View Latest: 1 Day | FISO Injury Search

General Election called

A forum for general discussion on News & Politics issues and topics
Post Reply
User avatar
bluenosey
Dumblenose
Posts: 12521
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
Location: Solihull
FS Record: Considerably poorer than yow :-(

Re: General Election called

Post by bluenosey » 10 Jun 2017, 15:18

Tacalabala wrote:
bluenosey wrote:
murf wrote:JC DID back down on the principles.

Quietly and successfully Corbyn and the Parliamentary Labour Party put their differences behind them and came up with a compromise manifesto they could all support. For each 'side' there was compromise and going back on principles but they somehow kept their grumbles quiet and 'sang off the same hymn sheet' for the required time and it worked. Diane Abbot becoming 'ill' was a masterstroke!!! Well played Labour. Not sure how it would have hung together if they'd won!!!
Let's face it Murf, it was all managed very well by Labour. Abbott was the only spanner in works and I think she's got to go, but her constituents do like her.

There is a part of me that would love to see a Gov't run by Labour. My job is in jeopardy at the moment as all of tax is moving on-line, something called Making Tax Digital. I'm OK for now but could become a beached whale by the time I'm 50 (not in weight though :wink: ) Labour coming in would freshen everything up and I know that they would tinker with everything so that would only be good news for me.
Automation, I'm seeing this creeping in where I am, I think it will decimate the finance sector and finance jobs, if you are a business you simply must do this because the cost-benefit is overwhelming. No point in being sad about, it's just our generations horse-drawn carriage isn't it?

It is refreshing to see that there are sensible people in the Conservative party and they can see where they have totally ballsed this up. I don't even disagree that they are trying to tackle problems, but their method is plain wrong:

NHS spending - they just need to commit to increase per head every year. I would go further and propose that the NHS is 'spun off' into a public company much like the BBC, and leave medical profession to spearhead it. Hell, why not have the head of the NHS as an elected position, sans political interference? And here's a suggestion - ban private healthcare?

Triple lock pensions is unsustainable, double lock long term has to come in otherwise you are going to hit a point where the young greatly suffer.

Means test winter fuel payments - I don't think you can do this, there is warped sense of fairness in penalising people who did well in their life by making them pay more in later years to not die of the cold.

Social care - I think there needs to be a consensus built across all the parties about what to do, it's in our shared interest to get this right.

Scrap free school lunches - nonsense, every child should be treated equally in state schools.

School spending - like the NHS, commit to increase per head every year, and spin off. End academies programme, again ban private education?

BREXIT - Suspend the process for 6 months, and would bring in a cross party negotiating team (Con, Lab, LD and SNP) with mandate to explore all possible options in discussions with Europe, including what the EU could offer in return for staying, or a 'Norway/Swiss' deal. Leaving without a deal must be rejected as an option.
Yeah, automation is a massive worry. When I started there were loads of staff at hundreds of HMRC offices in town and city had several different branches (Birmingham 1-10, Walsall 1-3 for instance). You picked up the 'phone and spoke to someone about your client. Now so many jobs have gone over the last 25 years HMRC is a joke. It's so difficult getting something complicated sorted because there's a skeleton telephone team with little technical knowledge and that's it ! It is so frustrating. And now it's going full circle now with the accountancy profession. I'm going 100% luddite, fast :?

Lot's of sensible points above.

The difference between double and triple lock is such small beans. I think some pensioners, sometimes, can be a bit selfish. I'm never supposed to bite but I had a see a client a few weeks back moaning about all of her pensions. She was in higher rate. Just gone back to work, taxed at 40%. Always moaning about her tax. She was moaning that much that I had to say, look, you're doing OK :twisted: . I've got a pension. My fund has got got 5K in it. It will give me £11 a month when I retire and my retirement age is being pushed back so stop effing moaning (I din't say that BTW :wink: ) But that's what it's like. There was a silence and I thought I had got my point over but she then proceeded to moan about how hard done by she was and said she was getting no interest on her cash. 600K just sitting in a current account :shock: :shock: . Well, I had to count to ten - sympathise :shock: :? - and take a swig of tea. I see this a lot. Of course not all OAPs are like that. Some are absolutely lovely. But I do see the difference in the generations.

