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Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by murf » 21 Jun 2012, 12:24

There is talk of a non-specific "all tax loopholes are illegal" type law but I'm sure clever financial and legal people will be all over the task of circumventing that one.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by golden bear » 21 Jun 2012, 12:28

Tricky Tree wrote:
golden bear wrote:What do you suggest then? We all pay no tax and it's every man (woman and child) for himself?
Where did I even remotely suggest this :roll:

I suggest that loopholes continue to be closed, clever people will find more, these will get closed etc etc etc

Would you pay less tax if given the opportunity to do so legally?
Your previous post implied that there was no point closing loopholes because people would always find ways around them anyway. So do you do allow certain people to not pay tax and make others pay full tax? Or make it an even playing field and allow everyone to pay no tax.

I'm a bit crazy in that I believe in social responsibility, think everyone should pay their tax and contribute to a better society. It's not fashionable in the Tory "screw everyone and look out for number one" world that we live in atm but I've got some principles.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Tricky Tree » 21 Jun 2012, 12:33

You clearly miss read my post then :lol:

I happily pay my taxes, if I was on bag fulls of cash I would be less happy handing over crazy amounts and if offered the chance to pay less I would.

Unfortunatlky I will never have the chance to prove or dissprove this :lol:

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Surprised » 21 Jun 2012, 12:33

He is doing legal tax avoidance which most people in the UK do. Everyone tries to reduce tax bills with tax efficient savings plans and plans to reduce inheritance tax. The crime people see is not the tax avoidance but the fact that he is rich and is doing it. He is seen to be saving a lot in tax and it is the amount that people object to. The government need to crack down on the corporation tax avoidance as that is costing billions to the Treasury in lost revenue. Once they have got that sorted then go after the dodgers like Carr and the other celebs and football stars.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by golden bear » 21 Jun 2012, 12:38

Tricky Tree wrote:You clearly miss read my post then :lol:

I happily pay my taxes, if I was on bag fulls of cash I would be less happy handing over crazy amounts and if offered the chance to pay less I would.

Unfortunatlky I will never have the chance to prove or dissprove this :lol:
There is a small possibility that I may have misread your post but I was rushing because I am at work, earning money so that I can pay my share of tax so that tossers like Jimmy Carr don't have to. :mrgreen:

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by blahblah » 21 Jun 2012, 12:40

murf wrote:There is talk of a non-specific "all tax loopholes are illegal" type law but I'm sure clever financial and legal people will be all over the task of circumventing that one.
Sounds daft as a loophole is, by definition legal.

Avoidance is legal, evasion is illegal...........

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Tricky Tree » 21 Jun 2012, 12:43

Surprised wrote:He is doing legal tax avoidance which most people in the UK do. Everyone tries to reduce tax bills with tax efficient savings plans and plans to reduce inheritance tax. The crime people see is not the tax avoidance but the fact that he is rich and is doing it. He is seen to be saving a lot in tax and it is the amount that people object to. The government need to crack down on the corporation tax avoidance as that is costing billions to the Treasury in lost revenue. Once they have got that sorted then go after the dodgers like Carr and the other celebs and football stars.
To emphasise Surprised's point

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Tpsju1uJiws/T ... /Jimmy.gif" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Bunners » 21 Jun 2012, 12:53

Tricky Tree wrote:
Surprised wrote:He is doing legal tax avoidance which most people in the UK do. Everyone tries to reduce tax bills with tax efficient savings plans and plans to reduce inheritance tax. The crime people see is not the tax avoidance but the fact that he is rich and is doing it. He is seen to be saving a lot in tax and it is the amount that people object to. The government need to crack down on the corporation tax avoidance as that is costing billions to the Treasury in lost revenue. Once they have got that sorted then go after the dodgers like Carr and the other celebs and football stars.
To emphasise Surprised's point

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Tpsju1uJiws/T ... /Jimmy.gif" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I find that astonishing, I hope all this story does is to promote some of this as completely unacceptable....... don't forget "were all in it together" :roll:

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by DrBunker » 21 Jun 2012, 13:07

Tricky Tree wrote:To emphasise Surprised's point

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Tpsju1uJiws/T ... /Jimmy.gif" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks TT. That was the point I was trying to make about the size of the entire scheme he's made use of. This is far more relevant:
blahblah wrote:I think the real story has yet to break, which is Osbourne and Cameron's mates doing the same thing, which he says is "morally reprehensible", or similar.
Their comments were very unwise; picking on Jimmy is fine but they cannot keep it to him alone and they will be surrounded by donors, friends, colleagues and relatives who partake in similar schemes. The test will be whether they extend their "wrath" to this wider group. Milliband made more sense in what he said, it was far less reactionary and thought through.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by bluenosey » 21 Jun 2012, 14:06

Tricky Tree wrote:You clearly miss read my post then :lol:

I happily pay my taxes, if I was on bag fulls of cash I would be less happy handing over crazy amounts and if offered the chance to pay less I would.

