Car maintenance - cleaning rear brake shoes

Post by **cheshire cat** » 15 Mar 2007, 15:00

My car (1.3L 2002 Ford Ka) recently passed it's MOT but the mechanic said the brake tests only just passed, and that it's most likely due to dirty or greasy brake shoes on the rear wheels.

The rear wheel "service brake" passed with a score (?) of 52%, apparenetly the legal min is 50%
The "parking brake" (handbrake) passed with a score of 19% (legal min 16%).

He said given the low mileage (23k) it's unlikely the shoes have worn down (unless it was driven away with the handbrake on, which is not the case), and that a good clean would do it.
He quoted me about £100 or so to do the job. Basically 3 hours labour charge at £35/hour.

So, a few questions for any of you out there who speak car-ese.
1. Can anyone explain the percentages in given in the report? What are they a measure of?
2. Is cleaning the brake shoes something that I should definitely pay someone £100 or so to do for me, or is it worth taking a look myself?
NB: I've done some basic servicing on my car before (replacing air filter, oil drop, etc) and I'm not frightened of giving something a go, plus the Father in Law said if I want to do any work I can do it in his garage and he'll help me out.

I've got a Haynes manual and a middle aged man for help, so should I have a go myself or hand the keys and a blank cheque over to the man in the garage? The observant amongst you might be able to spot my preference.

Post by **murf** » 15 Mar 2007, 15:07

No idea but £35/hour sounds cheap and 3 hours sounds excessive for a removing/cleaning job.

If that is right would you really want to attempt a job that takes a 'pro' with the right facilities and tools 3 hours?

Read it up in your Haynes manual and see how easy it sounds!

Post by **uncsimes** » 15 Mar 2007, 15:17

Might be worth seeing if there is a Ford Ka Forum.

I've got an Alfa, and if anything with it doesn't feel or sound right I just get onto the Alfa forum and do a search - ask questions. I get a pretty honest appraisal of what to do. People have even posted pictures of them doing some of the trickier jobs.

eg - started blowing out loads of black smoke a few months ago. Rang Garage - sharp intake of breath - 'sounds like your turbo or injectors mate'. Asked on the forum and was told within minutes to check a big hose going into the Turbo - they even told me where the split would be. Taped it up with Duct tape and nipped to the dealer to get a new hose - took about 10 minutes to fit it (the dealer offered to fit it but said that they would charge £50 for the pleasure).

People are genarally quite passionate about Alfa's, hence the good forum. A Ka one might not be as good - but well worth a look.

(I've done the brakes on a Mondeo before. Piece of piss (although I didn't have a manual so had to ring my Dad a couple of times), so I'd imagine that a Ka would be OK - took about an hour to put on new front pads (both sides) on the Mondy).

Post by **cheshire cat** » 15 Mar 2007, 15:18

You see, there in lies my dilemma.
I'm quite cynical, and I suspect the mechanic might be having a dump, going out for a bacon buttie, putting a fiver on the 2:10 at Kempton, reading his super soaraway Sun, then running a rag over my brake shoes in those 3 hours.
The Haynes Manual seems to show the bloke removing the wheel, removing the braking unit, inspecting, cleaning and refitting. Doesn't look especially tough and few tools involved.

Just wondered if anyone had done it, and had any tips?

Post by **cheshire cat** » 15 Mar 2007, 15:23

uncsimes wrote:People are genarally quite passionate about Alfa's, hence the good forum. A Ka one might not be as good...

Sir, you offend me!

Are you suggesting that Ka owners are anything other than devout automotive enthusiasts?

uncsimes wrote:(I've done the brakes on a Mondeo before. Piece of piss (although I didn't have a manual so had to ring my Dad a couple of times), so I'd imagine that a Ka would be OK

Part of the reason for buying the car in the first place was that it's pretty low tech and I can have a bash and doing some stuff myself. The parts are all v cheap and I have a general aversion to paying people to do jobs I can have a go at myself, and maybe learn a bit in the process.

I'll have a look round for a Ka forum, cheers

Post by **uncsimes** » 15 Mar 2007, 15:33

cheshire cat wrote:
uncsimes wrote:People are genarally quite passionate about Alfa's, hence the good forum. A Ka one might not be as good...
Sir, you offend me! Are you suggesting that Ka owners are anything other than devout automotive enthusiasts?

I wouldn't dream of it. Lovely cars, Ka's.

Good luck with getting it sorted.

Post by **Fuzzy Logic** » 15 Mar 2007, 15:39

Personally I'd doubt the mechanic, and get a second opinion. You can get free brake tests at loads of places.

