To see less ads Register or Login ----- Daily Fantasy Sports games 18+

Fiso League Structure

A forum for discussion on the Xpert Eleven Fantasy Management Simulation game
User avatar
Karrde
Sir Stormtrooper
Posts: 19895
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: Deciding what to BBQ
FS Record: Profitable
Contact:

Fiso League Structure

Post by Karrde »

I pondered this in pre-season, but felt it was a bad time to bring up the subject as it could have altered promotions and relegations that had been fought for fair and square.

Im considering bringing the league back to 2 divisions.

The seasons dont last very long so achievements dont feel that important as the next is upon us so fast... and with so few matches, im not sure that everyone is getting enough time to build up youth properly and in the long term thats going to damage the league. Plus I would imagine the small league and 3 up 3 down makes the middle division a nightmare to be in.

Is there a strong opinion to keep the 3 up 3 down, 3 division for the long term, or do we want to go to 2 divisons again? If there is a desire to change, then this is early enough in the season for everyone to know and understand what alterations this will make to promotion/relegation so nobody will feel hard done by.

User avatar
Richt
FISO Knight
Posts: 11176
Joined: 26 Jul 2007, 12:12
Location: South West England.
FS Record: Averagely consistant.

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by Richt »

Personally I would prefer to go back to 2 divisions.

I think I speak one behalf of myself and my brother. Both of our teams appear to be too strong for the middle division and too weak for the top division.

User avatar
Richt
FISO Knight
Posts: 11176
Joined: 26 Jul 2007, 12:12
Location: South West England.
FS Record: Averagely consistant.

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by Richt »

Chewie has just said "the bigger the divisions the better".

User avatar
Surprised
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 26528
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
Location: Home
FS Record: TFFOSM MotW in 2008 and MotM in 2003. 78th overall in TFFO for 2002/3 and 2003/4

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by Surprised »

2 divisions is my preference as it gives more chance to get DV up.
The small league with 3 up, 3 down is a nightmare as coming to the last match a team can still face relegation or promotion.

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Viscount
Posts: 108502
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by blahblah »

Not bothered either way, but 3 up and down in Div's of 8 is a bit much, imho. (With no fear of stating the obvious: more games in a season mean more games needed for DV=AF, it is not an absolute gain per match, but relative to the length of the season.)

chewie1
Treebeard
Posts: 139
Joined: 28 Jun 2011, 18:29

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by chewie1 »

In the 4 private leagues I play in 2 of them have league sizes of 10. Which I think is a great number. As like you say it gives a better chance to develop your squad, it also allows for a team to have a dip in form or a bad run and still recover to make a challange for the top or fight of relegation.


2 divisions would be thumbs up from me.

User avatar
Beerfuelledman
FISO Knight
Posts: 13220
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
Location: In Norn Iron
FS Record: FISO 17/18 FPL Cash Draft League Winner

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by Beerfuelledman »

Happy to return to 2 divisions also.

User avatar
Mintman
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 2030
Joined: 28 Jan 2009, 10:32
Location: Same shit, different day...
FS Record: I've won stuff...

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by Mintman »

Oh God, no!! Personally feel the structure is spot on. Seasons would be too long, and there would be too many meaningless games towards the end of the seasons. It would take lesser/newer teams much longer to catch up the "established" teams as you would only have 4 seasons a year as opposed to 6. Would make no difference to development as ME is relative to the size of the league anyway.

User avatar
Karrde
Sir Stormtrooper
Posts: 19895
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: Deciding what to BBQ
FS Record: Profitable
Contact:

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by Karrde »

I know ME is relative, but in a smaller league, but it still leaves little wiggle room should a red arrow come in, even a week injury is a massive deal. It is making it harder to develop a full squad for those catching up. Especially as its desirable to have a big squad or you eventually run out of players to sell as farming stops.

The ideal is to get 6 extra teams so each division has 2 more.

Looks like number of divisions up for debate... what about the option of keeping it as it is, but switching to 2 up 2 down. I wamt promotion and relegation to mean something more than half the teams seeing fresh opposition every 5 minute.

We have a couple of weeks to debate this anyway, so keep the flow coming.

User avatar
crispybits
Dumbledore
Posts: 5499
Joined: 10 Aug 2010, 09:18
FS Record: FISO Apprentice Champion 2011-2012, Xpert11 FBT winner season 7

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by crispybits »

As one of the newer and less experienced players in the league I would vote for keeping it at 8 teams per division. The fun of the game comes from competition and development, and introducing more meaningless games towards the ends of seasons and less CRs would be a step backwards imo.