Unfortunatlky I will never have the chance to prove or dissprove this :lol:
I would like to save tax but would it not tug at your conscience if someone said you were only paying only 1% ?

I would happily pay more tax if it went on schools and hospitals. No problem there. I even reckon we ought to have a 1% charity tax to give to charities but that's just me.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Jonathan » 21 Jun 2012, 15:48

Actually it is a fair point that knowing (I assume he knew) that he was only paying 1% tax renders the "I made a terrible mistake" line a little meaningless.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by em9999 » 21 Jun 2012, 15:51

Mr cameron is a nob of the highest order...he had a nice windfall of 300 grand and didn't pay tax.....this goverment are a bunch of con merchants

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by foxinthebox2001 » 21 Jun 2012, 16:08

Jonathan wrote:Actually it is a fair point that knowing (I assume he knew) that he was only paying 1% tax renders the "I made a terrible mistake" line a little meaningless.
He is recording 8 out of 10 today, unless there is an agreement to go easy on him I expect him to get his smug a**e ripped.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by DrBunker » 21 Jun 2012, 16:17

Somehow I think he'll handle it slightly better than Angus did. It's all just material in the end.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by murf » 21 Jun 2012, 16:28

Snigger:

Shadow commons leader Angela Eagle said: "The prime minister rushed to the TV studios to condemn the tax avoidance scheme used by Jimmy Carr but he did not take the opportunity to condemn as morally repugnant the tax avoidance scheme used by Conservative supporter Gary Barlow, who's given a whole new meaning to the phrase 'Take That'. If it's all so morally repugnant, why has he just been given an OBE in the birthday honours list?"

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by goldenballs » 21 Jun 2012, 16:47

Taxes were designed for working class average earners(including me),that's the reason for loopholes.
What really bugs me is companies like vodaphone not paying corporation tax saying it has an obligation to shareholders to do so.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by foxinthebox2001 » 21 Jun 2012, 17:15

DrBunker wrote:Somehow I think he'll handle it slightly better than Angus did. It's all just material in the end.
He has said he won't make light of it, he has a fine line to tread between his usual smug persona and rank hypocrisy.
If a live audience get a whiff of it, they could turn against him.
He is more widely than respected than Deayton ever was, a United supporter born in Surrey will always have a fair share of snipers.
I saw Deayton once at Highbury, in the East stand. T gridley will remember, he was sitting next to me, and trying to wind him up.
He had only just became well known, I assumed he was one of us with his home counties accent, but he was up celebrating when United scored.
I can assure you, he has had better receptions from paying customers.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by blahblah » 21 Jun 2012, 18:00

Bernis and a tax risk of over £2bn....

Obviously not linked to his Blair Donation :?

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by bluenosey » 21 Jun 2012, 18:48

em9999 wrote:Mr cameron is a nob of the highest order...he had a nice windfall of 300 grand and didn't pay tax.....this goverment are a bunch of con merchants
Just this Government Em ? Can you list me all those MPs that fiddled there expenses ? From Cat food to pornos to duck houses. You name it. They claimed it. Across all parties.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by bluenosey » 21 Jun 2012, 18:57

murf wrote:Snigger:

Shadow commons leader Angela Eagle said: "The prime minister rushed to the TV studios to condemn the tax avoidance scheme used by Jimmy Carr but he did not take the opportunity to condemn as morally repugnant the tax avoidance scheme used by Conservative supporter Gary Barlow, who's given a whole new meaning to the phrase 'Take That'. If it's all so morally repugnant, why has he just been given an OBE in the birthday honours list?"
It's just as bad IMO. There is no excuse. Except Carr has courted controversy (as you can see I don't like him either :wink: ) so that makes it more ironic. Gary Barlow won't be the only one. I'm sure the Irish economy would have benefitted from some of U2s earnings but saw relatively little. It's always gone on. I used to know the accountant/agent of a very famous 80s band. There manager had the task of keeping them in the UK for less than 90 days a years to keep them non resident. Even bleedin' Keith Richards talks about avioiding tax in his autobiography ! There are certain chemes with generous income and capital gains tax relief if you invest in a fairly risky new company (EIS's/VCT's) so this should be enough. As someone has said, there is always a clever cloggs picking the way through the legislation and coming up with tax wheezes. We need to clamp down big time on this stuff. Anyone who lives in the UK should not be able to set up an offshore vehicle to diddle the system. If they don't like it, tough. Plenty of other countries to live in :twisted:

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by foxinthebox2001 » 21 Jun 2012, 20:52

This is a very good argument.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Zimmerman » 21 Jun 2012, 22:10

I like Jimmy Carr, so probably biased.

