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Important Update on Gameweek 18

A forum for Totel Football - the weekly tote-style fantasy football game
bennyc
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Re: Important Update on Gameweek 18

Post by bennyc » 20 Dec 2010, 21:59

I'm aware that I'm regarded by TF as something of a persona non grata on this forum due to my previous outspoken views about this game - generally gripes at terms and conditions. So the comments below are not going to be welcomed.

I entered this week with Chrispyb and we are going to win the competition. When we entered we did so (like everyone else) under the assumption that we were playing for a guaranteed prize pool of £833 (like every week).

TF are trying to argue they don't have to pay because they had to refund invalid entries but this argument is illogical.

When you click on your advertising banners placed around FISO the screen you are directed to (your home page) says in bold letters - prize pool this week is £833.

By guaranteeing the prize pool it doesn't matter whether 1 person plays or 1,000 - the pool is guaranteed. If 1,000 people play then the pool grows and TF get their 20% share. If 1 person plays then they scoop the lot.

Your argument that you can cancel entries that are invalid and reduce the pot is correct providing it doesn't reduce the GUARANTEED pool.

TF had ample opportunity to cancel this game before 3pm on Saturday. It was farcical but some of us took the opportunity to enter teams that were valid under the T+C's. Fair play to Punter who got in 19 teams in less than an hour with minimal exposure to West Brom and Wolves players but nailing Nelsen and Parker in pretty much every team. Anyone know who he is?

Both Chris and myself are expecting TF to honour the T+C's and pay out the correct amount - i.e the share of the £833 that we are entitled to - which given the fact there were only 23 teams valid (not sure what the bottom three teams with 0 points are doing on the leaderboard nor Punters teams in tied 21st and 23rd which have 3 players snowed off making them invalid) means the top 1.15 places are paid - i.e. just Chris.

TF will note that all views aired on here and the other forum which TF post on agree with the assertion that the pool was guaranteed.

MESSAGE FROM TF ON SUNDAY

The are a few teams which remain valied in the competition.. Some shrewdies saw the opportunities efforded by banking on the few games that went ahead.

We are reviewing the process we use to void teams - just want to ensure that there are no hiccups in new functionality we have added to deal with suspended/cancelled games. Our developer is unavailable at present (xmas shopping), but he will get to this during the afternoon and an updated leaderboard will be presented this afternoon/evening.

The total pool is guaranteed to €1,000 so we will be making up the shortfall in the pool. However, most of the pool will be returned to customers to pay for voided bets so the prize pool will be very much depleted. Afraid no soft Xmas presents available to customers this week-end.



The sentence highlighted in blue confirms TF's commitment to the guaranteed pool.

Sorry if you think this is an unreasonable stance but everyone enters with a firm understanding of the T+C's.
Last edited by bennyc on 21 Dec 2010, 00:48, edited 6 times in total.

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tedbull
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Re: Important Update on Gameweek 18

Post by tedbull » 20 Dec 2010, 22:02

Well done chrispyb and bennyc. TF should absolutely honour their guaranteed pool.

I've no doubt that what they are trying to do is escape from a clear obligation to pay.

bennyc
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Re: Important Update on Gameweek 18

Post by bennyc » 21 Dec 2010, 11:35

You have not paid out according to your terms and conditions. Please provide a full written response as to why not on here so all members can see why not.

This matter will now be referred to the gambling commission and I will contact admin to ask them to look into whether it's appropriate for FISO to carry adverts for a company who do not live up to their promises.

You have clearly stated on this thread that prize pool is GUARANTEED as being 1,000 euros.

How on earth do you think you can get away with not paying out?

Disgraceful.

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tedbull
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Re: Important Update on Gameweek 18

Post by tedbull » 21 Dec 2010, 12:19

And why pay out to 2 places? Makes no sense.

You don't pay out decimal places. In fact last week 5% of total entries would have been 11.95 but you paid to 11th place. That's fair enough... but why the sudden change of heart? There were 28 teams on the leaderboard (pay out 1.4 places) , 3 of which had no players and at least another 2 I saw from 'punter' that had 3 players from postponed matches. So a maximum of 23 teams gives payouts to 1.15 places. All of a sudden you're rounding up to 2 payout places. You can't just make this shit up as you go along!

That said, if you base the comp incorrectly on there being 213 entries, factored down to a limited pool due to this magical cancellation rule you came up with then paying out just 1 or 2 seems odd too. Why not pay out 10 places? There'd be fk all to go around but that would just highlight what you've pulled this week.

Well done to bennyc and chrispyb on the win... You won GBP833 this week (actual payout GBP156.68 :shock: ) and I hope you get what's owed to you by whatever means you deem necessary.
Last edited by tedbull on 21 Dec 2010, 12:28, edited 1 time in total.

bennyc
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Re: Important Update on Gameweek 18

Post by bennyc » 21 Dec 2010, 12:22

Cheers Ted.

In terms of incompetence this is right up there with their decision to use FAN GENERATED ratings to award bonus points.

