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Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

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Who?

Sigurdson 8.0
44
80%
Richarlison 8.0
11
20%
 
Total votes: 55

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Klopp-o-matic
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Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Klopp-o-matic » 09 Aug 2019, 14:28

I asked this question in another thread but would like a poll about it.

Won't have 'both' or 'none' as alternative because I want to see who of them to pick.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Taff Murray » 09 Aug 2019, 14:48

Klopp-o-matic wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 14:28
I asked this question in another thread but would like a poll about it.

Won't have 'both' or 'none' as alternative because I want to see who of them to pick.
If it's for long term then I would go for Siggy as a set and forget. If you want a quick burst to then Xfer out then it's Richarlison. BUT this all depends on what your philosophy around these two will be. Sadly it's not a black & white question IMHO.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Football Hero » 09 Aug 2019, 14:59

Taff Murray wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 14:48
Klopp-o-matic wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 14:28
I asked this question in another thread but would like a poll about it.

Won't have 'both' or 'none' as alternative because I want to see who of them to pick.
If it's for long term then I would go for Siggy as a set and forget. If you want a quick burst to then Xfer out then it's Richarlison. BUT this all depends on what your philosophy around these two will be. Sadly it's not a black & white question IMHO.
I don't get this. Surely if Sigurdsson is the better bet for the long term then he is also the better bet for the short term? I mean if a player is the better bet then they are the better bet period, and the long term is really just lots of short term sequences strung together right?

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Klopp-o-matic » 09 Aug 2019, 15:02

10-1 to Siggy so far. That suprises me a little. "Why no love for Richarlison"?

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Pirlo's Beard » 09 Aug 2019, 15:12

Klopp-o-matic wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 15:02
"Why no love for Richarlison"?
I'd say the fact he only had 45 minutes of a pre-season might have something to do with it.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Klopp-o-matic » 09 Aug 2019, 15:33

Pirlo's Beard wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 15:12
Klopp-o-matic wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 15:02
"Why no love for Richarlison"?
I'd say the fact he only had 45 minutes of a pre-season might have something to do with it.
Is there any risk he is not fit to start?

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Taff Murray » 09 Aug 2019, 15:48

Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 14:59
I don't get this. Surely if Sigurdsson is the better bet for the long term then he is also the better bet for the short term? I mean if a player is the better bet then they are the better bet period, and the long term is really just lots of short term sequences strung together right?
Sadly it doesn't always work like that in my experience.

In this example for instance Siggy has traditionally been a consistent week in/week out scorer of FPL points but doesn't tend to have massive hauls. However he gets a top end total over the course of a season (Usually Top10 Mids). Whereas Richarlison is a more streaky player who tends to score in bursts and then do nothing for weeks. With him it's all about catching those bursts. So far he has tended to burst early in a season, and with Evertons early fixtures, he might be a good one to start off with but by end of September do nothing until Christmas. So you have to manage having him in your team. That is why I asked the question of the OP.

Over the course of a season I would back Siggy to outscore Richarlison but over the course of any smaller sections of the season Richarlison could outscore Siggy in that particular block. It's a Tortoise and Hare situation.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Pirlo's Beard » 09 Aug 2019, 16:26

Klopp-o-matic wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 15:33
Is there any risk he is not fit to start?
It's hard to know I suppose. One half of football isn't exactly great pre-season prep, but with a full week of training behind him Silva might be happy to throw him straight in.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by blahblah » 09 Aug 2019, 16:30

Pirlo's Beard wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 15:12
Klopp-o-matic wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 15:02
"Why no love for Richarlison"?
I'd say the fact he only had 45 minutes of a pre-season might have something to do with it.
Which is why None is my answer.

As above iggy for the long term makes sense, but Rich has started his 2 other Prme seasons on fire so would be my pick.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Mo Bot » 09 Aug 2019, 16:34

Everton's recruitment makes their attacking midfield a bit crowded IMO in the long term.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Football Hero » 09 Aug 2019, 16:42

Taff Murray wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 15:48
Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 14:59
I don't get this. Surely if Sigurdsson is the better bet for the long term then he is also the better bet for the short term? I mean if a player is the better bet then they are the better bet period, and the long term is really just lots of short term sequences strung together right?
Sadly it doesn't always work like that in my experience.