But I'm appalled by this.
What the eff is he apologising for?

Hasn't broke any laws.

Dr B summed it up perfectly.
Blah hits the nail on the head (re Camerons cronies doing the same thing). Wasn't it Sir Phillip Green (party advisor) show to be hoodwinking the country?

And how have take that escaped the wrath?
Joke!

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Zimmerman » 21 Jun 2012, 22:14

I know plenty of IT contractors doing the same/similar thing(s).
They earn plenty more than I, but pay much much less tax.

They are not breaking any rules. Good luck to them.

It's up to the government to close these loopholes down.

As an aside: Whatever happened to the Livingston/Boris wrangle about declaring their tax returns? Did they ever reveal the details?

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Bunners » 21 Jun 2012, 22:15

And just seen Cameron backtracking...saying im not going to comment on individuals....when he did yesterday.... Cameron really is a twit!

must say I agree with Zimmerman and hopefully all this will do is highlight these big companies etc that arent playing and also make others more nervous about offshore accounts, because lets face it before they change the rules more loopholes will be found

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Groomyd » 21 Jun 2012, 22:19

As is often the case, the mash nails the issue!



The revelation that internationally-famous household names including Jimmy Carr and Gary Barlow have lots of money and behave accordingly has prompted outrage from hypocrites and the exceptionally slow.

Dull-witted Tom Logan said: “I had assumed that Jimmy Carr wrote jokes for free, primarily to entertain the squirrels in his local park, and spent the rest of his time volunteering in an orphanage for blonde children with rickets.

“Apparently one of the things that all rich people do is keep all their money in caves on islands, because by doing this it means they get to keep more of their money as opposed to less of it.

“Personally, as a eff ing idiot I am always looking for ways to pay more tax.”

Chief Hypocrite to the Treasury Danny Alexander said: “Pop stars and comedians should be governed by the powerful sense of moral integrity that permeates the media community, rather than just doing something because it is legal.”


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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Zimmerman » 21 Jun 2012, 22:52

Discussing it on Question Time at the moment.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by DrBunker » 22 Jun 2012, 09:11

Zimmerman wrote:Discussing it on Question Time at the moment.
I missed that but I imagine it was a lot of people saying that whilst it was morally questionable they were more focused on the closing of loopholes rather than the individuals involved, just like Cameron is now with his backtracking from his earlier vitriolic comments about Carr. :roll:

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by blahblah » 22 Jun 2012, 09:17

Zimmerman wrote:I like Jimmy Carr, so probably biased.

But I'm appalled by this.
What the eff is he apologising for?

Hasn't broke any laws.

Dr B summed it up perfectly.
Blah hits the nail on the head (re Camerons cronies doing the same thing). Wasn't it Sir Phillip Green (party advisor) show to be hoodwinking the country?

And how have take that escaped the wrath?
Joke!
Green is just one of many, and probably the vast majority of the large donors to ALL political parties indulge in similar activities. But Cameron's simpleton response to Carr (ie trying to jump on yet another Populist Cause) is symptomatic of his increasing unpopularity in Cons circles. His answer to the Barlow question was what he should have said about Carr; and was pretty much what Muribond said.

After all it is what Tax Accountants get paid 6 figure salaries for.....

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by mike_d99 » 22 Jun 2012, 09:47

Don't approve of tax evasion, but you'd have to live on Planet Zarg to think that Jimmy Carr is anywhere near the biggest culprit. I suspect the main reason this thread was started was because the OP dislikes Jimmy Carr and has found a convenient stick to beat him with.

It reminds me of the Andy Gray and Richard Keys sexism thread, where FISO suddenly transformed itself into the last outpost of feminism for those whose argument it suited...

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Bert. » 22 Jun 2012, 09:53

mike_d99 wrote:Don't approve of tax evasion...
Tax avoidance is NOT tax evasion. It's legal and therefore fair enough.

If tw*ts like Cameron have a problem with it, CLOSE THE F*****G LOOPHOLE.

F*ing Cameron :x :x If he spent less time trying to be/do/say what he thinks the media want him to be/do/say and less time giving our money away to the f*****g Olympics when the health service is falling apart, transport is grinding to a halt and the jobs market is contracting faster than a spent penis then he might, just might, have some vaguely moral slightly elevated ground to take.

As it is, he makes Nixon look positively consciencious :evil:

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