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Week 17 KCs and MotM Dec 5th 6th 9th 10th and 11th

A Forum holding the historic Key Contributions (KCs) and Man of The Matches (MOTM) data from TFF from 2005 up to May 2007
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derbynige
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Post by derbynige »

thelip wrote:Bramernic's view on the KC's (taken from his site)

http://www.bramernic.co.uk/fsports/

Blackburn 1-3 Newcastle
Martins (Sibierski)
Taylor (N'Zogbia)
Pedersen (-)
Martins (-)

Bolton 4-0 West Ham
Davies (Speed, Diouf)
Davies (Speed, Campo)
Diouf (-)
Anelka (Speed)

Liverpool 4-0 Fulham
Gerrard (-) but 0 points as a missed penalty beforehand
Carragher (Gerrard, Agger)
Garcia (Agger)
Gonzales (-)

Man United 3-1 Man City
Rooney (Ronaldo)
Saha (Heinze)
Trabelsi (-)
Ronaldo (poss Rooney) although 2 defenders touched it, I'm not convinced either significantly altered it's destination

Middlesbrough 1-1 Wigan
Camara (-)
Yakubu (Viduka, Morrison)

Portsmouth 2-0 Everton
Taylor (-)
Kanu (O'Neil)

Tottenham 5-1 Charlton
Berbatov (Lennon)
Tainio (-)
Dawson og (Reid)
Malbranque (Tainio, Berbatov)
Defoe (-)
Berbatov (-)

Watford 0-0 Reading
surely lennon wil get kc for defoe goal?

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thelip
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Post by thelip »

derbynige wrote: surely lennon wil get kc for defoe goal?
Many have doubted Bramernic in the past but few have been able to say "I told you so". :wink:

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scarletjim
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Re: Mom Rooney and KC

Post by scarletjim »

Arabian Knight wrote:
svwhat wrote:Thought Rooney was MoM by a mile and thought he had 2 KC's - Will he get one for pressing to get ball off City defender and getting it to Heinze for the cross when saha scored?
Are you kidding - Rooney was good, but not MOM, Ronaldo was superb. Thought Vidic and Ferdinand have more call on MOM than Rooney.

No KC for Rooney for 2nd goal, only Heinze
Don't forget Scholes in the running for MOTM - was magnificent again yesterday, at the centre of everything positive about United.

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Post by Neva »

derbynige wrote:surely lennon wil get kc for defoe goal?
The pass wasn't that important, it didn't split the defence or play Defoe into a good position, it was a great finish to score from there.

The Rooney one is interesting, I first thought definite KC but then I saw it was two deflections not just one and I changed my mind and now Bram thinks it might be so I haven’t got a clue. No doubt if he gets it there'll be cries of Rooney bias :wink:

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Re: Mom Rooney and KC

Post by Neva »

scarletjim wrote: Don't forget Scholes in the running for MOTM - was magnificent again yesterday, at the centre of everything positive about United.
That was Scholes worst game for United for a while imo, he gave the ball away a couple of times in terrible areas and him and Carrick really got our manoeuvred by the City midfield, especially in the second half with Ireland, that's why we brought O'Shea on.

Man of the match should be Vidic or Ronaldo I think.

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scarletjim
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Re: Mom Rooney and KC

Post by scarletjim »

Neva wrote:
scarletjim wrote: Don't forget Scholes in the running for MOTM - was magnificent again yesterday, at the centre of everything positive about United.
That was Scholes worst game for United for a while imo, he gave the ball away a couple of times in terrible areas and him and Carrick really got our manoeuvred by the City midfield, especially in the second half with Ireland, that's why we brought O'Shea on.

Man of the match should be Vidic or Ronaldo I think.
Interesting that you're not just disagreeing with me, you're also disagreeing with the commentary team for the match, and most pundits who have spoken about it since... :wink: Oh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess.

Ronaldo MOTM for me by the way, but still wouldn't be surprised if Scholes got it.

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Judio
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Post by Judio »

The SUNDAY TIMES have been mainly predictable
with their awards today

RONALDO (Mun)
GERRARD (Liv)
BERBATOV (Tot)
DIOUF (Bol)
MARTINS (New)
FRANCIS (Wat)
SCHWARZER (Mid)
TAYLOR (Por)

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thepole
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Re: Mom Rooney and KC

Post by thepole »

Neva wrote:Man of the match should be Vidic or Ronaldo I think.
Spot on IMO, can't believe that people are saying Roo for MOTM, I would love it if he was, but I and many fans around me thought he was poor. There were many times when United were on the break and Rooney gave the ball straight to Dunne or Distin, when trying to play a through ball. He definitely had an impact on the game, but overall IMHO he was poor

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SamD
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Post by SamD »

