post by **Mo Bot** » 22 Apr 2019, 16:51

So who should he keep, who should he sell and who should he target to replace them?

Keep (if he can)
DDG
Shaw
Rashford
Lindelof
Bailly
Martial
Lukaku

Sell/release
Pogba
Mata
Fred
Matic
Young
Jones
Smalling
Valencia
Sanchez
Lingard
Romero
Dalot
Rojo
Darmian

Buy
AWB
A midfield.
Bale? (on the cheap)

It's an illustration of the rebuilding job he has and the number of transfers needed to change the squad. Shame he doesn't have a wildcard available to help him along.
Pogba and maybe Lukaku still have considerable value in the transfer market and could fund a rebuilding job. Unfortunately, young promising stars are not cheap and United are not as attractive team without guaranteed champions league football.

Post by **blahblah** » 22 Apr 2019, 16:57

I was thinking of Bale as part of the Pigba deal.

I'm not convinced that Lulu plays well with Rashford and there are a handful I'd keep notably Jesse, Dalot, Matic and Young (as FB cover).

Is start by losing the trouble-makers, but I don't know the full list of them....

Post by **hancockjr** » 22 Apr 2019, 17:02

Surprised to see Lukaku on the "keep" side (too slow for that kind of football) and Lindgard on the sell (surely he's exactly what they need).

Definitely Man U need to rebuild. Definitely they've appointed a manager where there is no evidence at all that he has any skills in this area, or really any relevant top level management skills at all, apart from an ability to get an initial bounce. Non-Man U fans must be laughing right now.

Post by **Maldini** » 22 Apr 2019, 17:28

DDG - sell for Courtois and cash?
Shaw - keep
Rashford - keep
Lindelof - keep but needs quality partner.
Bailly - Sell
Martial - keep
Lukaku - keep but needs to find consistency
Pogba - swap for Isco?
Mata - sell
Fred - sell
Matic - keep
Young - release
Jones - keep squad player
Smalling - sell
Valencia - release
Sanchez - try and sell to China
Lingard - keep
Romero - keep decent back up
Dalot - keep squad player
Rojo - sell
Darmian - sell

Need a commanding centre back, a right back and a quality midfielder this window to stay challenging for Champions League spot.

Probably need 8 or 9 top quality signings to challenge for Premier League / Champions League again so 3 or 4 windows minimum.

Post by **Tacalabala** » 22 Apr 2019, 18:16

I think you're being a touch harsh - this is what I'd do, and hope to target, it's not as straightforward as this obviously.

Keep (if he can)
DDG
Lindelof (still not convinced to be honest)
Shaw
Dalot
Lingard
Fred
McTominay
Rashford
Martial

Sell/release > Replaced by
Romero > Academy
Bailly > AWB
Jones > Harry Maguire
Rojo > Kieran Tierney
Darmian > Matt Doherty
Smalling > Benjamin Pavard
Young > Academy
Valencia > Academy
Pogba > Gareth Bale
Mata > Nabil Fekir
Matic > Luka Milivojević
Herrera > Diogo Jota
Pereira > Academy
Sanchez > Callum Wilson
Lukaku > Timo Werner or Antoine Griezmann

Post by **Maldini** » 22 Apr 2019, 18:41

Benjamin Pavard has just signed for Bayern Munich so you ain’t getting him and can’t see Griezmann leaving Atletico for anyone other than the big two in Spain.

AWB would be a good signing but the others you mention don’t do anything for me and you’d be replacing like for like quality wise.

FISO