In this example for instance Siggy has traditionally been a consistent week in/week out scorer of FPL points but doesn't tend to have massive hauls. However he gets a top end total over the course of a season (Usually Top10 Mids). Whereas Richarlison is a more streaky player who tends to score in bursts and then do nothing for weeks. With him it's all about catching those bursts. So far he has tended to burst early in a season, and with Evertons early fixtures, he might be a good one to start off with but by end of September do nothing until Christmas. So you have to manage having him in your team. That is why I asked the question of the OP.

Over the course of a season I would back Siggy to outscore Richarlison but over the course of any smaller sections of the season Richarlison could outscore Siggy in that particular block. It's a Tortoise and Hare situation.
This is wrong.

You could have Richarlison and have one of his poor runs of points, you won't know in advance. If Sigurdsson is getting more points over the season then he is likely 'hauling' more but regardless is getting better scores from week-to-week on average. It is impossible for Richarlison to be the better mathematical pick if he is scoring less points for the same price.

Now if you thought that Richarlison would outscore Sigurdsson over the season, then that would be different, but you don't think that, you believe Sigurdsson will score more points and since that is the case then you should believe that Sigurdsson is also the better pick in any given gameweek or run of gameweeks.

Even if you think Richarlison 'hauls more' or is more 'explosive' it doesn't matter if he ends up getting less points overall than Sigurdsson. Richarlison would end up having to blank more than Sigurdsson for Sigurdsson to beat him, and you want to avoid blanks just as much as you want to get hauls.

So yeah, your logic is flawed.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by blahblah » 09 Aug 2019, 16:47

What about Rich's rabid starts to seasons, and getting far less points in the last third of both seasons?

In theory there are no right or wrong before GW1, but there are after however many games it takes for the mud to clear...... except this one, lol

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Klopp-o-matic » 09 Aug 2019, 17:12

Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 16:42
Taff Murray wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 15:48
Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 14:59
I don't get this. Surely if Sigurdsson is the better bet for the long term then he is also the better bet for the short term? I mean if a player is the better bet then they are the better bet period, and the long term is really just lots of short term sequences strung together right?
Sadly it doesn't always work like that in my experience.

In this example for instance Siggy has traditionally been a consistent week in/week out scorer of FPL points but doesn't tend to have massive hauls. However he gets a top end total over the course of a season (Usually Top10 Mids). Whereas Richarlison is a more streaky player who tends to score in bursts and then do nothing for weeks. With him it's all about catching those bursts. So far he has tended to burst early in a season, and with Evertons early fixtures, he might be a good one to start off with but by end of September do nothing until Christmas. So you have to manage having him in your team. That is why I asked the question of the OP.

Over the course of a season I would back Siggy to outscore Richarlison but over the course of any smaller sections of the season Richarlison could outscore Siggy in that particular block. It's a Tortoise and Hare situation.
This is wrong.

You could have Richarlison and have one of his poor runs of points, you won't know in advance. If Sigurdsson is getting more points over the season then he is likely 'hauling' more but regardless is getting better scores from week-to-week on average. It is impossible for Richarlison to be the better mathematical pick if he is scoring less points for the same price.

Now if you thought that Richarlison would outscore Sigurdsson over the season, then that would be different, but you don't think that, you believe Sigurdsson will score more points and since that is the case then you should believe that Sigurdsson is also the better pick in any given gameweek or run of gameweeks.

Even if you think Richarlison 'hauls more' or is more 'explosive' it doesn't matter if he ends up getting less points overall than Sigurdsson. Richarlison would end up having to blank more than Sigurdsson for Sigurdsson to beat him, and you want to avoid blanks just as much as you want to get hauls.

So yeah, your logic is flawed.
In this specific case you can start with Richarlison, catch the haul and then make an easy transfer to Siggy and gain both more points and money in total. Easy? No.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Football Hero » 09 Aug 2019, 17:50

blahblah wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 16:47
What about Rich's rabid starts to seasons, and getting far less points in the last third of both seasons?

In theory there are no right or wrong before GW1, but there are after however many games it takes for the mud to clear...... except this one, lol
He was good in the first week last season and then got sent off in week two...

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Football Hero » 09 Aug 2019, 17:53

Klopp-o-matic wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 17:12
Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 16:42
Taff Murray wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 15:48
Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 14:59
I don't get this. Surely if Sigurdsson is the better bet for the long term then he is also the better bet for the short term? I mean if a player is the better bet then they are the better bet period, and the long term is really just lots of short term sequences strung together right?
Sadly it doesn't always work like that in my experience.

