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THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by forestfan » 09 Jan 2019, 20:20

bluenosey wrote:
09 Jan 2019, 19:57
liquidfootball2 wrote:
09 Jan 2019, 14:19
Stoke appoint Nathan Jones the now former Luton boss as manager.
Nathan Jones, you've been gone too long.
I heard his name mentioned by one of the Sky pundits I think, when they were discussing Reading... I know, you have to be wary of Mersonist football xenophobia but the new guy at Reading does appear to have zero credentials to get an English Championship job - a nomadic managerial career in Portugal, Hungary and the Middle East, has never lasted more than 50-odd games anywhere, a solitary Saudi Super Cup to his name. But they liked his “philosophy”, and probably the fact he’s Portuguese, which is fashionable. One point from four games so far. Nathan Jones was mentioned as the sort of English manager who deserved a chance at a move up the ladder at the expense of these sort of speculative overseas appointments, now we’ll see how the fortunes of the two compare...

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by jimmy ching » 10 Jan 2019, 12:16

Bielsabub Babes 60.

It’s 3 losses on the trot. Derby, with a 24 hour gain turn up at Elland Road. A Friday night game for the TV.
Frank had his first lesson in management, when Bielsa turned up at Pride Park. It was a case of the Master meeting the apprentice. We must not forget, the Masters job is to create an apprentice that will end up better than him. Frank has shown he is up to the job since they last met. This time he knows what to expect.

Bielsa’s squad is squeaking. If only he can find that magic oil. Phillips is suspended, Baker has left for Reading, Douglas is out and Hernandez is a doubt. Pearce is in the spotlight. In the last two games he has played he has achieved a rarity and it wouldn’t surprise me if it was a first. He has come on as a sub and then been subbed, two games on the trot. Nothing like confidence building. Bielsa has been clear on this, it’s all down to tactics. Whether that is psychological help for the player or truly for tactics is a place for debate.

I’m not so confident going in to this one but the supporters seem to have a different view. It’s another sell out. Leeds are in a make shift state, something we expected at this time of the year. Fortunately for Leeds, Wilson looks as though he’ll miss the match.

When all is said and done, I would be reasonably happy with a draw. However, my gut feeling is a 2-1 loss.

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by liquidfootball2 » 11 Jan 2019, 09:00

Forest lose their manager, Forest fan hopefully will provide background but the posts I've read on another site are ;-

'Forest have let go of Karanka.

Fans didn't want to see the back of him by all accounts but their owners are crazy'

'He's asked them to rip up his contract, which is very unusual in this day and age.'

Admittedly as always with posts without reliable information they could be well wide of the mark, but he has left.



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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by bluenosey » 11 Jan 2019, 16:42

7th in the table. Coming off the back of beating Leeds :?

All still not well at Forest. Could be Rowett's next stop on his tour of the Midlands.

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by forestfan » 11 Jan 2019, 18:39

There’s been much talk of unrest for a while, and the suggestion he was about to go started before Christmas. I think the owners expected a genuine challenge for the top two, rather than basically heading an extended mid-table pack (we’re closer in points to 13th than 6th). Results like the Leeds one (largely gifted to us by a red card) were being interspersed by listless 1-0 defeats to strugglers, and capitulations like the injury time debacle at Norwich. It just seemed to be a case of never getting any momentum up. A new director of football probably added to the tensions as well.

It’s traditional for us to change manager at this stage of a season (9th season in a row that we haven’t completed with the same manager as we started it, is that an all-time record I wonder?) This time at least it’s trying to revitalise a promotion push as opposed to halting a slump towards relegation, but I hope they have a plan. I’d be surprised if we go for a Moyes or Allardyce, or a Championship club-hopper like Rowett - the likes of Martin O’Neill (15 or 20 years too late) and Nigel Clough are being mentioned, but I suspect they will look to the continent, perhaps with experience of the English game. Jokanovic seems to be an early favourite.

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by liquidfootball2 » 11 Jan 2019, 19:44

There have been quite remarkable developments in the so called 'spygate' affair with a Leeds football staff member being caught at Derby's training ground as Lampard gave Derby their final training session and prepared match tactics.

Bielsa has admitted full responsibility, Lampard seems absolutely furious with him and says it could well not be an isolated incident.

We possibly haven't heard the last of this

'Bielsa: I did send someone to spy'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11605059

This is almost bound to tarnish Bielsa's reputation and his team, overnight they have possibly lost an awful lot of respect and goodwill.

