The poker forum is buzzing today!
Driving home yesterday I was pleasantly surprised to hear a headline on the news about a top poker player giving evidence against a London casino for unpaid millions.
Having been out of the poker loop for sometime I had no idea what it was about.
It turned out to be Phil Ivey, who had won money playing Baccarat but was using some 'edge sorting' technique so the casino refused to pay.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29476942
I read somewhere he was asking the dealer to rotate good cards (7, 8 and 9s?) through 190 degrees before they were then dealt which meant he could sometimes predict the next card?
Gotta love Phil
Phil Ivey court case
- Karrde
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Re: Phil Ivey court case
Surely if a card is imperfect then its up to the dealer and floor manager to remove it. If Manchester G Casino can do it as often as ive seen, then someone on a millionaires table should be alert enough! Pay the man and run a better house in future!
- Mike_
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Re: Phil Ivey court case
Phil's lost
- Archy
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Re: Phil Ivey court case
Having read about this, it seems that Ivey, one of the most skilled poker players in the world, basically scammed a casino in a game of chance by getting his mate to read imperfections in the card designs.
I would expect a bit more class from a renowned poker champ personally and think it's right that he lost the court case.
I would expect a bit more class from a renowned poker champ personally and think it's right that he lost the court case.
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Re: Phil Ivey court case
So if the casinos case hinged on that, is the reverse also true and they have set a precedent for any losing edge sorters to get their stake back...?Ivey’s conduct defeated the essential premise of the game of baccarat so there was no gaming contract
- WilBert
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Re: Phil Ivey court case
Does this go wd
Seriously though are we expected to believe that the Casino's Croupiers don't know about these flaws and exploit them?
Would he have got away with asking for them to be rotated 180 degreesHotpot wrote:I read somewhere he was asking the dealer to rotate good cards (7, 8 and 9s?) through 190 degrees before they were then dealt which meant he could sometimes predict the next card?
Seriously though are we expected to believe that the Casino's Croupiers don't know about these flaws and exploit them?
- Dennisthemenace
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Re: Phil Ivey court case
Surely it's up to the house to ensure:
a/ There are no imperfections in the cards
b/ The croupiers know the maximum degree they can turn the cards to
I can't see how he can be wrong here and his very expensive legal people must have been rubbish.
a/ There are no imperfections in the cards
b/ The croupiers know the maximum degree they can turn the cards to
I can't see how he can be wrong here and his very expensive legal people must have been rubbish.
- Hotpot
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Re: Phil Ivey court case
The way I read it was that by turning the cards through 190 degrees, before then straightening the deck, the cards that had been turned when sitting on top of the deck would look slightly different to the cards that hadn't been turned, in relation to the card underneath.WilBert wrote:Does this go wdWould he have got away with asking for them to be rotated 180 degreesHotpot wrote:I read somewhere he was asking the dealer to rotate good cards (7, 8 and 9s?) through 190 degrees before they were then dealt which meant he could sometimes predict the next card?
Seriously though are we expected to believe that the Casino's Croupiers don't know about these flaws and exploit them?
I assume this is what was happening. The imperfections where nothing to do with the card design, it was how the cards sat on the deck in relation to other cards.
My view is Phil pushed his luck, but the casino staff should have put a stop to it at the time.
Poor Phil
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