No more Classic (and no more ISO)
-
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 7607
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
- Location: In hiding
- FPL:
No more Classic (and no more ISO)
Just had an email to say OFL will only be running their auction game from next season. Very sad news
- sts
- Kevin and Perry
- Posts: 22
- Joined: 28 May 2009, 11:44
- FS Record: VM2009-2nd, FFF2009 - 2nd, Espnstar2010 - 2nd, Pundit2011 - Winner, ArabianBusiness2011 - Winner, Espnstar Cup 2011 - Winner, Espnstar 2 Half - Winner, FFF2011 - Winner (tie), Espnstar 2012 Winner, Fanxt 2012 - Winner. Classic 2014/15 - 5th
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
its very bad news. 10 years of my life ((((((((((((((((
it was last world wide game
((
it was last world wide game
((
- Rick
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 3760
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
- Location: Ricks Cafe.
- FPL:
- Contact:
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
Sad news indeed when the company which first introduced fantasy football to this country is no longer interested in running a pay to play competition with decent prizes.
I think that leaves us with just 3 decent comps now, down from over 20 when FF was in it's heyday.
I think that leaves us with just 3 decent comps now, down from over 20 when FF was in it's heyday.
- forestfan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 36690
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
- Location: Between Westeros and Nova Scotia
- FS Record: FISODAS Champion Season 34!
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
The FPL monster has just devoured all its competition over the past decade... free entry and millions of players tells its own story of how it changed the market. Can see the time coming when it's the only "mainstream" game left, with only small niche market games as alternatives.Rick wrote:Sad news indeed when the company which first introduced fantasy football to this country is no longer interested in running a pay to play competition with decent prizes.
I think that leaves us with just 3 decent comps now, down from over 20 when FF was in it's heyday.
If people want to pay they'll go for football betting instead, in the most part.
- Maldini
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 6564
- Joined: 07 Mar 2014, 18:32
- FPL:
No more Classic (and no more ISO)
And perversely, FPL is far and away the most abysmally dull game there is.
- murf
- FISO Viscount
- Posts: 109608
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
- Location: here
- FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
- FPL:
- Contact:
Re: RE: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
Never played OFL but have to agree about FPL. Far too roboticMaldini wrote:And perversely, FPL is far and away the most abysmally dull game there is.
Sorry for you devotees, I know how I felt when my favourite (TFFO) went and I only really played that for 2 years.
- forestfan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 36690
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
- Location: Between Westeros and Nova Scotia
- FS Record: FISODAS Champion Season 34!
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
Haven't played the main OFL game for a long time, though done a few over the years based on their scoring system which I really like due to its simplicity. It's the first format I knew (via the old Times game) and for me, despite years of TFF, my FF first language is still "3 for a goal, 2 for an assist, 3 for a clean sheet".
I think they've been in gradual decline since they split with the Times though, which was what, probably pushing 15 years ago? That was their mass market game, the replacement Times game was crap and it's some years since that paper even ran one I think, so it didn't really work out for either party to go their separate ways.
I think they've been in gradual decline since they split with the Times though, which was what, probably pushing 15 years ago? That was their mass market game, the replacement Times game was crap and it's some years since that paper even ran one I think, so it didn't really work out for either party to go their separate ways.
- Rick
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 3760
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
- Location: Ricks Cafe.
- FPL:
- Contact:
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
OFL originally ran the Telegraph game, when I won a sub prize back in 97/98 they ran it. I remember you had to do transfers by post, enclosing one stamp per transfer. Only 12 per season too. I think they changed soon after that and OFL moved on to the Times.
- Malrom
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 16519
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:43
- Location: Feet in Switzerland, Football heart in Leeds
- FPL:
- Contact:
Re: RE: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
TFFO was simply the best ever!murf wrote:Never played OFL but have to agree about FPL. Far too roboticMaldini wrote:And perversely, FPL is far and away the most abysmally dull game there is.
Sorry for you devotees, I know how I felt when my favourite (TFFO) went and I only really played that for 2 years.
- Malrom
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 16519
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:43
- Location: Feet in Switzerland, Football heart in Leeds
- FPL:
- Contact:
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
I remember that one tooRick wrote:OFL originally ran the Telegraph game, when I won a sub prize back in 97/98 they ran it. I remember you had to do transfers by post, enclosing one stamp per transfer. Only 12 per season too. I think they changed soon after that and OFL moved on to the Times.
I sent my transfers to a friend (email) in Enlgand and he did for me. You could also ring them, when I remember that correctly.
