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Russia 2018 Chat - Best moment of Round 1?

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Who's caused the biggest rumble in Russia so far?

Poll runs till 19 Jun 2018, 21:55

Russia net five against Saudi
0
No votes
Ronaldo to the rescue versus Spain
2
40%
Iceland freeze Messi
0
No votes
Lozano fires Mexico to win over holders Germany
2
40%
Kane roars twice against Tunisia
1
20%
 
Total votes: 5

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Tacalabala
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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - The night before poll: Who will win the World Cup?

Postby Tacalabala » 14 Jun 2018, 19:58

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - The night before poll: Who will win the World Cup?

Postby blahblah » 14 Jun 2018, 20:12

forestfan wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 18:54

Anyway, why no second match on the opening day? Particularly with the first one being in the afternoon. :?
Not in Russia it wasn't :wink:

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - The night before poll: Who will win the World Cup?

Postby Finisher1 » 14 Jun 2018, 20:44

liquidfootball2 wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 19:47
Finisher1 wrote:
liquidfootball2 wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 18:18
With 16 teams of a similar or worse standard to Saudi, (or should that rather be substandard...), which means at least 24 games featuring one or more of them.
So you think Italy, Netherlands, Chile and USA are worse than Saudi?
The allocations now are uneven when taking into account the strength of the particular confederations, but next tournament they will be skewed greatly too

...

Italy Holland and Chile blew it but it's far harder to qualify in Europe and South America as you can see from these figures.
Of course, but I was just amused by your joke "there will be 16 teams worse than Saudi", because the likes of Italy, Netherlands, Chile, Ghana, Ivory Coast and USA are first teams to be added when the World Cup is expanded to 48 teams.

What the expansion really does is just to ensure that none of the big teams fails to qualify. Teams like Italy, Netherlands, Chile, Ghana, Ivory Coast and USA are first teams to be added.

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby Tacalabala » 14 Jun 2018, 21:04

The Italians had the wrong manager, the Dutch have a crap crop of players, the African three have lost a lot of the golden generations, the US fed are mismanaged at a corporate level and Bruce Arena picked past players.

None of them would have added anything to the tournament. Wales is the big miss for me, just the misfortune to have Bale out injured during too many qualifying games.

Definitely fancy Portugal tomorrow night, Ronaldo really wants this.

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby Finisher1 » 14 Jun 2018, 21:10

Tacalabala wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 21:04
The Italians had the wrong manager, the Dutch have a crap crop of players, the African three have lost a lot of the golden generations, the US fed are mismanaged at a corporate level and Bruce Arena picked past players.

None of them would have added anything to the tournament.
Maybe you are right. Maybe World Cup should include just two teams, Real Madrid and Barcelona. That would be a high-level tournament! :roll:

To be honest, the fact that you think Chile is in Africa tells pretty much everything :lol:

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby forestfan » 14 Jun 2018, 21:25

Tacalabala wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 21:04
The Italians had the wrong manager, the Dutch have a crap crop of players, the African three have lost a lot of the golden generations, the US fed are mismanaged at a corporate level and Bruce Arena picked past players.

None of them would have added anything to the tournament. Wales is the big miss for me, just the misfortune to have Bale out injured during too many qualifying games.
None of them would have shipped five against the unheralded hosts either. They can’t complain as they knew the rules, but there’s teams back home who are much better than some who are in Russia, and that isn’t right.

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Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby Maldini » 14 Jun 2018, 21:27

Finisher1 wrote:
Tacalabala wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 21:04
The Italians had the wrong manager, the Dutch have a crap crop of players, the African three have lost a lot of the golden generations, the US fed are mismanaged at a corporate level and Bruce Arena picked past players.

None of them would have added anything to the tournament.
Maybe you are right. Maybe World Cup should include just two teams, Real Madrid and Barcelona. That would be a high-level tournament!

To be honest, the fact that you think Chile is in Africa tells pretty much everything
Cameroon, Ivory Coast and Ghana?


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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby Tacalabala » 14 Jun 2018, 22:52

Maldini wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 21:27
Finisher1 wrote:
Tacalabala wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 21:04
The Italians had the wrong manager, the Dutch have a crap crop of players, the African three have lost a lot of the golden generations, the US fed are mismanaged at a corporate level and Bruce Arena picked past players.

None of them would have added anything to the tournament.
Maybe you are right. Maybe World Cup should include just two teams, Real Madrid and Barcelona. That would be a high-level tournament!

To be honest, the fact that you think Chile is in Africa tells pretty much everything
Cameroon, Ivory Coast and Ghana?

Thank you, the same criticism is applicable to Chile as it happens.

Clearly Saudi benefit from the shallowness of Asian quality and I should imagine playing away in Riyadh would faze teams in that confederation.

The Italians could have done ok, but it was never going to happen under Ventura, and the FA wouldn't have sacked him if they'd squeezed through against Sweden. The Dutch really do have an average team at the moment, but for the odd star like VVD and Wijnaldum.

