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Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

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Razorback
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Re: Andy Edwards

Post by Razorback »

andye wrote:It is sad that individuals like this are driving good intelligent fantasy players away from FISO
No offence Andy but if you're referring to FF managers with a similar skill set as yourself then this comment carries very little weight as they rarely, if ever, make any significant contribution to these forums and that's been the case ever since I've been a member...IMO :wink: ...

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Re: Andy Edwards

Post by Razorback »

Malrom wrote:
murf wrote:
hancockjr wrote:You'll have to explain to those who don't know the Mail game what he has done to cheat, given that it is a serious allegation and not one that, I'm sure, you'd make without a very firm basis.
If you wouldn't mind.....
As I never played this game, I still have no clue what the crime is.
Cany anybody explain in simple words what's wrong?
With simple I mean not more than 2 lines :mrgreen:
The main crime being discussed, I think, is that an individual is managing more than five teams (which is something only GFM can really look into).

However, a secondary crime of 'conferring' between FF managers in the same mini league has also been suggested however I personally don't see this as a rule break as to me this is in the same ball park as what was done to get the FISO mini leagues organised earlier this season...

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Re: Andy Edwards

Post by Vid »

Malrom wrote:
murf wrote:
hancockjr wrote:You'll have to explain to those who don't know the Mail game what he has done to cheat, given that it is a serious allegation and not one that, I'm sure, you'd make without a very firm basis.
If you wouldn't mind.....
As I never played this game, I still have no clue what the crime is.
Cany anybody explain in simple words what's wrong?
With simple I mean not more than 2 lines :mrgreen:
As I understand it (may take more than 2 lines though) -

Daily Mail, free to play, maximum 5 entries/ person, each entry may enter 5 MLs = 1 person may participate in 25 different MLs
ML prize (average score of all teams in ML) = £5k (2 or more identical teams invalidate ML)
Many MLs in contention are being run as syndicates = teams selected/ transfers made either by group agreement or by one person running the whole show
Some syndicate members may well be very silent partners with entries controlled completely by friend/ family member.
Some entrants are probably using several email addresses and slight name variations to circumvent the 5 entries/ person rule (probably due to having no friends/ family to work with)

For the majority of arguments see the SDT forums over the past few years, main difference being in SDT you had to pay to play but the rewards were much higher than £5k.

Whilst Chuck may not like it, many of his issues are non-issues, structured MLs are within the rules at present and I'd think there'll be quite a few established syndicates kicking themselves for missing out on a shot at £5k for free.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Chuck Taylor »

If an individual controlling another persons teams is not an 'issue' when the terms state teams may not be entered by agents or third parties then I truely am 'not intelligent' as that is the sole accusation I am making.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Razorback »

Chuck Taylor wrote:If an individual controlling another persons teams is not an 'issue' when the terms state teams may not be entered by agents or third parties then I truely am 'not intelligent' as that is the sole accusation I am making.
Nope that is an issue & you're well within your rights to flag this up to GFM.

However, you did previously post the following:
Chuck Taylor wrote:The trouble is devil that myself, you, suzy, nabby and bloggie (FISO 9) are in direct competition with each other so would not compare teams/work together whereas those that have used partners/relatives have a massive benefit of knowing their own teams/going down the same route.
This didn't come across as you complaining about an individual managing teams under multiple identities, more that a group of individuals were consulting each other regarding players selected, transfers, captaincy choices etc...

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Vid »

Chuck Taylor wrote:If an individual controlling another persons teams is not an 'issue' when the terms state teams may not be entered by agents or third parties then I truely am 'not intelligent' as that is the sole accusation I am making.
It has gone on for years in every game that has had a similar unenforceable rule, whilst many of your suspicions may well be accurate, you have no proof whatsoever, in most cases it will be nigh on impossible for GFM to investigate and find conclusive proof (if they could be bothered to look in the first place).

