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Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

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Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by bluenosey » 20 Jun 2012, 19:12

Did you hear the one about the sniping left wing comedian who really is a closet, fat cat grabbing Tory ?

The man whose cutting and supposedly humorous comments have mocked fun at those in power ?

Who could it be, I hear you ask ?

Tough one. Most comedians are usually fairly left wing so it wouldn't be someone supposedly on the cutting edge, would it ?

Well - fanfare - out of the square window, step forward Jimmy Carr :D

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18521468

"I pay what I have to and not a penny more."

Too right Jimmy. Don't fund the NHS or the Police Force. Us normal folk will do that. You just talk tax with your Daily Mail reading, Pimms drinking, fat cat chums.

Of course there are quite a few people that avoid tax but the sheer hypocrisy of the tomb faced one is quite staggering.

I can only hope his career is over now. No one will want to listen to his "jokes" about soldiers with limbs missing. To be fair, however, this story has made me do one thing a Jimmy Carr gag has never done - make me laugh :lol:

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by padmole » 20 Jun 2012, 19:19

Did I miss something and had Jimmy Carr professed to be left wing???

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Raisin » 20 Jun 2012, 19:28

I wonder which is less acceptable - governmental inactivity (or worse) that leaves these tax avoidance loopholes available - or the people who exploit them?

Put it another way. If you were rich and your accountant said 'You can pay normal tax or I can make alternative arrangements which are perfectly legal and leave you with much more of your income' what would you say? Be honest now.

Right about the hypocrisy whatever.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by bluenosey » 20 Jun 2012, 19:32

padmole wrote:Did I miss something and had Jimmy Carr professed to be left wing???
So he is right wing then - at least that figures.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by bluenosey » 20 Jun 2012, 19:40

Raisin wrote:I wonder which is less acceptable - governmental inactivity (or worse) that leaves these tax avoidance loopholes available - or the people who exploit them?

Put it another way. If you were rich and your accountant said 'You can pay normal tax or I can make alternative arrangements which are perfectly legal and leave you with much more of your income' what would you say? Be honest now.

Right about the hypocrisy whatever.
I would want to save tax - absolutely - but within reason. I wouldn't touch anything offshore as I'm not that risk averse.

These offshore schemes are very complicated and open to attack by HMRC. I'm just hoping that all of the loopholes get closed. I think you'll find a lot of entertainers/footballers have salaries paid into offshore companies which basically lend the money back to the individual by way of an intermediary.

In this instance it's just who it's happened to.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by padmole » 20 Jun 2012, 19:42

bluenosey wrote:
padmole wrote:Did I miss something and had Jimmy Carr professed to be left wing???
So he is right wing then - at least that figures.

(i) So you are right wing if you legally use the tax laws?
(ii) You are left wing if you are a comedian
(iii) You are a hypocrit if you are right wing?

I dont really see the problem - perhaps I am therefore right wing.

DOes abusing the benefits system make you right wing as well


I actually find him funny and never consider it left or right wing and him reducing his tax bill legally doesnt sniff of hypocracy to me

I am just trying to understand what the problem is - is it that he is rich or unfunny??

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by bluenosey » 20 Jun 2012, 19:47

For you Padmole :-

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 66525.html

"Yet it is lazy journalism to fixate on Mr Carr. It's true that he has given every impression of having liberal leftish, 99 per cent sensibilities on the 10 O'Clock Live show, Channel 4's crack at Jon Stewart-esque political satire. It is also true that in one sketch he donned a blonde wig and wickedly teased Barclays Bank for using sophisticated financial planning to pay tax on its profits at – yup, yup, I think you've guessed it – one per cent. All right, he's the Ken Livingstone of ribald merriment. But which among us is so pure of heart that they would glibly cast the first stone at another for flirting with the kind of weapons-grade hypocrisy that could be used, were one accidentally to swallow poison during the doctors' strike, as a makeshift emetic?"

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by padmole » 20 Jun 2012, 19:54

I must be right wing then - but an unsensitive one as having seen him live a couple of times I didnt pick up on bigoted left wing views through his humour nor do I think that type-casting based on how someone delivers their humour should be the basis of deciding what someones beliefs are. Not least when there really is only moderations of middle nowadays??

If he can legally save money -then good luck. I would prefe to focus on the lazy , money scrounging oafs out there that drain the health resources through obesity , ill health and keeping hte police force busy.

Blimey - I didnt realise how right wing I was :lol:

Good that it provokes argument - still dont see the hypocracy from isolating some specific comedic work. Perhaps I need to read it in more detail. But the missus is home and she needs to get the dinner on...................oops - I do!!