NHS - I think we need to ringfence an amount. We need money ploughed in but not wasted on "pen pushers" Also I would keep private healthcare. That reduces the strain on the NHS.

Re fuel payments, you can means test. Continue to pay the fuel payment to everyone BUT either place a restriction in their tax code if a PAYE pensioner or tick a box on self assessment return. This is what happens for those with child benefit payments where someone earns over 50K. It's clawed back. It can be done and I think winter fuel should be stopped for all higher rate taxpayers. That seems sensible.

Brexit - I'm still in favour of but this is going to be tricky form one point - Freedom of movement. Whilst it's economical beneficial for an EU citizen to work in other country (as long as skilled), it's very worrying trying to keep track of who's going where from a terrorist angle. You don't know who you are letting in. This is the crux of the problem and also undercutting of wages. It's still so divisive so in a way, I would like to see Davis and Starmer working together for the best possible deal for the country.

Social Care - this won't go away now. It's a ticking time bomb, like pensions. Due to the uproar the Tories will probably drop this for the next election, which will get them back some more votes but alas, won't sort the problem :(

I think pretty much we all want whats best, it's how we do it.

User avatar
bluenosey
Dumblenose
Posts: 12521
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
Location: Solihull
FS Record: Considerably poorer than yow :-(

Re: General Election called

Post by bluenosey » 10 Jun 2017, 15:26

Zimmerman wrote:Bluenosey i think a reason for the blurring of party lines is possibly due to a lot of the demonising the tories have done.

It's almost now a case of workers v spongers.

Coupled with the fact the older generation believe that everything they have is down to them working hard, saving, not having credit cards.

"These bloody youngsters don't know they're born and expect it all handed to them" coupled with the benefits angle (and this idea Labour gives everybody free money).

We've been hoodwinked in to thinking we're all middle class without realising we're still plebs and the elite are cleaning up.
I've had this arguments with my parents. Buy a house in the early 70s for about 5K. Worth 200K today. So Dad if I buy a house today for 200K today, will it be worth 8 millon pounds in forty years time :?: Didn't think so. He grafted hard so deserves it but we won't see those massive rises again. That's where the boomers landed on their feet. Especially if they had more than one property.

I bet we would beg to differ on who is the elite :wink:

User avatar
murf
FISO Baron
Posts: 89672
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: Chasing an egg (see my WWW or FPL links)
FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
Contact:

Re: General Election called

Post by murf » 10 Jun 2017, 15:39

bluenosey wrote:Brexit - I'm still in favour of but this is going to be tricky form one point - Freedom of movement. Whilst it's economical beneficial for an EU citizen to work in other country (as long as skilled), it's very worrying trying to keep track of who's going where from a terrorist angle. You don't know who you are letting in.....
The irony(?) of this is that, now, if we do push for tight borders and restricted movement to prevent terrorism we could be prevented due to Northern Irish politics! The DUP want to keep the 'soft' border with southern Ireland and so May may have to concede that for her 'coalition' to work. :?

Personally I'd have ID cards for everyone and very tough border controls - but we would need a border control going into Northern Ireland from mainland GB after this!!

User avatar
Zimmerman
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 28893
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
Location: having a picnic at the Bear Mountain

Re: General Election called

Post by Zimmerman » 10 Jun 2017, 16:58

murf wrote:.


PS Banning private health care would triply screw up the NHS. Firstly the private folks would have to use up NHS resources. Secondly, a large part of private health care is just using NHS facilities and (over) paying for them so another income stream dries up. Thirdly a large number of NHS doctors work for private health care part time to boost their income. Take that away and many would move abroad. Public health care is just a way of making rich folks pay for a better version of what they already have - they still pay for the NHS through taxes and don't use it so the government is laughing, especially as the payments are all taxable perks. For about 10 years I paid a lot of tax for my private health care (as did my company) and I never once used it. The government loved me!! (I'm now back to being unwashed NHS fodder, just in time for getting older and falling apart!)
And what about the NHS paying for patients to go and see private doctors in private hospitals? How much do they pay for that?

How does it work with the doctors that do work for both?
Can they be working for the NHS, doing additional work for Private; then get to treat a patient for the NHS but billing the NHS for private fees? Seems a conflict of interests there (I know the doctor doesn't bill the NHS but the hospital/firm he works for does).