In this example for instance Siggy has traditionally been a consistent week in/week out scorer of FPL points but doesn't tend to have massive hauls. However he gets a top end total over the course of a season (Usually Top10 Mids). Whereas Richarlison is a more streaky player who tends to score in bursts and then do nothing for weeks. With him it's all about catching those bursts. So far he has tended to burst early in a season, and with Evertons early fixtures, he might be a good one to start off with but by end of September do nothing until Christmas. So you have to manage having him in your team. That is why I asked the question of the OP.

Over the course of a season I would back Siggy to outscore Richarlison but over the course of any smaller sections of the season Richarlison could outscore Siggy in that particular block. It's a Tortoise and Hare situation.
This is wrong.

You could have Richarlison and have one of his poor runs of points, you won't know in advance. If Sigurdsson is getting more points over the season then he is likely 'hauling' more but regardless is getting better scores from week-to-week on average. It is impossible for Richarlison to be the better mathematical pick if he is scoring less points for the same price.

Now if you thought that Richarlison would outscore Sigurdsson over the season, then that would be different, but you don't think that, you believe Sigurdsson will score more points and since that is the case then you should believe that Sigurdsson is also the better pick in any given gameweek or run of gameweeks.

Even if you think Richarlison 'hauls more' or is more 'explosive' it doesn't matter if he ends up getting less points overall than Sigurdsson. Richarlison would end up having to blank more than Sigurdsson for Sigurdsson to beat him, and you want to avoid blanks just as much as you want to get hauls.

So yeah, your logic is flawed.
In this specific case you can start with Richarlison, catch the haul and then make an easy transfer to Siggy and gain both more points and money in total. Easy? No.
Small sample size of one good start and one fairly good start, with the good start being at a different club. Plus this kind of thinking is the same as 'Kane never scores in August' which he put to bed last season and showed was poor thinking, so there's no reason not to think the same about the notion 'Richarlison always starts well'; he is due a bad start whether this season or the next.

Plus even if he hauls in week one this season, there is no way you are transferring Richarlison out after a haul, you will end up keeping him until he starts blanking too much and by then his points would have ended up dropping below Siggy, in which case by then you chose the wrong option as if you had Siggy you would be up a few points and not needing to do the transfer.
Last edited by Football Hero on 09 Aug 2019, 17:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by blahblah » 09 Aug 2019, 17:54

Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 17:50
blahblah wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 16:47
What about Rich's rabid starts to seasons, and getting far less points in the last third of both seasons?

In theory there are no right or wrong before GW1, but there are after however many games it takes for the mud to clear...... except this one, lol
He was good in the first week last season and then got sent off in week two...
oops :lol:

And then went on a scorefest....

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Taff Murray » 09 Aug 2019, 17:56

Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 16:42
This is wrong.

You could have Richarlison and have one of his poor runs of points, you won't know in advance. If Sigurdsson is getting more points over the season then he is likely 'hauling' more but regardless is getting better scores from week-to-week on average. It is impossible for Richarlison to be the better mathematical pick if he is scoring less points for the same price.

Now if you thought that Richarlison would outscore Sigurdsson over the season, then that would be different, but you don't think that, you believe Sigurdsson will score more points and since that is the case then you should believe that Sigurdsson is also the better pick in any given gameweek or run of gameweeks.

Even if you think Richarlison 'hauls more' or is more 'explosive' it doesn't matter if he ends up getting less points overall than Sigurdsson. Richarlison would end up having to blank more than Sigurdsson for Sigurdsson to beat him, and you want to avoid blanks just as much as you want to get hauls.

So yeah, your logic is flawed.
I'm afraid I disagree with you. I specifically asked the OP whether he was looking for an overall season keeper or somebody for the initial set of fixtures.

Examples:-

Richarlison in the first few GW's scores a brace and single for double digit point hauls in each of those games and then dries up for 10 weeks.
GW1- 2 Goals+App+BP = 15pts GW2-1 Goal 1 Assist+App+CS+Assist+BP = 16pts GW 3-12 - App pts only = 20pts. (2 Big hauls then nothing) Total = 51 pts

Siggy picks up a few assists and consistently returns 3-5 points PGW and continues to do so during Richarlisons 10 dry weeks.
GW1- 1 Assist+App = 5pts Gw2 1 Assist+App = 5Pts GW 3-12 Consistently posts Average 4pts/Game (No big hauls but slow pts acquisition) Total = 50 pts. Extrapolate this over 38 games and Siggy will likely outscore Richarlison but if you'd only had Richarlison for GW's 1&2 he absolutely hammers him. Richarlison is renowned for being fast out of the blocks but tails off as the season progresses.

