Another one bites the dust (HMV)

[bluenosey]

I want to read Great Expectations: Do I go to Waterstones, hope its in stock and pay £5.99 for a (good) paperback.

Can't even do that with my vouchers. They stopped accepting vouchers last night. Told to try again in a few weeks.

There's a note on the Leamington branch which unfortunately says they will no longer accept vouchers.

I'm torn here. Yes, I remember paying 12.99 or 13.99 for CD's at the tail end of the 80s and yes, HMV drove the likes of "Our Price" out of exisistence. Still, I love trawling through records or CDs. I could lose myself for an hour just browsing through the records. Now that no longer exists. Or perhaps it's just an age thing. I'm not a luddite and use i-tunes etc but it's not the same for me.

Interestingly, under the HMV shop in Leamington is an independent called Head records which seems to be doing well. It even has a vinyl section at the back of the shop. Although vinyl is the new CD. With no presses the cost of new vinyl is not exactly cheap.

[Latic]

So long HMV.

DVDRIP.

[Moist von Lipwig]

a liitle 'all knowing' but interesting nontheless.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... d-hmv-fail" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Achiles74]

Waterstones must be the next to go, you can look at the prices in waterstones and find the same book for cheaper at Asda/Tesco/ hell even WH Smiths.

[murf]

Comet, Jessops, HMV, Waterstones(?)......

It's getting bad, I'm running out of places to browse stuff that I'm going to buy from the internet

[Tacalabala]

I'm surprised people are suggesting this signals the decline of CD. For me, having the physical media in your hands allows you to fully appreciate the artistic vision of the act - the cover art.

[moonlightdribbler]

[moonlightdribbler]

I'm surprised people are suggesting this signals the decline of CD. For me, having the physical media in your hands allows you to fully appreciate the artistic vision of the act - the cover art.

I still buy CDs, but they're already in decline and have been for years. Sales of vinyl continue to increase however...

[Knulpuk]

So HMV refusing to take gift vouches so soon after christmas and thereby eradicating any remaining goodwill left in the brand - shocking decision.

[Richt]

So HMV refusing to take gift vouches so soon after christmas and thereby eradicating any remaining goodwill left in the brand - shocking decision.

Did you expect anything different from them though? Always have been greedy and only interested in money.

[Mike_]

Interesting read from yesterday....

"Not long after HMV’s stock market listing, Beechwood, (the agency I founded and ran with my business partner, John Wood) was asked to re-pitch for the business as a new marketing director and managing director had come in to the company and they felt other agencies should cast fresh eyes on the business. As I had worked on the account for so long and felt it was in my blood, I really wanted to give it my all, so we pulled out all the stops in this five-way pitch. The day of the presentation came and we stood in the boardroom in front of the new MD, Steve Knott and his directors. For some time we had felt the tides of change coming for HMV and here was our perfect opportunity to unambiguously say what we felt. The relevant chart went up and I said, “The three greatest threats to HMV are, online retailers, downloadable music and supermarkets discounting loss leader product”. Suddenly I realised the MD had stopped the meeting and was visibly angry. “I have never heard such rubbish”, he said, “I accept that supermarkets are a thorn in our side but not for the serious music, games or film buyer and as for the other two, I don’t ever see them being a real threat, downloadable music is just a fad and people will always want the atmosphere and experience of a music store rather than online shopping”.

[murf]

people will always want the atmosphere and experience of a music store

Yep, I used to love that - until all the decent music stores died after being killed by soulless megastores like HMV.

[Knulpuk]

So HMV refusing to take gift vouches so soon after christmas and thereby eradicating any remaining goodwill left in the brand - shocking decision.

Did you expect anything different from them though? Always have been greedy and only interested in money.

Yes I did really - Delloits as adminsitrators allowed Jessops vouchers to be honoured in the admin - I suspect the amount is just too great here - of course I might have a different view if I was one of the creditors standing in line - but seems a bit harsh.

How long before someone goes in stores takes a DVD and leaves the gift card on the voucher - be interesting to see the police's response and would the administrator deem it good use to sue the customer for the cash? There would certainly be a defence against stealing!

[Pincher]

I heard Jessops weren't honouring vouchers initially. If that was the case, and subsequently changed, then perhaps HMV will honour them at some point in the future. Though if there aren't any stores open, I don't know how they could be cashed. However, if they were bought on a credit card then they should be protected I reckon - though I am no expert.

Regarding Amazon and tax avoidance - while it does appear to be morally, if not legally wrong of course, I guess the extra money those of who have shopped there keep in our pockets since they are lower in price helps make up for what we may have lost in our share of the taxes - more than compensates in many cases I imagine. However, it would still be unfair to people in the UK who never buy from Amazon.

[unc.si.]

Well of course they don't have to honour gift vouchers, but administrators will make a decision as to the cost of doing so vs the impact that will have on a potential sale. If they don't believe it can be sold, they won't sanction honouring the vouchers.

If they do find a buyer for the brand (ie someone that wants to continue to trade as HMV), then that buyer will almost certainly have to honour the vouchers to restore goodwill. That would be factored into the price that someone will be willing to pay for the physical assets and goodwill, although if that ends up being lower than D&T could get for the stock in a firesale then it won't be in the interests of the creditors and the deal won't happen.

I suspect that they also don't actually yet know the extent of the potential gift voucher liability. Vouchers are sold by third parties as well as in stores and on-line and it may take them a while to get it all reconciled. They may review the decision after they know the full liability and have a feel for whether there are any sensible buyers out there.

Generally not worth touching vouchers in the current climate (although you can't always stop people buying you them for presents - I got some waterstones vouchers for Christmas but I spent them straight away). I suspect that HMV buy Christmas stock on extended trade terms. After Christmas, there's hardly any cash coming in but they then have to pay their trade creditors, which are higher than normal due to extended credit. If they didn't have a good Christmas, then funders will pull the plug then, as their position will only worsen over the next few months. Generally a pretty risky time with regard to business failure.