Would it be social care or NHS are having to also pay companys like the Priory to keep patients because there no absolve beds for mental health patients (because they all got closed down).

As for the argument about the doctors leaving to go abroad... isn't that the same argument used for us to keep the city banker types happy?

User avatar
murf
FISO Baron
Posts: 89672
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: Chasing an egg (see my WWW or FPL links)
FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
Contact:

Re: General Election called

Post by murf » 10 Jun 2017, 18:50

None of those arguments are the 'fault' of private health care! They could be said to be, in part, due to a poor NHS which, as said earlier, would be worse off without private health care.

And, as to your last point... yes and so what? It is a perfectly valid argument only disputed by idealist socialists with no concept of real life.

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 16327
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!

Re: General Election called

Post by forestfan » 10 Jun 2017, 19:16

Completely removing/banning competition makes any business inefficient and open to being held to ransom by suppliers, particularly in today's globalised economy.

User avatar
Tacalabala
FISO Knight
Posts: 18952
Joined: 07 Sep 2008, 01:03

Re: General Election called

Post by Tacalabala » 10 Jun 2017, 20:45

The NHS is the world's fifth biggest employer, so I don't think it would have the problems you might encounter elsehwhere - I doubt McDonald's has what you maligjt call pricing issues with suppliers for example.

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 16327
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!

Re: General Election called

Post by forestfan » 10 Jun 2017, 22:28

Game of Thrones viewers will be familiar with seeing an embattled female leader who turns to religious fundamentalists for support having just about run out of other allies...

User avatar
Stemania
FISO Knight
Posts: 19374
Joined: 27 Aug 2006, 11:54
Location: On the Iron Throne of xG, the seat of The Crown Prince of the Stat Perverts. Or if not, in the STC!
FS Record: Best: TFF 321st. FPL 1,302nd. FFS Career HoF 58th (Live peak 3rd). Somehow six consecutive FPL Top 10k's before losing all ability...

Re: General Election called

Post by Stemania » 10 Jun 2017, 23:24

14,000-sample post-vote poll:
Image

User avatar
scarletjim
Dumbledore
Posts: 6846
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32

Re: General Election called

Post by scarletjim » 10 Jun 2017, 23:24

bluenosey wrote:...
I think pretty much we all want whats best, it's how we do it.
Once again, awesome to read what looks like a genuinely objective look at the state of various affairs. Why can't people on Facebook express their views in such a cooperative manner and positive manner? It does seem to me that on social media, only one side is prepared to discuss anything objectively... :/

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 16327
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!

Re: General Election called

Post by forestfan » 10 Jun 2017, 23:27

scarletjim wrote:
bluenosey wrote:...
I think pretty much we all want whats best, it's how we do it.
Once again, awesome to read what looks like a genuinely objective look at the state of various affairs. Why can't people on Facebook express their views in such a cooperative manner and positive manner? It does seem to me that on social media, only one side is prepared to discuss anything objectively... :/
Which side is that? Left and right seem equally bad to me...

buu1333
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 2496
Joined: 16 Jul 2011, 18:51

Re: General Election called

Post by buu1333 » 10 Jun 2017, 23:33

scarletjim wrote:
bluenosey wrote:...
I think pretty much we all want whats best, it's how we do it.
Once again, awesome to read what looks like a genuinely objective look at the state of various affairs. Why can't people on Facebook express their views in such a cooperative manner and positive manner? It does seem to me that on social media, only one side is prepared to discuss anything objectively... :/
This is the most positive and grown up board I have ever seen. Fisoers never seem to get into arguments no matter what .

I don't go on Facebook but I can imagine it being like that. Negative and one sided or follow the crowd

User avatar
scarletjim
Dumbledore
Posts: 6846
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32

Re: General Election called

Post by scarletjim » 11 Jun 2017, 00:25

forestfan wrote:
scarletjim wrote:
bluenosey wrote:...
I think pretty much we all want whats best, it's how we do it.
Once again, awesome to read what looks like a genuinely objective look at the state of various affairs. Why can't people on Facebook express their views in such a cooperative manner and positive manner? It does seem to me that on social media, only one side is prepared to discuss anything objectively... :/
Which side is that? Left and right seem equally bad to me...
On my newsfeed, it's always Corbynettes attacking the Tories (with papers and TV being the opposite). But that could just be the demographic of the people on my friends list. The worst thing is, I'm always saying to them, stop telling me how bad the Tories are, tell me instead how great your party is, tell me what you would do better, give me something positive that I can consider to support you, but they never do, it's always just hate towards the enemy, never anything positive about what they believe in. :(