Eventually Siggy will catch Richarlisons early total and overtake him over the course of the season. It was purely a case of what was the purpose the poll was trying to capture. Season Long or initial GW's.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Football Hero » 09 Aug 2019, 17:58

blahblah wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 17:54
Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 17:50
blahblah wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 16:47
What about Rich's rabid starts to seasons, and getting far less points in the last third of both seasons?

In theory there are no right or wrong before GW1, but there are after however many games it takes for the mud to clear...... except this one, lol
He was good in the first week last season and then got sent off in week two...
oops :lol:

And then went on a scorefest....
For a few weeks after that he scored a couple more but by then Siggy was starting to catch and pass him on points.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by blahblah » 09 Aug 2019, 17:59

Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 17:58
blahblah wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 17:54
Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 17:50
blahblah wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 16:47
What about Rich's rabid starts to seasons, and getting far less points in the last third of both seasons?

In theory there are no right or wrong before GW1, but there are after however many games it takes for the mud to clear...... except this one, lol
He was good in the first week last season and then got sent off in week two...
oops :lol:

And then went on a scorefest....
For a few weeks after that he scored a couple more but by then Siggy was starting to catch and pass him on points.
Their points accumulation would be an interesting graph, but I got out of there weeks ago with Martial and Barkley tempting me.....

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Football Hero » 09 Aug 2019, 18:01

Taff Murray wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 17:56
Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 16:42
This is wrong.

You could have Richarlison and have one of his poor runs of points, you won't know in advance. If Sigurdsson is getting more points over the season then he is likely 'hauling' more but regardless is getting better scores from week-to-week on average. It is impossible for Richarlison to be the better mathematical pick if he is scoring less points for the same price.

Now if you thought that Richarlison would outscore Sigurdsson over the season, then that would be different, but you don't think that, you believe Sigurdsson will score more points and since that is the case then you should believe that Sigurdsson is also the better pick in any given gameweek or run of gameweeks.

Even if you think Richarlison 'hauls more' or is more 'explosive' it doesn't matter if he ends up getting less points overall than Sigurdsson. Richarlison would end up having to blank more than Sigurdsson for Sigurdsson to beat him, and you want to avoid blanks just as much as you want to get hauls.

So yeah, your logic is flawed.
I'm afraid I disagree with you. I specifically asked the OP whether he was looking for an overall season keeper or somebody for the initial set of fixtures.

Examples:-

Richarlison in the first few GW's scores a brace and single for double digit point hauls in each of those games and then dries up for 10 weeks.
GW1- 2 Goals+App+BP = 15pts GW2-1 Goal 1 Assist+App+CS+Assist+BP = 16pts GW 3-12 - App pts only = 20pts. (2 Big hauls then nothing) Total = 51 pts

Siggy picks up a few assists and consistently returns 3-5 points PGW and continues to do so during Richarlisons 10 dry weeks.
GW1- 1 Assist+App = 5pts Gw2 1 Assist+App = 5Pts GW 3-12 Consistently posts Average 4pts/Game (No big hauls but slow pts acquisition) Total = 50 pts. Extrapolate this over 38 games and Siggy will likely outscore Richarlison but if you'd only had Richarlison for GW's 1&2 he absolutely hammers him. Richarlison is renowned for being fast out of the blocks but tails off as the season progresses.

Eventually Siggy will catch Richarlisons early total and overtake him over the course of the season. It was purely a case of what was the purpose the poll was trying to capture. Season Long or initial GW's.
Wow, you really don't understand how this game works at all. Siggy had plenty of hauls last season, so why can't he haul in these early fixtures instead of just scoring 3 - 5 a week when Richarlison is presumably still scoring 3 points even when he blanks?

You won't know when the 'short term' has ended with Richarlison either, you will end up keeping him if he starts well.

