View from a non-DM player

[Tacalabala]

No what I am saying is the following:

I have no issue with someone working in a group and they enter their teams, all pay for their own entries and cheques get paid into their accounts

I do however think it is not fair when someone creates ten different email addresses under different names and then uses these to enter teams without their involvement.

And how do you actually distinguish the latter from the former?

[Ashers]

No what I am saying is the following:

I have no issue with someone working in a group and they enter their teams, all pay for their own entries and cheques get paid into their accounts

I do however think it is not fair when someone creates ten different email addresses under different names and then uses these to enter teams without their involvement.

And how do you actually distinguish the latter from the former?

Easy:

1) Would be myself and my brother joining up together and we both enter 1 team each into the free version. He enters his teams, does his own changes and if either of us win, we split the money 50/50

2) I register myself and my brother into the free version of SDT and he has no involvement. If his teams wins, he gets the cheque but I claim 100% of the winnings.


And to make it clear I have no involvement with Chezz, Edmondson or Zimmerman.

[Tacalabala]

No what I am saying is the following:

I have no issue with someone working in a group and they enter their teams, all pay for their own entries and cheques get paid into their accounts

I do however think it is not fair when someone creates ten different email addresses under different names and then uses these to enter teams without their involvement.

And how do you actually distinguish the latter from the former?

Easy:

1) Would be myself and my brother joining up together and we both enter 1 team each into the free version. He enters his teams, does his own changes and if either of us win, we split the money 50/50

2) I register myself and my brother into the free version of SDT and he has no involvement. If his teams wins, he gets the cheque but I claim 100% of the winnings.


And to make it clear I have no involvement with Chezz, Edmondson or Zimmerman.

Exactly, you've proved my point. Related or unrelated, it's impossible for these operators to say with any authority whose in control of teams. This might sound ridiculous, but what if for arguments sake somebody without the use of their arms wanted to play, are they breaking the rules because they aren't doing the clicking?

[Ashers]

Technically yes (Not that I agree with this at all)

No automated process of any kind may be used in any way to facilitate any element of Game entry, team changes (I.e. transfers) and Weekend Dream Team entry. This entry must be made manually by the entrant themselves using the form available on the Websites and the Applications. Entries submitted by agents or third parties are not permitted and will be invalid and we reserve the right to remove all, or some, of those entrants and entries from the game

[Tacalabala]

But as Edmondson has stated, in written correspondence they (SDT I think it was) were quite happy to have only a number of people from a much larger syndicate doing the clicking.

If that's the case, that's a green light in my view.

[Zoolander]

Although I agree that Chuck went too far and would have gained more respect from resigning the chairmanships, it concerns me that admin have yet to pass comment on the FISOer's who are blatantly cheating.

Such as?

I won't name anyone but I have seen several posts that suggest some members are using relatives names to gain more entries into competitions. TFFE chit chat thread being the latest.

I'm not accusing you Ashers, I just think you weren't putting your point across very well.

I also agree with your examples of what is acceptable and what isn't but I'm afraid that example 2 is definitely being used by several members of this forum.

[Jagduracell]

I think part of the problem is that it seems to be thrown in the faces of those that believe that getting your partners involved is cheating.

For instance, I may have just missed it but I haven't seen Joanne Edmondson posting on here yet she has entered a team in the Fiso Elite League that I thought was for Fiso members?

However, I'm very surprised that 'Edmondson' hasn't entered a team as he is fairly active on here.

I'm sure that most can appreciate that suspicions are going to be raised that Edmondson is controlling both his and his partners teams due to this?

(Sorry, to single you out Edmo but it just seemed to be the most obvious case)


When I was a newbie on this forum I was singled out by Chuck when I won the TFF MOTW and then my wife started entering teams (I asked her if she minded me using her name and used our joint account but she really had no input to the teams). I was naive and didn't really think about it being an issue as it was so obvious that so many people at the top of the monthly/weekly leaderboards were doing the same. However, in hindsight it was the wrong thing to do and I openly admit I was trying to get round the rules that were in place which was wrong.

To me it does seem a little bit two-faced and quite disappointing to me that certain entrants/posters are up in arms about cheating but will do what they can to 'bend the rules'

[jpk]

As for automation, as I've said, that is a totally different issue and there is unamimous agreement that automation is cheating.

not quite unanimous

I made a Sun WDT automater and it has had over 350 downloads

[Tacalabala]

As for automation, as I've said, that is a totally different issue and there is unamimous agreement that automation is cheating.

not quite unanimous

I made a Sun WDT automater and it has had over 350 downloads

It's not bypassing the 'front end' logins and all that though, is it? That's what Tam were doing.