User avatar
scarletjim
Dumbledore
Posts: 6846
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32

Re: General Election called

Post by scarletjim » 11 Jun 2017, 00:26

buu1333 wrote: This is the most positive and grown up board I have ever seen. Fisoers never seem to get into arguments no matter what.
So you weren't here in the days of Groomyd then? :lol:

hancockjr
Grumpy Old Man
Posts: 4820
Joined: 17 Aug 2006, 21:24
FS Record: FPL: Not as good as it was, but still very respectable.
Contact:

Re: General Election called

Post by hancockjr » 11 Jun 2017, 09:17

scarletjim wrote:
buu1333 wrote: This is the most positive and grown up board I have ever seen. Fisoers never seem to get into arguments no matter what.
So you weren't here in the days of Groomyd then? :lol:
:D

User avatar
Zimmerman
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 28893
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
Location: having a picnic at the Bear Mountain

Re: General Election called

Post by Zimmerman » 11 Jun 2017, 09:48

scarletjim wrote:
bluenosey wrote:...
I think pretty much we all want whats best, it's how we do it.
Once again, awesome to read what looks like a genuinely objective look at the state of various affairs. Why can't people on Facebook express their views in such a cooperative manner and positive manner? It does seem to me that on social media, only one side is prepared to discuss anything objectively... :/
The problem is we all have a different idea of what is best.

Whether your in the EDL, a devout Catholic or a hippy living in a field in the middle of France.

User avatar
scarletjim
Dumbledore
Posts: 6846
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32

Re: General Election called

Post by scarletjim » 11 Jun 2017, 10:36

Zimmerman wrote:
scarletjim wrote:
bluenosey wrote:...
I think pretty much we all want whats best, it's how we do it.
Once again, awesome to read what looks like a genuinely objective look at the state of various affairs. Why can't people on Facebook express their views in such a cooperative manner and positive manner? It does seem to me that on social media, only one side is prepared to discuss anything objectively... :/
The problem is we all have a different idea of what is best.

Whether your in the EDL, a devout Catholic or a hippy living in a field in the middle of France.
And thank god people on FISO realise that. Of course you are absolutely right - we do have different ideas of what is best, and that's fine, people can have different views that are all equally valid. But social media doesn't recognise that - the vast majority of people seem to believe that their opinion is the only valid one, and anyone who doesn't agree is evil or an idiot. It's just so depressing scrolling through a newsfeed so full of that attitude. We'd all be so much better informed to vote if people were capable of seeing other people's point of view. I try to do that - I may or may not amend my opinion at the end of such a conversation, but I do try to see other people's points, and nearly always if you can have such a conversation, their opinions do at least make sense. On social media that's just not the case. I know at the moment everyone is celebrating the higher voter turn out, but I'm really not sure that's a good thing if so many of the voters are incapable of rational objective thought. I'd rather have fewer voters who had genuinely considered all options with an open mind than have more voters who are just guessing based on hearsay. (Not digging at either side here, there are huge numbers of people of that nature on both sides). :(

User avatar
bluenosey
Dumblenose
Posts: 12521
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
Location: Solihull
FS Record: Considerably poorer than yow :-(

Re: General Election called

Post by bluenosey » 11 Jun 2017, 10:38

scarletjim wrote:
bluenosey wrote:...
I think pretty much we all want whats best, it's how we do it.
Once again, awesome to read what looks like a genuinely objective look at the state of various affairs. Why can't people on Facebook express their views in such a cooperative manner and positive manner? It does seem to me that on social media, only one side is prepared to discuss anything objectively... :/
Social Media is all Labour

Mail/Sun/Telegraph/Times - all Conservative

The thing is not many people read papers anymore, so their influence has waned considerably. The Mail went overboard in the end but who really reads it ? I can still imagine people buy the sun but then again it does have its "Mirror" image.

Likewise with social media you'll get fake news, as we saw with Trump supporters, which can ratchet things up.

