Running on the road

[Jonathan]

Hello

I know we have several running enthusiasts within FISO so I am after an answer to something that puzzles me.

I would say 75% of my driving is done through villages and country lanes, and one area in particular between two villages is popular with joggers and cyclists.

Why is it that several runners through the village run on the roads rather than the path? Note I say village, so the paths are not full of shoppers and other pedestrians and there is never an attempt to get off the road when traffic is approaching. This is both daytime and night, and there are street lamps around.

On another occasion on a fast, winding country lane where there is no pathway, on two different occasions on the same stretch of road I firstly had a lady jogger running towards me on my side of the road, and as I approached she started waving at me furiously to get over. What she couldn't see was two vehicles coming in the other direction so I couldn't move out. I slowed, which probably wasn't clear to her, but I couldn't move over - which I shouted to her out of the window as I passed. My fault?

A few weeks later, same stretch but on the other side of the road, I came round the inside of a fast 90 degree corner to be greeted by a jogger on my side of the road just at the start of the turn and I nearly wiped him out. I braked, shook my head, looked in my mirror to be confronted by the middle finger being shown by the jogger. My fault?

This week, same stretch, pitch black I am flashed by a car coming round the bend in the opposite direction, I wonder why, only to have to swerve round a jogger on my side of the road with the brightest, dazzling helmet torch in the world. Nearly had him too. My fault?

I just need to ask joggers.... Why?

[Dennisthemenace]

Take solace in the fact that in about 20 years the road runners will be on the path in their mobility scooters due to their fcked up knees.

I have an issue with this too. Not so much runners but cyclists who at the weekend suddenly think a windey, lane-like 'b' road is the place to play their little Tour De France racing game. There's normally a fair few in yellow jerseys who think they are the race leader and typically they ride two or three abreast whilst chatting about how fast their new lycra makes them go.

Can't these people just go to an indoor track somewhere? I don't mind cylists per-say but racing two or three abreast on shitty b-roads is asking for trouble IMO

[Rob]

Personally, I only run on the road when there's no path. When I do, I run towards vehicles as that's what you're supposed to do when walking. If there's vehicles coming in both directions then I'd step onto the grass verge, if possible, but would also hope that the driver would slow down and stop if necessary.

Studies show that runners are no more susceptible to knee issues than others.

[hancockjr]

What are the paths like? Where I live they are often broken up and have branches/shrubs etc growing across parts of them. Other than that no idea.

If I'm running on a road (as there either is no path or no suitable path) I would run such that the traffic is coming towards me, as I want to see it coming. I think cars should slow down to overtake if they need to, they would for bikes and who says the road is just for users with wheels?

Just checked Wikipedia:

Under British law, regardless of whether there is a footpath, pedestrians have the right to use most public roads, excluding motorways and some toll tunnels and bridges such as the Blackwall Tunnel and the Dartford Crossing. It is usually advised that pedestrians should walk in the opposite direction to oncoming traffic on a road with no footpath.

(though also...However sharing roads with fast-moving traffic is highly dangerous.)

[Jonathan]

Paths are perfectly fine - in fact some recently resurfaced. It's that they don't get on the path when I approach. I don't get that. Country lane running to me is an accident waiting to happen and whether there is a legal right or not, common sense should see runners steer clear.

Bright, dazzling lights on helmets or headbands just make it worse. At 60mph on sharp corners they just confuse the driver.

[hancockjr]

Sounds to me like you are unable to stop within your field of vision:

A few weeks later, same stretch but on the other side of the road, I came round the inside of a fast 90 degree corner to be greeted by a jogger on my side of the road just at the start of the turn and I nearly wiped him out. I braked, shook my head, looked in my mirror to be confronted by the middle finger being shown by the jogger. My fault?

[unc.si.]

'Fast 90 degree corner'??

[Surprised]

'Fast 90 degree corner'??

Aren't they called T-Junctions?

[Jonathan]

'Fast 90 degree corner'??

Hmm maybe an exaggeration on the degrees but it's a blind corner, as many country lanes are. It's a 60mph road - should I take the corner even at 40mph - which would have been my approx speed - in case of joggers on that particular bend I either hit them or put myself on the other side of the road to avoid them before I ever know they are there.

[unc.si.]