With this type of prize on offer syndicates will target it with structured attempts and in truth it makes perfect sense to get the missus involved at some level, bigger share of the prize money coming into the house, pays for the summer holiday.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Chuck Taylor »

Well I can categorically say that was not the intention as my first post of this thread is the full basis to my concern and that is how it will stay.
My post you refer to is just highlighting an advantage that league has, which FISO could also use. It is not in the rules that superleague teams cannot be discussed with fellow members, hence why I have not made an official enquiry about it.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Chuck Taylor »

And now Vid is condoning entering teams under the names of partners. Whatever happened to playing within the spirit of the game? and following the rules set by the organisers whether they have been stuck to in the past is neither here nor there.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by SUZYKINS »

no one can accuse me ........................I even ended up with 6 teams in one of my leagues :oops: :oops: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Razorback »

Chuck Taylor wrote:And now Vid is condoning entering teams under the names of partners. Whatever happened to playing within the spirit of the game? and following the rules set by the organisers whether they have been stuck to in the past is neither here nor there.
I don't think Vid is condoning the entering of teams under partners/relatives names, he's just highlighting that this is nothing new & that more often than not game providers are reluctant to dedicate any real resource to stop it from happening...

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Malrom »

Razorback and Vid, thank you for making it clear, even with more than 2 lines ;-)

:D :D

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Chuck Taylor »

'In truth it makes perfect sense'

Hardly a negative response.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Razorback »

Chuck Taylor wrote:'In truth it makes perfect sense'

Hardly a negative response.
I don't think Vid's post is either negative or postive...and to an extent I agree with what he's said. If players know that they can get away with this & increase their chances of collecting a share of the prize fund then, other than ethics, why wouldn't they do it :?:

Because I've seen it happen across multiple games pretty much every season I've been involved in FF, I unfortunately have a great deal of apathy towards this and I'm not really sure if anything positive can come from getting overly frustrated with it...

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Vid »

Chuck Taylor wrote:And now Vid is condoning entering teams under the names of partners. Whatever happened to playing within the spirit of the game? and following the rules set by the organisers whether they have been stuck to in the past is neither here nor there.
Absolutely nothing to do with having a stance one way or the other, it simply makes sense for those targeting such prizes to play for a greater share by involving family members. The "spirit of the game" lies in the eyes of the beholder, it's a competition with prize money and in all honesty, if there's an edge to be had the fault lies at the feet of the game's organizer, not those taking advantage of weak T&Cs or a poorly thought out game structure.

Not something that I have or would do as I have quite a few contacts on here that I have worked with in various FF games with varying degrees of success.

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Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Mystery »

What a holier than thou thread. Let's pick a crime of our choosing and accuse a wide group of people of committing it and see what happens.

Chuck - you're within your rights to complain to GFM and some, all or none of your suggestions will be right. That's fine. You've made your statement. Now move on. Let others make their contrary statements and they'll move on too.

A thread containing nothing more than "such and such is cheating", "no I'm not", "yeah you are" really isn't a worthy thread and is probably veering close to the forum Ts & Cs let alone libel / slander laws.

Let GFM decide. If they're not capable of it then take your custom elsewhere next season.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by grob »

Chuck Taylor wrote:And now Vid is condoning entering teams under the names of partners. Whatever happened to playing within the spirit of the game? and following the rules set by the organisers whether they have been stuck to in the past is neither here nor there.
Unfortunately,such syndicates targeting the £5k cash ML prize by manipulating the rules restricting each entrant to a maximum of 5 teams wouldn't bother playing if the cash wasn't on the table,despite entry being free of charge.

The motive of such syndicates is pure greed, and whilst Chuck tends to scatter his ammunition sometimes, if people are setting up additional teams in the names of partners or friends based on the expectation that they won't get caught because they've got away with it before,they deserve to be named and shamed if and when they are caught.

Otherwise,as Striker pointed out earlier,many of those caught stealing on CtV in the London riots did so in the belief that they wouldn't get caught. Now they are being caught and will have themselves criminal records as a result.