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by jimmy ching » 12 Jan 2019, 02:03

Bielsabub Babes 61

Before the kick off, it was all about binoculars. It was clear within the 1st minute the referee hadn’t forgotten his, as he pointed to the spot. Unfortunately for Leeds, Mr Leach, the linesman had left his at home. Offside was eventually given.
The pressure built and became incessant. On the 20th minute, Hernandez took the corner, Carson punched out to the wing, it arrived at Clarke's feet, Roofe was already moving to the place where he knew Clarke would put it. 1-0, such a sweet goal. Simple football is a pleasure to the eye.
It took until the 34th minute for Derby to get a chance at goal. It was clear Lawrence is really a Lowrence in disguise. This was a half totally dominated by Leeds. When the whistle blew for the break, Lampard wasn’t looking too happy, maybe a little grumpy.

The 2nd half started as the first one finished. Within two minutes, Clake centered and somehow as Alioski fell over he provided a perfect pass for Harrison to prove a family point.
The game rolled on, as another legitimate penalty claim was turned down, this time Hernandez was the victim.

The flip-side of the game arrived as Derby were pushed in to having to attack. Peacock-Farrell went a little over the top when trying to stamp his authority in the box. It looked like it should have been a red and a penalty. The ref did nothing. Expect him to receive a Bielsa bawl.

Of the two teams playing tonight, it seems quite quite likely Leeds are the ones that will be there at the end of the season. A comfortable win.

No doubt now, the news will be about spygate. This is where the Master shows the Apprentice, the ways of the world.
He stated in his pre-match conference, that he was responsible for the spying.
He's smart. He doesn't claim to be morally superior, something that is rife nowadays. Frankly, Lampard must learn. If you want to be top in your profession, expect all sorts of tactics to be deployed. That's lesson number two for the young English manager.

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by 7lb claimer » 12 Jan 2019, 06:31

A ten point penalty wouldn't make him look too smart. Did the spy ever trespass on other clubs property? I doubt if Leeds will get away scot free with this.

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by nffc » 12 Jan 2019, 09:34

7lb claimer wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 06:31
A ten point penalty wouldn't make him look too smart. Did the spy ever trespass on other clubs property? I doubt if Leeds will get away scot free with this.
I really hope so, they have played good football at times but I hate the way that they are also cheating there way to the top.
They cheated against us to take points from us and I'm sure I've read a couple more incidents of cheating about them against other clubs this season.
And now this, it's not going to be the first time they have been trespassing to spy but the first time they have gotten caught.
jimmy ching wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 02:03

He's smart. He doesn't claim to be morally superior, something that is rife nowadays. Frankly, Lampard must learn. If you want to be top in your profession, expect all sorts of tactics to be deployed. That's lesson number two for the young English manager.
I can't disagree more than this. Id be embarrassed if it was my club. I hate dirty play, I hate it if I see any of our players not behaving morally (our current GK angers me with his time wasting), and even more I hate cheating.

As a great man once said to your club " you can throw all of your medals in the bin as you have won them all through cheating"

Yes I don't like Leeds very much :lol:

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by nffc » 12 Jan 2019, 10:00

forestfan wrote:
11 Jan 2019, 18:39
There’s been much talk of unrest for a while, and the suggestion he was about to go started before Christmas. I think the owners expected a genuine challenge for the top two, rather than basically heading an extended mid-table pack (we’re closer in points to 13th than 6th). Results like the Leeds one (largely gifted to us by a red card) were being interspersed by listless 1-0 defeats to strugglers, and capitulations like the injury time debacle at Norwich. It just seemed to be a case of never getting any momentum up. A new director of football probably added to the tensions as well.

It’s traditional for us to change manager at this stage of a season (9th season in a row that we haven’t completed with the same manager as we started it, is that an all-time record I wonder?) This time at least it’s trying to revitalise a promotion push as opposed to halting a slump towards relegation, but I hope they have a plan. I’d be surprised if we go for a Moyes or Allardyce, or a Championship club-hopper like Rowett - the likes of Martin O’Neill (15 or 20 years too late) and Nigel Clough are being mentioned, but I suspect they will look to the continent, perhaps with experience of the English game. Jokanovic seems to be an early favourite.
Sad to see Karanka go but something not right behind the scenes so time to move on unfortunately.

Record for most changes I'd guess someone like Newcastle, Palace or Waford? But doubt we are that far behind.

Out of the above managers I can only see it being Jokanovic or a far bigger name that he will throw money at than any of the usual suspects of Rowett, Sam, etc.

The clear minimum requirement our owner is expecting this year is promotion so none of the others are an upgrade on Karamka or are going to achieve that.

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by forestfan » 12 Jan 2019, 10:03

In terms of the Leeds situation, it may be unsporting but is there actually anything in the League rules allowing punishment for something like this?

