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Man City and FFP

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hancockjr
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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by hancockjr »

Darbyand wrote: 10 Jun 2020, 17:48
Dot wrote: 08 Jun 2020, 11:52 Perhaps Liverpool win 2 league titles this year.
Both with an asterisk. :wink:
From the Man U Seasonal blog:
thebillfella wrote: 18 Feb 2020, 23:24 Keavne vs, Carra becoming humerous car crash telly of late :D

Carragher: “Liverpool will get more points than the Man Utd treble team did this season.”
Roy Keane: “When you win a Premier League medal Jamie you get one medal you don’t turn it over and it says how many points you got.”
We can now paraphrase to: "Roy Keane: When you win 2 Premier League medals Jamie you get two medals, you don’t turn them over and and see asterisks on them." :D

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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by Darbyand »

Decision day for the Champions League ban is 13 July if this is accurate:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... heard.html

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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by friendlinzh »

FFP is not going to be the saviour everyone seem to think it will be.

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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by friendlinzh »

FFP is not going to be the saviour everyone seem to think it will be.

hancockjr
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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by hancockjr »

friendlinzh wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 11:01 FFP is not going to be the saviour everyone seem to think it will be.
Very liberal use of "everyone" there.

I don't know many people who support it. I think clubs should live within their income, but if their income includes someone rich giving them a ton of cash then that is income.

FFP is designed by the elite rich clubs to ensure they remain the elite rich clubs, even though they probably wouldn't be in that bracket had FFP always existed.

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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by Darbyand »

Without FFP City probably would have spent a couple of billion on players and your lot would be waiting >30 years for a title, so you've got something to be thankful for.

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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by Dot »

Darbyand wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 14:03 Without FFP City probably would have spent a couple of billion on players and your lot would be waiting >30 years for a title, so you've got something to be thankful for.
without FFP United would be looking at another season not dining at the top table

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Re: Man City and FFP

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Darbyand wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 14:03 Without FFP City probably would have spent a couple of billion on players and your lot would be waiting >30 years for a title, so you've got something to be thankful for.
Unlike some I'd rather the rules were set to what I think is right, not what specifically benefits "my lot". Such parochialism should not define what you
believe should happen in every case.

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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by Darbyand »

Dot wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 14:07

without FFP United would be looking at another season not dining at the top table
Not sure how it's benefitting United with the two main culprits, City and Chelsea, taking CL spots year on year. But hopefully we'll do enough this season anyway.
hancockjr wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 14:09 Unlike some I'd rather the rules were set to what I think is right, not what specifically benefits "my lot". Such parochialism should not define what you
believe should happen in every case.
I didn't say Liverpool's success should cause you to change your views, just that you had reason to be thankful for it.

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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by blahblah »

Congrats to Wolves and possibly the Foxes for shaking up the top 4 despite it....

FFP is designed to keep the rich clubs on top and prevent new clubs breaking through.....

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Re: Man City and FFP

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blahblah wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 16:06 Congrats to Wolves and possibly the Foxes for shaking up the top 4 despite it....

FFP is designed to keep the rich clubs on top and prevent new clubs breaking through.....
Agreed, although apparently all that matters is how it affects the club you support.

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Re: Man City and FFP

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hancockjr wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 17:03
blahblah wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 16:06 Congrats to Wolves and possibly the Foxes for shaking up the top 4 despite it....

FFP is designed to keep the rich clubs on top and prevent new clubs breaking through.....
Agreed, although apparently all that matters is how it affects the club you support.
Well my once beloved Ipswich are stuffed....

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Re: Man City and FFP

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FFP prevents any club from dominating because of dodgy owners who don't run the club as a business. I'm not saying the current system is anything like perfect but something is needed (there are various models from F1's spending and testing limits to salary caps in Rugby and Egg Chasing) to stop the excesses.

Without it City would be miles clear (now Roman has eased off) - by only being streets clear they are occasionally beatable by a sane business model (Liverpool just one example) running well and even lesser clubs get a chance of being near.

Without FFP Chelsea would be bigger (Roman could have dominated and built more before easing off) and Citeh miles bigger so the rest would be fighting for 2 CL spots - maybe less if it encouraged other oligarchs/sheikhs to have a free go too. How that is a benefit to anyone is beyond me.

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Re: Man City and FFP

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And Wolves? Leicester?

FFP is for clubs with a strong brand Globally to maintain their position just like Spain and Germany etc are 1 or 2 Club countries.

Arguably if there was a decent cash return it wouldn't cost much to have usurped Rangers, and in a different way Ajax could have kept their kids.....

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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by Darbyand »

If City and Chelsea weren't occupying those spots, Wolves and Leicester might get 2 or 3 years of Champions League money and establish themselves.

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Re: Man City and FFP

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Have Wolves complied? I have them down as CL certainties next season as they are used to 2 matches a week on the dreaded Thurs\Sun thing...

Both could, although I think Buck is s choker and keeps trying to fix something that isn't broken.

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Re: Man City and FFP

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Darbyand wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 17:20 If City and Chelsea weren't occupying those spots, Wolves and Leicester might get 2 or 3 years of Champions League money and establish themselves.
Exactly - even with FFP they both found success wasn't sustainable versus the doped with a thin squad and the demands of European football. Wolves actually did well to stay reasonably strong domestically while in the EL IMO. Not sure how Liverpool are doing it with a relatively thin squad to be honest - luckily any key injuries have been spaced out (no more than 2 at a time) and short(ish) term.