Interesting times ....... not interested Times
- Mr Green
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 1479
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
- Location: Squawka HQ
- Contact:
A Brief History of Time
"No longer interested" is a bit harsh - the reasons were explained on the email but ultimately no longer makes financial sense to run.Rick wrote:Sad news indeed when the company which first introduced fantasy football to this country is no longer interested in running a pay to play competition with decent prizes.
Fantasy League did indeed bring fantasy football to the UK, starting with what is now known as the Auction game in 1991/2 (although there were a select number of "trial leagues" the previous season).
The first "Classic" format game was in '90 Minutes' magazine a year or so later and first published in the Daily Telegraph during the 1993/94 season (Boxing Day 1993, to be exact) - when more than a million first class stamps were received as payment! Needless to say, it was only a week or two before other newspapers jumped on the bandwagon...
As suggested, the Telegraph then opted to run the game themselves from 1998/9, with Fantasy League then joining forces with The Times, and subsequently producing games for other newspaper and media establishments/publishers.
So, yes, the end of an era to some extent, but for those for whom cash prizes aren't the be all and end all (which admittedly does rule out a sizeable proportion on the FISO forum), then the Auction game comes highly recommended.
Indeed, I've never looked back since converting from the "Solo" (now Classic) format in 1992/93 to my first taste of "Pro" (Auction) in the form of the 'Big and Bouncy Midlands League' - for which we were 8-10 "trialists" put together by Fantasy League and arranged an auction during the summer of 1993 at Warwick University. A strikeforce of Cole, Ferdinand and Shearer ensured a triumphant debut season...
- quizking
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 2734
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
- Location: quizking towers, primrose hill; and running the shop at https://www.quizking.net/
- Contact:
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
I'm wondering that if there was a tie-in with another media publisher, interested company or bookmaker (as you've had in the past - BBC, channel 4, AOL, CSSC, elephant, and irish times to name a few from memory) that there might still be an OFL game with prizes (put up by a sponsor)?
I don't see the point of a competition without cash prizes though - an analogy would be playing poker for matchsticks.
I don't see the point of a competition without cash prizes though - an analogy would be playing poker for matchsticks.
- forestfan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 36690
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
- Location: Between Westeros and Nova Scotia
- FS Record: FISODAS Champion Season 34!
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
Well, with an auction game you each pay into your own private prize pool, and the winner (or however many places you decide) takes the pot...quizking wrote:I don't see the point of a competition without cash prizes though - an analogy would be playing poker for matchsticks.
-
- Kevin and Perry
- Posts: 12
- Joined: 28 Jun 2015, 19:49
Re: A Brief History of Time
Mr Green, you seem to be particularly well informed. I note that you list your location as Squawka HQ. Do you happen to work for Squawka or Fantasy League as both now operate from the same premises?Mr Green wrote:"No longer interested" is a bit harsh - the reasons were explained on the email but ultimately no longer makes financial sense to run.Rick wrote:Sad news indeed when the company which first introduced fantasy football to this country is no longer interested in running a pay to play competition with decent prizes.
Fantasy League did indeed bring fantasy football to the UK, starting with what is now known as the Auction game in 1991/2 (although there were a select number of "trial leagues" the previous season).
The first "Classic" format game was in '90 Minutes' magazine a year or so later and first published in the Daily Telegraph during the 1993/94 season (Boxing Day 1993, to be exact) - when more than a million first class stamps were received as payment! Needless to say, it was only a week or two before other newspapers jumped on the bandwagon...
As suggested, the Telegraph then opted to run the game themselves from 1998/9, with Fantasy League then joining forces with The Times, and subsequently producing games for other newspaper and media establishments/publishers.
So, yes, the end of an era to some extent, but for those for whom cash prizes aren't the be all and end all (which admittedly does rule out a sizeable proportion on the FISO forum), then the Auction game comes highly recommended.
Indeed, I've never looked back since converting from the "Solo" (now Classic) format in 1992/93 to my first taste of "Pro" (Auction) in the form of the 'Big and Bouncy Midlands League' - for which we were 8-10 "trialists" put together by Fantasy League and arranged an auction during the summer of 1993 at Warwick University. A strikeforce of Cole, Ferdinand and Shearer ensured a triumphant debut season...
My understanding is that the partnership between Fantasy League and Squawka, announced in July 2016, was supposed to result in the game being relaunched for the 2017/18 season. There was certainly evidence of improvements to the Classic website during this season. The first time that had happened in many seasons.