User avatar
bluenosey
Dumblenose
Posts: 12521
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
Location: Solihull
FS Record: Considerably poorer than yow :-(

Re: General Election called

Post by bluenosey » 11 Jun 2017, 10:44

scarletjim wrote:
forestfan wrote:
scarletjim wrote:
bluenosey wrote:...
I think pretty much we all want whats best, it's how we do it.
Once again, awesome to read what looks like a genuinely objective look at the state of various affairs. Why can't people on Facebook express their views in such a cooperative manner and positive manner? It does seem to me that on social media, only one side is prepared to discuss anything objectively... :/
Which side is that? Left and right seem equally bad to me...
On my newsfeed, it's always Corbynettes attacking the Tories (with papers and TV being the opposite). But that could just be the demographic of the people on my friends list. The worst thing is, I'm always saying to them, stop telling me how bad the Tories are, tell me instead how great your party is, tell me what you would do better, give me something positive that I can consider to support you, but they never do, it's always just hate towards the enemy, never anything positive about what they believe in. :(
This goes back to my chat in the office and the fact that Tony Blair is absolutely reviled by Corbyn fans. I was one of that demographic change that bought in Blair channelling the youth vote (read the cracking The Last Party - Britpop, Blair and the demise of English Rock). I think the twittersphere has turned him into Hitler :? Still, contested three general elections, won three :wink:

User avatar
bluenosey
Dumblenose
Posts: 12521
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:26
Location: Solihull
FS Record: Considerably poorer than yow :-(

Re: General Election called

Post by bluenosey » 11 Jun 2017, 10:46

As it stands :-
Image

User avatar
scarletjim
Dumbledore
Posts: 6846
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:32

Re: General Election called

Post by scarletjim » 11 Jun 2017, 10:47

bluenosey wrote:
scarletjim wrote:
bluenosey wrote:...
I think pretty much we all want whats best, it's how we do it.
Once again, awesome to read what looks like a genuinely objective look at the state of various affairs. Why can't people on Facebook express their views in such a cooperative manner and positive manner? It does seem to me that on social media, only one side is prepared to discuss anything objectively... :/
...
The thing is not many people read papers anymore, so their influence has waned considerably.
...
And I think this is crucial, and yet was overlooked by May's team during the campaign (incredibly). The old days of people saying that mass media manipulates the electorate are surely over now, with social media being far more important, and far less controlled (meaning that it can do and say all sorts of things way beyond what the papers or Sky News can...)

User avatar
murf
FISO Baron
Posts: 89672
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: Chasing an egg (see my WWW or FPL links)
FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
Contact:

Re: General Election called

Post by murf » 11 Jun 2017, 10:51

Looking at bluenosey's graphic.... where have the other 5 seats gone?

Labour and others gained 40 between them. The Tories and SNP lost 34 between them. I know UKIP lost 1 so where are the other 5?? Have the DUP and SF wiped the other parties off the NI map?? I guess so, as they are "+5". So no catholic representation in Westminster just as the protestant unionists get some 'power'?

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 16327
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!

Re: General Election called

Post by forestfan » 11 Jun 2017, 10:56

murf wrote:Looking at bluenosey's graphic.... where have the other 5 seats gone?

Labour and others gained 40 between them. The Tories and SNP lost 34 between them. I know UKIP lost 1 so where are the other 5?? Have the DUP and SF wiped the other parties off the NI map?? I guess so, as they are "+5". So no catholic representation in Westminster?
Yeah, the more moderate NI parties, UUP and SDLP were wiped out. There's one independent (unionist) Northern Irish MP who held on I think.

User avatar
murf
FISO Baron
Posts: 89672
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: Chasing an egg (see my WWW or FPL links)
FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
Contact:

Re: General Election called

Post by murf » 11 Jun 2017, 10:57

scarletjim wrote:
bluenosey wrote:
scarletjim wrote:
bluenosey wrote:...
I think pretty much we all want whats best, it's how we do it.
Once again, awesome to read what looks like a genuinely objective look at the state of various affairs. Why can't people on Facebook express their views in such a cooperative manner and positive manner? It does seem to me that on social media, only one side is prepared to discuss anything objectively... :/
...
The thing is not many people read papers anymore, so their influence has waned considerably.
...
And I think this is crucial, and yet was overlooked by May's team during the campaign (incredibly). The old days of people saying that mass media manipulates the electorate are surely over now, with social media being far more important, and far less controlled (meaning that it can do and say all sorts of things way beyond what the papers or Sky News can...)
I'm not sure I believe this (to a 'far more important' degree). What percentage of voters really use social media such that they read people's opinions? Possibly more than print media but include TV and it is much less. TV is very left wing overall (not the news and politics progs etc where the channels roughly try to be even handed) so must come into it.
Last edited by murf on 11 Jun 2017, 10:59, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
murf
FISO Baron
Posts: 89672
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:28
Location: Chasing an egg (see my WWW or FPL links)
FS Record: Once led TFF. Very briefly.
Contact:

Re: General Election called

Post by murf » 11 Jun 2017, 10:58

forestfan wrote:
murf wrote:Looking at bluenosey's graphic.... where have the other 5 seats gone?

Labour and others gained 40 between them. The Tories and SNP lost 34 between them. I know UKIP lost 1 so where are the other 5?? Have the DUP and SF wiped the other parties off the NI map?? I guess so, as they are "+5". So no catholic representation in Westminster?
Yeah, the more moderate NI parties, UUP and SDLP were wiped out. There's one independent (unionist) Northern Irish MP who held on I think.
A bit like 'us' - all becoming polarised into 2 parties who diverge from the centre.

User avatar
forestfan
FISO Knight
Posts: 16327
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:27
Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
FS Record: Joint 6th TFF Wooden Spoon!

Re: General Election called

Post by forestfan » 11 Jun 2017, 11:03

scarletjim wrote:
bluenosey wrote:
scarletjim wrote:
bluenosey wrote:...
I think pretty much we all want whats best, it's how we do it.
Once again, awesome to read what looks like a genuinely objective look at the state of various affairs. Why can't people on Facebook express their views in such a cooperative manner and positive manner? It does seem to me that on social media, only one side is prepared to discuss anything objectively... :/
...
The thing is not many people read papers anymore, so their influence has waned considerably.
...
And I think this is crucial, and yet was overlooked by May's team during the campaign (incredibly). The old days of people saying that mass media manipulates the electorate are surely over now, with social media being far more important, and far less controlled (meaning that it can do and say all sorts of things way beyond what the papers or Sky News can...)
Well, social media is dominated by the younger demographic who previously tended to display low turnout. The printed news media still probably gets a bigger reach among the older sector of the population, but that will obviously reduce as time goes on. The generation of complete non-internet users is now very small, most of them probably aged above 75 or 80 now, and the first generation who were completely brought up on social media will now be in their 30s.

User avatar
Zimmerman
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 28893
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
Location: having a picnic at the Bear Mountain

Re: General Election called

Post by Zimmerman » 11 Jun 2017, 16:00

Facebook is only 13 years old and presumably the god father of social media?


Seems to be a bit snobbery on here in terms of a) new voters b) young voters c) social media inspired voters

most elections have previously been based on voting who your dad votes for (probably still are). People voting based on the propaganda in their chosen paper. People voting based on class or the fact there were strikes 40 odd years ago.

For those wanting to seek it... we're probably as informed as we have EVER been. We have the ability to access more information than ever. Our politicians are as answerable and accountable than they have ever been.

User avatar
Maldini
Dumbledore
Posts: 6109
Joined: 07 Mar 2014, 18:32

General Election called

Post by Maldini » 11 Jun 2017, 16:06

The response to the election has been fascinating to see unfold. There is a palpable sense of dread at what's to come in the immediate future from May's coalition of chaos, but behind that there are shoots of optimism. It is clear there is a growing mood of disquiet and a desire for serious change growing no matter how much it tries to be dismissed.

It seems bizarre that the next generation that was sneered at and patronised for being lazy self-centred entitled brats for not voting are now being berated by the same people for being naive brainwashed self-centred brats for voting. The logic being that we only voted because we were lured by promises of free stuff and bribes from Santa Corbyn. This didn't seem to be problem in previous elections when the older generation were offered endless little give-aways by all parties. However from what I saw through this narrative seems weak. On social media free tuition fees was barely mentioned. What got young people out in large numbers was something different; a visceral rejection of old politics.

