The most bitter World Cup thread ever (gets shot down in flames)

[blahblah]

Obviously it happened before, but maybe not as blatantly as recently to 1982? And it certainly harked back to the really bad 60's - Uruguay were in an infamous one?

[bluenosey]

I would sympathise......

....but it's Maradonna

But way back then he wasn't what he became... Was he the last to get no protection form ref's? ie more Best than Messi?

Of course you're right Blah, bang on. But Argentina v Brazil has never been pretty. I'm sure Pele would have got the same treatment in a different era from the opposition.

Exactly as with Best, but Maradonna, Neymar et al get it nowadays?

I'm trying to work out when the watershed was.....

Didn’t Pele get kicked out of the tournament by Hungary(?) in 1966? A valuable assist for England’s eventual triumph anyway...

Yeah, he was carrying a knock anyway and ended up limping off in one of the games.

Pele could give it out though. Check out his fowl on Rodney Marsh in the NASL

[blahblah]

Pele could give it out though. Check out his fowl on Rodney Marsh in the NASL

Yep and foul too

[bluenosey]

Which year was Rivaldo?

Certainly after '82 they went "Dunga"....

Maybe part of my dislike is how good Argentina were in '78 - and they had long flowing hair

2002

Argies 78. Had to win by 4 or more goals to qualify v Peru.....and scored 6 What a bleedin fiddle

Anyway, the French in 82 has better flowing perms

[bluenosey]

Italy v Chile 1962 ? Very, very violent. Worth googling (from behind the cushion)

I still was in the womb then, but the lore here is that we got robbed by the connivent Brit ref allowing hosts to get away with just anything and penalizing us for even the most innocent breath...

The ref was lenient but it had got out of hand before then. One of the opposing team had slagged off the other teams' women. And it just spiralled from there.

There is a David Coleman commentary, I think, saying its the worst spectacle he had ever seen and was ashamed. Bear in mind this was 1962.

[blahblah]

The French perms didn't flow like the Argies'

Kempes et al had the best hair of any footballers (I hope their's has fallen out too )

[nffc]

I think it has been ok entertainment so far. Good to see Russia doing ok and through as the hosts, England scraping a win and some of the bigger dislikeable teams struggling. Spain v Portugal, Mexico v Germany and Croatia v Argentina being the highlights.

If nothing else at least the Ronaldo v Messi question as the best player ever appears to be confirmed shortly. No arguement anymore if performances continue as they have done so far.

[forestfan]

If nothing else at least the Ronaldo v Messi question as the best player ever appears to be confirmed shortly. No arguement anymore if performances continue as they have done so far.

There’s a few other candidates for that title as well, football didn’t start in 2004

While the World Cup isn’t everything (and Messi’s previous efforts were perhaps better than Ronaldo’s) I do think that being able to inspire a less than stellar team to success is a necessary attribute for someone to be the best player ever. And there’s some more than half decent players around him, it’s not like George Best or George Weah being expected to win World Cups for Northern Ireland or Liberia! As much as his struggles with his country, I’ve always been disappointed at him not testing himself outside the Barcelona bubble that’s been created for him since he was a teenager. Even if he’d gone to Bayern or City with Pep, it would have been a new environment, challenging him to score 40 or 50 goals in another European league. But he’s never seemed interested in that and it looks pretty certain that his next move will be a semi-retirement one to the Far East or back to Argentina.

[nffc]

Portugal would not have won the Euros without him or even got points in the last 2 games at this world cup. Real Madrid would not have won the 2018 champions league. He is just getting better with age well into his 30s whereas Messi as you also say can't do it without the Barcelona superstars supporting him and he is not as good as he once was.

I know it did not start til 2004 but it's almost impossible to argue not. He is definitely the best I can remember, which would be back to about 1990 ish. I am aware of the candidates before then but in my opinion they won't even come close.

[forestfan]

Well, Pele and Maradona are the obvious historical candidates... in the case of the former, he dominated World Cups as a youngster and a veteran, scored (allegedly) 1000 goals - but obviously never played European club football. Whereas Maradona inspired a national side to glory perhaps unlike anyone before or since, did the same with a relatively unfashionable Italian club... but then there’s the darker side of him and perhaps not the consistency or weight of stats of the others (although he was far from being an out-and-out striker or pure goalscorer...)

There’s probably no “right” answer, and others will also have their advocates.