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by jimmy ching » 12 Jan 2019, 10:20

nffc wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 09:34
7lb claimer wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 06:31
A ten point penalty wouldn't make him look too smart. Did the spy ever trespass on other clubs property? I doubt if Leeds will get away scot free with this.
I really hope so, they have played good football at times but I hate the way that they are also cheating there way to the top.
They cheated against us to take points from us and I'm sure I've read a couple more incidents of cheating about them against other clubs this season.
And now this, it's not going to be the first time they have been trespassing to spy but the first time they have gotten caught.
jimmy ching wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 02:03

He's smart. He doesn't claim to be morally superior, something that is rife nowadays. Frankly, Lampard must learn. If you want to be top in your profession, expect all sorts of tactics to be deployed. That's lesson number two for the young English manager.
I can't disagree more than this. Id be embarrassed if it was my club. I hate dirty play, I hate it if I see any of our players not behaving morally (our current GK angers me with his time wasting), and even more I hate cheating.

As a great man once said to your club " you can throw all of your medals in the bin as you have won them all through cheating"

Yes I don't like Leeds very much :lol:
So watching the opposition is cheating? Ok, line all the clubs up and give them all penalty points. The table with look the same.
If Frank is so precious about this, why hasn't he chosen to train away from places viewable from public space. If the law of the land is broken, he'd have a fair point. That is not the case here. Frank, you can faint now, the couch is behind you.

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by liquidfootball2 » 12 Jan 2019, 11:49

Leeds United have apologised to Derby County and issued a statement saying they will remind head coach Marcelo Bielsa of the club’s principles of "integrity and honesty" in the wake of the recent spying revelations.

Derbyshire Police had been called to Derby's training gound after a member of United's coaching staff was caught surreptitiously watching the session.

Bielsa subsequently admitted before Leeds played Derby at Elland Road that he had sent someone to spy on Derby, and the club have now issued a response in which they confirmed they have met with Derby officials.

"Following comments made by Marcelo Bielsa yesterday (Friday) the club will look to work with our head coach and his staff to remind them of the integrity and honesty which are the foundations that Leeds United is built on," read an official statement from Leeds United.

"Our owner Andrea Radrizzani has met with Derby County's owner Mel Morris to formally apologise for Marcelo's actions.

"We will make no further comment on this matter."


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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by liquidfootball2 » 12 Jan 2019, 12:12

forestfan wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 10:03
In terms of the Leeds situation, it may be unsporting but is there actually anything in the League rules allowing punishment for something like this?
No actual rules have been broken but the FA have said they are investigating the incident. I suppose they could issue a bringing the game into disrepute charge or something along those lines. There have been some precedents of taking action against individuals even if by the letter of their own laws there hasn't actually been any infringement, although in very different circumstances and targeting individuals rather than clubs.

There would absolutely be an element of just picking one malpractice out of so many and making an example of it, although the consistent or at least hardening line to tapping up misdemeanors, or worse, is an example of how certain modes of behaviour can become morally unacceptable regardless of whether its even-handed or fair, widespread practice or an isolated case. Maybe it's getting caught red handed that's the problem for the FA and being so open about it.

It could also be remiss not to take into account the tendency of any cause taken up by social media nowadays to gather momentum and snowball until it almost becomes unstoppable and makes it imperative for someone in authority to be at least seen to act however out of proportion the outrage possibly is. Fairness doesn't always enter into it.

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by jimmy ching » 12 Jan 2019, 13:29

There are some beauties coming out now. This has opened up a can of worms.

Jose Mourinho first job was to go and watch opposing team train often incognito for Sir Bobby Robson. (it must be noted, this was in Spain)

Andres Villas- Boas did the same for Mourinho when Frank Lampard played at Chelsea. Did Frank know about this?

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by morganb » 12 Jan 2019, 18:50

How bad must Forest be - Reading won at home. Bit of handbags in the second half too. Two red cards and an own goal.

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by Surprised » 12 Jan 2019, 22:50

forestfan wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 10:03
In terms of the Leeds situation, it may be unsporting but is there actually anything in the League rules allowing punishment for something like this?
No rules were broken. Are the ones crying about this expecting Leeds to be sanctioned for not breaking rules?

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by liquidfootball2 » 14 Jan 2019, 11:48

Forest to appoint Martin O'Neill as their next manager according to just about everyone

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by liquidfootball2 » 16 Jan 2019, 16:08

Just a day after the EFL launched a formal investigation into the ridiculously named 'spy-gate', Leeds United have called an unexpected news conference for the head coach Marcel Bielsa at five o'clock today.