Siggy is the better pick, (at least based off of last season's data), that is the end of this debate, and by the looks of the poll plenty more agree with me than you.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Klopp-o-matic » 09 Aug 2019, 18:03

Im just saying that some people might try to do that, Im not saying I will or that it is the right thing to do.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Taff Murray » 09 Aug 2019, 18:05

Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:01
Wow, you really don't understand how this game works at all.
:shock:

Yeh you're probably right. I haven't got a clue. Never done it before so call it a rookie mistake. :wink: :lol:

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Football Hero » 09 Aug 2019, 18:08

Taff Murray wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:05
Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:01
Wow, you really don't understand how this game works at all.
:shock:

Yeh you're probably right. I haven't got a clue. Never done it before so call it a rookie mistake. :wink: :lol:
You are definitely one of those people that believes in a player being 'explosive' etc. and I am glad that the likes of you exist, because it makes things easier for me to secure a high ranking.

Please do go with Richarlison. :D

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Taff Murray » 09 Aug 2019, 18:14

Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:08

You are definitely one of those people that believes in a player being 'explosive' etc. and I am glad that the likes of you exist, because it makes things easier for me to secure a high ranking.

Please do go with Richarlison. :D
Glad to be of assistance. :lol: If it's any consolation I am going with neither.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Football Hero » 09 Aug 2019, 18:18

Taff Murray wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:14
Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:08

You are definitely one of those people that believes in a player being 'explosive' etc. and I am glad that the likes of you exist, because it makes things easier for me to secure a high ranking.

Please do go with Richarlison. :D
Glad to be of assistance. :lol: If it's any consolation I am going with neither.
Nice troll then. Well done.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Ironfist » 09 Aug 2019, 19:16

Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:18
Taff Murray wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:14
Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:08

You are definitely one of those people that believes in a player being 'explosive' etc. and I am glad that the likes of you exist, because it makes things easier for me to secure a high ranking.

Please do go with Richarlison. :D
Glad to be of assistance. :lol: If it's any consolation I am going with neither.
Nice troll then. Well done.
Where is your FPL button btw...?
I'd be keen to learn and improve.

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by LamebrainEddy » 09 Aug 2019, 22:17

Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:08

You are definitely one of those people that believes in a player being 'explosive' etc. and I am glad that the likes of you exist, because it makes things easier for me to secure a high ranking.

Please do go with Richarlison. :D
Since your opinions/strategy are so great I know an easier way of attaining a higher ranking - stop posting here

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Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Football Hero » 09 Aug 2019, 23:45

LamebrainEddy wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 22:17
Football Hero wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 18:08

You are definitely one of those people that believes in a player being 'explosive' etc. and I am glad that the likes of you exist, because it makes things easier for me to secure a high ranking.

Please do go with Richarlison. :D
Since your opinions/strategy are so great I know an easier way of attaining a higher ranking - stop posting here
You are right, it is -EV to post here but at the same time it's good to give a few things back when you can also learn some things from intelligent posters that are applying sound strategies.

Mike1989
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Joined: 17 Aug 2016, 19:33

Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Mike1989 » 10 Aug 2019, 00:11

I put Siggy and Richarlison in the same bracket as Zaha and Milivojevic.

Siggy and Mili are solid dependable players that will score consistently as the season goes on, and both are on set pieces and/or penalties.

Richarlison and Zaha are upside players and will have runs when they score in bunches, but they do blow hot and cold and are harder to rely on.

For me, I'd take Siggy over Richarlison and Mili over Zaha as a safer bet to start in your team over the course of the season. I'd also Siggy (and perhaps Mili) to out score their rival at the same price point, but either pick has its merits.

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Klopp-o-matic
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Posts: 277
Joined: 23 Jul 2018, 08:56

Re: Quick poll: Sigurdsson or Richarlison?

Post by Klopp-o-matic » 10 Aug 2019, 00:37

Mike1989 wrote:
10 Aug 2019, 00:11
I put Siggy and Richarlison in the same bracket as Zaha and Milivojevic.

Siggy and Mili are solid dependable players that will score consistently as the season goes on, and both are on set pieces and/or penalties.

Richarlison and Zaha are upside players and will have runs when they score in bunches, but they do blow hot and cold and are harder to rely on.

For me, I'd take Siggy over Richarlison and Mili over Zaha as a safer bet to start in your team over the course of the season. I'd also Siggy (and perhaps Mili) to out score their rival at the same price point, but either pick has its merits.
A good comparison. That is why I ended up having Richarlison and not the safe pick... living on tve edge!

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