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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by Darbyand »

blahblah wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 17:23 Have Wolves complied? I have them down as CL certainties next season as they are used to 2 matches a week on the dreaded Thurs\Sun thing...

Both could, although I think Buck is s choker and keeps trying to fix something that isn't broken.
I think they're compliant. The situation in which a foreign country can buy a failing football club and spend a couple of billion quid to make them an automatic CL qualifier is a huge problem for well run clubs like them and Leicester. Unless you're saying it's not fair on clubs like them who might be denied an opportunity to get their own sugar daddy and go on a City style rise? Newcastle spring to mind. Well, I find that abhorrent. It's not what competitive football is about. And as stated many times up thread, unfair on those 2, Everton, Soton etc etc over the last 15 years. Far more so than on United who (should be) are big enough to look after themselves.

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Re: Man City and FFP

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Darbyand wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 17:46
blahblah wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 17:23 Have Wolves complied? I have them down as CL certainties next season as they are used to 2 matches a week on the dreaded Thurs\Sun thing...

Both could, although I think Buck is s choker and keeps trying to fix something that isn't broken.
I think they're compliant. The situation in which a foreign country can buy a failing football club and spend a couple of billion quid to make them an automatic CL qualifier is a huge problem for well run clubs like them and Leicester. Unless you're saying it's not fair on clubs like them who might be denied an opportunity to get their own sugar daddy and go on a City style rise? Newcastle spring to mind. Well, I find that abhorrent. It's not what competitive football is about. And as stated many times up thread, unfair on those 2, Everton, Soton etc etc over the last 15 years. Far more so than on United who (should be) are big enough to look after themselves.
Yep to all of that apart from the Divine Right of some clubs.

However, long gone are the days of Ipswich, Forest, the yellow submarine (as if I can spell Villathing), Red Star, Steuau , Ajax et al. I don't follow Italian football to say Parma, Samodoria etc as they may be loaded. I'd guess most supporters if such clubs laugh at the likes of MU and Lpool moaning about other Clubs being too rich. Weren't Spurs your feeder Club before Citeh latched on to Arse?

I dread to think what Soton think of Lpool.

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Re: Man City and FFP

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The owners of Southampton must love Liverpool - they only survive by being a feeder club and making a fortune on Liverpool buys plus Walcott etc. The fans may not like it but they would be lucky to be surviving in the Championship on parachute payments if they hadn't developed/improved their talent and sold them on. Tis the way of the world.

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Re: Man City and FFP

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Or if they had kept them they would have hit Europe by now?

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Re: Man City and FFP

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If they hadn't sold us Lovren (for example) and kept him instead then they would never have bought VVD (or anyone else he funded) so would be nowhere near Europe.

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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by Dot »

murf wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 18:04 The owners of Southampton must love Liverpool - they only survive by being a feeder club and making a fortune on Liverpool buys plus Walcott etc. The fans may not like it but they would be lucky to be surviving in the Championship on parachute payments if they hadn't developed/improved their talent and sold them on. Tis the way of the world.
Where would they be without Ings goals. Yes they love Liverpool

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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by thebillfella »

hancockjr wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 13:57 FFP is designed by the elite rich clubs to ensure they remain the elite rich clubs, even though they probably wouldn't be in that bracket had FFP always existed.
I call bullshit to both points there, but carry on!

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Re: Man City and FFP

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thebillfella wrote:
hancockjr wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 13:57 FFP is designed by the elite rich clubs to ensure they remain the elite rich clubs, even though they probably wouldn't be in that bracket had FFP always existed.
I call bullshit to both points there, but carry on!
When did Liverpool, United & Arsenal ever spend more than they got in (when averaged over 3 years or whatever FFP does)?????

All are run, and always have been, as businesses. The fans of all 3 have had cause at times to worry their owners were taking too much out and not putting it back in! Never the opposite.

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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by thebillfella »

And they never blew the opposition out of the water by spending hundreds of % more than the next placed team in any single (or multiple) transfer window. They spent only what they earned from their own success ON the pitch, so would have had the same level of success with or without FFP in place and not as a result of it not being there.

Not even close to comparing apples with apples.

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Re: Man City and FFP

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Darbyand wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 14:03 Without FFP City probably would have spent a couple of billion on players and your lot would be waiting >30 years for a title, so you've got something to be thankful for.
Johan Cruyff. “Why couldn't you beat a richer club? I've never seen a bag of money score a goal.”

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Re: Man City and FFP

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Darbyand wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 14:03 Without FFP City probably would have spent a couple of billion on players and your lot would be waiting >30 years for a title, so you've got something to be thankful for.
Johan Cruyff. “Why couldn't you beat a richer club? I've never seen a bag of money score a goal.”

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Re: Man City and FFP

Post by Darbyand »

Darbyand wrote: 03 Jul 2020, 07:50 Decision day for the Champions League ban is 13 July if this is accurate:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... heard.html
City overturn the ban :shock: Egg on the face for UEFA.

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Re: Man City and FFP

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They are still convicted of hiding things from UEFA yet get away with some dodgy dealing because it is out of time limits (thanks to being hidden at the time).

****ing cheats

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