On another occasion on a fast, winding country lane where there is no pathway, on two different occasions on the same stretch of road I firstly had a lady jogger running towards me on my side of the road, and as I approached she started waving at me furiously to get over. What she couldn't see was two vehicles coming in the other direction so I couldn't move out. I slowed, which probably wasn't clear to her, but I couldn't move over - which I shouted to her out of the window as I passed. My fault?

This is a wind up, right??

Of course she should have leapt into the ditch or thrown herself into a hedge to avoid you having to slow down...

What do you do on country lanes when you meet a car on a bit that's not wide enough to pass, or when you come across a sheep in the road, or a tractor that's going slower than you, or you meet a milk tanker?

[Jonathan]

On another occasion on a fast, winding country lane where there is no pathway, on two different occasions on the same stretch of road I firstly had a lady jogger running towards me on my side of the road, and as I approached she started waving at me furiously to get over. What she couldn't see was two vehicles coming in the other direction so I couldn't move out. I slowed, which probably wasn't clear to her, but I couldn't move over - which I shouted to her out of the window as I passed. My fault?

This is a wind up, right??

Of course she should have leapt into the ditch or thrown herself into a hedge to avoid you having to slow down...

What do you do on country lanes when you meet a car on a bit that's not wide enough to pass, or when you come across a sheep in the road, or a tractor that's going slower than you, or you meet a milk tanker?

Not a wind up. Did I suggest she should throw herself in the ditch? It was the fact from a good distance away she manically started waving me to give her a wide birth. I was already slowing down as I said - please read what I say. What was I supposed to do? As she suggested - drive into oncoming traffic? I slowed to around 10mph in good time. Slow enough to make my feelings known about her arm actions. My issue was her manic waving at me because I wasn't moving over.

[sted]

Must say I've never come close to hitting a cyclist, jogger or horse rider...and there's more than a fair share of windy country roads over here. I go around bends in the anticipation that there may be something on the other side...often a tractor.

I still get annoyed at the cyclists riding 3 abreast though.

[murf]

I hate routes than involve running on roads and always stick to paths (or preferably parks etc in daylight/dry season) so I don't get the folks mentioned here.

But then again I run with my dog so I worry about protecting her - my usual route allows me to stay on the left hand side of the road too so she is further away from any traffic (she runs on my left).

Many runners I know will run on country lanes when they have to but would avoid any busier roads as you are risking too much.

Can't see why anyone would choose road over footpath unless the footpath was uneven (and they often are).

[Jonathan]

Sheep, narrow lanes, tractors - I handle them perfectly well and sensibly, thanks. If the road is narrow enough for only one car, I won't be doing 50mph anyway, although the road in question is a bus route and handles huge gravel pit lorries daily. Tractors are plenty big enough to see and are travelling a fair bit quicker than a runner, and I am yet to come across a sheep in the road.

I spotted this jogger from a long way off as it was a straight stretch of road. I approached her carefully and properly, she just didn't twig that. The male runner on the inside of the bend who I shook my head at should count himself lucky I always take that corner carefully because dick head drivers cut the bend - any faster I would have hit him. And still he gave me the finger

[unc.si.]

On another occasion on a fast, winding country lane where there is no pathway, on two different occasions on the same stretch of road I firstly had a lady jogger running towards me on my side of the road, and as I approached she started waving at me furiously to get over. What she couldn't see was two vehicles coming in the other direction so I couldn't move out. I slowed, which probably wasn't clear to her, but I couldn't move over - which I shouted to her out of the window as I passed. My fault?

This is a wind up, right??

Of course she should have leapt into the ditch or thrown herself into a hedge to avoid you having to slow down...

What do you do on country lanes when you meet a car on a bit that's not wide enough to pass, or when you come across a sheep in the road, or a tractor that's going slower than you, or you meet a milk tanker?

Not a wind up. Did I suggest she should throw herself in the ditch? It was the fact from a good distance away she manically started waving me to give her a wide birth. I was already slowing down as I said - please read what I say. What was I supposed to do? As she suggested - drive into oncoming traffic? I slowed to around 10mph in good time. Slow enough to make my feelings known about her arm actions. My issue was her manic waving at me because I wasn't moving over.

so if it was all perfectly safe and controlled, what's your issue? Just that she suggested you should move over??