There is no information as of yet as to what it's going to be about and therefore could be completely unconnected with this.

The incidents seems to have been blown out of all proportion for something which surely can only merit a slap on the wrist or fine with both the FA and EFL now holding formal investigations, it's not the most grievous of crimes and must be at the lower end of misdemeanors and therefore punishments, being so open and getting caught twice by the same club wasn't too clever for me and you could see Lampard was incensed and very public about it on national TV and in the media.

Leeds have just simply called this an 'additional' news conference and therefore that doesn't mean it's necessarily connected and could be routine or about something completely different, but the timing perhaps indicates it might be.

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by liquidfootball2 » 16 Jan 2019, 16:50

Leeds United centre-back Pontus Jansson has dismissed a wild internet rumour about Marcelo Bielsa - reacting with laughing emojis.

Jansson tweeted tonight ahead of a 5pm Leeds United official press conference at which Bielsa is expected to talk about the Spygate incident from Friday night ahead of the Derby County game.

Rumours of his resignation are apparently well wide of the mark, about spy gate apparently.


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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by liquidfootball2 » 16 Jan 2019, 17:18

Copied from Yorkshire Evening Post just extra talking about spygate again....



Many managers and ex-footballers said my behaviour was not respectful. The league after a complaint my by Derby County decided to open an investigation over my behaviour so they will evaluate if I behaved bad.

I with the goal of gaining a sports advantage and damaging the fair play. I already said I was responsible for this situation. The person who did it followed my orders and I am the only responsible one. My behaviour has been debated and many people have made an opinion. Many have condemned the act of behaviour. They've said it was immoral and violated the fair play and cheating. The club thought it was obliged public excuses to Derby County. I was publicly told that my behaviour was not respecting the principles and integrity that are the basis of the club.

I called this press conference because we have a normal press conference tomorrow. I thought this Spygate matter would take more time to explain.

Bielsa continued

I am going to try and explain that I didn't have bad intentions or get a sporting advantage. I did it because it was not illegal or violating a specific law.

Of course have a point of view but it does not mean mine is right. As Lampard said he doesn't believe I didn't have bad intentions. He believes that I violated the fair play spirit. So I have to adapt to the rules that are linked to the habits of English football. Nobody ignores that all professional members of football want to work in British football. We have some conclusions. We have some analysis that the Championship is the sixth biggest competition in the world.

Bielsa continued.....

I don't want to compare my behaviour with the past. I've heard that there are other behaviours that effect the fair play but I absolutely do not want to defend myself by attacking others. I don't want to point to any other situation that is not linked to my responsibility. Regarding what I have done, what I have done is not illegal. It's not specified and it's not restrained. We can discuss about it. It's not seen as a good thing but it is not a violation of the law. I know that not everything is legal is right to do. Because you have many things that are legal but they're not right. All the wrong things that you do are not done with bad intentions.

Of course I have a point of view, but it;’s not important to other points of view. Lampard says he doesn’t believe I have bad intentions.

He believes that I violated the fair play spirit so I have to adapt to the rules that are linked to English football.

Nobody ignores that all professional members of football want to work in English football.

We have some conclusions, we have some analysis that says the Championship is the 6th biggest competition in the world. With very strong arguments. If the authorities want to protect the competition, condemning those who behave with bad intentions or those who affect the prestige of the league with their behaviour, they create a product with occupies the space it occupies.

So we have to respect the procedures that are chosen and the sanctions on those who make mistakes.

I regret to make the exposition I made now, because I don;’t like to talk about me because as for my job. As I am overexposed to the media, I don’t like being in the media too much. But this explanation is important. When you watch an opponent. You’re looking for specific information.

You want to know the starting XI, the tactical system they will use and hte strategic decisions on set pieces. These are the 3 main axis that the head coach usually analyses. When you watch the activity of the opponent, you get this kind of information the day before the game or you confirm the information you already have. Obviously it’s not information that allows you to build a project which allows you to analyse the game. This is not the norm.

I repeat again: I’m not trying to justify my behaviour. As Lampard said, but behaviour cannot be justified.

And that he does not accept the explanation I gave. And he said the information allowed him to know how to train a team abroad one day.

17:19
He continues...
Of course if you obeserve the situation, we call it spying and we say it’s spying.

I can’t say it’s the right thing to do.

What I’m trying to explain, I didn’t have bad intentions and I didn’t try to get an unfair sports advantage. I did it because it was not illegal and not violating a specific norm. You have norms that are linked to habits, you have norms that are linked to social condemnation ad you have norms linked to what the law says.

17:17
He begins
I called this press conference because we have the classic press conference before playing Stoke City.