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by bluenosey » 20 Jun 2012, 20:07

padmole wrote:I must be right wing then - but an unsensitive one as having seen him live a couple of times I didnt pick up on bigoted left wing views through his humour nor do I think that type-casting based on how someone delivers their humour should be the basis of deciding what someones beliefs are. Not least when there really is only moderations of middle nowadays??

If he can legally save money -then good luck. I would prefe to focus on the lazy , money scrounging oafs out there that drain the health resources through obesity , ill health and keeping hte police force busy.

Blimey - I didnt realise how right wing I was :lol:

Good that it provokes argument - still dont see the hypocracy from isolating some specific comedic work. Perhaps I need to read it in more detail. But the missus is home and she needs to get the dinner on...................oops - I do!!
...but less than 1% tax ? That's just too low IMO. PS I do agree with some of your other sentiments :wink:

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by snout » 20 Jun 2012, 20:39

Jimmy Carr proves himself funny for the first time. Now that is news! 8-)

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by golden bear » 20 Jun 2012, 21:17

His mother was a nurse in the NHS as well.

Greedy bustard.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by DrBunker » 20 Jun 2012, 22:58

Raisin wrote:I wonder which is less acceptable - governmental inactivity (or worse) that leaves these tax avoidance loopholes available - or the people who exploit them?

Put it another way. If you were rich and your accountant said 'You can pay normal tax or I can make alternative arrangements which are perfectly legal and leave you with much more of your income' what would you say? Be honest now.
I was having exactly the same conversation earlier. It's not morally right but a) it's legal b) it's what each and every one of us would do if we were lucky enough to be able to afford the advice and had enough money to need to do it.

Also, £168m in tax avoidance? Better close that down - that'll save the economy overnight! :roll:

This smacks of a cheap attempt by the government to sound like they are actually set on scraping these schemes when in reality they know that the loopholes were put in place for a reason and this is picking on an easy target who, if threatened, will not take his entire income overseas.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by mikeg13 » 20 Jun 2012, 23:09

DrBunker wrote:
Raisin wrote:I wonder which is less acceptable - governmental inactivity (or worse) that leaves these tax avoidance loopholes available - or the people who exploit them?

Put it another way. If you were rich and your accountant said 'You can pay normal tax or I can make alternative arrangements which are perfectly legal and leave you with much more of your income' what would you say? Be honest now.
I was having exactly the same conversation earlier. It's not morally right but a) it's legal b) it's what each and every one of us would do if we were lucky enough to be able to afford the advice and had enough money to need to do it.

Also, £168m in tax avoidance? Better close that down - that'll save the economy overnight! :roll:

This smacks of a cheap attempt by the government to sound like they are actually set on scraping these schemes when in reality they know that the loopholes were put in place for a reason and this is picking on an easy target who, if threatened, will not take his entire income overseas.
Would be shocked if figure was that tiny, was a time (long time ago not an interest these days :D ) when tax avoidance was an interest for me, never felt comfortable with it and have said on here before, was amused that my accountant at time, who was very proud of his Socialist beliefs, was very adapt at finding every loop hole going.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Latic » 20 Jun 2012, 23:10

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by foxinthebox2001 » 21 Jun 2012, 09:52

bluenosey wrote:
padmole wrote:Did I miss something and had Jimmy Carr professed to be left wing???
So he is right wing then - at least that figures.
I believe the correct description is a champagne socialist.

wiki - Champagne socialist is a pejorative political term originating in the United Kingdom. The phrase is used to describe self-identified socialists whose comfortable upper middle class lifestyles are perceived to be incompatible with their professed political convictions.
Although not the originator, Tony Blair is a masterclass in it.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by murf » 21 Jun 2012, 09:58

Jimmy Carr has bottled it, like at the Jubilee gig and taken the safe route:

"I appreciate as a comedian, people will expect me to 'make light' of this situation, but I'm not going to in this statement.

"As this is obviously a serious matter. I met with a financial advisor and he said to me 'Do you want to pay less tax? It's totally legal'. I said 'Yes'."

"I now realise I've made a terrible error of judgement.

"Although I've been advised the K2 Tax scheme is entirely legal, and has been fully disclosed to HMRC (Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs).

"I'm no longer involved in it and will in future conduct my financial affairs much more responsibly. Apologies to everyone. Jimmy Carr."