I know the number of teams has decreased in recent seasons. There’s probably less than 7,000 this season and I remember it being well over 30,000. I suppose that’s hardly surprising given the increased competition, website issues and a lack of marketing.
Squawka claim to have over 6m plus unique users a day, all football fans. As a fast growing, but loss making business, they were looking to monetise that user base. The partnership with Fantasy League appeared to be the perfect opportunity for both parties. Fantasy League had the experience of running the game and Squawka could provide the user base and marketing expertise.
It appears that the partnership has ended before Squawka has even marketed the game to its users.
As an insider, I wondered if you could provide any insight into what really happened?
- Mr Green
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 1479
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
- Location: Squawka HQ
- Contact:
A Brief History of Time (cont.)
Yes, I (wrongly) assumed that all FISOers knew that I am still primarily concerned with Fantasy League products within my role at Squawka.AJB1971 wrote: Mr Green, you seem to be particularly well informed. I note that you list your location as Squawka HQ. Do you happen to work for Squawka or Fantasy League as both now operate from the same premises?
My understanding is that the partnership between Fantasy League and Squawka, announced in July 2016, was supposed to result in the game being relaunched for the 2017/18 season. There was certainly evidence of improvements to the Classic website during this season. The first time that had happened in many seasons.
I know the number of teams has decreased in recent seasons. There’s probably less than 7,000 this season and I remember it being well over 30,000. I suppose that’s hardly surprising given the increased competition, website issues and a lack of marketing.
Squawka claim to have over 6m plus unique users a day, all football fans. As a fast growing, but loss making business, they were looking to monetise that user base. The partnership with Fantasy League appeared to be the perfect opportunity for both parties. Fantasy League had the experience of running the game and Squawka could provide the user base and marketing expertise.
It appears that the partnership has ended before Squawka has even marketed the game to its users.
As an insider, I wondered if you could provide any insight into what really happened?
Website performance has certainly improved this season and pleased it has been noticed - although there have been a few repercussions following a recent move/upgrade of servers, which was disappointing but has been acted upon.
It was actually a touch and go decision as to whether Fantasy League/Squawka would run Classic for 16/17, but was decided to go with it. Classic entries are slightly down on last season (as you suggest, has been a downward trend for several seasons), but hardly surprising considering that the product was launched with little notice around mid-July and there was minimal marketing, at least externally.
The partnership of Fantasy League and Squawka is very much still in place. However, the factors explained on Andrew's email means that reaching the breakeven point for Classic is no longer guaranteed for 17/18 (either with or without prizes) and neither party is in a position to run the game as a "loss leader". Hence the decision to discontinue to product to re-focus on the Auction game.
Sunday, 21 May will be a sad day for Fantasy League Classic - like I said, I had my own first taste of fantasy football playing the "Solo" format back in 1992. That being said, it was my gateway to the big league (Auction) from which I haven't looked back...
- Vid
- Head Moderator
- Posts: 21755
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:33
- FS Record: winning is a distant memory
- FPL:
Re: A Brief History of Time (cont.)
Newbies wandering in here all the time, most won't even know that you used to be Mr Pink!Mr Green wrote: Yes, I (wrongly) assumed that all FISOers knew that I am still primarily concerned with Fantasy League products within my role at Squawka.
OFL started going downhill when you brought in the max 5 transfers and stopped my £500/ month income supplement
I'll add at the time it allowed me to eat decent food for most of the season, going through a rough patch.
-
- Kevin and Perry
- Posts: 12
- Joined: 28 Jun 2015, 19:49
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
Thanks for the response.
I’m not a regular on these forums and wasn’t aware of your position. I hadn’t looked at your post history before I posted.
I am surprised at the timing of the decision. I was aware of Fantasy League’s financial issues, but hoped that the partnership with Squawka would secure the game, at least until the end of next season.
It seemed inevitable that without any marketing the number of teams would continue to decrease this season. The website performance was terrible last season and it had also been bad the previous season. Even core Fantasy League players became disillusioned and left.
I can understand your decision not to promote the game this season. The deal was done too late and I’m sure you wanted to be certain that the website could handle the increased traffic and deliver a good user experience, but ending the game before the relaunch seems like a missed opportunity.
The Auction game may be more appealing to you because of the lower cost base, but I think it will be a harder sell for your users. It’s much more expensive, aimed at groups, and the rules are more complicated. I think it’s more likely to appeal to those who’ve already played the Classic game.
As I said previously, there are currently around 7,000 teams playing Classic this season, which probably equates to just 2,000-3,000 people because most players enter several teams. In October 2015 Squawka announced that, ‘over 6m fans worldwide view our content every day.’ This is far greater than the circulation of any newspapers currently running games. You wouldn’t have to convert many of those users to make the game viable again.