I would be more open to the promotion / relegation structure changing, but in the same breath I like 3 up 3 down even with the 8 team divisions. In the YDL I'm sitting in the second of 4 divisions and it's more fun if anything knowing that everyone will be scrapping for points right to the end of the season.

Maybe an alternative to the straight ladder system would be to have 1 top division and 2 second divisions? I realise it wouldn't be universally popular, and I'm not sold on it totally myself, just bringing it up as a suggestion, but a two winners and a play off between the second place teams up and 3 down would maybe mix it up a bit more (if that's even a possible setting)? Like I said just thinking out loud and throwing an idea in rather than campaigning for something I really believe in there though....

User avatar
Karrde
Sir Stormtrooper
Posts: 19895
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: Deciding what to BBQ
FS Record: Profitable
Contact:

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by Karrde »

2 division 2s... That has merit. Nice thinking.

User avatar
Ashers
FISO Knight
Posts: 19810
Joined: 21 Jul 2008, 17:31
Location: Stroud
FS Record: OFL Fantasy Fives Winner 2011/2012, SDT wins WDT, weekly, monthly and seasonal prizes. Fantasy Darts daily winner, TFFO mini league winner & FISO U21 Threes Champs 13.
Contact:

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by Ashers »

Karrde wrote:2 division 2s... That has merit. Nice thinking.
Like that idea.

User avatar
WilBert
Dumbledore
Posts: 7767
Joined: 28 Dec 2009, 21:07
Location: 2nd in SP4's Ashes comp.

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by WilBert »

The FISO league should be hard. Either to keep a team at the top while winning or developing a team to challenge.

Changing to a longer season format would benefit those who have a developed squad or a near developed squad and, maybe, those with a lot of dish to buy 16/4 superstars and develop them slowly.

I would vote for anything that keeps the length of the seasons the same. I like crispy's idea.

A few more ideas:-

- Level the playing field by sacking everyone apart from teams between 90 and 100 mill then everyone joins with new teams around that value
- Start a new league from scratch
- Have a cup every 4 seasons

User avatar
Richt
FISO Knight
Posts: 11176
Joined: 26 Jul 2007, 12:12
Location: South West England.
FS Record: Averagely consistant.

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by Richt »

I have spent just short of 3 years building Nam Town. If the league was re-started I would most likely give up the FISO league. Not wishing to sound like a kid throwing a strop, but I'd hate to see all that work go to waste.

User avatar
crispybits
Dumbledore
Posts: 5499
Joined: 10 Aug 2010, 09:18
FS Record: FISO Apprentice Champion 2011-2012, Xpert11 FBT winner season 7

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by crispybits »

Agree with Rich - league reset is totally unappealing (however it's done)

If you want to equalise things maybe a better way (again I don't know if this is actually possible) would be to set a season with 1 division of 24, then work downwards from the middle all the way down in turn to the weakest giving every team a boost - wouldnt affect the top half of teams at all but anyone under average gets moved up to the average. Cancel the season (this is the bit I'm not sure if it can be done) annd restart another one in the structure of your choice?

I wouldnt vote for that though, as Wi1bert says it's meant to be difficult. Anything that takes any of the challenge out of things makes the league weaker rather than stronger imo.

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Viscount
Posts: 108502
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by blahblah »

crispybits wrote: Maybe an alternative to the straight ladder system would be to have 1 top division and 2 second divisions? I realise it wouldn't be universally popular, and I'm not sold on it totally myself, just bringing it up as a suggestion, but a two winners and a play off between the second place teams up and 3 down would maybe mix it up a bit more (if that's even a possible setting)? Like I said just thinking out loud and throwing an idea in rather than campaigning for something I really believe in there though....
Is this possible, I thought it went to the best Runner-Up.
Karrde wrote: I know ME is relative, but in a smaller league, but it still leaves little wiggle room should a red arrow come in, even a week injury is a massive deal. It is making it harder to develop a full squad for those catching up. Especially as its desirable to have a big squad or you eventually run out of players to sell as farming stops.
Having 2 up 2 down would alleviate this a bit, and mean Div 1 is a stepping stone to the top flight as 4 rather than 2 teams would stay there. (Last season there were 4 or 5 teams that could go up or down, mathematically, before the last game. I doubt that this helped with ME and DV?)

User avatar
WilBert
Dumbledore
Posts: 7767
Joined: 28 Dec 2009, 21:07
Location: 2nd in SP4's Ashes comp.

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by WilBert »

It was just a couple of suggestions. Boosting a team can only happen once though and a few teams have had it already.

User avatar
Karrde
Sir Stormtrooper
Posts: 19895
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: Deciding what to BBQ
FS Record: Profitable
Contact:

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by Karrde »

Once you set a season, you cant undo it. So that is a non starter.