[t.gridley]

I play by the rules, always have done, always will do.

The only way to stop "cheating" is by stopping all mini league prizes and making all games pay to play.

[Edmondson]

I think part of the problem is that it seems to be thrown in the faces of those that believe that getting your partners involved is cheating.

For instance, I may have just missed it but I haven't seen Joanne Edmondson posting on here yet she has entered a team in the Fiso Elite League that I thought was for Fiso members?

However, I'm very surprised that 'Edmondson' hasn't entered a team as he is fairly active on here.

I'm sure that most can appreciate that suspicions are going to be raised that Edmondson is controlling both his and his partners teams due to this?

(Sorry, to single you out Edmo but it just seemed to be the most obvious case)


When I was a newbie on this forum I was singled out by Chuck when I won the TFF MOTW and then my wife started entering teams (I asked her if she minded me using her name and used our joint account but she really had no input to the teams). I was naive and didn't really think about it being an issue as it was so obvious that so many people at the top of the monthly/weekly leaderboards were doing the same. However, in hindsight it was the wrong thing to do and I openly admit I was trying to get round the rules that were in place which was wrong.

To me it does seem a little bit two-faced and quite disappointing to me that certain entrants/posters are up in arms about cheating but will do what they can to 'bend the rules'

Caught out by the 1 free team, had entered mine into pa's league, then wanted to keep up supporting the fiso elite, so used jo's.

[Jagduracell]

Fair enough I suppose but you can understand why question marks would arise.

[Vid]

Fair enough I suppose but you can understand why question marks would arise.

Several posters did the same thing, announced in the Elite/ pa's 8s threads

[Achiles74]

To sum up

1) Chuck Taylors friends will all defend him no matter what (Zoolander etc).

2) Chuck was wrong and deserved to be banned you can't accuse people of cheating and then take them out of a FISO mni league against the wishes of the FISO admin.

When I argued against Chuck on the Daily Mail threads, straight away his friends all rushed out to defend him and thrown dirt at me - A great number of them now follow me around on him and post insulting comments (being the bigger man I refuse to get involved in silly wars on topics).

All of Chuck Taylors friends know who they are.

In this case the FISO admin has done exactly the right thing.

This is my last word on the subject.

[Tacalabala]

OK, Achiles74, but what is your view on the issues (syndicates, family entries) discussed in this thread?

[Achiles74]

Its up to the game providers to police the game not the people who play the game.

Same with football - I hate it when players try to get players sent off in football matches by waving red cards at them, it is up to the ref to police the game not the players.

As for family members playing the game (why not surely games must be open to everyone).

A question for you.

If your son/daughter asked for help with homework would you

a) Tell them to do theselves as for you to offer to do any part of it would be cheating
b) Offer them guidance and tell them where they are going wrong and how they could improve the homework?

[Zoolander]

A question for you.

If your son/daughter asked for help with homework would you

a) Tell them to do theselves as for you to offer to do any part of it would be cheating
b) Offer them guidance and tell them where they are going wrong and how they could improve the homework?

Comparing helping your children in their education with trying to make a quick buck by multi teaming in a fantasy football game.

[Achiles74]

A question for you.

If your son/daughter asked for help with homework would you

a) Tell them to do theselves as for you to offer to do any part of it would be cheating
b) Offer them guidance and tell them where they are going wrong and how they could improve the homework?

Comparing helping your children in their education with trying to make a quick buck by multi teaming in a fantasy football game.

Comparing helping your children in education with helping someone not make a total tit of themselves by making a amateur decision in fantasy football.

Same applies.

I didnt realise you were never allowed to help people (family members) with transfers if they asked for help?

Surely this is the point of FISO people post on various fantasy footie forums and ask for help with transfers etc.

Perhaps family members should ONLY ask for help over forums (Would that make you happy Zoolander FFS).

Chuck was going off on a crusade against people with the same surnames and trying to get them banned from games.
When the game providers ignored him, he chucked the people he suspected out of the mini league of FISO.

for that, he got banned and deservebly banned.

End of

[mad dog]

And to make it clear I have no sexual involvement with Chezz, Edmondson or Zimmerman.

Liar!


