surely lennon wil get kc for defoe goal?thelip wrote:Bramernic's view on the KC's (taken from his site)
http://www.bramernic.co.uk/fsports/
Blackburn 1-3 Newcastle
Martins (Sibierski)
Taylor (N'Zogbia)
Pedersen (-)
Martins (-)
Bolton 4-0 West Ham
Davies (Speed, Diouf)
Davies (Speed, Campo)
Diouf (-)
Anelka (Speed)
Liverpool 4-0 Fulham
Gerrard (-) but 0 points as a missed penalty beforehand
Carragher (Gerrard, Agger)
Garcia (Agger)
Gonzales (-)
Man United 3-1 Man City
Rooney (Ronaldo)
Saha (Heinze)
Trabelsi (-)
Ronaldo (poss Rooney) although 2 defenders touched it, I'm not convinced either significantly altered it's destination
Middlesbrough 1-1 Wigan
Camara (-)
Yakubu (Viduka, Morrison)
Portsmouth 2-0 Everton
Taylor (-)
Kanu (O'Neil)
Tottenham 5-1 Charlton
Berbatov (Lennon)
Tainio (-)
Dawson og (Reid)
Malbranque (Tainio, Berbatov)
Defoe (-)
Berbatov (-)
Watford 0-0 Reading
Week 17 KCs and MotM Dec 5th 6th 9th 10th and 11th
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Re: Mom Rooney and KC
Don't forget Scholes in the running for MOTM - was magnificent again yesterday, at the centre of everything positive about United.Arabian Knight wrote:Are you kidding - Rooney was good, but not MOM, Ronaldo was superb. Thought Vidic and Ferdinand have more call on MOM than Rooney.svwhat wrote:Thought Rooney was MoM by a mile and thought he had 2 KC's - Will he get one for pressing to get ball off City defender and getting it to Heinze for the cross when saha scored?
No KC for Rooney for 2nd goal, only Heinze
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The pass wasn't that important, it didn't split the defence or play Defoe into a good position, it was a great finish to score from there.derbynige wrote:surely lennon wil get kc for defoe goal?
The Rooney one is interesting, I first thought definite KC but then I saw it was two deflections not just one and I changed my mind and now Bram thinks it might be so I haven’t got a clue. No doubt if he gets it there'll be cries of Rooney bias
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Re: Mom Rooney and KC
That was Scholes worst game for United for a while imo, he gave the ball away a couple of times in terrible areas and him and Carrick really got our manoeuvred by the City midfield, especially in the second half with Ireland, that's why we brought O'Shea on.scarletjim wrote: Don't forget Scholes in the running for MOTM - was magnificent again yesterday, at the centre of everything positive about United.
Man of the match should be Vidic or Ronaldo I think.
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Re: Mom Rooney and KC
Interesting that you're not just disagreeing with me, you're also disagreeing with the commentary team for the match, and most pundits who have spoken about it since... Oh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess.Neva wrote:That was Scholes worst game for United for a while imo, he gave the ball away a couple of times in terrible areas and him and Carrick really got our manoeuvred by the City midfield, especially in the second half with Ireland, that's why we brought O'Shea on.scarletjim wrote: Don't forget Scholes in the running for MOTM - was magnificent again yesterday, at the centre of everything positive about United.
Man of the match should be Vidic or Ronaldo I think.
Ronaldo MOTM for me by the way, but still wouldn't be surprised if Scholes got it.
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Re: Mom Rooney and KC
Spot on IMO, can't believe that people are saying Roo for MOTM, I would love it if he was, but I and many fans around me thought he was poor. There were many times when United were on the break and Rooney gave the ball straight to Dunne or Distin, when trying to play a through ball. He definitely had an impact on the game, but overall IMHO he was poorNeva wrote:Man of the match should be Vidic or Ronaldo I think.