Just smile and wave. Life's too short.

[Jonathan]

Must say I've never come close to hitting a cyclist, jogger or horse rider...and there's more than a fair share of windy country roads over here. I go around bends in the anticipation that there may be something on the other side...often a tractor.

I still get annoyed at the cyclists riding 3 abreast though.

I'm not saying I don't drive in anticipation of them, sted, because I do. Driving at 40 in the dark on these roads is 20mph below the limit and still not slow enough for some tailgaters. Even at that speed you are on them with fractions of seconds to react on certain bends. You look for yellow vests, lights at bike level etc etc, but these crazy flashing high beam LEDs on helmets just blow my mind.

There seems to be little realistion that these modern lights for runners and cyclists are as powerful as car full beams and they think pointing them straight at you makes you see them, which of course you do, but at the expense of anything else.

[Jonathan]

On another occasion on a fast, winding country lane where there is no pathway, on two different occasions on the same stretch of road I firstly had a lady jogger running towards me on my side of the road, and as I approached she started waving at me furiously to get over. What she couldn't see was two vehicles coming in the other direction so I couldn't move out. I slowed, which probably wasn't clear to her, but I couldn't move over - which I shouted to her out of the window as I passed. My fault?

This is a wind up, right??

Of course she should have leapt into the ditch or thrown herself into a hedge to avoid you having to slow down...

What do you do on country lanes when you meet a car on a bit that's not wide enough to pass, or when you come across a sheep in the road, or a tractor that's going slower than you, or you meet a milk tanker?

Not a wind up. Did I suggest she should throw herself in the ditch? It was the fact from a good distance away she manically started waving me to give her a wide birth. I was already slowing down as I said - please read what I say. What was I supposed to do? As she suggested - drive into oncoming traffic? I slowed to around 10mph in good time. Slow enough to make my feelings known about her arm actions. My issue was her manic waving at me because I wasn't moving over.

so if it was all perfectly safe and controlled, what's your issue? Just that she suggested you should move over??

Just smile and wave. Life's too short.

She was just another point I was making. She annoyed me because I *was* slowing down. My frustration came from the man who flicked the finger and the dibbo this week with a lighthouse strapped to his head and those who run on the road when extremely good paths are available. I wanted the opinion of runners.

[unc.si.]

Sheep, narrow lanes, tractors - I handle them perfectly well and sensibly, thanks. If the road is narrow enough for only one car, I won't be doing 50mph anyway, although the road in question is a bus route and handles huge gravel pit lorries daily. Tractors are plenty big enough to see and are travelling a fair bit quicker than a runner, and I am yet to come across a sheep in the road.

I spotted this jogger from a long way off as it was a straight stretch of road. I approached her carefully and properly, she just didn't twig that. The male runner on the inside of the bend who I shook my head at should count himself lucky I always take that corner carefully because dick head drivers cut the bend - any faster I would have hit him. And still he gave me the finger

I'm glad you handle all those sheep that you never come across so well

I am yet to come across a sheep.

You're not from Derby then??

[unc.si.]

those who run on the road when extremely good paths are available. I wanted the opinion of runners.

Asphalt's better for your knees than concrete.

Mind you, concrete's better for your general wellbeing than being hit by 1 tonne of metal, so it's swings and roundabouts really...

[Jonathan]

Not from Derby no, and most of the paths on my route are Tarmac....

[barry]

the road I travel daily is used on all lands end to John o'groats rides. There is a windy section where the road is sandwiched between the river and a hillside and dread meeting bikes 2/3 a breast as I come round any of the corners BUT
it's my responsibility as a driver to be ready to react to anything on the road, and to drive accordingly.... whether it be a car crash, fallen rocks, herd of deer, bikes 3 a breast or joggers.

[unc.si.]

I still get annoyed at the cyclists riding 3 abreast though.

Have to say that annoys me as well. I've made my excuses and ridden a different route several times when I've been out with a group that just rides in a big sprawling bunch.

Sad to say that there's more and more cyclists these days that have taken it up recently and have the same sense of 'fk everyone else on the road' that you see from a lot of drivers.

[Jonathan]

I agree Barry it is our responsibility to drive accordingly, as it is for others not to put themselves at risk. There have been some awful collisions on roads with horses, runners and cyclists, but why put yourself at risk as joggers, which is the point of my OP.