[bluenosey]

Well, Pele and Maradona are the obvious historical candidates... in the case of the former, he dominated World Cups as a youngster and a veteran, scored (allegedly) 1000 goals - but obviously never played European club football. Whereas Maradona inspired a national side to glory perhaps unlike anyone before or since, did the same with a relatively unfashionable Italian club... but then there’s the darker side of him and perhaps not the consistency or weight of stats of the others (although he was far from being an out-and-out striker or pure goalscorer...)

There’s probably no “right” answer, and others will also have their advocates.

Cruyff was arguably the player of the 70s, taking Holland to two finals. He won three successive European Cups with Ajax. Won further honours with Barcelona, went back and won more with Ajax and the became a hugely successful manager. In terms of a "total" career, he may well eclipse the above two.

[blahblah]

This has been done many, many times - maybe some kind Mod will find some of the olde posts and make a Sticky, which we can link to when it starts again?

[forestfan]

It was the George Best thread, I think, most recently...

[blahblah]

It was the George Best thread, I think, most recently...

He is my pick

[thebillfella]

This is shaping up as the worst World Cup ever ?

No, it isn't. Next question.

[bluenosey]

This is shaping up as the worst World Cup ever ?

No, it isn't. Next question.

Bang on.

It's been really good today.

[blahblah]

This is shaping up as the worst World Cup ever ?

No, it isn't. Next question.

Bang on.

It's been really good today.

If\when Germany win it, it could well be

[forestfan]

This is shaping up as the worst World Cup ever ?

No, it isn't. Next question.

Bang on.

It's been really good today.

If\when Germany win it, it could well be

Another Germany-Argentina final, you heard it here first

[quizking]

... germany/argentina as big as 225/1 with betfair, yet as short as 40/1 with the appalling (and recently sanctioned by gambling commission) sunbets. But enough to retire on with the former if you happen to be right, congratulations!

[trampie]

The defending in this tournament is the worst I have ever seen, big teams playing for 1-0, little teams playing for 0-0, on watching the play that is what they are trying to do but a combination of VAR and hopeless defending means they cant even achieve that more often than not.

[murf]

The defending in this tournament is the worst I have ever seen, big teams playing for 1-0, little teams playing for 0-0, on watching the play that is what they are trying to do but a combination of VAR and hopeless defending means they cant even achieve that more often than not.

You mean the VAR is working in punishing cheats??

[dead parrot]

The defending in this tournament is the worst I have ever seen, big teams playing for 1-0, little teams playing for 0-0, on watching the play that is what they are trying to do but a combination of VAR and hopeless defending means they cant even achieve that more often than not.

You mean the VAR is working in punishing cheats??

No not after the Portugal Iran game.
Endless play acting /cheating by both sides went unpunished. The attempt to get Ronaldo sent off was a typical example. Though Ronaldo might often deserve it by his behaviour that by the Iranian plunged new depths.
And VAR will never be successful while incompetent referees are in charge, BBC commentators got it exactly right when they described the Port-Iran referee (VAR influenced) decisions as farcical.

[trampie]

The defending in this tournament is the worst I have ever seen, big teams playing for 1-0, little teams playing for 0-0, on watching the play that is what they are trying to do but a combination of VAR and hopeless defending means they cant even achieve that more often than not.

You mean the VAR is working in punishing cheats??

No not after the Portugal Iran game.
Endless play acting /cheating by both sides went unpunished. The attempt to get Ronaldo sent off was a typical example. Though Ronaldo might often deserve it by his behaviour that by the Iranian plunged new depths.
And VAR will never be successful while incompetent referees are in charge, BBC commentators got it exactly right when they described the Port-Iran referee (VAR influenced) decisions as farcical.

I had the game on and looked up when there was an incident or goal, so I did not religiously watch every second but my thoughts were :-

Do not listen to the English broadcasting corporation dead parrot, fake news, I thought the ref did well.
Ronaldo pen he might have thought that he went down a bit easy, looking for contact, we can only assume that VAR asked him to check it, which is code for we think its a pen, regardless if it supposed to be code or not that is the clear implication from the expert[s] in the VAR room, he looks at it and there could be no other decision than a penalty - so he got it right imo and his thinking and actions would possibly have been the same as mine if that is how it happened.