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The SUNDAY Telegraph offers these Man/Match opinions on Saturday's games
(mixed case signifies variance to Sunday Times verdict above):
RONALDO (MU)
not stated? (Liv-Ful)
BERBATOV (Tot)
Kevin Davies (Bol)
MARTINS (New)
Marcus Hahnemann (Rdg)
SCHWARZER (Mid)
Sean Davis (Por)
And The Observer says:
Andreas Isaksson (MC)
Jamie Carragher (Liv)
Aaron Lennon (Tot)
Gary Speed (Bol)
MARTINS (New)
Hameur Bouazza (Wat)
Josip Skoko (Wig)
TAYLOR (Por)
(mixed case signifies variance to Sunday Times verdict above):
RONALDO (MU)
not stated? (Liv-Ful)
BERBATOV (Tot)
Kevin Davies (Bol)
MARTINS (New)
Marcus Hahnemann (Rdg)
SCHWARZER (Mid)
Sean Davis (Por)
And The Observer says:
Andreas Isaksson (MC)
Jamie Carragher (Liv)
Aaron Lennon (Tot)
Gary Speed (Bol)
MARTINS (New)
Hameur Bouazza (Wat)
Josip Skoko (Wig)
TAYLOR (Por)
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IsakssonSamD wrote:The SUNDAY Telegraph offers these Man/Match opinions on Saturday's games
(mixed case signifies variance to Sunday Times verdict above):
RONALDO (MU)
not stated? (Liv-Ful)
BERBATOV (Tot)
Kevin Davies (Bol)
MARTINS (New)
Marcus Hahnemann (Rdg)
SCHWARZER (Mid)
Sean Davis (Por)
And The Observer says:
Andreas Isaksson (MC)
Jamie Carragher (Liv)
Aaron Lennon (Tot)
Gary Speed (Bol)
MARTINS (New)
Hameur Bouazza (Wat)
Josip Skoko (Wig)
TAYLOR (Por)
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Agreed that it was a backwards pass outside the area but Lampards contribution was key and deliberate - but probably not in telegraph terms else Essien would not have had the chance for a wonder goal. Even Jose just mentioned Lampards part.amaidment wrote:No KC for Lampard IMO - it was a backwards pass way outside the box and a wonder strike from Essien.Burcop wrote:Flamini (Hleb)
Essien (Lampard)
Thought KC's looked clear cut but outside box ??
MOTM - Gilberto for me
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*THIS* is the Telegraph gameBurcop wrote:Agreed that it was a backwards pass outside the area but Lampards contribution was key and deliberate - but probably not in telegraph terms else Essien would not have had the chance for a wonder goal. Even Jose just mentioned Lampards part.amaidment wrote:No KC for Lampard IMO - it was a backwards pass way outside the box and a wonder strike from Essien.Burcop wrote:Flamini (Hleb)
Essien (Lampard)
Thought KC's looked clear cut but outside box ??
MOTM - Gilberto for me
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Could not understand why gerrard did not get KC two weeks ago for a kuyt goal, when he made a difference but telegraph deemed not, thus I feel that if it had not been for lampards pass essien would not have scored. it was discussed earlier that yesterday gerrard could get a kc after taking corner which agger headed on for carragher to score.anon1086 wrote:*THIS* is the Telegraph gameBurcop wrote:Agreed that it was a backwards pass outside the area but Lampards contribution was key and deliberate - but probably not in telegraph terms else Essien would not have had the chance for a wonder goal. Even Jose just mentioned Lampards part.amaidment wrote:No KC for Lampard IMO - it was a backwards pass way outside the box and a wonder strike from Essien.Burcop wrote:Flamini (Hleb)
Essien (Lampard)
Thought KC's looked clear cut but outside box ??
MOTM - Gilberto for me
What then constitutes a Key Contribution !!
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There's a lot of threads which tell you how a KC is awarded. AND you can check the T&C on the TFF site.Burcop wrote:
Could not understand why gerrard did not get KC two weeks ago for a kuyt goal, when he made a difference but telegraph deemed not, thus I feel that if it had not been for lampards pass essien would not have scored. it was discussed earlier that yesterday gerrard could get a kc after taking corner which agger headed on for carragher to score.