Tac that post of mine you highlighted was a piss take in reaction to sanjaychill claiming he had 7 wins in the first week of wdt this season,

At the start of the season I had the full allocation of 61 teams and with my mate superior we are 50-50 on everything, I have no teams in my misses name, brother, cat although I do have one in my mums name for pa's super 8 league as I had entered all my full allocation and wanted to take part in a fiso league.

The season before i used my mum in a syndicate as that's what everyone was doing but not this season

[murf]

I play by the rules, always have done, always will do.

The only way to stop "cheating" is by stopping all mini league prizes and making all games pay to play.

Pretty much sums it up doesn't it?

Do any 'amateur' players really care about the inter-mini league competitions? They just want to beat their mates in their league. That is what mini leagues should be about. Would also help with the 'practicality of fun' if you could enter your team in more than one mini league where current rules forbid it (e.g. TFF (and S*n??)).

[blahblah]

Do any 'amateur' players really care about the inter-mini league competitions? They just want to beat their mates in their league. That is what mini leagues should be about. Would also help with the 'practicality of fun' if you could enter your team in more than one mini league where current rules forbid it (e.g. TFF (and S*n??)).

That was the appeal of FPL, until they shafted the website

Free to enter Leagues are asking for trouble if they give out prizes that are worth "going the extra mile" for; but I don't see why TFF and the other pay-to-enter games can not let teams enter 3 Mini-Leagues.

[murf]

I don't see why TFF and the other pay-to-enter games can not let teams enter 3 Mini-Leagues.

Because the scoring teams (top 5 in TFF) within leading minileagues could be identical! Pretty easy to enter your team into the 3 leagues most likely to win (e.g. FISO and two others). Would also reduce the chances of anybody else winning it (e.g. a player having a good year like Devilsweep or The Bear setting up one with their own teams) meaning they would instead enter the FISO type leagues increasing the likelihood of them winning and being near-identical.

[blahblah]

That would just mean 3 Leagues with the same top 5, rather than one?

(I don't pay any attention to the TFF prizes, tbh: and only have 5 teams because it wasn't much more than having the Egg and Block teams)

[WilBert]

First read about this last night .

Chuck is my friend and I feel deeply sorry and upset that his crusade has ended in him being banned from fiso.  However I agree, Admin had no option really.

If you are performing a role/duty and your morals prevent you fulfilling that role then, as has been mentioned, then the best course of action is to step down.  You shouldn’t compromise the duties of the role for your own agenda.

I feel somewhat culpable as this situation first started to bubble a little over a year ago when both Chuck and I were in contention for the D M’s top prize last season and there was a lot of multis hovering.  I fanned the fire at that time and tried, vainly, to stop chuck becoming so fanatical about it. As he told me at the time, he is a grown man he does not need to be told what to do.

For me there is no right or wrong answer here, the rules have been discussed to death but for me, there is a lot of moral grey area.

Jag’s candid post sums things up for me.  He flaunted the rules and I remember him and Chuck having a bit of an exchange about it.  Jag’s gone away, thought about it, and settled on a path after wrestling with his morality.

Others use very eloquent reasoning and justification here and elsewhere as to why it’s not wrong and therefore are comfortable with their moral take on the situation.

Others are just sheep who will follow what feels comfortable for them or what they see others doing.

I struggled with it and I would have been outraged had I lost out on a national prize to a multi, but my morality made me re-think. Along the same lines as murf said about the reason why I play these games.  A national prize would be nice but I play for the banter, friendship and respect.  Getting close last year I lost perspective and it has tarnished my fantasy experience.

As long as multis, in whatever form, can live with their morality then great for them but the won’t have my respect.  If the “multis” laugh at my stupid morality I’m not bothered about their respect.

I just hope chuck’s legacy won’t be as the one who killed mini-league prizes, that said, if prizes are stopped then great we can get back to enjoying the game for the game’s sake.

I’ll miss you chuck, thank you for being a friend and for being true to yourself. 

[Striker]

I just hope chuck’s legacy won’t be as the one who killed mini-league prizes, that said, if prizes are stopped then great we can get back to enjoying the game for the game’s sake. 

It would be a good legacy for anyone to have killed off money prizes for super leagues which has been the cause of so many FF "problems" over the years. I've argued for a long time that super league prizes should be top class "corporate type" days out to sporting events such as Cup Finals, Tests, etc. This would be in line with the intended spirit of super leagues, and would reduce the incentive for individuals to cheat.

Although I feel that Chuck went about things like a pratt, I support his good intentions.

[murf]

I just hope chuck’s legacy won’t be as the one who killed mini-league prizes, that said, if prizes are stopped then great we can get back to enjoying the game for the game’s sake. 