I hope it’s a success, but I won’t be moving to the Auction game. It doesn’t really appeal to me. I put up with the website issues because I liked the Classic game, but I’ll be looking for an alternative.
I’m not a regular on these forums and wasn’t aware of your position. I hadn’t looked at your post history before I posted.
I am surprised at the timing of the decision. I was aware of Fantasy League’s financial issues, but hoped that the partnership with Squawka would secure the game, at least until the end of next season.
It seemed inevitable that without any marketing the number of teams would continue to decrease this season. The website performance was terrible last season and it had also been bad the previous season. Even core Fantasy League players became disillusioned and left.
I can understand your decision not to promote the game this season. The deal was done too late and I’m sure you wanted to be certain that the website could handle the increased traffic and deliver a good user experience, but ending the game before the relaunch seems like a missed opportunity.
The Auction game may be more appealing to you because of the lower cost base, but I think it will be a harder sell for your users. It’s much more expensive, aimed at groups, and the rules are more complicated. I think it’s more likely to appeal to those who’ve already played the Classic game.
As I said previously, there are currently around 7,000 teams playing Classic this season, which probably equates to just 2,000-3,000 people because most players enter several teams. In October 2015 Squawka announced that, ‘over 6m fans worldwide view our content every day.’ This is far greater than the circulation of any newspapers currently running games. You wouldn’t have to convert many of those users to make the game viable again.
I hope it’s a success, but I won’t be moving to the Auction game. It doesn’t really appeal to me. I put up with the website issues because I liked the Classic game, but I’ll be looking for an alternative.
-
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 7607
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
- Location: In hiding
- FPL:
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
The auction game is great, if you can find some local rules to keep it interesting for struggling managers.
But it's way too expensive.
But it's way too expensive.
- murf
- FISO Viscount
- Posts: 109608
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
- Location: here
- FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
- FPL:
- Contact:
Re: RE: Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
"The kids of today" think everything in the internet should be free. That has spread to FF participation due to FPL and the knock on reduced cost of TFF etc. I remember TFF being £5 a team and still thinking it was good value for 9 months of pleasure. It was!bspittles wrote:The auction game is great, if you can find some local rules to keep it interesting for struggling managers.
But it's way too expensive.
Nowadays only those who view FF as a business or form of gamble see that and will pay to play. These are all, generally, established players and there will be no new blood.
I know TFF, Draft Kings etc have launched higher priced short term games but they haven't hit mainstream poularity yet (I'm no expert but don't they generally promise short term return?).
The demise of any game without SERIOUS media backing (PL website counting as media) is almost guaranteed I'm afraid.
Am I wrong Mr Pink?
- forestfan
- FISO Jedi Knight
- Posts: 36690
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
- Location: Between Westeros and Nova Scotia
- FS Record: FISODAS Champion Season 34!
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
It's interesting how TFF has stayed pretty constant at about 250,000 entries for all the time I've been playing it (around 15 years) but they must make a fraction of the income in terms of entry fees now, with all the free/multiple team deals!
-
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 7607
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
- Location: In hiding
- FPL:
Re: RE: Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
The Auction game is £27 - £39 per team, with no prize money. The software is already written (okay, may need tweaking during each close season), so surely it could be that price per league instead? That would enable leagues to create their own prize funds.murf wrote:"The kids of today" think everything in the internet should be free. That has spread to FF participation due to FPL and the knock on reduced cost of TFF etc. I remember TFF being £5 a team and still thinking it was good value for 9 months of pleasure. It was!bspittles wrote:The auction game is great, if you can find some local rules to keep it interesting for struggling managers.
But it's way too expensive.
- Mr Green
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 1479
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
- Location: Squawka HQ
- Contact:
The Old and the New
Yes, that's a fair summary. Indeed, a few years ago, the real-life main character of the short film "Silly Little Games" (based on the creation of rotisserie baseball) once congratulated Andrew, the Fantasy League founder, on being the only person he was aware of that had actually made any money from running fantasy sports games!murf wrote: "The kids of today" think everything in the internet should be free. That has spread to FF participation due to FPL and the knock on reduced cost of TFF etc. I remember TFF being £5 a team and still thinking it was good value for 9 months of pleasure. It was!
Nowadays only those who view FF as a business or form of gamble see that and will pay to play. These are all, generally, established players and there will be no new blood.
I know TFF, Draft Kings etc have launched higher priced short term games but they haven't hit mainstream poularity yet (I'm no expert but don't they generally promise short term return?).