I recently went for an MOT and it failed, they said they could repair all the stuff their and their would be no charge for a re-test. I took it to the manufacturers service centre for the MOT passed fine just an adjustment to headlamps and horn ( which I knew about anyway )

The first garage went on about replacement bushes for the leaf springs, brake load valve sensor was seized and front track rods needed adjusting. So glad I went elsewhere afterwards. Besides if all of that was wrong I don't think he should have let me drive the vehicle away.

Post by **uncsimes** » 15 Mar 2007, 16:08

Fuzzy Logic wrote:Personally I'd doubt the mechanic, and get a second opinion. You can get free brake tests at loads of places.

I recently went for an MOT and it failed, they said they could repair all the stuff their and their would be no charge for a re-test. I took it to the manufacturers service centre for the MOT passed fine just an adjustment to headlamps and horn ( which I knew about anyway )

The first garage went on about replacement bushes for the leaf springs, brake load valve sensor was seized and front track rods needed adjusting. So glad I went elsewhere afterwards. Besides if all of that was wrong I don't think he should have let me drive the vehicle away.

Don't see many leaf springs these days, except on Landies and some sports cars.

What car have you got, if you don't mind me asking?

Post by **Fuzzy Logic** » 15 Mar 2007, 16:26

its a van.

Post by **uncsimes** » 15 Mar 2007, 16:29

Fuzzy Logic wrote:its a van.

That explains it then!

Thought you'd got a Mustang for a minute there

Post by **Fuzzy Logic** » 15 Mar 2007, 17:28

uncsimes wrote:
Fuzzy Logic wrote:its a van.
That explains it then!

Thought you'd got a Mustang for a minute there

oo yes if only, no the household car is a Rover 200

Post by **Finsimbo** » 15 Mar 2007, 19:09

CC, rear brake drums are a piece of phish. Theres really nothing to it. To fix this, theres normally some sort of special type screw to get the drum off, that you'll need.

Once you get the drum off, with white spirit, clean the inside of the drum, get all the dirt out so that its nice and shiny again.

Generally the pads of the brake shoes wear out at the bottom of the pad if you get my meaning. This is normal. IIRC its about a couple of mill of pad on the brake itself otherwise youll need new brake shoes. What I used to do to increase the breaking power was to get very course sand paper, like the blake metal paper and rough up the surface of the shoes so that you get a better connection to the drum.

HTH.

Post by **Alchemist** » 15 Mar 2007, 20:09

Finsimbo wrote: What I used to do to increase the breaking power was to get very course sand paper, like the blake metal paper and rough up the surface of the shoes so that you get a better connection to the drum.

HTH.

Can't see how that would work. Roughing them up would only reduce the surface area between the pad and the drum thus reducing braking power! Further more they would be smoothed out within a few uses anyway.

If roughing them up were to make them perform better then pads (and drums) would be designed that way

Post by **Fuzzy Logic** » 15 Mar 2007, 20:22

Also their is adherent friction which would be adversely affected by roughing up the pad/shoe

Post by **DixieDean** » 15 Mar 2007, 20:31

So...

You want your house sorted via the interweb and now you want tips on how to run the petrol guzzler... Jesus H Christ!!!

You Cheeky git...!

Post by **Beerfuelledman** » 15 Mar 2007, 20:34

Kwik fit usually do a free brake check. Two drums could be cleaned & sorted at their leisure in an hour.

Post by **cheshire cat** » 16 Mar 2007, 10:14

Yeah, I've seen a couple of adverts for Kwik Fit, and another for some other National garage network (can't remember the name).
Seems a bit too good to be true though. Presumably, they will find something wrong that needs fixing (rather than just a clean out) otherwise, what's in it for them?

Post by **Fuzzy Logic** » 16 Mar 2007, 12:58

cheshire cat wrote:Yeah, I've seen a couple of adverts for Kwik Fit, and another for some other National garage network (can't remember the name).
Seems a bit too good to be true though. Presumably, they will find something wrong that needs fixing (rather than just a clean out) otherwise, what's in it for them?

You generally would only go for a free check if something was up with your brakes, so they check it and fix it, what any garage would do anyway. Its just advertising but you can use it to your advantage by getting a second opinion. The only thing your interested in is whether the brakes are borderline and give the same figures as you have already been given.

Post by **Wayward Lad** » 18 Aug 2007, 23:55

Also phone around and get a few quotes - you can then usually barter down the bigger operations to beat the best price you get..

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Car maintenance - cleaning rear brake shoes

Car maintenance - cleaning rear brake shoes