The SUNDAY Telegraph offers these Man/Match opinions on Saturday's games
(mixed case signifies variance to Sunday Times verdict above):

RONALDO (MU)
not stated? (Liv-Ful)
BERBATOV (Tot)
Kevin Davies (Bol)
MARTINS (New)
Marcus Hahnemann (Rdg)
SCHWARZER (Mid)
Sean Davis (Por)

And The Observer says:

Andreas Isaksson (MC)
Jamie Carragher (Liv)
Aaron Lennon (Tot)
Gary Speed (Bol)
MARTINS (New)
Hameur Bouazza (Wat)
Josip Skoko (Wig)
TAYLOR (Por)

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chaser2k4
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Post by chaser2k4 »

SamD wrote:The SUNDAY Telegraph offers these Man/Match opinions on Saturday's games
(mixed case signifies variance to Sunday Times verdict above):

RONALDO (MU)
not stated? (Liv-Ful)
BERBATOV (Tot)
Kevin Davies (Bol)
MARTINS (New)
Marcus Hahnemann (Rdg)
SCHWARZER (Mid)
Sean Davis (Por)

And The Observer says:

Andreas Isaksson (MC)
Jamie Carragher (Liv)
Aaron Lennon (Tot)
Gary Speed (Bol)
MARTINS (New)
Hameur Bouazza (Wat)
Josip Skoko (Wig)
TAYLOR (Por)
Isaksson :shock:

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stevejtr
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Post by stevejtr »

must have been some 45 minutes...

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Vinegar Joe
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Post by Vinegar Joe »

chaser2k4 wrote: Isaksson :shock:
Yeah, was kinda shocked by that this morning. He made one or two good saves, that's it. Van Der Sar deserves the award on that basis.

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Burcop
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Post by Burcop »

Flamini (Hleb)
Essien (Lampard)

Thought KC's looked clear cut but outside box ??

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amaidment
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Post by amaidment »

Burcop wrote:Flamini (Hleb)
Essien (Lampard)

Thought KC's looked clear cut but outside box ??
No KC for Lampard IMO - it was a backwards pass way outside the box and a wonder strike from Essien.

MOTM - Gilberto for me

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crabby
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Post by crabby »

Nah Flamini or Lampard.

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only1keano
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Post by only1keano »

..I agree with amaidment...Gilberto was great!

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Burcop
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Post by Burcop »

amaidment wrote:
Burcop wrote:Flamini (Hleb)
Essien (Lampard)

Thought KC's looked clear cut but outside box ??
No KC for Lampard IMO - it was a backwards pass way outside the box and a wonder strike from Essien.

MOTM - Gilberto for me
Agreed that it was a backwards pass outside the area but Lampards contribution was key and deliberate - but probably not in telegraph terms else Essien would not have had the chance for a wonder goal. Even Jose just mentioned Lampards part.

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Post by anon6 »

Burcop wrote:
amaidment wrote:
Burcop wrote:Flamini (Hleb)
Essien (Lampard)

Thought KC's looked clear cut but outside box ??
No KC for Lampard IMO - it was a backwards pass way outside the box and a wonder strike from Essien.

MOTM - Gilberto for me
Agreed that it was a backwards pass outside the area but Lampards contribution was key and deliberate - but probably not in telegraph terms else Essien would not have had the chance for a wonder goal. Even Jose just mentioned Lampards part.
*THIS* is the Telegraph game :!:

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Post by Yer Old Da »

I think Gilberto is nailed on for MOTM. Miles better than anyone else on view.

Dan_C
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Post by Dan_C »

Gilberto gets my vote for MOTM

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Burcop
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Post by Burcop »

anon1086 wrote:
Burcop wrote:
amaidment wrote:
Burcop wrote:Flamini (Hleb)
Essien (Lampard)

Thought KC's looked clear cut but outside box ??
No KC for Lampard IMO - it was a backwards pass way outside the box and a wonder strike from Essien.

MOTM - Gilberto for me
Agreed that it was a backwards pass outside the area but Lampards contribution was key and deliberate - but probably not in telegraph terms else Essien would not have had the chance for a wonder goal. Even Jose just mentioned Lampards part.
*THIS* is the Telegraph game :!:
Could not understand why gerrard did not get KC two weeks ago for a kuyt goal, when he made a difference but telegraph deemed not, thus I feel that if it had not been for lampards pass essien would not have scored. it was discussed earlier that yesterday gerrard could get a kc after taking corner which agger headed on for carragher to score.
What then constitutes a Key Contribution !!