You are right about the bizarre decision to pay down to second. All this highlights the problems that occur if clear terms and conditions aren't followed on a consistent basis.

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Re: Important Update on Gameweek 18

Post by Totelfootball » 21 Dec 2010, 13:15

Explanation of the payout is as previously posted... We have acted precisely within the rules as we see them. We have updated the rules in order to provide further clarification of this position for future events.

We always pay out to the top 5% of managers & we always round up to the nearest whole number of places. This has been consistent throughout.
" In fact last week 5% of total entries would have been 11.95 but you paid to 11th place".
This is not correct. We paid to joint 11th place, so we paid out the top 15 players during gameweek 17. In the case of Gameweek 18, 1.15 places rounded up requires that we pay out on joint 2nd place also.

bennyc
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Re: Important Update on Gameweek 18

Post by bennyc » 21 Dec 2010, 13:23

Totelfootball wrote:Explanation of the payout is as previously posted... We have acted precisely within the rules as we see them. We have updated the rules in order to provide further clarification of this position for future events.

We always pay out to the top 5% of managers & we always round up to the nearest whole number of places. This has been consistent throughout.
" In fact last week 5% of total entries would have been 11.95 but you paid to 11th place".
This is not correct. We paid to joint 11th place, so we paid out the top 15 players during gameweek 17. In the case of Gameweek 18, 1.15 places rounded up requires that we pay out on joint 2nd place also.


This will be being referred to the gambling commission this afternoon.

You are cheating your customers by promoting a guaranteed prize pool that is not guaranteed.

Every time you f*ck up you then change your T+C's and presume that resolves the issue - it doesn't.

Your argument about rounding up prizes etc. is also completely wrong. You haven't paid out the top 15 players last week - you paid out the top 11 including ties which you were obliged to do.

Just so you are aware - I will be adding a warning to any new threads you post on this forum warning people that your payout is not guaranteed.

I feel totally cheated.

(Just so you aware i have dated screenshots of the terms and conditions prior to this weekend). Tedbull also has copies.
Last edited by bennyc on 21 Dec 2010, 13:27, edited 1 time in total.

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tedbull
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Re: Important Update on Gameweek 18

Post by tedbull » 21 Dec 2010, 13:27

Totelfootball wrote:We have acted precisely within the rules as we see them. We have updated the rules in order to provide further clarification of this position for future events.
From the website...
New TF Rule wrote:In the event that 5 or less games are completed in any gameweek, then the total pool will be reduced by the amount of the voided bets refunded to customers. In this scenario there will be no minimum guaranteed pool.
This isn't further clarification - it's a brand new rule and just highlights what you've done this week! So if there are just 3 cancellations you will now meet the 'guaranteed' pool. There was no such rule this week so you should have met it with 7 cancellations.
Last edited by tedbull on 21 Dec 2010, 13:28, edited 1 time in total.

bennyc
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Re: Important Update on Gameweek 18

Post by bennyc » 21 Dec 2010, 13:28

tedbull wrote:
New TF Rule wrote:In the event that 5 or less games are completed in any gameweek, then the total pool will be reduced by the amount of the voided bets refunded to customers. In this scenario there will be no minimum guaranteed pool.
This isn't clarification - it's a brand new rule and just highlights what you've done this week! So if there are just 3 cancellations you will now meet the 'guaranteed' pool. There was no such rule this week so you should have met it with 7 cancellations.

This new rule clearly implies that the pool was guaranteed before the change. Cheers TF - got a print out of that as well.

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ronny10
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Re: Important Update on Gameweek 18

Post by ronny10 » 21 Dec 2010, 13:43

This is disgusting. I sincerely hope that Benny and Chris get there money but I for one will never touch this game again and agree that FISO should not advertise it either.

TF you should be ashamed :roll:

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Re: Important Update on Gameweek 18

Post by Richt » 21 Dec 2010, 13:45

ronny10 wrote:This is disgusting. I sincerely hope that Benny and Chris get there money but I for one will never touch this game again and agree that FISO should not advertise it either.

TF you should be ashamed :roll:
+ 1

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chrispyb
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Re: Important Update on Gameweek 18

Post by chrispyb » 21 Dec 2010, 14:01

Absoloute discrace :twisted: You have a GUARANTEED POOL, that IS GUARANTEED regardless of entries. Yet further negative feedback and publicity for the game. Now you wondered why numbers had been dropping........................

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ronny10
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Re: Important Update on Gameweek 18

Post by ronny10 » 21 Dec 2010, 16:29

TF is basically using a tactic employed by most poker internet sites with tournaments, using a GUARANTEED pool to draw in players, wether they get enough players to cover that pool is there risk.

You cannot use the word GUARANTEED without being prepared to payout the full amount WHATEVER circumstances affect the game. If there is a risk you may not cover that prize with entries then you should seriously consider what words you use in advertising your game. If there is a risk with other circumstances (games called off) affecting the game then you really should have these rulings in place from an early stage, BUT AT NO POINT should you be using the word GUARANTEED unless that is the minimum amount you will payout, WHATEVER THE CIRCUMSTANCES :!:

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