What then constitutes a Key Contribution !!
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the telegraph itself statesanon1086 wrote:There's a lot of threads which tell you how a KC is awarded. AND you can check the T&C on the TFF site.Burcop wrote:
Could not understand why gerrard did not get KC two weeks ago for a kuyt goal, when he made a difference but telegraph deemed not, thus I feel that if it had not been for lampards pass essien would not have scored. it was discussed earlier that yesterday gerrard could get a kc after taking corner which agger headed on for carragher to score.
What then constitutes a Key Contribution !!
Key Contribution (playing a significant part in setting up a goal)
so why doesnt lampards contribution qualify
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Burcop, you have to understand the difference between a key contribution leading to a goal in football, and a Key Contribution under the rules and case law of the Telegraph game. Telegraph KCs are not usually awarded for short passes away from the goal which do not take out defenders and which lead to a shot well outside the area.
Every week we have someone on this thread getting upset because they do not understand this difference.
Every week we have someone on this thread getting upset because they do not understand this difference.
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Experience tells us that for a KC to be awarded a pass usually has to take out at least one defender and the goal usually from within 20 yards. Lamps pass took out no one and the goal was from 30 yards, so a KC probably won't be awarded.Burcop wrote:the telegraph itself statesanon1086 wrote:There's a lot of threads which tell you how a KC is awarded. AND you can check the T&C on the TFF site.Burcop wrote:
Could not understand why gerrard did not get KC two weeks ago for a kuyt goal, when he made a difference but telegraph deemed not, thus I feel that if it had not been for lampards pass essien would not have scored. it was discussed earlier that yesterday gerrard could get a kc after taking corner which agger headed on for carragher to score.
What then constitutes a Key Contribution !!
Key Contribution (playing a significant part in setting up a goal)
so why doesnt lampards contribution qualify
We could have a debate about whether the way KCs are awarded is right, but there is no point. The telegraph are fairly consistent and it is the same for everyone, so you will just have to accept it, as we all do.
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thepole wrote:Experience tells us that for a KC to be awarded a pass usually has to take out at least one defender and the goal usually from within 20 yards. Lamps pass took out no one and the goal was from 30 yards, so a KC probably won't be awarded.Burcop wrote:the telegraph itself statesanon1086 wrote:There's a lot of threads which tell you how a KC is awarded. AND you can check the T&C on the TFF site.Burcop wrote:
Could not understand why gerrard did not get KC two weeks ago for a kuyt goal, when he made a difference but telegraph deemed not, thus I feel that if it had not been for lampards pass essien would not have scored. it was discussed earlier that yesterday gerrard could get a kc after taking corner which agger headed on for carragher to score.
What then constitutes a Key Contribution !!
Key Contribution (playing a significant part in setting up a goal)
so why doesnt lampards contribution qualify
We could have a debate about whether the way KCs are awarded is right, but there is no point. The telegraph are fairly consistent and it is the same for everyone, so you will just have to accept it, as we all do.
Which is why at the start of my first post I questioned whether the assist would stand
"Thought KC's looked clear cut but outside box ?? "
and commented in a subsequent post
"Lampards contribution was key and deliberate - but probably not in telegraph terms "
I do accept that its the telegraphs game and their call counts, but as Judio
states at the start of each new topic
Please post your opinions only having Seen the Goals.
Probably like most of the readers of this forum we have superleagues at work and monday morning is rife with conversation of kc's and mom's
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Cheers for that, appreciate your answerRaisin wrote:Burcop, you have to understand the difference between a key contribution leading to a goal in football, and a Key Contribution under the rules and case law of the Telegraph game. Telegraph KCs are not usually awarded for short passes away from the goal which do not take out defenders and which lead to a shot well outside the area.
Every week we have someone on this thread getting upset because they do not understand this difference.
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