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tff the future/any future?

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tff the future/any future?

Post by 12345678 »

i've posted these elsewhere, but i think regular players might be interested in my thoughts as a long time player and previous winner of tff. when you complete your surveys think long and hard about your answers and the real impact of any changes. if not like tff trying to raise defenders scoring, you may find very unpleasant consequences including the game disappearing!

'not surprised to see sandor 1/2/3 in tff at half time, i told them this would happen in their survey and warned them they were turning short run games into a farce by having same defender points it becomes about large multi entry & revolving defences instead of goals & assists, would never have guessed sdt would have a better game than tff 6 years ago. that said it looks like sandor's entry is lower than usual and he is is a very good player and not given enough credit for that. seasonal i would expect to beat him most times but not in these short runs when i am concentrating on other things more. the one thing the papers absolutely hate which is the reason for limits per ID, is a dominated leaderboard. tff are a lazy inept bunch and have got exactly what they deserved! lol.'

'i almost didnt play and reduced my entry right down due to the rules and prioritising other things, wonder how many other did the same or packed up and played the sun instead? their recent adjustments and survey suggest they mistakenly think they can compete with sdt by making their game similar! completely crass, they can't/won't compete on prizemoney so need their game to be different and better especially when it is pay to play. making it worse or trying to mimic sdt is not the way forward and we have seen the first signs that they are thinking of packing up. all a bit sad to see them starting to wreck the game and now looking at further ways to wreck it further!'

my personal view on the game, comments in their survey suggest the game is under threat to me. sandor is a very underrated player. i still think he is odds against winning but my warnings to them in the survey are i think backed up by events. i'm just outside the top 100 but not really enjoying churning round defences and find the game boring as hell compared to sdt lol. still you have to be in it to win it, and i am just about in it having gotten very close to not playing ;)

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by itslikebrandnew »

I didn't chase clean sheets and have a team just outside the top 100. I must have made at least 10 poor choices with my transfers so with a little bit of luck i could have been challenging Sandor without rotating defenders.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by 12345678 »

ok you got 10 wrong (not necessarily your fault of course ;) ) so you vs sandor, you need to get 10 good choices right vs 2 block defences switches right by him.

not a personal comment, but i know which task i would rather have!

the excessive number of transfers and re-jigging of teams halfway is also boring as hell, i take my hat off to sandor i simply couldn't do what he does, i'd fall asleep part way through ;) lol

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by 12345678 »

itslikebrandnew wrote: 30 Jun 2018, 12:33 I didn't chase clean sheets and have a team just outside the top 100. I must have made at least 10 poor choices with my transfers so with a little bit of luck i could have been challenging Sandor without rotating defenders.
let's look at the maths vs a large multi entrant.

he has loads of teams so WILL hit two consecutive clean sheets, ignoring YC that is 10x7 - 70. conservatively i reckon he gets a goal and an assist from 2 games he has clean sheets in backing the favourite, so he hits 78.

you have 10 transfers now to match his 78, that is over a goal an appearance. even if you go ALL PREMIUM STRIKERS, which isnt easy i reckon you will struggle to hit more than 55, so you are 23 down.

if you don't believe me look at bram's stats.

if this happens twice in a short run comp you are almost 50 down vs a very good player.

still fancy your chances of making it up?

obviously defences can fail but with a big multi you simply don't care you are 50 points up with the ones you hit!

the ones he doesn't hit you will outscore him and if you play well being just outside of the top 100 is a good effort, but you can't touch defences, my final two missed badly or i would have been top 50 i guess.

hopefully that explains my comments a bit more.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by itslikebrandnew »

the point is if i'd have done as many entries as he did and just did the odd thing differently then i too could have got it right......as could anyone.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by itslikebrandnew »

i dont like the way he plays as there is no skill in it. it's just covering permutations. perhaps tff should only allow a max of 3 players per team or something.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by 12345678 »

i disagree, sandor is an extremely skilled and underrated player, look at his finishing position in season long comps, you simply can't achieve that with a scattergun approach.

obviously the short run comps play into his hands as you don't have to hit as many clean sheets, nor are you stuck with that defence, nor are transfers running out any time soon.

if you try hitting 4 consecutive clean sheets in the group stages at say even money on average your chances are 15/1 which is easily achievable with a large multi.

try doing this with 20 different strikers and tell me what the odds are ;) i'm not even going there but if you get a football team of mates together you will run out of fingers very fast trying to count the odds against lol.

if you do the same thing modelling it over 100x your scores will be on average higher than sandor's because he will miss too often but he will almost certainly be holding the top 6 places out of your 200 modelled attempts with a very healthy lead!