It would be a good legacy for anyone to have killed off money prizes for super leagues which has been the cause of so many FF "problems" over the years. I've argued for a long time that super league prizes should be top class "corporate type" days out to sporting events such as Cup Finals, Tests, etc. This would be in line with the intended spirit of super leagues, and would reduce the incentive for individuals to cheat OR TARGET THEM.

Although I feel that Chuck went about things like a pratt, I support his good intentions.

+1 (with addition in red)

I really enjoyed a day out driving fast cars at Donington with some fellow FISOers as part of a mini-league prize in a Fantasy F1 comp.

[Jagduracell]

I think part of the problem is that it seems to be thrown in the faces of those that believe that getting your partners involved is cheating.

For instance, I may have just missed it but I haven't seen Joanne Edmondson posting on here yet she has entered a team in the Fiso Elite League that I thought was for Fiso members?

However, I'm very surprised that 'Edmondson' hasn't entered a team as he is fairly active on here.

I'm sure that most can appreciate that suspicions are going to be raised that Edmondson is controlling both his and his partners teams due to this?

(Sorry, to single you out Edmo but it just seemed to be the most obvious case)


When I was a newbie on this forum I was singled out by Chuck when I won the TFF MOTW and then my wife started entering teams (I asked her if she minded me using her name and used our joint account but she really had no input to the teams). I was naive and didn't really think about it being an issue as it was so obvious that so many people at the top of the monthly/weekly leaderboards were doing the same. However, in hindsight it was the wrong thing to do and I openly admit I was trying to get round the rules that were in place which was wrong.

To me it does seem a little bit two-faced and quite disappointing to me that certain entrants/posters are up in arms about cheating but will do what they can to 'bend the rules'

Caught out by the 1 free team, had entered mine into pa's league, then wanted to keep up supporting the fiso elite, so used jo's.

Can I ask, just out of interest, why you didn't use one of your paid for teams to enter the Elite League? Had you already allocated these to other mini-leagues?

[blessedbrian]

I really enjoyed a day out driving fast cars at Donington with some fellow FISOers as part of a mini-league prize in a Fantasy F1 comp.

similar great experience with FISOers as part of the mini-league that won Tackle Townsend and we all ended up with a weekend trip for 10 to Barcelona-Valencia

[mad dog]

I think part of the problem is that it seems to be thrown in the faces of those that believe that getting your partners involved is cheating.

For instance, I may have just missed it but I haven't seen Joanne Edmondson posting on here yet she has entered a team in the Fiso Elite League that I thought was for Fiso members?

However, I'm very surprised that 'Edmondson' hasn't entered a team as he is fairly active on here.

I'm sure that most can appreciate that suspicions are going to be raised that Edmondson is controlling both his and his partners teams due to this?

(Sorry, to single you out Edmo but it just seemed to be the most obvious case)


When I was a newbie on this forum I was singled out by Chuck when I won the TFF MOTW and then my wife started entering teams (I asked her if she minded me using her name and used our joint account but she really had no input to the teams). I was naive and didn't really think about it being an issue as it was so obvious that so many people at the top of the monthly/weekly leaderboards were doing the same. However, in hindsight it was the wrong thing to do and I openly admit I was trying to get round the rules that were in place which was wrong.

To me it does seem a little bit two-faced and quite disappointing to me that certain entrants/posters are up in arms about cheating but will do what they can to 'bend the rules'

Caught out by the 1 free team, had entered mine into pa's league, then wanted to keep up supporting the fiso elite, so used jo's.

Can I ask, just out of interest, why you didn't use one of your paid for teams to enter the Elite League? Had you already allocated these to other mini-leagues?

Similar here jag, what do you do? It's a morally grey area.

Do you carry on doing your own thing or do as everybody else

[Mystery]

With Murf and Striker on this one.

Breaking the rules is wrong. You'll all know the term "gamesmanship" - stuff that's a bit shady but not out and out cheating. Against the spirit of the rules. Or subjective and difficult to prove.

A lot of this is about gamesmanship. The game rules and prizes almost encourage it so someones always going to take advantage.

It's like diving in the penalty area - sure we'd probably not admit to it. But maybe we've allowed ourselves to get knocked over a bit easier than you might normally once or twice and reaped the rewards.

I'd like to see the back of ML prizes and of restrictions on numbers of prizes. I don't think they add to the enjoyment of the game. It becomes an investment - if you want an investment there's plenty of other methods out there to take.