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby liquidfootball2 » 14 Jun 2018, 23:11

When it's proposed the increase to 48 will mean this it's gone too far :-

Europe has 28 teams in the top 48 ranking places and gets an allocation of less than 60% of this - 16

South America does slightly better and has 8 in the top 48 and gets 75% of this with 6

Africa has 7 and gets over 125% with 9

North America has 3 and gets 200% of this with 6

Asia has 2 and gets 400% of this with 8

Oceania has none in the top 48 but gets a place

And in addition two extra places from the World bar Europe

The chance to qualify should be there for all with guaranteed places but the balance and difficulty in qualifying is skewed so far that its very easy for very poor teams to qualify in one part of the world and just as easy for immeasurably better teams to fail in another.

The balance has gone too far towards global representation and too far against any semblance of fairness on ability.

The result is inevitably a very unbalanced finals with teams completely out of their depth or comfort zone

Some teams are complete makeweights

Tokenism so it can be called The World Cup which is allied to cementing the FIFA hierarchy in their positions of authority - empire building amongst grateful delegates from these countries.

Even the rankings themselves are badly flawed as weaker sides meet similarly weak sides from the same continent and the winner gets ranking points whereas stronger sides from Europe or South America play in their own stronger groups.

The rankings don't tell the true picture and tend to work against Europe and South America and for weaker sides in other continents.

There are obviously exceptions but this is undoubtedly a general trend which does mean rankings can be very inaccurate with weaker sides in artificially high positions.
Last edited by liquidfootball2 on 14 Jun 2018, 23:24, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby Finisher1 » 14 Jun 2018, 23:12

Tacalabala wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 22:52
Thank you, the same criticism is applicable to Chile as it happens.
You do know Chile won Copa America in 2015 and 2016, right?

Tacalabala wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 22:52
The Italians could have done ok, but it was never going to happen under Ventura, and the FA wouldn't have sacked him if they'd squeezed through against Sweden. The Dutch really do have an average team at the moment, but for the odd star like VVD and Wijnaldum.
Italy and Netherlands may not be Real Madrid and Barcelona, but they are totally relevant teams when we are talking about decent teams for World Cup.

Saying that Italy, Netherlands or Chile wouldn't add anything to World Cup is quite ignorant, to be honest.

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Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby Maldini » 14 Jun 2018, 23:13

There’s definitely a level of ignorance in this thread but none of it is coming from Tac.

Not sure if it’s a second language thing but you’re not coming across very well Finisher.

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby Finisher1 » 14 Jun 2018, 23:31

Maldini wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 23:13
There’s definitely a level of ignorance in this thread but none of it is coming from Tac.
So he is not showing any ignorance by saying Copa America champions from 2015 and 2016 wouldn't add anything to World Cup?

Maldini wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 23:13
Not sure if it’s a second language thing but you’re not coming across very well Finisher.
Ahh, the second language card. It's always played when nothing else is left :)

I have noticed that when Englishmen run out of arguments, then some of them are very eager to try dismissing the other person by pointing out he isn't a native English speaker. It's funny really and I don't know what's their logic behind that, but I have noticed it happens occasionally.

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby Finisher1 » 15 Jun 2018, 00:05

liquidfootball2 wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 23:11
Even the rankings themselves are badly flawed as weaker sides meet similarly weak sides from the same continent and the winner gets ranking points whereas stronger sides from Europe or South America play in their own stronger groups.

The rankings don't tell the true picture and tend to work against Europe and South America and for weaker sides in other continents.

There are obviously exceptions but this is undoubtedly a general trend which does mean rankings can be very inaccurate with weaker sides in artificially high positions.
I do think FIFA ranking is flawed in certain ways, but I have to ask do you even know how it is calculated?

It takes into account the strength of the opposing team and the strength of the opposing team's confederation.

Poor teams in Asia get fewer points from one qualification match than strong teams in Europe.

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Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby Maldini » 15 Jun 2018, 00:11

I wasn’t trying to devalue your argument, I was hoping the arrogance and rudeness in your posts was because English isn’t your first language.

Glad we’ve cleared that up.

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby Patrician » 15 Jun 2018, 07:05

We Enlglish like to cover up our rudeness with opaque language :wink:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 30046.html

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby Tacalabala » 15 Jun 2018, 08:02

I don't want to keep going with this as it's going to get boring for everyone else, and there are cracking games today. Really hoping Salah does an Arnie and announces "I'm back!" with a brace.

Golovin looks potentially excellent, need to see how he does against better opposition.
Finisher1 wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 23:31
Maldini wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 23:13
There’s definitely a level of ignorance in this thread but none of it is coming from Tac.
So he is not showing any ignorance by saying Copa America champions from 2015 and 2016 wouldn't add anything to World Cup?
Chile did get done with lost points in qualifying, but they are getting old now, 2016 was a long time ago in football terms, it was only four years ago the Dutch were in the last four in Brazil. We have the 32 we do because they met the criteria in their respective zones.

Hopefully the baseline level of quality will have risen globally by 2026, because the worst ranked team from Europe shouldn't be beating one of Asia's (bigger continent) best teams on paper. Totally agree there should be intercontinental playofs for all the extra 16 spots, would be an incredible home-away knockout tournament.