[murf]

....and another one's gone, and another one's gone, Blockbusters bites the dust.

[foxinthebox2001]

This is getting insane, I am going to use up my Rumbelows gift vouchers this weekend.

[Pincher]

Always hated blockbusters myself - luckily I had an excellent independent video store locally that was 1/4 distance to the nearest blockbusters and generally half the price. Amazing they have survived as long as they did IMHO - as a film lover they rarely stocked anything I would have wanted to see anyway! Apparently they are still honouring gift vouchers...

[DrBunker]

Blimey. I wouldn't have thought that Netflix et al were at a point where they were a fatal threat to this chain but then I only hired their movies when they had a deal on and the rest came via on demand.

[Richt]

Always hated blockbusters myself - luckily I had an excellent independent video store locally that was 1/4 distance to the nearest blockbusters and generally half the price. Amazing they have survived as long as they did IMHO - as a film lover they rarely stocked anything I would have wanted to see anyway! Apparently they are still honouring gift vouchers...

In my experience most of their hire dvds are scratched to eff and freeze constantly. That's why we dont use them anymore. Love Film all the way....

[DrBunker]

Always hated blockbusters myself - luckily I had an excellent independent video store locally that was 1/4 distance to the nearest blockbusters and generally half the price. Amazing they have survived as long as they did IMHO - as a film lover they rarely stocked anything I would have wanted to see anyway! Apparently they are still honouring gift vouchers...

My second thought on this was whether this might see a rise in the local, indie DVD video store, as is hoped with record store with HMV possibly going under. It might be nice to be able to go somewhere and talk to a passionate film fan when looking for recommendations.

[Moist von Lipwig]

I've never really had an issue with blockbusters, yes a bit pricey but when you're only renting sporadically that didn't really matter. Especially after a couple of months when something wasn't new it dropped to a quid. My local one shut down in sept and they gave me 10 free rentals at the next nearest one 2 miles further away. Never used it since I finished that offer and don't think I'll really miss it.

suppose it'll be lovefilm now.

[DrBunker]

suppose it'll be lovefilm now.

I know there's no point me using them (unless you can do so on a sporadic basis) as whenever I've received a deal for 5 or 10 movies after the first few I've run out of those I want. I'm happy with using Virgin's on demand service if there's on I fancy.

[Moist von Lipwig]

suppose it'll be lovefilm now.

I know there's no point me using them (unless you can do so on a sporadic basis) as whenever I've received a deal for 5 or 10 movies after the first few I've run out of those I want. I'm happy with using Virgin's on demand service if there's on I fancy.

I've got a list of currently <goes to count> 34 films to catch up on dvd that I've missed seeing since we had children. Its just even getting the time watch them on dvd now. If lovefilms not worth a couple of dvds a month I probably won't bother.

[Dixon]

....and another one's gone, and another one's gone, Blockbusters bites the dust.

"I'll have an A please murf."

[gazwood]

I want to read Great Expectations: Do I go to Waterstones, hope its in stock and pay £5.99 for a (good) paperback.

Can't even do that with my vouchers. They stopped accepting vouchers last night. Told to try again in a few weeks.

How much in vouchers do you have?

If for example you have £20, go into your local HMV, select £20 worth of goods (nothing more), provide the voucher to the cashier, they'll refuse it, you refuse to return the goods. No criminal offences, civil dispute only for which they'd have to take you to court for which obviously isn't going to happen. Job done.

[DrBunker]

suppose it'll be lovefilm now.

I know there's no point me using them (unless you can do so on a sporadic basis) as whenever I've received a deal for 5 or 10 movies after the first few I've run out of those I want. I'm happy with using Virgin's on demand service if there's on I fancy.

I've got a list of currently <goes to count> 34 films to catch up on dvd that I've missed seeing since we had children. Its just even getting the time watch them on dvd now. If lovefilms not worth a couple of dvds a month I probably won't bother.

At one time I did keep a list of all of the films I liked the look of but lost it a few years ago much to my annoyance. Like you I missed out on going to the cinema for years and in 2012 I think I saw more films than I had in the preceding 10. There must be loads that I'd/we'd want to watch and I guess if their recommendation algorithm is up to scratch it could be a revelation...

[unc.si.]

You can't return the goods as you've not bought them. No contract in place. You've offered to buy them and they've refused your offer. The CD's are their property and if you take them its theft.

Under contract law they don't have to accept your offer (even if it's cash) and no contract is formed. Well documented case law to say that them displaying goods is simply an invitation to treat, not an offer of contract which you can accept. It's for you to make the offer and the shop to accept.

No different from picking up a TV, offering the shop 50p for it and refusing to give it back to them when they say no.

[foxinthebox2001]

I want to read Great Expectations: Do I go to Waterstones, hope its in stock and pay £5.99 for a (good) paperback.

Can't even do that with my vouchers. They stopped accepting vouchers last night. Told to try again in a few weeks.

How much in vouchers do you have?

If for example you have £20, go into your local HMV, select £20 worth of goods (nothing more), provide the voucher to the cashier, they'll refuse it, you refuse to return the goods. No criminal offences at least not until you step outside the shop premises with the unpaid for goods in your possession, civil dispute only for which they'd have to take you to court for which obviously isn't going to happen. Job done.

[Knulpuk]

Even then they may not guilty of a criminal office.

A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.

If he genuinely believes he is acting honestly he might get away with it - though the goods would have to be returned.

Be suprised if it got that far.

Wonder if the gift card could be caught under the "fit for purpose" rules of the consumer credit act?