For most of this century, since 9/11 this country has been in thrall to an old politics of fear and nostalgia. It killed the cocky swagger of the 90's UK and replaced it with a cowering reactionary sepia tinted desire to return to a glorious past that never really existed. And who was stopping us reaching back to these glory days? The do-gooder PC brigade, the bureaucrats, the scroungers, the immigrants, the refugees, them, the scapegoats. Through the tabloid media the prevailing mainstream narrative has been to blame, hate, divide, restrict, privatise, deregulate, fear, worry, and suspect. It's been this old politics that has led us to this point in history through bloody wars and economic turmoil to our greatest crisis since the Second World War ended with the nation facing a deeply uncertain future.

It was this that got young people out voting. Someone offering a different path; one of hope and opportunity, that spoke of greater things to come rather than our best days being behind us. The result is that the cracks are starting to show in the old politics. UKIP are a spent political force, their old cheerleaders, Farage, Hopkins, Morgan, et al., are marginalised jokes. The Conservatives are weakened while facing the mess they created. The grip of the tabloid press looks like it's weakening as they are treated no more seriously by the next generation than a drunk ranting at a bus stop. They threw everything they had at destroying Corbyn and failed. But most heartening of all is that it's not just the next generation who are turning to this new politics. There's been a feeling positive expectation and pride these past 48 hours that anything is possible. It's something I don't think has been felt since 2012 after the buzz of the London Olympics. You could see it in the response to the terror attacks. The old narrative spoke of internment, angry retribution, and destruction of human rights and liberty, but the people were out there joining together to help, to heal, to join together as a community and not look back in anger. The enthusiasm generated by the campaign hasn't evaporated, but is bubbling below the surface waiting to break out and when this regressive alliance of Conservatives and DUP breaks down we will seize the opportunity and next time we will succeed. Don't believe it. Check today's poll from Survation, who predicted the actual result most closely. They show Labour now has a healthy 6% lead over the Conservatives.



I've nicked this from the comments section of The Guardian online. IMO, nail hit firmly on head and a lot more eloquent than I could ever be. :lol:
Last edited by Maldini on 11 Jun 2017, 16:06, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Zimmerman
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 28893
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
Location: having a picnic at the Bear Mountain

Re: General Election called

Post by Zimmerman » 11 Jun 2017, 16:08

scarletjim wrote:
forestfan wrote:
scarletjim wrote:
bluenosey wrote:...
I think pretty much we all want whats best, it's how we do it.
Once again, awesome to read what looks like a genuinely objective look at the state of various affairs. Why can't people on Facebook express their views in such a cooperative manner and positive manner? It does seem to me that on social media, only one side is prepared to discuss anything objectively... :/
Which side is that? Left and right seem equally bad to me...
On my newsfeed, it's always Corbynettes attacking the Tories (with papers and TV being the opposite). But that could just be the demographic of the people on my friends list. The worst thing is, I'm always saying to them, stop telling me how bad the Tories are, tell me instead how great your party is, tell me what you would do better, give me something positive that I can consider to support you, but they never do, it's always just hate towards the enemy, never anything positive about what they believe in. :(
Conversely, this had been one of my major gripes with the Tory campaign. It was almost entirely about "corbyn is smelly" rather than them promoting their positives.

To an extent a lot of what labour were fighting for was to undo the bad that the Torys had/are doing... so in a way, it's inevitable there was an element of them finger pointing?

Labour did tell us plenty about what they were going to do for for us (pretty much a wish list for every demographic there is).

I think because there was so much character assassination of Corby; to the point that their manifesto was ignored... labour supporters were merely trying to balance things up for those bogged down by the fact that Corbyn doesn't sing the national anthem or Abbott got some numbers wrong. The pro-Tories needed reminding of their failings.

Besides, isnt that how it always goes; the party in power are their to have their mistakes picked at (you can't make any mistakes if your not in power).

User avatar
Zimmerman
FISO Jedi Knight
Posts: 28893
Joined: 13 Oct 2005, 18:42
Location: having a picnic at the Bear Mountain

Re: General Election called

Post by Zimmerman » 11 Jun 2017, 16:14

bluenosey wrote:As it stands :-
Image
Looks like there is barely any red on the map.
Torys took 56 more seats but less than 800k more votes than labour.

View Latest: 1 Day View Your posts
Post Reply

Return to “News & Politics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: raoul and 2 guests