Im not ripping up 3 years work just to have everyone start at the same time, I would be off if that was the case. I know I say that from a lofty position, but there are leagues where I have started a heap of seasons after everyone else and I have just got on with it, and ended up winning the title eventually... and wouldnt have had it any other way.
Changing to a longer season format would benefit those who have a developed squad or a near developed squad and, maybe, those with a lot of dish to buy 16/4 superstars and develop them slowly.
I would argue that this would benefit everyone the same. At the moment its much harder for teams to catch up because the seasons are so short, a weeks injury or 2 red arrows in a row can have a devastating impact.

User avatar
crispybits
Dumbledore
Posts: 5499
Joined: 10 Aug 2010, 09:18
FS Record: FISO Apprentice Champion 2011-2012, Xpert11 FBT winner season 7

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by crispybits »

And from a lowly standpoint I would disagree Karrde. Longer seasons means that instead of facing 2+ years to mould and develop a squad from scratch we'd be looking at 3+ years. I don't begrudge the great squads the long timers have (unless they just jumped into one that someone else has created, but that's a whole different can of worms) because they've put in the time to build them, but you have to look at it from a newbie perspective too.

Everyone is dealing with the same with regards to red arrows and week+ injuries. I've had them and still managed to single the player several times across my various different teams. It's part of the challenge and it affects the top guys and the bottom guys just the same, it's not a disadvantage for the little guys alone.

What would be a disadvantage for the little guys alone is making it so it takes 50% longer to start to see improvements when it's already a project that will take years as it stands. I've hardly won a game in 3+ seasons, which means 6 months of losing twice a week almost every week, and I accepted that because I knew that it was the price I had to pay to have a good squad in another 12 months time and be climbing and competing. If you're extending that time by 50% then that's a kick in the teeth for anyone down the bottom trying to improve.

I can see why you're suggesting it, but from the perspective you get from the bottom of the ladder it stinks of "I'm alright Jack and I want to make it easier for me to stay up here" (not suggesting that was your motivation, just that's what it can sound like from down here at the bottom)

User avatar
WilBert
Dumbledore
Posts: 7767
Joined: 28 Dec 2009, 21:07
Location: 2nd in SP4's Ashes comp.

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by WilBert »

I would argue that longer seasons also mean more training time (for those who can afford it), more average form nodes, more time to ME subs (whilst still winning games) so MUCH less risk in bringing youngsters through.

Sorry you feel me jumping into Bespoke is a can of worms crispy :cry: :cry: :cry: :mrgreen: :P

User avatar
crispybits
Dumbledore
Posts: 5499
Joined: 10 Aug 2010, 09:18
FS Record: FISO Apprentice Champion 2011-2012, Xpert11 FBT winner season 7

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by crispybits »

lol - not something I feel strongly enough about to cause problems Wi1bert, just a belief that everyone should start from the same point (ie a new squad with a boost once the league is more than 10 seasons old) and have to claw and scratch and bite and gouge their way to the top :twisted:

Make it 1 up 1 down for all that it makes a difference to me, I don't think that side of things matters too much, but please don't expand the seasons and make a long term project into a lifetime project :P

User avatar
Beerfuelledman
FISO Knight
Posts: 13220
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
Location: In Norn Iron
FS Record: FISO 17/18 FPL Cash Draft League Winner

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by Beerfuelledman »

WilBert wrote:Sorry you feel me jumping into Bespoke is a can of worms crispy :cry: :cry: :cry: :mrgreen: :P
If the inference is me then, The Federation hadn't won anything in 5-6 seasons and were relegated to Division 1 when I took over, partly due to the two 4sk Goalkeepers. I took them back to the top league and have kept them there, though in 6 seasons I havent won it yet. I'm still trying and I would resent the efforts put in to date to be scrubbed so others think they have it fairer.

User avatar
WilBert
Dumbledore
Posts: 7767
Joined: 28 Dec 2009, 21:07
Location: 2nd in SP4's Ashes comp.

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by WilBert »

The challenge of trying to keep Bespoke competitive was something different to me at the time and Logs was my mentor. The game would be boring if all my teams were build from scratch teams but I do miss Neos and wonder what could have been :D

Just checked, I've managed Bespoke as long as Logs did now :O Might be time for a name change soon.