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by 12345678 »

itslikebrandnew wrote: 30 Jun 2018, 13:04 i dont like the way he plays as there is no skill in it. it's just covering permutations. perhaps tff should only allow a max of 3 players per team or something.
i can assure you he is very skilled, as i said above just look at his seasonal results.

i hate playing it that way too, but to have any chance in short run comps you have to these days with current rulles and scoring look at capt pugwash thread, the regular players are fully aware of the issues.

you can't blame sandor for trying to win, but you can blame tff for having a cr@p game design!

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by itslikebrandnew »

He's hard working and disciplined but he's got very little skill. In the season long comps he still goes down the block defence route and covers permutations of it.

I'd like to know how many teams he does.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by edmo33 »

So would lowering the clean sheet points be the way to go, ilo restricting number of players per team??


I do agree that the block defence changes are tiresome, with only a few teams most are unlikely to go all in... And risk an end to their interest in these short term formats.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by 12345678 »

hi edmo,

the risk is daft game design by tff killing the game, i really hope those running it read this thread as their jobs are getting ever closer to being on the line.

yes reducing defensive points in short run games would be a massive improvement as would less transfers.

players per team is a pain to monitor and can be painful if you get an injury, i wouldn't be in favour of it but can see it does have some merit.
Last edited by 12345678 on 30 Jun 2018, 13:29, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by gio »

12345678 wrote: 30 Jun 2018, 10:40 i've posted these elsewhere, but i think regular players might be interested in my thoughts as a long time player and previous winner of tff. when you complete your surveys think long and hard about your answers and the real impact of any changes. if not like tff trying to raise defenders scoring, you may find very unpleasant consequences including the game disappearing!

'not surprised to see sandor 1/2/3 in tff at half time, i told them this would happen in their survey and warned them they were turning short run games into a farce by having same defender points it becomes about large multi entry & revolving defences instead of goals & assists, would never have guessed sdt would have a better game than tff 6 years ago. that said it looks like sandor's entry is lower than usual and he is is a very good player and not given enough credit for that. seasonal i would expect to beat him most times but not in these short runs when i am concentrating on other things more. the one thing the papers absolutely hate which is the reason for limits per ID, is a dominated leaderboard. tff are a lazy inept bunch and have got exactly what they deserved! lol.'

'i almost didnt play and reduced my entry right down due to the rules and prioritising other things, wonder how many other did the same or packed up and played the sun instead? their recent adjustments and survey suggest they mistakenly think they can compete with sdt by making their game similar! completely crass, they can't/won't compete on prizemoney so need their game to be different and better especially when it is pay to play. making it worse or trying to mimic sdt is not the way forward and we have seen the first signs that they are thinking of packing up. all a bit sad to see them starting to wreck the game and now looking at further ways to wreck it further!'

my personal view on the game, comments in their survey suggest the game is under threat to me. sandor is a very underrated player. i still think he is odds against winning but my warnings to them in the survey are i think backed up by events. i'm just outside the top 100 but not really enjoying churning round defences and find the game boring as hell compared to sdt lol. still you have to be in it to win it, and i am just about in it having gotten very close to not playing ;)
Very much agree with your worry here and I had the same feelings when completing the TFF survey, even though I come from a very different history, this is my first year in TFF, having played FPL for a few years before. I've really enjoyed the premier league game, thanks to its different approach to other games. The 40 transfer could already be reduced in my opinion. But anyway, clearly telegraph are looking at getting more entries by targeting/copying the other more followed fantasy games. However as you said, if they copy, most likely they will be a bad copy and the situation of multi-entrants is really not fun for the 'normal' players.