The demise of any game without SERIOUS media backing (PL website counting as media) is almost guaranteed I'm afraid.
Am I wrong Mr Pink?
For those who haven't seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG4EkSvuLm4
18-25 year-olds of today think nothing of blowing £50 on a night out, yet wouldn't part with a tenner for a season-long fantasy game over the likes of FPL unless it came personally recommended. Mind you, even rival free-to-play games are struggling with the FPL bandwagon.
Hence, the long-standing Fantasy League customers and the youth of today are completely different animals (as proven by the Squawka audience which are very much the latter) and therein lies the ongoing challenge...
- SamD
- FISO Knight
- Posts: 13457
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
- Location: Goodbye, Pine Cottage. Hello, Casterbridge.
OFL future
Glad to see your contributions, Mr Green, both now and in past seasons.
Would welcome news on the Golf game (which some of us regard as FL's best offering). Is there any chance of a return after last year's sabbatical? Here's hoping...
Would welcome news on the Golf game (which some of us regard as FL's best offering). Is there any chance of a return after last year's sabbatical? Here's hoping...
-
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 1417
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
Very Sad to see this go. Ofl was always my favourite format in its various guises and usually came with the realistic hope of a prize or two.
- Mr Green
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 1479
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
- Location: Squawka HQ
- Contact:
OFL Future (cont.)
Unfortunately not - with Squawka solely concerned with digitial content for football, a golf game isn't in keeping with the brand.SamD wrote:Glad to see your contributions, Mr Green, both now and in past seasons.
Would welcome news on the Golf game (which some of us regard as FL's best offering). Is there any chance of a return after last year's sabbatical? Here's hoping...
Alas, I miss it, too...although not so much the late night updates!
- quizking
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 2734
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
- Location: quizking towers, primrose hill; and running the shop at https://www.quizking.net/
- Contact:
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
I've mentioned this to both Matt and Guy at fantasyleague/squawka over the last few weeks - if they could combine the design and graphic interface of the squawka matchboss game (which I think is the best looking game currently on the market) with a traditional fantasy football format, they would be on to a winner. Unfortunately (imho) the matchboss game, although it looks great, doesn't currently have many elements of skill, planning, or strategy, and no budgetary considerations whatever - it's just guessing from a list of players.
-
- Dumbledore
- Posts: 7607
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
- Location: In hiding
- FPL:
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
I'm surprised to hear you say that. Matchboss is a good fun game, but the iPad interface is dreadfulquizking wrote:I've mentioned this to both Matt and Guy at fantasyleague/squawka over the last few weeks - if they could combine the design and graphic interface of the squawka matchboss game (which I think is the best looking game currently on the market) with a traditional fantasy football format, they would be on to a winner. Unfortunately (imho) the matchboss game, although it looks great, doesn't currently have many elements of skill, planning, or strategy, and no budgetary considerations whatever - it's just guessing from a list of players.
- quizking
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 2734
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
- Location: quizking towers, primrose hill; and running the shop at https://www.quizking.net/
- Contact:
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
Ah, well it looks good on a regular laptop - and unlike many other games, doesn't feature popups or ads, or cause screen crashes (at least not on firefox).
- Rick
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 3760
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32
- Location: Ricks Cafe.
- FPL:
- Contact:
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
I'm surprised too, I really enjoy it, best new comp of the season. If there is no skill in Matchboss then there is no skill in any fantasy comp. No much but a little, probably 90% luck 10% skill, just like any weekly comp.bspittles wrote:I'm surprised to hear you say that. Matchboss is a good fun game, but the iPad interface is dreadfulquizking wrote:I've mentioned this to both Matt and Guy at fantasyleague/squawka over the last few weeks - if they could combine the design and graphic interface of the squawka matchboss game (which I think is the best looking game currently on the market) with a traditional fantasy football format, they would be on to a winner. Unfortunately (imho) the matchboss game, although it looks great, doesn't currently have many elements of skill, planning, or strategy, and no budgetary considerations whatever - it's just guessing from a list of players.
Last edited by Rick on 05 May 2017, 18:35, edited 1 time in total.
- Britinus
- Grumpy Old Man
- Posts: 2175
- Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
- Location: Florida
- FPL:
Re: No more Classic (and no more ISO)
Guess all my mouse mats and medals will appreciate now then, earliest being 2002/3.
shame it's not going to run anymore though, was my favourite .
shame it's not going to run anymore though, was my favourite .
View Latest: 1 Day View Your posts