This confidence by those on the make that they won't get caught could be just as easily applied in any department store like Woolworths if people noticed the counters weren't fully staffed and no-one was looking in their direction.

Sadly it's all part of the moral decline that's taken place in this country, where the "spirit of the game" to which Chuck referred is laughed at by the abusers.

The rest who play by the rules are at an obvious disadvantage,and can only hope the culprits will get their "come uppance" eventually.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Achiles74 »

To be honest while I have been on FISO, Andye has offered nothing but good advice to people taking part in fantasy games, even showing how he won a major prize one season.

Chuck it would appear has offered nothing positive to FISO instead choosing to go down wild witchhunts and seeking to use FISO as a method of getting players thrown out of fantasy games.

This should be left to GFM to police, I feel it is against fair play for fellow players to seek to get fellow players banned from fantasty games solely to increase the chance they may have of winning said fantasy game.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Chuck Taylor »

I run the FISO Sky League.
I run TFFs FISO FC.
I run the FISO BDO Darts League.
I've run TFF CL.
I organised this seasons FISO Mail Leagues.
I ran FISOs Espn scrums Rugby World Cup.
I was the main reason GFM kicked out the cheating Prosser clan from the Mail.

I bring nothing to FISO :D

Bye bye Mr Scout, close the door on your way out.
Last edited by Chuck Taylor on 30 Dec 2011, 23:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Achiles74 »

And why do you run all these mini-leagues for FISO I may ask?

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Achiles74 »

And how many more people will you try to make GFM throw out of the Mailgame?
Whether they are innocent or not?
Does it really matter as long as it gives you a better chance of winning a prize with the Mail game?

I think not.
Fair play matters to me, it does not concern me if a fellow player is cheating, you should have enough faith in your own abilities to beat anyone who cheats in a fantasy game.
Or are you stating that anyone who has won a major prize in a fantasy game is a cheat?

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Chuck Taylor »

God help me.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Achiles74 »

A shame you don't know my name, otherwise you would be looking for players with the same surname as myself :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by acceptable username »

I mostly agree with the premise of finding suspected multi-entrants and reporting your concerns to the operators of the game. The rest, not so much.

In you're interested Chuck - in the top 1000 there are 7 teams from John Mccall (including teams in 48th and 72nd), a Janice Mccall and a Janice McCall, 3 Alistair Mccalls, 3 Stephen Mccalls and a Stephen McCall, 2 Peter Mccalls and 2 Joyce Mccalls.

IP checks should tell GFM if there are issues over Ben Haynes/Benjamin Haynes and the 7 Nigel Barretts (plus John, Janice and Stephen Mccall/McCall).

The partners/family members/friends cases will be harder to prove as presumably these separate people actually exist. How do you then decide whether they are puppet accounts? Comparing timestamps on logins/transfers/substitutions between accounts? Asking them to explain thought processes on transfers made? Seems a massive ball ache that they'd only potentially bother with if one of these managers won a prize at the end of the season.

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Re: Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 1

Post by murf »

acceptable username wrote:I mostly agree with the premise of finding suspected multi-entrants and reporting your concerns to the operators of the game. The rest, not so much.
Agreed.

It is a recipe for disaster running a free game with significant cash prizes. Either have crap prizes (FPL) or a free for all (TFF). I'd love to think it was an even playing field with my 5 teams against everyone else's 5 teams but I live in the real world.

As for a little collusion in superleagues then isn't that an obvious thing to do? Even if keeping teams private and just saying things like 'stick your most Man City biased team in this league'.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by thompson »

Three more couples that GFM may want to investigate based on their performance in the last few years:

Rebecca Dearden (Campbell Dearden)
Marion Went (George Went)
Lee Fricker (Panna Patel)

It is clear from the rules that people should not be managing other peoples teams and this is presumably why the Prosser teams have been disqualified. I do not know if any individual in the top 100 is breaking this rule but the fact that the top 8 teams with womens names all seem to be connected with teams entered by good male players does seem suspicious. I have contacted GFM about multi-entrants before but did not get a response. I think that highlighting the number of potential multi-entrants is something which is worth doing and hope that GFM will take action.