And I thought the spy matter would take time I would like to dedicate to the game. My goal regarding this situation of which I am the only one responsible.

I wouldn’t like to mix it with the games and the play.

And if you allow me I would like to make a summary of what happened.

It’s about watching from a public space an activity that is realised in a private space without the agreement with the goal of both gaining sports advantage and hurting the fair play.

I already said I was the only one responsible for this situation. The club is not responsible whatsoever and nobody on my staff is responsible for it.

The person who did that followed my orders and I am the only one responsible.

Many people made an opinion on my behaviour. Many expressing, condemning the behaviour, saying that it was not ethical, that it was immoral. That it was violating of affecting fair play. That it was cheating. This club thought it was obliged to present public excuses to Derby County.

And I was pubicaly told that my behaviour was not respecting the principles of integrity which is the basis of the club.

Many managers, ex-footballers and footballers thought my behaviour was respectfulness. The last point of this situation is that the league after a complaint made by Derby County decided to open an investigation on my behaviour. So they will evaluate if I behaved bad and if my behavoiur affected the prestige of the club or the league.

One other point I would like to talk about is that I’m going to make it easier for the investigation of the league.

I’m going to give the information it needs and I assume the fact that my behaviour is heard from the most extreme position.

In a few words I can tell you we observed all the rivals we played against and we watched all the training sessions of the opponents before we played against the.

My goal is to make the investigation easier and I don’t think that something is going to make worse what they are looking for than what I’m saying right now.

By doing that I assume the possible sanction of the authorities.

I don’t want to compare my behaviour, my situation with previous behaviours regarding this subject.

I’ve heard that there are other behaviours which also effect the fairplay but I don’t want to defame myself by attacking others. I don’t want to point to any other situation that is not linked to my responsibility.

Regarding what I’ve done, it’s not illegal. It’s not specified, it’s not described, its’ not restrained. We can discuss it, it’s not seen as a good thing, but it’s not a violation of the law.

I know that not everything that’s legal is not right to do. You have many things that are legal, but not right, This is true as the fact that all the wrong things you do are not done with bad intention.

Those who behave bad, regarding the subject we talk about, getting information, advantages with what is called cheating behaviour. That’s why I repeat again, it’s not because it’s legal that it’s the right thing to do.

And it’s not because you have a wrong behaviour that you have bad intentions or the intention to cheat.

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by liquidfootball2 » 16 Jan 2019, 17:38

Excuse any repetition in the last post but too confusing on the phone.

Basically admitted 'spying' on all opponents, what the authorities do is another matter and whether its widespread and everyone does it etc.....

There's also the issue whether as was the case at Derby, it's all done legally outside from the private grounds and on the public highway with binoculars which anyone can do.

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by forestfan » 16 Jan 2019, 19:43

Will we see a rush to build indoor training complexes with security on the door now? :lol:

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by jimmy ching » 17 Jan 2019, 04:08

I get the feeling Bielsa would trounce us all at fantasy football.

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Re: THE CHAMPIONSHIP 2018-19

Post by jimmy ching » 18 Jan 2019, 12:13

Bielsabub Babes 62

What a week and a lot has been written. Leeds are heading to the number one Brexit town, to have a potter around. Stoke for me, brings images of active Victorian times and values. The Wedgewoods, the Moorcroft’s and of course Mr Pankhurst himself.
Now they have Bet365, the Michelin Tyre Centre and yes, Fuchs Petrolub’s head office. I hope Marcelo is prepared.
Who could doubt Bielsa knowing that this is the club that has given Leeds their heaviest defeat ever. Yes, Stoke is a bogey team for Leeds. I’ve experienced a few humiliating results caused by this bunch.
The Whites go to into this match, well rested after an 8 day break. Stoke have had 2 games in the last week. Their new manager has a lot of work to do. It must have been quite disheartening for him to see Bielsa show that he probably knows his middle name and he’s only just arrived on the block.
Marcelo, then pushes him further by using the Rugby Union tradition of announcing his team two days before.
The way Bielsa is dealing with the muddying of his character is refreshing to watch. People can see how men at the top of their profession tend to have an OCD about them. How many fantasy football pundits can relate to him? He’s got his toys but they never seem quite enough for him. Obsessive traits can lead you down the wrong path sometimes.

Is Bielsa a beast? To me, no. To others yes. From what I’ve read in the coverage of the spygate saga, I’ve come to the conclusion, Bielsa is Marmite.
It’s the reverse first day fixtures time. Stoke still haven’t had that expected come back from that 1st day defeat. They are in a state of change. For this I’ll go for 2-1 to Leeds.

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