In the world cup game, with the stupid amount of transfers allowed, and with Sandor's 3 teams on top shows how so far it has been more about entering hundred teams than skill. Then as you say, he is the one coming on top because he must know his stuff.

anyway, hopefully the telegraph takes our feedback into consideration to create a more balanced game for the majority rather than a game for the few mulientrant players

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by robot »

itslikebrandnew wrote: 30 Jun 2018, 13:02 the point is if i'd have done as many entries as he did and just did the odd thing differently then i too could have got it right......as could anyone.
This world cup has favoured the striker as much as possible with 2 hatricks and a few doubles and the clean sheet backers are still ahead as the many two pointers still even things out in favour of blocks as 12345678 says, and others have previously said

I play the game and go along with block strategy because its the only way of winning big but agree a change is needed, less points for a clean sheet may be the way to go.

If you went back now and picked a realistic team with mostly outfield changes you would still struggle to get to 364.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by edmo33 »

The excessive amount of transfers is also an issue. Someone new to tff would look at the leaderboard after a month and give in, not realising players have spunked their load chasing a monthly. With the 40 transfers these teams hang around too long for my liking. With 20 transfers, we might see these tail off pre-Christmas helping the tortoises to assess their position more accurately...

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by 12345678 »

unsurprisingly robot has it about right.

tbh if then want a game like sdt they will have one that you have to pay for instead of one that is free and one with way less prizemoney.

now if you play ff which one would you choose?

they should get back to their own previously succesful brand and think changes through and model them properly or this game is only going toward extinction!

at present watching gfm run tff is a bit like watching miley's 'wrecking ball' video, just not as entertaining ;)

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by 12345678 »

someone from gfm needs to get a grip before it is too late!

by the way is this ian from gfm?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6DmHGYy_xk

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by itslikebrandnew »

robot wrote: 30 Jun 2018, 13:35
itslikebrandnew wrote: 30 Jun 2018, 13:02 the point is if i'd have done as many entries as he did and just did the odd thing differently then i too could have got it right......as could anyone.
This world cup has favoured the striker as much as possible with 2 hatricks and a few doubles and the clean sheet backers are still ahead as the many two pointers still even things out in favour of blocks as 12345678 says, and others have previously said

I play the game and go along with block strategy because its the only way of winning big but agree a change is needed, less points for a clean sheet may be the way to go.

If you went back now and picked a realistic team with mostly outfield changes you would still struggle to get to 364.
I got over 300 and made some really poor decisions and ran out of transfers and should have had at least another 4 goalscorers but couldn't put them in as i was running short of transfers.....and that's just my obvious mistakes.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by Fergi222 »

Ive played TFF for a long time and it has always been my favourite game, but as much as I hate to say it, I think Sky Sports has now overtaken it. They seem to have the balance right of rewarding a well-balanced team. I played TFF World Cup and wish I hadn't as I am finding it very boring particularly in comparison to SDT who have a great game this time around. I wouldn't change the seasonal TFF too much (if at all) but the tournament version needs a rethink. Hoping a team doesn't concede time and again is not how I like to watch matches.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by hancockjr »

12345678 wrote: 30 Jun 2018, 13:26

players per team is a pain to monitor and can be painful if you get an injury, i wouldn't be in favour of it but can see it does have some merit.
It only needs to be a restriction on defenders from same team - say max 3 inc keeper. Can’t see that being a pain for anyone.

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tff the future/any future?

Post by Maldini »

But then we’d all just swap semi blocks in the exact same manner. Would solve nothing.

15 transfers for the whole tournament and then if you want to swap your block, you’re wasting a big chunk of your transfers. Risk/reward nearer where it should be.

46 plus the amnesty is ridiculous.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by robot »

itslikebrandnew wrote: 30 Jun 2018, 14:37

I got over 300 and made some really poor decisions and ran out of transfers and should have had at least another 4 goalscorers but couldn't put them in as i was running short of transfers.....and that's just my obvious mistakes.
Thats the point were trying to make, even if you had got those 4 decisions correct you'd still be behind sandor.

No one is going to make 26 perfect outfield calls obvious or not.

Sandor would off made a few errors and still got 364.

Even with all the multi block players, i dont think anyone played it near perfect due to the unexpected results and near 400 was possibly achievable with the right sequence and catching/combining with the big goal scorers.

This group stage actually balanced slightly back in favour off not having blocks.

"If" as usual the hatrick/ braces were not there and the big teams had more clean sheets round 1/2, the gap would have been even wider.