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby forestfan » 15 Jun 2018, 08:13

Nobody’s saying Chile deserve to be there above any of the South American teams who did qualify, or Italy/Holland with respect to the European qualifiers etc... just that the geographical balance has swung too far away from one that reflects the distribution of the strongest teams.

Anyway, next time we’ll have Qatar taking part, who finished bottom of their group in the final stage of Asian qualifying. I suspect there will be more than a few Brazilian-sounding names in their line-up come 2022 :wink:

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby liquidfootball2 » 15 Jun 2018, 09:23

Finisher1 wrote:
liquidfootball2 wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 23:11
Even the rankings themselves are badly flawed as weaker sides meet similarly weak sides from the same continent and the winner gets ranking points whereas stronger sides from Europe or South America play in their own stronger groups.

The rankings don't tell the true picture and tend to work against Europe and South America and for weaker sides in other continents.

There are obviously exceptions but this is undoubtedly a general trend which does mean rankings can be very inaccurate with weaker sides in artificially high positions.
I do think FIFA ranking is flawed in certain ways, but I have to ask do you even know how it is calculated?

It takes into account the strength of the opposing team and the strength of the opposing team's confederation.

Poor teams in Asia get fewer points from one qualification match than strong teams in Europe.
Yes of course I do, and while less points for beating weaker teams does try to mitigate the effect of winning all your games against weaker opposition (and playing friendlies against weaker opposition or none at all), it doesn't negate the distortion completely.

It can still give you an artificially higher ranking than winning some but also losing some matches against tougher opposition.

Trying to stop the distortion caused by friendlies is only a part of it, although a very positive step.

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby Finisher1 » 15 Jun 2018, 11:21

liquidfootball2 wrote:
15 Jun 2018, 09:23
less points

Image

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby Finisher1 » 15 Jun 2018, 12:04

Finnish Premier League player Abdallah Said starts!

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby murf » 15 Jun 2018, 13:30

Great commentary there from the BBC, trying to work out why Suarez had his goal disallowed. Was it 2 replays before they realised he had actually missed the goal??

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby blahblah » 15 Jun 2018, 17:34

murf wrote:
15 Jun 2018, 13:30
Great commentary there from the BBC, trying to work out why Suarez had his goal disallowed. Was it 2 replays before they realised he had actually missed the goal??
At least 2 :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby From4corners » 15 Jun 2018, 19:07

Finisher1 wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 23:12

Italy and Netherlands may not be Real Madrid and Barcelona, but they are totally relevant teams when we are talking about decent teams for World Cup.

Saying that ... Netherlands .... wouldn't add anything to World Cup is quite ignorant, to be honest.
Not this time we're not, and that's coming from a Dutchie. We suck.

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby Finisher1 » 15 Jun 2018, 19:12

From4corners wrote:
15 Jun 2018, 19:07
Finisher1 wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 23:12

Italy and Netherlands may not be Real Madrid and Barcelona, but they are totally relevant teams when we are talking about decent teams for World Cup.

Saying that ... Netherlands .... wouldn't add anything to World Cup is quite ignorant, to be honest.
Not this time we're not, and that's coming from a Dutchie. We suck.
It's all relative really. You are not Barcelona or Real Madrid, and you are not as good as back in 2010 or 2014, but you are still a top team in a worldwide perspective.

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby blahblah » 15 Jun 2018, 20:03

From4corners wrote:
15 Jun 2018, 19:07
Finisher1 wrote:
14 Jun 2018, 23:12

Italy and Netherlands may not be Real Madrid and Barcelona, but they are totally relevant teams when we are talking about decent teams for World Cup.

Saying that ... Netherlands .... wouldn't add anything to World Cup is quite ignorant, to be honest.
Not this time we're not, and that's coming from a Dutchie. We suck.
Any reason(s)? Seems odd to me....

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby bluenosey » 15 Jun 2018, 20:34

Great game tonight.

Thought it would be a bore draw but delighted to be wrong.

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby liquidfootball2 » 15 Jun 2018, 20:52

You can have all the Saudis, Iran's, Morocco's and Egypt's

I want good teams playing each other everytime

Absolutely brilliant

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby blahblah » 15 Jun 2018, 20:57

liquidfootball2 wrote:
15 Jun 2018, 20:52
You can have all the Saudis, Iran's, Morocco's and Egypt's

I want good teams playing each other everytime

Absolutely brilliant
Without the ugly people, us beautiful people wouldn't be.....

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby forestfan » 15 Jun 2018, 20:58

Yeah, so much quality on show. I thought it would be cagey, but as always, an early goal sets a game alight. Last time around I missed the game of the tournament involving Spain on the second night, wasn’t making the same mistake again!

Ronaldo proving he’s still got it, and as for Iniesta, why is he going into semi-retirement in Japan? He’s got another 4 years in him. Costa showing Chelsea what they’ve lost, and a crisp finish from Nacho, as Jeff Stelling would no doubt say :wink:

Still, this is World Cup football, I predict one of them will lose to Iran and be sent packing...

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Re: Russia 2018 Chat - Friday night in Sochi, Spain or Portugal?

Postby liquidfootball2 » 15 Jun 2018, 21:04

Ronaldo is something else, what a player


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