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Post by anon6 »

Burcop wrote:
Could not understand why gerrard did not get KC two weeks ago for a kuyt goal, when he made a difference but telegraph deemed not, thus I feel that if it had not been for lampards pass essien would not have scored. it was discussed earlier that yesterday gerrard could get a kc after taking corner which agger headed on for carragher to score.
What then constitutes a Key Contribution !!
There's a lot of threads which tell you how a KC is awarded. AND you can check the T&C on the TFF site.

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delgenius
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Post by delgenius »

i thought Adebayor was excellent up front on his own, especially 2nd half

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Burcop
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Post by Burcop »

anon1086 wrote:
Burcop wrote:
Could not understand why gerrard did not get KC two weeks ago for a kuyt goal, when he made a difference but telegraph deemed not, thus I feel that if it had not been for lampards pass essien would not have scored. it was discussed earlier that yesterday gerrard could get a kc after taking corner which agger headed on for carragher to score.
What then constitutes a Key Contribution !!
There's a lot of threads which tell you how a KC is awarded. AND you can check the T&C on the TFF site.
the telegraph itself states
Key Contribution (playing a significant part in setting up a goal)
so why doesnt lampards contribution qualify

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Raisin
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Post by Raisin »

Burcop, you have to understand the difference between a key contribution leading to a goal in football, and a Key Contribution under the rules and case law of the Telegraph game. Telegraph KCs are not usually awarded for short passes away from the goal which do not take out defenders and which lead to a shot well outside the area.

Every week we have someone on this thread getting upset because they do not understand this difference.

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thepole
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Post by thepole »

Burcop wrote:
anon1086 wrote:
Burcop wrote:
Could not understand why gerrard did not get KC two weeks ago for a kuyt goal, when he made a difference but telegraph deemed not, thus I feel that if it had not been for lampards pass essien would not have scored. it was discussed earlier that yesterday gerrard could get a kc after taking corner which agger headed on for carragher to score.
What then constitutes a Key Contribution !!
There's a lot of threads which tell you how a KC is awarded. AND you can check the T&C on the TFF site.
the telegraph itself states
Key Contribution (playing a significant part in setting up a goal)
so why doesnt lampards contribution qualify
Experience tells us that for a KC to be awarded a pass usually has to take out at least one defender and the goal usually from within 20 yards. Lamps pass took out no one and the goal was from 30 yards, so a KC probably won't be awarded.

We could have a debate about whether the way KCs are awarded is right, but there is no point. The telegraph are fairly consistent and it is the same for everyone, so you will just have to accept it, as we all do.

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itchy
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Post by itchy »

Gilberto was head and shoulders above everyone else on the pitch; cool,calm, collected, hardly ever gave the ball away, made some outstanding tackles and clearances.......

IMO, it will be a travesty if he doesn't get MoM.

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Burcop
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Post by Burcop »

thepole wrote:
Burcop wrote:
anon1086 wrote:
Burcop wrote:
Could not understand why gerrard did not get KC two weeks ago for a kuyt goal, when he made a difference but telegraph deemed not, thus I feel that if it had not been for lampards pass essien would not have scored. it was discussed earlier that yesterday gerrard could get a kc after taking corner which agger headed on for carragher to score.
What then constitutes a Key Contribution !!
There's a lot of threads which tell you how a KC is awarded. AND you can check the T&C on the TFF site.
the telegraph itself states
Key Contribution (playing a significant part in setting up a goal)
so why doesnt lampards contribution qualify
Experience tells us that for a KC to be awarded a pass usually has to take out at least one defender and the goal usually from within 20 yards. Lamps pass took out no one and the goal was from 30 yards, so a KC probably won't be awarded.

We could have a debate about whether the way KCs are awarded is right, but there is no point. The telegraph are fairly consistent and it is the same for everyone, so you will just have to accept it, as we all do.

Which is why at the start of my first post I questioned whether the assist would stand
"Thought KC's looked clear cut but outside box ?? "
and commented in a subsequent post
"Lampards contribution was key and deliberate - but probably not in telegraph terms "

I do accept that its the telegraphs game and their call counts, but as Judio
states at the start of each new topic
Please post your opinions only having Seen the Goals.
Probably like most of the readers of this forum we have superleagues at work and monday morning is rife with conversation of kc's and mom's

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Burcop
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Post by Burcop »

Raisin wrote:Burcop, you have to understand the difference between a key contribution leading to a goal in football, and a Key Contribution under the rules and case law of the Telegraph game. Telegraph KCs are not usually awarded for short passes away from the goal which do not take out defenders and which lead to a shot well outside the area.

Every week we have someone on this thread getting upset because they do not understand this difference.
Cheers for that, appreciate your answer

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Post by dilwar »

Well after watching MOTD 2 I would say..

Flamini (Hleb)

Essien (-)

Lampard's pass was a small back pass and took out no players, on top of that the shot was way outside of the box.

I'll wait for Bram but I am sure he will have a similar opinion

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