Sandor has scored 6.17 (364/59) points ave per player appearence not accounting for players not starting game 3, ( although looks like he went :arrow: colombia and avoided that issue).your just not going to get that with striker changes.
The leader of the golden boot has 31 (217) his other players would of needed 147 to catch sandor.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by itslikebrandnew »

robot wrote: 30 Jun 2018, 15:30
itslikebrandnew wrote: 30 Jun 2018, 14:37

I got over 300 and made some really poor decisions and ran out of transfers and should have had at least another 4 goalscorers but couldn't put them in as i was running short of transfers.....and that's just my obvious mistakes.
Thats the point were trying to make, even if you had got those 4 decisions correct you'd still be behind sandor.

No one is going to make 26 perfect outfield calls obvious or not.

Sandor would off made a few errors and still got 364.

Even with all the multi block players, i dont think anyone played it near perfect due to the unexpected results and near 400 was possibly achievable with the right sequence and catching/combining with the big goal scorers.

This group stage actually balanced slightly back in favour off not having blocks.

"If" as usual the hatrick/ braces were not there and the big teams had more clean sheets round 1/2, the gap would have been even wider.

Sandor has scored 6.17 (364/59) points ave per player appearence not accounting for players not starting game 3, ( although looks like he went :arrow: colombia and avoided that issue).your just not going to get that with striker changes.
The leader of the golden boot has 31 (217) his other players would of needed 147 to catch sandor.
And if Morocco hadn't of put one through their own net after 95 mins in their first game i'd have had another 15 points. So i'm still saying with a bit of luck and a bit more skill i could have been ahead of him. There's probably another couple of things i could single out as bad luck or bad play on my part. If i can get close to him not playing blocks then other players better than me can do it.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by Maldini »

If my auntie had a pair of bollocks she’d be my uncle.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by robot »

Itslikebrandnew, i think we might have to agree to disagree and move on.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by 12345678 »

it changes a bit in the knock outs with the odds for clean sheets generally lower with less weak teams left. additionally 0-0 becomes unlikely with ET & ET as a possibility helps the attacking players e.g from 1-1 & 2-2, the trouble is that as robot says the damage is done by then!

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by Matt70 »

Looking at the scores it seems to be more than clean sheets. Possible that top scorers went for Sweden Block against Mexico and dropped in lucky with Granqvist/ Augustinsson goals on top of clean sheet points.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by Merlins_Apprentice »

all sounds abit like sour grapes to me I'm afraid.....tiresome reading these kind of threads now.....everyone knows the rules, if you don't like it don't play any more (like you keep threatening to do but always end up playing :) )

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by Giggs11 »

Merlins_Apprentice wrote: 30 Jun 2018, 17:32 all sounds abit like sour grapes to me I'm afraid.....tiresome reading these kind of threads now.....everyone knows the rules, if you don't like it don't play any more (like you keep threatening to do but always end up playing :) )

Spot on Merlin.
Sandor has got 7 teams in the top 100 which is hardly world domination.
There are a number of other managers who have two or more in the top 100.
All of the above have paid there money and are taking their chances.

It's not like the OP hasn't entered shedloads of teams in the past.

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by robot »

Matt70 wrote: 30 Jun 2018, 17:29 Looking at the scores it seems to be more than clean sheets. Possible that top scorers went for Sweden Block against Mexico and dropped in lucky with Granqvist/ Augustinsson goals on top of clean sheet points.
But with thousands off block sequences played someone will always fall in lucky with defender goals as well.

Sandor clearly played a different route to the pack as he didn't have any teams on show early doors ( which is unusual for him) then sweden/ colombia come along and he's suddenly top.

I personally have no problem either way and will just play the game/ rules but wouldn't complain either if they changed defender rules.

One thing that is working is entry numbers ( double 4 years ago) so not sure they will want change?

Having a knockout prize instead of group is also helping their cause, how many more people are still clicking away and using the site that would otherwise have dissapeared.

Merlin can you still do your magic on entry details, ie are more playing or are there just more players playing the multi game.

( not moaning just interested in how many players are doing)

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Re: tff the future/any future?

Post by Darbyand »

I can't have been paying full attention on the survey, what's the proposal for more defender points? I saw something about defensive midfielders getting the benefits of clean sheets.

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