User avatar
crispybits
Dumbledore
Posts: 5499
Joined: 10 Aug 2010, 09:18
FS Record: FISO Apprentice Champion 2011-2012, Xpert11 FBT winner season 7

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by crispybits »

Oh god sorry I really didnt mean to open the can of worms. For the record it wasn't aimed at any one individual, just a nod towards my belief that you build your own team from the ground up. I'm not trying to start a fight in here :P

And for the record it could just as easily have been aimed at myself in the YDL - I got told to take an existing team there and I did, still a work in progress turning them around but managed to get and hold on to a promotion so far so I'm not totally whiter than white in that respect either :P

User avatar
Ashers
FISO Knight
Posts: 19810
Joined: 21 Jul 2008, 17:31
Location: Stroud
FS Record: OFL Fantasy Fives Winner 2011/2012, SDT wins WDT, weekly, monthly and seasonal prizes. Fantasy Darts daily winner, TFFO mini league winner & FISO U21 Threes Champs 13.
Contact:

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by Ashers »

I have managed Arsenal Utd since season three and would leave it if that hard work was undone.

I am happy to do what ever with the league, but not lose Arsenal Utd.

User avatar
WilBert
Dumbledore
Posts: 7767
Joined: 28 Dec 2009, 21:07
Location: 2nd in SP4's Ashes comp.

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by WilBert »

No offence taken here crispy I know what you mean from a purist point of view. I look forward to one of your teams hitting the heights and see how you struggle to keep them there though.

Without wanting to sound self righteous; without either or both The Feds/Bespoke TPR would not have had much of a challenge recently and both BFM and I have had to make sacrifices to develpment to keep the challenge strong. That will certainly change in the next few seasons when Bespoke is swallowed by the pack.

Without us it would have been an SPL without Rangers. :P

chewie1
Treebeard
Posts: 139
Joined: 28 Jun 2011, 18:29

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by chewie1 »

When I took over from the old Bespoke (now Kashyyyk Knights) both Rich and Logs ripped me to pieces besause I sold a lot of the oldies and virtually destroyed the old side.

They were right I made some bad mistakes and sold some I regretted, I soon found myself at the very bottom of the fiso league, but after a lot of hard work (and skill :wink: ) I fought my way into the top division.
Yes I came straight back down but I now know what I have to do to challange kardde, Bfm and w1lbert for that title, if you look at my squad I have invested in some youth that I hope to get on the 22/9 path, with these players and some more hard work I feel in the distant future I could be in the position to challange the big boys. (I also have an enormous bank balance ready for this too)
The point I'm trying to make is if we reset the teams we will gain jack shit, the new fiso league would then only favour who landed the best squad, it will be a carbon copy of patricians league where i'm preparing for the future and not worrying about the present.

So yes the top dogs are out in front but if we knuckled down and worked hard we are all capable of catching them, there are no quick fixes to doing this.

User avatar
Ashers
FISO Knight
Posts: 19810
Joined: 21 Jul 2008, 17:31
Location: Stroud
FS Record: OFL Fantasy Fives Winner 2011/2012, SDT wins WDT, weekly, monthly and seasonal prizes. Fantasy Darts daily winner, TFFO mini league winner & FISO U21 Threes Champs 13.
Contact:

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by Ashers »

Totally with you there Chewie.

I went up to the top Division twice, but did not have the players coming in to back the team up.

Now have taken a hit last season and probably this to get the team back on track.

User avatar
Mintman
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 2030
Joined: 28 Jan 2009, 10:32
Location: Same shit, different day...
FS Record: I've won stuff...

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by Mintman »

For me resetting the league is not an option!! Too much history and time invested by many, and it would be a damn shame if that was to be lost!! I just think that longer seasons favour the "established" teams and fully agree with crispy's post about it. Everybody is in the same boat regarding DV, ME and injuries and the like. For instance if a new team joins the "2 Division" league it would take them say 12-14 seasons to build a decentish conveyor side which would be 2 years with 8 div sides and over 3 with 12 div sides.

Isn't part of the fun of this game building to, and achieving the best possible CR? Why reduce the amount of fun by making the time gaps bigger between each one??

User avatar
blahblah
FISO Viscount
Posts: 108502
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:46
Location: .. he thinks that he knows something which he doesn't, whereas I am quite concious of my ignorance.

Re: Fiso League Structure

Post by blahblah »

I don't think the reset idea is a goer, tbh. The issue is division size\promotion numbers etc for next season? 2 up 2 down would be fine by me, as it would provide some consistency in the middle division. (Only having two staying in the division means it has no regular teams and so no character etc.)

I wouldn't be against a CL with 8 going into the KO, which will only mean 1 week of nothingness for those who don't qualify. I don't know if the Groups would be the same every season, or if they are freshly created from a Ranking of Squad Strength or similar, if we wanted it to go that way long-term.

View Latest: 1 Day View Your posts
Post Reply

Return to “Xpert Eleven”