Ronaldo brushing past the Irianian nothing to see play on, VAR get involved [which is code for we think Ronaldo did wrong], the incident was next to nothing so he gives a free kick and a booking, understandable in the circumstance.


By the time of the Iranian pen the ref had had 90 mins of play acting, tv monitor signs, booking signs, managers and benches playing up etc, he dealt with it well he could have sent players off and there would no doubt have been even more fuss by the English media.
VAR tell him to check for handball- code whether intentionally or not for i/we think its a penalty, handball was handball back in the day [harsh but everyone knew where they stood], then they had this ridicolous ball to hand nonesense but now in recent times it is 'is the hand/arm in an unusual position' probably to try and stop defenders doing star jumps just before a ball is struck and then getting away with what would have been handball under the traditional football rules.

What was the ref supposed to do after being surrounded by players and it had been like that for most of the game, VAR telling him to do this and that against his own personal on field judgement, VAR should leave the ref alone unless its clear and obvious otherwise officiate the entire match from tv, no doubt the ref is aware of the different interpretation of handball, it did hit him on the arm and his arm was up in the air, having being summoned to look at VAR, what else was he going to do ?

Football have no idea how to impliment VAR, they needed to have spent a season seeing how rugby do it.

As regards the tv people and their ridicolous comments of Lawrence and Shearer they need to be careful what they say.
If Ingerlund get knocked out in a certain circumstance the media need to becareful what they say, otherwise England could be ablaze again and effigies being burnt.

[jimmy ching]

This World Cup has been surprisingly enjoyable for the Group stages.
There has been no hooligan problem so far. I shouldn't have said that.
The Russian hospitality is giving the impression of being very good.
England are happy, the French are optimistic (Not Normal) and the Germans and Argentinians have dug themselves out of a hole, again.
Schmeichel is doing what his Dad did, the Croats are playing with freedom and the Serbs are using Russian familiarity to their advantage.
It has been a disaster for the African Federation. When it comes to handing out places for the 2026 finals where 48 teams will be entered, the Africans might pay for their performances here.

[RomynPG]

Your first thought was ...

Do not listen to the English broadcasting corporation dead parrot, fake news

[liquidfootball2]

This World Cup has been surprisingly enjoyable for the Group stages.
There has been no hooligan problem so far. I shouldn't have said that.
The Russian hospitality is giving the impression of being very good.
England are happy, the French are optimistic (Not Normal) and the Germans and Argentinians have dug themselves out of a hole, again.
Schmeichel is doing what his Dad did, the Croats are playing with freedom and the Serbs are using Russian familiarity to their advantage.


It has been a disaster for the African Federation. When it comes to handing out places for the 2026 finals where 48 teams will be entered, the Africans might pay for their performances here.

Agree wholeheartedly on the world cup, so far it has been well above average and tonight no exception. The drama and late goals really adding to it.

VAR for me too has been a big success and I was glad to see the ref tonight saying no penalty, last nights fiasco was primarily caused by poor refereeing, human error can let it down but there are undoubtedly more correct decisions because of it.

The 48 team proposals are so controversial precisely because its the weaker confederations like Africa, Asia and North and central America, who are getting huge percentage increases in their allocations while Europe and South America, who could provide 14 of the last 16 here are getting their percentage allocations actually cut, so up marginally numerically but down percentage wise.

For me its largely FIFA politics and securing more grateful delegates from those parts of the world, all of whom have their own spheres of influence, a bit of empire building if you like. It consolidates the presidents position and that of his cohorts to go along this route.

Success or complete lack of it, is very unlikely (imo) to make any difference to the new quotas proposed.

More attack vs a weaker team's massed defence or England/Panama style games look likely to result.

[liquidfootball2]

Your first thought was ...

Do not listen to the English broadcasting corporation dead parrot, fake news

Exactly what I thought too, beyond me.

[thebillfella]

Why don't you just name this thread "I'm going to find any fault I can with this world cup because Wales isn't there"?

The confirmation bias being demonstrated here is palpable!!!

[RomynPG]

Why don't you just name this thread "I'm going to find any fault I can with this world cup because Wales isn't there"?

Just the insertion of the word "thread" into the current title and replace ? with ! also works

[Striker]

Why don't you just name this thread "I'm going to find any fault I can with this world cup because Wales isn't there"?

The confirmation bias being demonstrated here is palpable!!!

Given that the OP often displays poorer judgement than any other frequent poster, that's hardly surprising.