[done by twitter apparently but that seems like more than 140 characters]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18531008" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by foxinthebox2001 » 21 Jun 2012, 10:07

Big leap from "paying less tax", to paying virtually no tax.
The last thing he needs is something like this to hit his dvd sales.
He does have his £8.5m (paid cash) home to maintain.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by DrBunker » 21 Jun 2012, 10:11

Would it really affect his sales? It's like when people say I'll never buy anything from XXX company again after a bad experience but of course they do.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by foxinthebox2001 » 21 Jun 2012, 10:37

DrBunker wrote:Would it really affect his sales? It's like when people say I'll never buy anything from XXX company again after a bad experience but of course they do.
Its not difficult to see the similarities with Angus Deayton's fall from grace.
Ok, a few argue David Camerons wealth through an offshore inheritance weakens his attack, but Carr is a different ball game.
Like Deayton he is well known for using satire to knock people in the public eye and their indiscretions.
I remember well the HIGNFY show when Deayton thought it was business as usual after his prostitutes and cocaine story came out.
He was ridiculed by Paul Merton and Ian Hislop so much he knew then the game was up.
The test is when Carr records his next tv show with fellow comic satirists, and what sort of ride he will get from them.
He is in a no win situation, does he sit there and take it like a muppet, as Deayton tried and see his credibilty, or whats left of it go up in flames?
Or make light of it?, exactly what he said he would not do.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by DrBunker » 21 Jun 2012, 11:39

The reason I'm not fussed, as an example, is threefold:

a) I liked him before this so unlike those who didn't for whom this perfectly fits with their image of him I have no existing agenda
b) we're kidding ourselves if the people we do like aren't up to the same thing, see: Take That, Clarkson etc.
c) I'm pretty sure I'd do the same thing if I was in his position.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Jonathan » 21 Jun 2012, 11:46

DrBunker wrote:The reason I'm not fussed, as an example, is threefold:

a) I liked him before this so unlike those who didn't for whom this perfectly fits with their image of him I have no existing agenda
b) we're kidding ourselves if the people we do like aren't up to the same thing, see: Take That, Clarkson etc.
c) I'm pretty sure I'd do the same thing if I was in his position.
Nothing more to say as far as I am concerned.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Tricky Tree » 21 Jun 2012, 12:02

I agree, no news story.

no real fan of him and no real dislike but "rich man using clever accountants to pay less tax" - is this a story?

Get real

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by murf » 21 Jun 2012, 12:05

The 'story' shold be "how hard are the government trying to crack down on tax loopholes, like Jimmy Carr's, and how succesful will they be?"

If this Jimmy Carr non-story helps speed up the crackdown process then great.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Tricky Tree » 21 Jun 2012, 12:08

The government are constantly removing loopholes and Tax Schemes are closed. the clever people who are cleverer than the Governments clever people than find another loophole that gets approved. The government then spends time and introduces legislation to close said loop hole.

Around and around we go and have done for many years and will do for many more

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by golden bear » 21 Jun 2012, 12:11

What do you suggest then? We all pay no tax and it's every man (woman and child) for himself?

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by blahblah » 21 Jun 2012, 12:14

Tricky Tree wrote:I agree, no news story.

no real fan of him and no real dislike but "rich man using clever accountants to pay less tax" - is this a story?

Get real
I think the real story has yet to break, which is Osbourne and Cameron's mates doing the same thing, which he says is "morally reprehensible", or similar.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by foxinthebox2001 » 21 Jun 2012, 12:17

Quite surprised that anyone who has seen his sketch about Barclays 1% tax plan wearing a blonde wig can't see the story here.
As a basic rate tax payer I among millions contribute to public sector expenditure.
That includes paying nurses, police, fire fighters, teachers and so on.
I would normally expect someone in Jimmy Carrs earnings bracket to contribute considerably more than I, but life is full of surprises.
He is the 'big name', and had the most investment in the sceme, but now the spotlight will be turned on the city men involved, so now it will be on page 9 or the business section.
Does The Sun have a business section?

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Tricky Tree » 21 Jun 2012, 12:18

golden bear wrote:What do you suggest then? We all pay no tax and it's every man (woman and child) for himself?
Where did I even remotely suggest this :roll:

I suggest that loopholes continue to be closed, clever people will find more, these will get closed etc etc etc

Would you pay less tax if given the opportunity to do so legally?

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by foxinthebox2001 » 21 Jun 2012, 12:19

Tricky Tree wrote:The government are constantly removing loopholes and Tax Schemes are closed. the clever people who are cleverer than the Governments clever people than find another loophole that gets approved. The government then spends time and introduces legislation to close said loop hole.

Around and around we go and have done for many years and will do for many more
According to some, stopping these loopholes is like playing whack-a-mole.

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Re: Who is the Famous Tax Dodger ?

Post by Tricky Tree » 21 Jun 2012, 12:21

I would assume so (but slower)

This is because those not on the side of the HMRC are brighter

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