As the winning league will almost certainly have at least one FISO member the sensible solution would seem to be for people to post which teams are in each league. For the record I am not in any leagues.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Striker »

I'm not sure if Chuck is going about this in the right way, because the mini-league problem is caused by the games organisers. I've always argued that the way to minimise mini-league fraud is to restrict prizes to say a really good day out at a Test Match or similar for the top 10 managers in a mini-league. If one manager has more than one of those teams, the day out will be for a number less than 10, as he can't go twice. This prize would be much more in line with the spirit intended.

However I would find it totally unacceptable for a manager controlling more than the approved number of teams to nick the overall first prize from someone who has stuck to the rules.

Furthermore I would find it obnoxious if a top fantasy manager controlling more than five teams was to steal the £20,000 first prize from someone who previously had had no success in fantasy football.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by grob »

^
Nail on head.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Chuck Taylor »

thompson wrote:As the winning league will almost certainly have at least one FISO member the sensible solution would seem to be for people to post which teams are in each league. For the record I am not in any leagues.
A good suggestion.

Top 5 Superleagues
1 Mr Edwards Aardvarks 1679.40
2 Mr Edwards Bears 1676.20
3 Mr Cane FISO 9 1674.40
4 Mr Tait SUZYKINS 1667.80
5 Mr McGeoghan FISO 17 1666.00

FISO 9
1 Mr Andrew Jones Devilsweep Smash (FISO ID devilsweep)
2 Mr Russell Cane Chuck Chaplin (FISO ID Chuck Taylor)
3 Mr Ray Tait Suzykins Utd 5 (FISO ID Suzykins)
4 Mr Phil Dines Lily (FISO ID Nabby)
5 Mr LIAM MANNION Park Rangel (FISO ID Bloggie)

Seeing as andye, Suzy and Rick(McGeoghan?) are on FISO they should have nothing to hide. Do they though?

Lots of info flooding in on this thread and privately to me now, I'll be updating the first post in the next few days.

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by Inglebongas »

Chuck....went for a look myself, on the leaderboards and various leagues I'm in.....ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!...look to your own Chuck...for me they can remain anonymous...but for you, you must root them out and put them on the list...mind you the criteria is so slack anyone could end up on it....

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Re: Partnerships/Relations/Team name abnormalities top 100

Post by sparx14 »

acceptable username wrote: The partners/family members/friends cases will be harder to prove as presumably these separate people actually exist. How do you then decide whether they are puppet accounts? Comparing timestamps on logins/transfers/substitutions between accounts? Asking them to explain thought processes on transfers made?
From where I'm standing (as someone who doesn't play this game) I would say it is highly likely that there are a number of people that have created these "puppet accounts" where they have used their email and that of their girlfriend / family to control more entries than the standard 5.

It appears that this is against the rules? if so, if I was losing out as a geniune contestant to someone who had broken the rules I would ask the game organisers to investigate it.

However, as acceptable username pointed out, I'm not sure how it can be policed.

You might have pretty good evidence against 5 people with the same surname, who have similar teams, who all make transfers at the same time. But then again, they might be a competitive family who all control their own teams and make their transfers once a week when they all pop down the internet cafe together.

So the above team is kicked out, and then a team of 5 apparent strangers - all different surnames, all made transfers at different times etc ends up winning. It may just be that someone was aware that it would be obvious they were controlling multiple teams and on purposely used different names and made transfers at different times to avoid being caught.

This would then mean that infact more experienced "cheaters" could expose other cheaters that are more obviosly cheating, but in the end someone who has cheated still wins.

On another note, everyone may be playing within in the rules and threads like this spreading paranoia.

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