[unc.si.]

Not from Derby no, and most of the paths on my route are Tarmac....

Well obviously I've not done a detailed survey of pavement substrata on your commute, but that's the general reason given.

The Derby bit was a joke - you're obviously not from Nottingham either...

[unc.si.]

the road I travel daily is used on all lands end to John o'groats rides. There is a windy section where the road is sandwiched between the river and a hillside and dread meeting bikes 2/3 a breast as I come round any of the corners BUT
it's my responsibility as a driver to be ready to react to anything on the road, and to drive accordingly.... whether it be a car crash, fallen rocks, herd of deer, bikes 3 a breast or joggers.

There speaks a man who's actually from the countryside, rather than someone who just drives through it.

(says a man who lives in a city, although I did grow up in Shropshire in the middle of nowhere, so I'm not a fully fledged city slicker just yet)

[unc.si.]

Paths are perfectly fine - in fact some recently resurfaced. It's that they don't get on the path when I approach. I don't get that. Country lane running to me is an accident waiting to happen and whether there is a legal right or not, common sense should see runners steer clear.

Bright, dazzling lights on helmets or headbands just make it worse. At 60mph on sharp corners they just confuse the driver.

Just being serious for a second, joggers are probably not at as much risk as you think. I used to run around country lanes when I was younger and had knees not battered by 20 years of playing rugby (some people actually live in the countryside that you drive through and don't have a lot of choice). You can see car lights coming from a long way off, even round bends and as long as you're running towards the traffic you can jump out of the way of pretty much anything if you have to.

I'd say the drivers perception of how much danger the jogger is in is actually way way higher than the reality.

[barry]

I agree Barry it is our responsibility to drive accordingly, as it is for others not to put themselves at risk. There have been some awful collisions on roads with horses, runners and cyclists, but why put yourself at risk as joggers, which is the point of my OP.

can't answer that, not being a jogger...... cue fat jokes......

[unc.si.]

Paths are perfectly fine - in fact some recently resurfaced. It's that they don't get on the path when I approach. I don't get that. Country lane running to me is an accident waiting to happen and whether there is a legal right or not, common sense should see runners steer clear.

Bright, dazzling lights on helmets or headbands just make it worse. At 60mph on sharp corners they just confuse the driver.

Just being serious for a second, joggers are probably not at as much risk as you think. I used to run around country lanes when I was younger and had knees not battered by 20 years of playing rugby (some people actually live in the countryside that you drive through and don't have a lot of choice). You can see car lights coming from a long way off, even round bends and as long as you're running towards the traffic you can jump out of the way of pretty much anything if you have to.

I'd say the drivers perception of how much danger the jogger is in is actually way way higher than the reality.

oh ps - '60mph sharp corners', 'fast 90 degree bends' , 'fast windy country lanes' You're not Hannu Mikkola are you??

[Jonathan]

Paths are perfectly fine - in fact some recently resurfaced. It's that they don't get on the path when I approach. I don't get that. Country lane running to me is an accident waiting to happen and whether there is a legal right or not, common sense should see runners steer clear.

Bright, dazzling lights on helmets or headbands just make it worse. At 60mph on sharp corners they just confuse the driver.

Just being serious for a second, joggers are probably not at as much risk as you think. I used to run around country lanes when I was younger and had knees not battered by 20 years of playing rugby (some people actually live in the countryside that you drive through and don't have a lot of choice). You can see car lights coming from a long way off, even round bends and as long as you're running towards the traffic you can jump out of the way of pretty much anything if you have to.

I'd say the drivers perception of how much danger the jogger is in is actually way way higher than the reality.

oh ps - '60mph sharp corners', 'fast 90 degree bends' , 'fast windy country lanes' You're not Hannu Mikkola are you??

Bit hard to be in a Citroen C3 Picasso. Country roads are known to be the most dangerous for those very descriptions though. I sometimes shudder at the speeds people pass me at. I was exaggerating slightly on the 90 degree bend but it does feel like that at 60 with your eyes shut...

[murf]

ps - '60mph sharp corners', 'fast 90 degree bends' , 'fast windy country lanes' You're not Hannu Mikkola are you??

He doesn't have the wonderful dexterity.